People WHO WANT A REAL SUMMONER pet class

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Originally Posted by abesut

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~20-30% of our dps being lost isn't being "heavily penalized?"

You're seeing what you want to see, and nothing else.

Take off the shades.

Garnet's main focus wasn't to summon, not in practicality. Neither was Yuna's. Rydia, as you said also had black magic(oh hey look, a precedent for a summoner to have other skills..).

Not to mention they are mechanically different, just like how the FFXIV summoner is mechanically different.


What it boils down to is you want FFXI summoner2.0, and that's it. Don't try to sugarcoat it, because everything you're saying has no support for what you want to be saying.


Oh, and guess what that means when you list 4 examples that are vastly different from one-another? There is no iconic class.

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Originally Posted by abesut

No one want big *** summons. Go away you troll

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Do you have to be so rude?

I just made a suggestion to get a bit of a nicer tone in this thread. But yeah... your arguments are invalid. Maybe you are just frustrated because SMN is not what you want it to be. In the end, it's not your choice, it's only yours to accept it or go anywhere else, where Summoner is what you want it to be.

There is not the one and only blueprint that says Summoner has to be completely reliant on their summons.

@ Kevee

Thank you for your answers.

Well either way square will do something with the summoner in the future considering all the gaming forums are pretty much in a stir when it comes to the summoner these are the most common opinions I personally see. 1. The summoner is boring, 2. They don't do enough dps and 3. They don't like how the class was designed to be a DOT class instead of a pet centric class. (I am in camp 1 and 3)

Summoner is the only class that is having all these debates the most we get out of others is people arguing over which is the best rotation. Pretty much the whole of BLM and monk topics are about rotations.

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Originally Posted by shinros

1. The summoner is boring. Pretty much the whole of BLM and monk topics are about rotations.

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Summoner is boring? Haha that is funny. I played BLM, that's what's boring. ;)

Sure, SE will do something, but they are not going to overhaul the complete job. Adjustments needed, no 100% revision.

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Originally Posted by Nyel

Summoner is boring? Haha that is funny. I played BLM, that's what's boring. ;)

Sure, SE will do something, but they are not going to overhaul the complete job. Adjustments needed, no 100% revision.

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Yup indeed low level black mage is boring almost dropped the class but things changed as soon as I got blizzard three, fire 3, thunder 3 and firestarter. Then the mp management aspect of the class came in and considering you have to stand there and cast majority of the spells makes combat more interesting too since I have to consider how much mana I have and what spells to use to avoid hitting the UI phase without enough mp to cast thunder 3 or other spells.

Then when flare enters the mix since it takes up all your mp why do you think all the black mages are debating about rotation? They are still trying to figure( and arguing lol) out a rotation with the best mp management and to get the maximum dps out of it.

I took my summoner to level 45 but its still the same DOT rotation I don't have to worry about my mp since you have energy drain and aetherflow. Then once I got fester and tri diaster I simply said its not the class for me since I wanted a pet class. Plus pets barely interact with your spells which I was disappointed with. etc Plus I found the class quests dull/uninteresting since I love the lore first most.

I thought we would learn more about the primals but its simply collecting their essence and enslaving it. While dealing with a madman I don't care about there is only one interesting detail of the quest and that is a certain figure appearing for like a few seconds. Which is helping my theory come together.

While talking with scholars they learn more about their fairies and the history of eorzea and they learn about tonberries how they became what they are. For an avatar of a god they seem pretty boring even the fairies emote showing you that they are aware of whats going on around them.

While black mages deal with the void and the corruption aspect and it has lead me to a new theory on the villains of the game and why the all black mages vanished and thanks to the black mage quest it lead me to another reason why summoners are no longer around. If you read the lore actually black mages are the warlocks of the game I talked with others about it on moogle and they agree after doing the quests.

Overall I simply find playing the summoner kinda dull. (Yoshi beastmaster PLEASE!)

