The "Greed" Mentality

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Originally Posted by Frothylager

Why should gear for leveling an alt or second class be more important than gaining seals or gil for your main?

Just depends on what your end game is which is why it goes to a greed vote

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Not to mention, for people that have multiple or all 50's, how do you determine whether their "need for off class" is any different for "greed for vendor"? What would stop someone from rolling for off class on an item, then turning that item in for seals?

The need/greed/pass system is fine the way it is. OP just got frustrated that he kept losing greed rolls that he thinks he deserves more than others.

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Originally Posted by Frothylager

Why should gear for leveling an alt or second class be more important than gaining seals or gil for your main?

Just depends on what your end game is which is why it goes to a greed vote

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Some of these drops are rare, and incredibly good. If you condone looting this stuff for 100 seals when the same can be had in a single FATE I honestly don't know what to say.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Some of these drops are rare, and incredibly good. If you condone looting this stuff for 100 seals when the same can be had in a single FATE I honestly don't know what to say.

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You do not deserve that item any more than someone else. What someone does with an item after winning a non-main-class roll is none of your business. You really need to understand this.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Not everyone is one-class-onry.

"Need" in its current form is completely useless. Many people are pushed in to specific roles to fulfil party requirements - just because someone can't press the need button, doesn't mean that person doesn't need the item.

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So what you just stated, is that your need(greed) is more important than another's?
Um, you need to go smack your mother for birthing you.
If it is for your active class, you will get NEED as an option. If you already have the item, you can only PASS.
If no one in the group NEEDs the item, then GREED is for everyone. Because the only thing you are really saying is that you have the RIGHT to select GREED, and evryone else should choose PASS.

So what you really want to say is, you are extremely GREEDy and everyone else is making it hard for you to have it all by GREEDing as well.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Not to mention, for people that have multiple or all 50's, how do you determine whether their "need for off class" is any different for "greed for vendor"? What would stop someone from rolling for off class on an item, then turning that item in for seals?

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Fantastic point, one I did not consider, and the only worthwhile thing I've seen you post here.

Obviously no change to the loot system can address this. The problem actually lies in the fact that rare drops are tradable for minuscule amounts of company seals in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Imagine someone rolling for much desired XI drops like RDM hat because they need gil, and it vendors for 20k.

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If was doing a dungeon to get items for a specific class, I'd be playing that class.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Fantastic point, one I did not consider, and the only worthwhile thing I've seen you post here.

Obviously no change to the loot system can address this. The problem actually lies in the fact that rare drops are tradable for minuscule amounts of company seals in the first place.

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Ok, so say you can turn in one of these rare drops for 1k seals. Or 10k. Are you going to be any less frustrated? Somehow I doubt it.

Even if they increased seals for turn ins it would be temporary. The items would will rapidly become "worthless" for trade ins, because everyone would be flooded with company seals, rendering rolls on the items pointless.

The solution here is not your suggestion to fix the roll system, or for the community to "fix their mentality". You need to fix your own mentality and stop throwing a tantrum because you didn't win a roll on an item for the class you refused to play with.

I started greeding everything when I noticed so much loot was thrown away because everyone passed it.
That is a waste. And I someday want to play all classes. So I felt bad for everything that was thrown away that I could have used.

If someone really wants an item they can say it in group and I won't greed. I have no problem with that at all, but when nobody says anything, I will just greed.

And sometimes I accidentally Need something I don't need, usually it is because party already moving on, and I have no time to see if I really need it. I do feel bad about it, but well it is already too late, usually I ask at the next drop, (even if I do need it) if anyone else needs it.

Hell... even if I need everything that drops, if other people really want it they may have it. If they let me know.
Or I make an agreement with them about taking turns.

Most people are pretty nice if you talk about it in a polite way.

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Originally Posted by Erana

If was doing a dungeon to get items for a specific class, I'd be playing that class.

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With harder content you may find yourself avoiding duty finder and putting together a group yourself by shouting. In this situation the players you recruit may or may not have multiple classes, and some people may have to go specific classes in order to have the right set up to clear that content.

