Every healer should play a level 15-20 glad tank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by necrosis

And tanks need to play a healing job. To many times the tank pulls a group of mobs and I land ONE cure... every mob but the one the tank is currently attacking come.

---

This is most likely orange or "unclaimed" mobs. Any healer that experienced natalan wolf camp is quite familiar with this. All the tank needs to do is pop any skill, doesn't even need to be a enmity skill to claim the links and the healer should be safe. But if any mobs are orange and not red, the are coming for you, healers.

When mobs link it happens after the initial agroing action so effectively it's as if nobody has done any action and therefore they remain unclaimed. The first person to use a skill at this point will get claim and thus also get the agro. This is a simple base fact, on top of that, enmity generation then comes into play. If a BRD pops raging strikes he will get claim and agro, but it does not generate as much hate as a cure, so the healer will quickly strip them off.

A lot of the time when tanks complain that people are attacking before they have hate on all the mobs it's simply a buff action the DD have used that takes the initial claim which then causes their flash to miss and all hell to break lose.

Back when we were doing 12 mob pulls in 1.0 at Natalan my tank's rotation was to run around, gather all the links then use something stupid like Featherfoot, Sentinel or any useless skill to turn them all red on him. Then I could regen and by the time he needed a cure he had more than enough hate. Which is another thing that should be mentioned, a healer cannot regen you until you have hate either. Tanks should keep an eye out for a lingering regen before pulling a large pack.

Can't say I really ever had this problem when I leveled my gladiator to 22 for provoke on my warrior. I found I could hold hate just fine with nothing but flash and savage blade. And you can use the riot blade combo to restore mp so you can keep spamming flash. As a tank though I mark my targets, and I tab target. Unless one of the mobs is asleep I switch targets and put down a savage blade on everything I've pulled in rotation focussing the marked target for primary enimity.

Tanks drop in a couple seconds at those levels. They are spamming cure for a reason, especially at Satasha.

Now after having a bad experience I've learned it's better to leave the dungeon if tank consistantly cannot hold threat. You'll just be suffering for 90 minutes by staying...and possibly fail the dungeon. Not worth the time. Make sure you can hold threat before doing dungeons.

One more thing...sleep! Stop breaking it. So annoying when you sleep the mob and tank keeps hitting them after.

Can't say I had the problem of dieing easily either, especially in satasha, easiest dungeon EVER. If tanks can't hold threat and are dieing easily in satasha sounds like they are trying to tank in their race gear to me... Go buy some bronze armor from an npc merchant (it's level 15 and got me past all 3 starter dungeons).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

OMG, I just hit lvl40 yesterday, and Shield Oath finally makes me feel like a real tank. -20% incoming damage, big boost in all aggro, and who cares about -20% dps. Agree on the impossibility of tanking in this game with dps pulling or healers setting up heals at the pull. Other games with a forced taunt makes this still a bad idea but often survivable, but not here. One comment. Shield lob yes for the pull, but not provoke, as it's a threat copy not an outright threat skill (as I understand it) and ideally no one else in your group has threat at the time of the pull.

---

Provoke just for the added range, it's 10y longer than shield lob. So I use it at times just to pull patrols out of groups, then lob.

Really this applies to almost any role. Tanks should try being healers through at least the first few dungeons. DD should try both. This is just a matter of basic competency. Some players are skilled or experienced enough not to NEED to do this to be good at their jobs, but many people need all the help and experience they can get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bulwyf

I was playing my mara in Haukee with my wife on her arc yesterday and we had this problem. The healer and bard in group would run ahead of me (the tank) start attacking mobs and then would curse at me in party chat for being a "f'ing bad tank" when I could not magically get 3 or 4 mobs off them as soon as they started getting hit.

My wife and I asked them several times to let me go in front and mark targets and for the white mage to sleep targets. The WHM flat out refused to sleep adds and insisted on a "fast run". We somehow managed to clear the dungeon despite these idiots. At the end the WHM and bard both cursed me out pretty badly for being a bad tank when they in fact were the ones that acted like morons.