Of course they won't revise the whole class at most I am hoping for that the pet will interact more with the summoner like garuda contagion spell that is a good place to build from. Well hey if it remains how it is my summoner will stay on the shelf. Right now I simply heavily considering re rolling scholar considering the people who level both summoner and scholar tell me scholar is more interesting.

When I was around level 5 with ARC I was pretty amazed about having Ruin, Bio and Physick "and now I can even cure my own Carby?! Damn, SE you got it right!"
I really was going nuts and filled with happyness!
The story of ARC/SMN is great and I loved the story-fights.

But as I leveld, I realized that I gained more DoTs and DoT-spread moves, but I never felt like I was a bro with my avatar.
The Egi-Versions...aren't really looking nice.
It's like the Primes being "The Muppets" and Egis are "The Muppet-Babys"
I accepted that since I'm doubting that SE will change that in any way.
But perhaps, if more people gather and raise their voices, they let them evolve in a quest to a more useful and better looking pet.
I don't want a 20" large Ifrit on my side, but legs might suit him pretty well!

People saying "just let your avatar attack without moves and choose the moves by yourself"
This is exactly what I want!
But most of the time I'm already busy keeping all dots/shadowflare on the enemy, using aetherflow-abilites and dodging moves (incl. european-lag).
It feels way more exhausting than fun to play.
As a Gamepad-user I only got the cross-bar available, so I only got 2 options:
1) Using the pet-crossbar - but switchting back and forth the sets is pretty stressful
2) Using the pet-abilites in character-crossbar - but this will of course take some space of your own abilites, so you got to switch through your bars anyway.
The 2nd option became my choice since this way I can see the cooldowns in my "own territory" and arrange them as I want.

Even the Limit Break has nothing to do with an avatar, its just the BLM Limit Break only with tiny Meteors instead of a big one.
It's just sad that they took the SMN as a DoT Job.
A DoT Job is important, no obection! But there are more jobs suitable for this kind.

Geezus, I really tried not to nag/QQ about it that much, but finally I said everything that was on my mind.

Thanks @Nyel for the link to the wiki page. I became a summoner because of Yuna, (Final Fantasy X). On a side note I do wish the summons interacted with summoner spells more, But being a Debuffer/DOT is fine with me. But all in all I am loving my summoner. It also looks like a color change is in order. Summoners wear green huh?

I too am loving my summoner. I do not want the class to be all about the summons personally. It was boring in ffxi. I love that it is a dot class. My only issue is people's perception of the class due to our lack of burst. They equate low burst with low overall dps which is a fallacy.

Ok people, a Summoner is someone who summons something to fight by their side.


OMG, That's what we have! :O


Get over yourselves and stop complaining. -.-

I think the summoner is fine as it is. Only concern is the lack of visual effects and the lack of burst. I thought Enkindle was going to be our one burst move but with a skill that has a 5 minute cd and does less than my skills with 10 sec, I don't really see why I should even bother using it. For a 5 minute cd I would expect some graphically intense ultimate...half the time I can't even see the ultimate going off. Enkindle is a summoner's weakest skill. Even ruin is better than it. >.>

I don't really mind the DoTs. I like the fact I can put DoTs on bosses and dodge stuff without worrying about my Dps dropping. I don't like how it takes us so long to put up all our DoTs. Our lack of burst is making a lot of parties kick us for BLM because they can burst.

Enkindle needs a cd reduction to match it's damage or more damage to match it's cd.

Lol people want FFXI summoner?

Have fun being gimped WHMs

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

Complain about the eggi design and size

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Stop reading right here.

I will definitely be submitting feedback, and requesting a change in design and size of the avatars to be more in line with FFXI.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Lol people want FFXI summoner?

Have fun being gimped WHMs

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News flash! SMN in FFXI are not gimped anymore! :O Your comment is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Nyel

Summoner is boring? Haha that is funny. I played BLM, that's what's boring. ;)

Sure, SE will do something, but they are not going to overhaul the complete job. Adjustments needed, no 100% revision.

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It is boring I actually never had any fun with my eggi it just their for show? All I do is cast DoT how is this even fun? Your maybe use to WoW but im not im use to Final Fantasy and playing the summoner is not final fantasy.