These problems are obviously negated if you do everything with an FC, or only trusted friends but that won't always be the case.

This has got to be one of the most ludicrous things I've ever read...

Anyone has the rights to 'Greed' roll an EQ regardless of how rare or awesome it is, and what they do with it isn't for anyone to judge for they won the 'Greed' roll fair and square.

If you want gear for your main, play on your main where you can roll 'Need'

Gearing has always been a tedious process, what the OP is suggesting is to make it possible to gear all sub classes simultaneously.

sheesh...

If you want to need it, run it on that class. If your class cant use it yet, or cant run it yet, tough luck. You don't get priority over another person because of what you MIGHT do in the future. not to mention you have time to run that dungeon again on your other class (the one that needs it) while they may not. it doesn't matter if they or going to turn it into seals or hang it up on their wall. if you don't NEED it, which you don't cause you can't, then it's rightfully everyone's game. You're the one that's selfish.

Apparently I'm in the minority.

I would never greed an item to vendor for next to nothing when others may actually use it. I would rather see it hit floor.

It would help if we could see who has needed, greeded and passed before the item is actually given out.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Apparently I'm in the minority.

I would never greed an item to vendor for next to nothing when others may actually use it. I would rather see it hit floor.

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I'd sooner discard said item than let someone who thinks that their purpose for said item on 'Greed' roll is more righteous and justifiable than others, to get it.

You went wrong when you tried to enforce your [really dumb] item morality on everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Some of these drops are rare, and incredibly good. If you condone looting this stuff for 100 seals when the same can be had in a single FATE I honestly don't know what to say.

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I'm sure in these rare cases if you asked the player nicely they would either give it to you or at least sell it to you at a reasonable price. Either way neither of you "need" the item and it should be up to the winner to choose what they want to do with it.

Either way it shouldn't be "i play all the classes so i should get all the loot"

I need on gear I can use and will greed on everything else. If I get lucky and get a few drops, I'll start passing so someone else can win some loot. Simple as that.

If no one calls out beforehand that they are looking for specific gear, then it's a free for all. Even if the gear is only going to be turned in for seals, if you didn't speak up before the run, tough cookies.

The only issue I see is when as a Warrior, I see a plate/scale (with more offense stats like More str/crit/accy) item that no one needs drop, I can't roll on it for a solo set (I just ask the group at that point)

But in general, it's a greed option because it's for "greed", to sell, convert, use for alts, etc.. If you see a piece that you can wear but can't roll on as your main class you're currently playing, just ask, most people I've come across are ok with it.

You understand what they greed button does? I dont think so, otherwhise such a thread would never exist.

Need = i can roll on an item that my class can ware. that means a Whitemage can roll need on Healeritems.
Greed = i can roll on every item but only if the whole group presses greed i have a chance of winning.
Pass= im not interrested or more likely if have that item allready in my pocket.

If you are on Gladiator and want a pala item you need to press greed, when im on whitemage and want a pala item, i also need to press greed.
If you are on Gladiator and want a Whitemage item you need to press greed, when im on whitemage and want a whitemage item, i can press need.

Its a system that is fair.

Perhaps we should give OP the benefit of the doubt without concluding what he might be doing?

There are three settings, "need," "greed," "pass." Since everyone has only one character in this game, and all the alternative classes are in play, the problem is not "need" or "greed" but the "pass" setting. Its use is not clear. Unfortunately, it can't just get removed because it often has to be used to adjust for simple mechanics like making sure a specific player gets a specific item. Like if you just won an item, and you wanted that second caster to get the next one.

The usual response to this is "just run with your friends or FC" to avoid it. Probably the correct answer here too when duty finder doesn't keep a loot tracker, and everyone else is going to roll "greed." It's funny how "greed" is the clearest and safest alternative in this game.

People have a lot of faith in the PRNG god.