I agree with the OP so much. You don't just need to play a GLD, try a marauder and warrior without flash or damage mitigation and tank in a dungeon with those kind of morons to appreciate what we have to deal with.

---

Should have let the Brd die.

Over aggressive dps (the ones that try and pull) get a 3 strike policy with me. 1st pull, I explain why not to do that. 2nd pull, I inform them that the next time I will just watch them die. 3rd pull, they get met with a swift /laugh when they hit the floor.

That only really happens in lower leveled dungeons, as by the time people are 50 they cut that out. Well besides accidental pet pulls after

Demon Wall

in AK lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kraggy

Kind of ironic in view of the complaints I've seen moaning about CNJ NOT using Medica.

Face it, the healing skills in this game simply INVITE over-healing .../snip

---

What you're not realizing is that the reason that it's so fast is due to tanks who 1) have gear that's not up to par and (more importantly) 2) no cross-class abilities. Tanks who have no extra defensive cooldowns should be keelhauled and autobooted from dungeons. It's due to that inability to throw on extra defensive cooldowns that those newblet tanks die so fast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tolmos

In all of my time MMOing, the most difficulty I ever had tanking was this game's level 15-20 gladiator tanking. New players in the group go mad with dps and heals, generating more enmity than I can put out. And of course, my own enmity is total crap without the blind on flash. It got INFINITELY better after level 20, but up to that point? Brutal.

My main in this game is a healer- scholar to be exact, and I cannot express how much better of a healer I am because of that small amount of time tanking. I always knew that overhealing generated enmity, but I had no clue how much until I experienced the frustration of tanking with a conj who Medica spammed.

The first time you realize that, as a tank, you simply cannot generate as much enmity as an overhealing healer, you realize just how important it is to heal properly and not just throw heals out at random and them blame the tank when you get aggro.

---

I don't really need to play a tank to figure this out, because I have eyeballs, a working brain (I think...), and noticed the threat meter the first time I used Medica.

It's a running joke with my friends that they should just give Medica to tanks, because it works better than Flash to get threat! :D

P.S. You couldn't pay me to play a tank. That is the worst job, bar none.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Findel

In my experience, there's no need AT ALL to use the AoE heals unless the entire party has taken a considerable amount of damage. And then, I'll use 1 MAYBE 2 to get past the "OH S**T WE'RE GONNA DIE" part and then resume individual heals to each party member to top them off.

---

I'm glad you said this. The person who mentioned spamming Medica as being cheaper/easier confused me. To me it's always been about mana management. Spamming Medica or Cure 2 is a great way to ensure I'll be OOM. Sure, sometimes I need to use Cure 2 if the target is having their health drop too fast for my Regen + Cure 1 to handle it safely, but otherwise I've had no issues. There are a couple of boss fights where Medica is needed, but again I only end up using it once or twice.

The only issues I've had so far with tanks are (1) the one's don't seem to be aware I'm getting attacked by a mob; and (2) the one's who for some reason just have their health drop at a ridiculous rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

I don't really need to play a tank to figure this out, because I have eyeballs, a working brain (I think...), and noticed the threat meter the first time I used Medica.

It's a running joke with my friends that they should just give Medica to tanks, because it works better than Flash to get threat! :D

P.S. You couldn't pay me to play a tank. That is the worst job, bar none.

---

+1 if I had played tank during the beta I'd never have started it, tanking sucks in this game imo (I've done a lot of tanking in other games, Rift most of all). It's just not enjoyable in this game atm and often a lesson in frustration. I don't mind the bosses, but trash is just a chore...give me a cleave SE!

Also I'm sure a lot of dps/healers don't even know what the threat meter is...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omagana

Provoke just for the added range, it's 10y longer than shield lob. So I use it at times just to pull patrols out of groups, then lob.