I got Arcanist to level 15 because it said I needed to get 15 for Blm for my Thuarm which is kinda sad since I already opened BLM in 1.0 only to lose spells and stuff.and the other job was archer which is strangely at 0(so how did I open Blm to begin with).

As for Summoner I luv'd it in FFXI the main elementals like Ifrit,Garuda and Fenny(Diabolos was cool looking,but pretty much useless)The bottom line is I have 0 Luv for the new smns after seeing a ton of level 50 smns with their fleas following .....>< !

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Originally Posted by Korvaene

I will definitely be submitting feedback, and requesting a change in design and size of the avatars to be more in line with FFXI.

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I agree 100% ,but it's not going to happen SE would have to redo or fix what was never broken and that would change the game drastically ! Summoner's have fun amd good luck ^^

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Originally Posted by Fossil924

I agree 100% ,but it's not going to happen SE would have to redo or fix what was never broken and that would change the game drastically ! Summoner's have fun amd good luck ^^

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this is what we get when SE dosnt let us beta test the SMN and just releases it.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

And you just want a FFXI summoner get lost.

I know this may be mind blowing, but it's almost as if this is an entirely different game, and that the summoner here is NOT the summoner from there. Amazing, right? If you want to get technical, FFXI summoner wasn't even the "real" summoner you people are calling for. In the vast majority of FF games, you simply summoned it, it did its job with absolutely no other input from the player, and then it fucked off until you called it again.

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Yeah, because SMN has Always been about casting diseases/curses and then having a lavalamp as a Sidekick! :D

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Originally Posted by Nyel

Do you have to be so rude?

I just made a suggestion to get a bit of a nicer tone in this thread. But yeah... your arguments are invalid. Maybe you are just frustrated because SMN is not what you want it to be. In the end, it's not your choice, it's only yours to accept it or go anywhere else, where Summoner is what you want it to be.

There is not the one and only blueprint that says Summoner has to be completely reliant on their summons.

@ Kevee

Thank you for your answers.

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I'm deeply sorry, if i knew that you were so sentitive I would had bubblewrapped my words :D

And to answer you: When has SMN ever been about casting diseases/curses at mobs/ppl ? Been playing FF since SMN was first introduced and can't recall that SMN has ever been a disease/curse casting class with cute lavalamps as pets.
My issue with SE is that they changed something that was already excellent into something it has never been, why try to invent the wheel twice?

Agree... and please still give a dot based class! I really like that stuff, but its just not a summoner.

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Originally Posted by abesut

My issue with SE is that they changed something that was already excellent into something it has never been, why try to invent the wheel twice?

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Politeness has nothing to do with being sensitive.

It doesn't matter if Summoners have been casting Miasma or Bio, what actually is the true aspect behind a Summoner, is called summons. The FFXI Summoner worked - what I read and heard - horribly in many ways. They had to do something else for FFXIV ARR and they choose this way to go. There was no way to make a class that is basically based completely on their summons, in FFXIV it would be far to punishing and difficult to realize that.

What SE should and could do is to give the Summoner special, new attacks, maybe some kind of symbiosis attacks - master & pet attack together, something like that. Not that difficult.

SE changed something, that had to be changed. We are playing a MMORPG, so the Summoner has to be adjusted in MMOish ways.

The way the class is designed allows the player to choose the level of micromanagement while still focusing on the player, and I think that fits this game very well even though I think we can all agree that a little more interaction with the summon would be a good thing (hopefully fixed later on. You know, when the game isn't less than a month old). People seem to not like the design because it's not what they envisioned, but I have yet to hear someone give a valid explanation for what the class should be that fits into this game's environment (still waiting if someone wants to break it down for me). So let's enjoy the class for what it is, because I am having a lot of fun with it and can't wait to see what we get in the future.
Also, can't believe no one has mentioned the actual summoning of primals later on (don't know if it will be summoner specific but it was mentioned in the PAX patch notes), so there's still hope for all the haters to get what they think they want.