I fail to understand this thread. The words "expectations" and "duty finder" are incompatible. It's duty finder. It groups you with random strangers. You should not expect anything from them. In fact from what I've witnessed in several DF groups, you should not even hope that they will use words or any other form of communication, tolerate people who have never run that particular dungeon before, or stay after 1 failure. Really you're just showing up and hoping everyone knows the choreography ahead of time because if you don't, twelve help you. Now if you start from the point where you can't even expect a "hello", it boggles the mind to see how you progress to any kind of discussion about loot distribution.

If you have a certain set of expectations surrounding loot, run with people you know (as a good number have said in this thread). This will ensure you are all on the same page, no matter what your take on need/greed is (which is really not important frankly as long as those in the party agree on it).

It's not a case of justification, it's a case of courtesy.

If you see an item drop that you will never use, why would you roll on it?

In WoW you are bound to one class per character. This ensures that whenever anyone presses the "greed" button it effectively means "I'll take this if no one else wants it". At this point they can do whatever the heck they want with that drop. Throw it away, vendor it for 1c, look at it in their item bag, whatever. There is zero chance of screwing someone out of an item they might use in this situation.

In FFXIV everyone can play every class so when you roll "greed" on an item for the sake of throwing it away, vendoring it for 1gil, or just looking at it in your bag, you should first consider that there may be people in your group that could genuinely benefit from receiving that item you don't even care about. If you have considered this and would still rather win said item then throw it on the ground then I don't quite know what to tell you.

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Originally Posted by Halock

Conj - 40 runs a dungeon with a summoner -50
Awesome hat drops, conj needs, Summoner also needs even though his hat is 10x better - Summoner wins, says he has a lowbie arcanist that could use it and the conj gearing up is not his responsibility

I'm pretty sure this is what the OP is talking about, greed menatility........shocked so many of you can't see this

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I understand what you are saying but OP is talking about greed rolls. Even the post is title "The Greed Mentality". Greed rolls are just that, Greed. You dont need it but you want it, and you have the same chance as anyone else rolling greed. If the RNG doesnt fall your way its not the other players fault.

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Originally Posted by Pronsolo

I understand what you are saying but OP is talking about greed rolls. Even the post is title "The Greed Mentality". Greed rolls are just that, Greed. You dont need it but you want it, and you have the same chance as anyone else rolling greed. If the RNG doesnt fall your way its not the other players fault.

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It is effectively the same thing.

People rolling items "just because" works in MMO's where you are restricted to your single chosen class. Not so much in FFXIV.

I was hoping there would be a way to discourage this, or prevent it from happening completely without going back to Ye Old FFA /random with verbal looting agreements. But that seems impossible.

The "Greed" Mentality reflects the decision people make to roll on items to use as a door mat over the person next to him that would actually benefit from it.

itt: A Legacy Player thinks, everything belongs to him because he is legacy.

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Originally Posted by Usotsuki

itt: A Legacy Player thinks, everything belongs to him because he is legacy.

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You take that back, I'm legacy and I'm very much self aware of all most some of my shortcomings.

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Originally Posted by Usotsuki

itt: A Legacy Player thinks, everything belongs to him because he is legacy.

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Way to generalize there, guy.

While I understand the OP's point, it has to be understood that some people will simply greed everything for the sheer sake of having it. This feeling is stronger for some people especially when they are in a random group of people they don't care about and will likely not see again. But, personally, I "Pass" on every item that isn't mage related as those are the classes I concentrate on the most. I hit "Greed" on Ifrit's Codex yesterday while playing on my WHM. I play SCH too, so I was glad to get it. OP has to understand that people are requested to play particular roles and so it's always good to have the option to still get the item you want if you're not playing that particular class. But, again, courtesy comes into play when this sort of things is going on. But remember too, you're playing with strangers.

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Originally Posted by Tahldon

Way to generalize there, guy.

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Never meant to be offensive to 90% of the other Legacy player but yes, i generalized just like he did. Just because i am not level 50 with all the other classes, doesn't mean i wont need the items later on, so greeding is legit.

But Greed generally stands for "if no one else wants it, we'll roll on it for the vendor price".

for the sake of the fact "every one can be anything", if that player didn;t come on THAT specific class he wants items for, he has, as well as everyone else, the same right on that item. meaning, not so much (at least not prioritize him/her over another).

so in this case, a bit of a useless discussion imho...