---

Ahhhhh, I see. I tend to preciously guard the provoke cool down, but can see its utility for pulling in special circumstances.

I think I partly disagree with the premise here. Many people playing this game aren't familiar with the way the party roles work. And up until level 15 they have been largely on their own. Then suddenly they are dropped in with a group of other people who may or may not be in the same boat. Result? Everybody is figuring out their role at the same time. Playing another role can help some people, but ultimately the problem would remain. A large percentage would be learning their role for the first time. It took me until level 25 before I could keep track of the health, and the AOE, and the aggro at the same time, forget just doing my job right: I am still not very good at it (probably never will be that great either). I think people should stick to one primary role until level 25, through halatali, and the two level 25 gh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tolmos

Every tank should learn to play a tank

---

Corrected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldreactive

I was able to hold aggro against a medica spamming healer (Since they couldn't "Click" on me to target me, and they were upset due to my small size.) It was glorious. (Tam Tara)

Being a lalafell tank helps me find healers who use the HUD.

---

Man that must have been one really bad healer if they couldn't hit the Function keys (FN) or click on your your name in the party window (PC) or set it on on the PS3 to tab through players

According to everyone, everyone should play everyones class so everyone can be in the shoes of everyone whos anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phantasmid

I wish PLD could equip Medica... or as I like to call it, Flash II.

---

HAhah your going to hate me for this but after I made Pally, I lost the group of mobs to a good but over healing healer. As she ran them around in a circle. I used Cure 1 on her. :) They ALL came at me.. I have found my best enmity tool!

For some reason whenever a healer pulls threat they do an aoe heal which adds more hate to them, makes no sense

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyouko

For some reason whenever a healer pulls threat they do an aoe heal which adds more hate to them, makes no sense

---

I try to avoid this, but my expectation is because they now have to heal themselves AND everyone else at the same time. Not overhealing helps a ton as a WHM to avoid aggro, but honestly a tank that can't hold aggro makes it impossible for me to heal. I get aggro and so does everyone but my job doesn't change:Keep the team alive. Only so much a healer can do to drop aggro. It's the tank's job to do everything else. DPS can just stop DPS so it's easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhas

Man that must have been one really bad healer if they couldn't hit the Function keys (FN) or click on your your name in the party window (PC) or set it on on the PS3 to tab through players

---

On the PS3 I sometimes can't cycle through their names fast enough to heal the team when they all sustain too much damage. Not like I like spamming Medica since it puts a nice damper on my MP but its either that or everyone dies...which means I die. I know it generates a lot of aggro but the spell exists for a reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bulwyf

Snip

---

Bul,

I am a healer my self and you have to be half twit neckbeard sporting moron to do what those guys did. Plain and simple the tank ALWAYS leads through the dungeon. Best CYA in there.
you and your wife should have re qeued and left them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Esura

On the PS3 I sometimes can't cycle through their names fast enough to heal the team when they all sustain too much damage.

---

I have this problem too, so I am currently experimenting with a new layout (so far it is hit or miss figuring out the the ideal layout), where I use hotbar number 3 for MACRO heals. R2 + d-pad = /ac Cure <me>, <2>, <3>, <4>

I have each labeled by number icon, which means they don't have the cycle, but since I also have a regular Cure 1, Cure 2, Medica, and Raise on L2 + d-pad, I still have a reference for Cure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Speeral

Bul,

I am a healer my self and you have to be half twit neckbeard sporting moron to do what those guys did. Plain and simple the tank ALWAYS leads through the dungeon. Best CYA in there.
you and your wife should have re qeued and left them.

---

Thanks for the kind words. I actually felt bad those two died a couple times during our run but there was literally no way I could keep the aggro on each mob with what they were doing. I honestly would rather level my guy as a monk now just to avoid being blamed and cursed at because someone else is at fault and instead finds it easier to blame the tank.