I am sure no one cares what I think but I do not enjoy the dot summoner with lame pets. If i had to change the playstyle away from dots into something else it would look like this.

Ruin: 80 potency. Grants you and your pet a buff depending on what pet you have out.
(Ifrit: Grants the user and pet stacking buff that increases damage by 5%, stacks 2 times)
(Titan: Lowers damage taken by the user and the pet by 5% for 4 seconds. Does not stack)
(Garuda: Grants the user and the pet 3% spell speed. Stacks 4 times. Garuda gains double from this effect)

Ruin II: 80 potency. This spell and the pet do a special bonus attack.
(Ifrit: Apply a 15 potency dot for 18 seconds.) Both the player and the pet apply this dot.
(Titan: Gain health equal to damage dealt.) Both the player and the pet heal based on the damage of thier attack.
(Garuda: Deal half damage to all enemies near the target) Both the player and the pet do the aoe damage.)

Now these are just ideas of how I would have made the summoner feel closer to their pets while adding some depth to the overall playstyle of the summoner. Also this is me only changing 2 skills. I am sure I could give a huge list of ideas.

Like an aether flow spell that grants a party buff based on the summon out.
Garuda would buff move speed and spell speed
Titan would give everyone a small stone skin
Ifrit would add "Enfire" to all melee attacks

Or it could just pass whatever the Ruin 1 buff is to the party for a short time. Like 5 seconds. Everyone gains 10% damage or everyone takes 5% less damage or everyone casts faster. Who knows. But I would have tried to make more of a connection.

Summoner does suck. I regret I never played in XI....now I really regret it.
Fix this weak lame class.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

I am sure no one cares what I think but I do not enjoy the dot summoner with lame pets. If i had to change the playstyle away from dots into something else it would look like this.

Ruin: 80 potency. Grants you and your pet a buff depending on what pet you have out.
(Ifrit: Grants the user and pet stacking buff that increases damage by 5%, stacks 2 times)
(Titan: Lowers damage taken by the user and the pet by 5% for 4 seconds. Does not stack)
(Garuda: Grants the user and the pet 3% spell speed. Stacks 4 times. Garuda gains double from this effect)

Ruin II: 80 potency. This spell and the pet do a special bonus attack.
(Ifrit: Apply a 15 potency dot for 18 seconds.) Both the player and the pet apply this dot.
(Titan: Gain health equal to damage dealt.) Both the player and the pet heal based on the damage of thier attack.
(Garuda: Deal half damage to all enemies near the target) Both the player and the pet do the aoe damage.)

Now these are just ideas of how I would have made the summoner feel closer to their pets while adding some depth to the overall playstyle of the summoner. Also this is me only changing 2 skills. I am sure I could give a huge list of ideas.

Like an aether flow spell that grants a party buff based on the summon out.
Garuda would buff move speed and spell speed
Titan would give everyone a small stone skin
Ifrit would add "Enfire" to all melee attacks

Or it could just pass whatever the Ruin 1 buff is to the party for a short time. Like 5 seconds. Everyone gains 10% damage or everyone takes 5% less damage or everyone casts faster. Who knows. But I would have tried to make more of a connection.

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Square listen to this person.

What to say to Warriors who were expecting to be a top DPS with a great axe like warriors has always been and have been turned into a tank ?
Should they complain too ?

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Originally Posted by RockStrongo

Also, can't believe no one has mentioned the actual summoning of primals later on (don't know if it will be summoner specific but it was mentioned in the PAX patch notes), so there's still hope for all the haters to get what they think they want.

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thats a FC thing, nothing to do with summoner ^^

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Originally Posted by Vix_Spellweaver

Summoner does suck. I regret I never played in XI....now I really regret it.
Fix this weak lame class.

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Hate this kind of ppl who spit on the other with meaningless and useless sentences :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--SvqhrhXKg...play_super.jpg


All I'm getting out of this thread.