What the hell dude? If you need the item then hit need.

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Originally Posted by Oriachim

What the hell dude? If you need the item then hit need.

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He can't.

He wants to be able to roll need on off-class items and take it from other people because he thinks his use for the item is better than theirs.

The OP is just selfish. He tries to hide it, but really he just hates losing on gear he wants. He wants system where, if he wants it, he wins it. He uses odd justifications for it. "Well you're just gearing a level 0 class." So? That might just be the next thing they level. You can have one character and all classes, so it's not outlandish that they are just playing for the future when they want to play that class.

I'm happy to know that nothing will change in the current loot system. I find it to be very adequate and useful. People like the OP can cry all they want over loot that in no way "should" have gone to them.

Like I said, it's about courtesy. People aren't adjusting their way of thinking from previous games where you can hit "greed" all day.

In nearly every MMO "Greed" is another form of "Pass".

In FFXIV "Pass" is pass.

@Usotsuki if you are levelling that class or genuinely intend to do so soon then fine. If you rolled to throw it away then there is no hope for you.

OP vs the World.

8 Pages of non-senses.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

@Usotsuki if you are levelling that class or genuinely intend to do so soon then fine. If you rolled to throw it away then there is no hope for you.

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Why would anyone do that ? I know, internet right but still... i think most people intend to level their classes.

So you're running on class A and want to roll on gear for class B that you are also leveling.

Why should anyone care?

Did your class B make a contribution to the fight?

That gear is a reward for beating that fight. I don't care what other classes you have, you didn't bring them, so you don't get to roll need.

Ask 10 people to rank the reasons for rolling greed and you'll get 10 different answers. There is no good way to have a tiered greed system, making them all equal is the best solution. Your greed is not more important than anyone else's.

You are the reason many other games have countless threads on their forums about ninja looting. You are the exact reason this gear roll system was implemented.

I am glad se came up with a system that prevents jerks from rolling need on gear that isn't for the class they are on.

K. Think about this OP.

There's 4 of YOU in the team. You all greed on an item that is not for your current class. Which one gets the loot?

You're not the only one who wants the gear for something other than the current class you're on. You assume people are just trading for seals but you have no way to know... You know what? Even if they TELL you, who cares?? They won the GREED roll.

You are trying to circumvent the queue line by playing a tank while gearing up your other classes. Well guess what, the people clicking greed are DPS and Healers. After lvl 30 all 3 of them likely had to wait an hour to get in...so I say Greed the F away if they want. (I generally pass because my crafting/gathering keeps my inventory too full as is)

OP this has been the way it has been since loot systems were put in place.

If you want to be able to get gear for another class/job speak up before hand when you get into a duty finder group, and say "Hey guys if you don't mind if any drops for "X" class do drop do you mind if I take it? I'm also leveling that class I am at xx level, and would like to get some gear for it". This community in this MMO is not like the community in other MMO's. I have yet to run into an instance where if I needed something, or talked in party chat that the other random people in the duty finder didn't respond. If they question whether or not you are actually leveling another class, and I do mean IF they can always examine you. In that window they can actually look at what classes/jobs you are leveling. From there it's up to them on what they want to do.

greed
/grēd/
noun: intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food.
synonyms: avarice, cupidity, acquisitiveness, covetousness, rapacity;

I'm thinking the button is named appropriately. I appreciate the system the way it is. If I really "NEED" something I can go as that class, or I can always take the time to go with my FC or people that wouldn't mind passing me stuff they know I need.

Is the system perfect for all situations? Obviously not. Is it a passable loot system? Absolutely.

If you want courtesy, run with your FC only. That was the solution to this kind of QQ in other MMOs, and always will be the solution.

That being said, I'm not going to ask every group I join if they're after a particular off set gear, I'm going to roll greed and move on. Most people share that same mentality.

Serious OP is serious. Need is need. Greed is greed. Pass is pass. QQ is QQ. That's how it is.