I played gladiator tanking in the first 4 dungeons and ifrit in p3 beta, it was the easiest tank I've ever played in a video game. I never lost hate to anyone by simply pressing 3 buttons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rivienne

I have this problem too

---

Just throwing this out there for the fact of it. This is one of those things behind the PS3 hate. Nothing against people on the PS3 but I honestly do not think SE should have released XIV for consoles, at least not with how fast they made the gameplay. I'm not saying it is impossible to play, we brought an off tank who was on PS3 through Ifrit and Garuda hard without too much trouble, but the poor PS3 players are at a disadvantage. I've parsed a lot of people throughout all of these runs and every single person who was on a PS3 always showed more damage taken and less damage dealt than a comparable and equally geared player. That said, there are a lot of bad PC players who are far worse.

Point is, you have to be really good to play on the PS3 because targeting and reflex actions are a lot more cumbersome, being bad on top of it would be a travesty of epic proportions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synfrag

Just throwing this out there for the fact of it. This is one of those things behind the PS3 hate. Nothing against people on the PS3 but I honestly do not think SE should have released XIV for consoles, at least not with how fast they made the gameplay. I'm not saying it is impossible to play, we brought an off tank who was on PS3 through Ifrit and Garuda hard without too much trouble, but the poor PS3 players are at a disadvantage. I've parsed a lot of people throughout all of these runs and every single person who was on a PS3 always showed more damage taken and less damage dealt than a comparable and equally geared player. That said, there are a lot of bad PC players who are far worse.

Point is, you have to be really good to play on the PS3 because targeting and reflex actions are a lot more cumbersome, being bad on top of it would be a travesty of epic proportions.

---

I beat titan hardmode with multiple players on PS3.

I leveled an MRD and GLD on JP servers when I couldn't access my WHM on Ultros. I definitely found it helpful in understanding how to heal better and in helping out when a new Tank hasn't quite got to grips with their role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synfrag

Just throwing this out there for the fact of it. This is one of those things behind the PS3 hate. Nothing against people on the PS3 but I honestly do not think SE should have released XIV for consoles, at least not with how fast they made the gameplay.

---

Well as someone who isn't that great in any game I am not so sure this attitude is helpful. For me personally I find I am better on the PS3 controller whenever I figure out a system. I tried going the other route first and found the mouse was much harder for me in fast fights. And anything that slows me down, is bad for everyone else. :)

That said. The biggest problem for me is that when I use the controller, I can't easily use the keyboard, and that makes for awkward fights when people want feedback.. I stay silent or I have to do the awkward stop and type. And nobody wants their healer to be unable to heal because they are typing. :p

EDIT: Back on point. I think the OP brings up a worthwhile discussion point even if I don't entirely agree with it as it seemed to be presented, so I am going to stop contributing to the ever derailing topic. (Now that I am out of posts for the next 24 hours again.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiyo

I beat titan hardmode with multiple players on PS3.

---

That's Awesome! It really is. I wasn't saying it was impossible, simply that it adds an extra challenge into the mix. I am curious though, were any of them the healer? Cause that seems to be the most challenging role to play on a controller. I have a gamepad for my PC and I switch to cross hotbar and kick back when I'm farming on a DD job but I personally think I wouldn't be able to play my WHM effectively on it. I use and would sorely miss my <mo> healing setup and the keybinds on my Naga far too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldreactive

I was able to hold aggro against a medica spamming healer (Since they couldn't "Click" on me to target me, and they were upset due to my small size.) It was glorious. (Tam Tara)

Being a lalafell tank helps me find healers who use the HUD.

---

Some healers actually click on characters themselves to target them?! Seriously? ...why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synfrag

That's Awesome! It really is. I wasn't saying it was impossible, simply that it adds an extra challenge into the mix. I am curious though, were any of them the healer? Cause that seems to be the most challenging role to play on a controller. I have a gamepad for my PC and I switch to cross hotbar and kick back when I'm farming on a DD job but I personally think I wouldn't be able to play my WHM effectively on it. I use and would sorely miss my <mo> healing setup and the keybinds on my Naga far too much.

---

I heal on a gamepad and it's not any harder than healing hardmode's in WOW. It works perfectly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

"It," as in Titan? Or "It" as in, healing in general?

---

It as in healing on a gamepad in hard content is not any harder than healing on a keyboard + mouse doing WOW hardmodes. I prefer gamepad in this game to mouse + KB even though I always prefer mouse + KB usually, gamepad is really fun/relaxing + that good.

Question. Haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if it has been addressed. But I have noticed that while on a healing job, it doesn't show the enmity meter for me. I do cast Aero/II. As Summoner, it shows, but as SCH and WHM it doesn't. I don't pull hate often, but would still like to know if it's toggle-able or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiyo

I heal on a gamepad and it's not any harder than healing hardmode's in WOW. It works perfectly.

---

"It," as in Titan? Or "It" as in, healing in general?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shyluv

Question. Haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if it has been addressed. But I have noticed that while on a healing job, it doesn't show the enmity meter for me. I do cast Aero/II. As Summoner, it shows, but as SCH and WHM it doesn't. I don't pull hate often, but would still like to know if it's toggle-able or something.

---

The enmity meter is there in the section where you see all the mobs. The little colored dots next to the names. If they're yellow, orange, or red, you're in trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tolmos

In all of my time MMOing, the most difficulty I ever had tanking was this game's level 15-20 gladiator tanking.

---

OK, seriously? I have never had an easier time tanking. It is so incredibly easy to get snap aggro on mobs with Savage Blade at early levels, and as you said, you have flash. If you are tab targeting back and forth to occasionally hit other mobs, while you have marked one for DPSers to attack (you ARE doing this, right?), then there should be no problems. If they can't attack the enemies you are targeting, and they get aggro from that, then that's on them for not paying the f attention.

What's crazy is that they make it even easier when you get Shield Oath. Your enmity actually doubles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rivienne

I have this problem too, so I am currently experimenting with a new layout (so far it is hit or miss figuring out the the ideal layout), where I use hotbar number 3 for MACRO heals. R2 + d-pad = /ac Cure <me>, <2>, <3>, <4>

I have each labeled by number icon, which means they don't have the cycle, but since I also have a regular Cure 1, Cure 2, Medica, and Raise on L2 + d-pad, I still have a reference for Cure.

---

I might try this out. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tari-F

Basically, people should just learn that enmity management is a team effort.

---

Absolutely right. There are so many small things that each team member can do to make the run smooth.

Whenever I see a healer pull aggro I feel like they must have never played FFXI. It was crazy easy to get enmity in that game, and you often needed to balance the right heal with the right situation. If you ever draw aggro? Don't heal yourself, let your backup healer do it so you don't generate more enmity! In this game though, I see people spam heals a lot and then go straight to healing themselves like crazy when aggro'd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiyo

It as in healing on a gamepad in hard content is not any harder than healing on a keyboard + mouse doing WOW hardmodes. I prefer gamepad in this game to mouse + KB even though I always prefer mouse + KB usually, gamepad is really fun/relaxing + that good.

---

Huh.

I should get myself a controller, then. Sounds a hell of a lot easier than what I'm doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaruPower

Whenever I see a healer pull aggro I feel like they must have never played FFXI. It was crazy easy to get enmity in that game, and you often needed to balance the right heal with the right situation. If you ever draw aggro? Don't heal yourself, let your backup healer do it so you don't generate more enmity! In this game though, I see people spam heals a lot and then go straight to healing themselves like crazy when aggro'd.

---

Hate to break it to you, but there are points where I, as a healer, can't stop healing. If the tank is getting his face pushed in, I can worry about pulling threat, or I can heal him so he doesn't die. I watch my threat, but it's not all on me.

If the healer is getting aggro from healing the tank needs to up his gear and step his game up. No excuses.