I'm abit disappointed about SMN from what I've heard and seen ingame. Summoners are one of the iconic classes/jobs of the Final Fantasy genre and was hoping for something unique. What is it exactly our summons do or add other then beeing there and support us? I do have some neat ideas for summoner let me know if you like any?

- To lets the summons enhance your skills, like Ifrit will boost fire moves, garuda boost wind moves. Or something among those lines would be interesting and since the primals all involve an element we should have skills that involve them. You'd be able to summon them according to your enemies weakness.

- Another idea would be to have your summons fuse with you ( temporarily). As you lvl you gain kills from using the primals power and learning more about primals. This would fit perfectly storywise since you summon is part of a primal, they should be able to learn more about them.

I just wanted to give this thread a bump. Some real concerns here and I would love to see a change to Summoner.

Hey you guys! You need to contact SE and tell them that White Mage needs to be fixed, NOW! I mean wtf is all this Stone and Aero crap? White Mage's aren't supposed to have BLACK MAGIC SPELLS! I MEAN COME ON! White Mage's should have nothing but healing spells and should only be able to do weak melee attacks with their staff. I mean that's how White Mage's have ALWAYS been. I can't believe they turned White Mage into a DPS class. GAWD!

This is how the OP and a few others in this thread sound. I honestly don't know what you expected the Summoner class to be. You do realize that this is an MMO and the classes need to be somewhat balanced right? The idea of a Summoner standing off to the side doing absolutely nothing while the pet does everything is idiotic.

Then they start listing previous summoners from FF history as examples.

Rydia: Could use Black Magic including VARIOUS status effect spells like, imagine that, "BIO!"

Garnet/Eiko: Both were primarily White Mages only using summons because they had no other way of dealing damage.

Yuna: Also primarily the White Mage, but through the magic of grinding the Sphere grid, could learn every single Black Magic spell possible. Oh and could potentially become a tank like Auron.

Let's face it. Pre FF10 Summoners have never been anything more than a flashier version of Black Mage, and a way to give White Mage a means of dealing damage.

FF10 Summoning completely dismissed your entire party so the Aeon could fight alone in turn-based combat. Good luck getting that mechanic to work in an MMO.

FF12 had the summon come out and join the summoner, allowing the summon and summoner to fight TOGETHER!

Where you guys are getting this crazy idea of what a summoner should be is beyond me.

This is degrading at the same speed my chat log fills with gil spammers in Limsa Lominsa

First off after going through here NO ONE is calling for "OOOOO shit summon time! Everyone step back, my big ass mofo here is going to smash his face and make shit go BOOM! like all of you people who disagree with those asking for change are claiming they are making. What they are asking for, is to not have a children's night light following them around and into battle, that is more of a passive boost then an active boost.

The one thing everyone does agree on is that a summoners main attraction in every single FF game was SUMMONS. Here they are more of a side line part of the class. So yea this annoys a lot of long time FF fans because this is in no way reminiscent of the classic FF summoner.

That being said im fine with the class, just don't call it a summoner.

since im limited to 1000 dumb characters a post had to add this in a second one >.<

Honestly its almost like giving the paladin no healing spells but fire/thunder/blizzard instead and making him use a lance....people would have a problem with that because that's not a paladin.

I would really like to see some more diversity out of the summons, personally. They really don't bring much to the party, and Yoshi-P said himself that summoners would rely on their pets for a majority of their damage. Bringing out each summon should have pros, and each summon should have their own place in a party.

I would love to see Garuda with something like an aoe enaero, Titan with aoe shield/stoneskin, and Ifrit with like a boost to fire-based damage, or something.

I know summoner will be getting lots of tweaks/changes in the future, and I'm excited to see what they do with the class.

the Pet kits need a lot of tweaking...enkindle is very underwhelming for a 300 second cooldown and Contagion is probably the only skills worth using on pets... the stuns are nice on paper but the pet actions are too delayed to make use of them

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Originally Posted by Gamma621

Then they start listing previous summoners from FF history as examples.

Where you guys are getting this crazy idea of what a summoner should be is beyond me.

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FF Tactics ? the even take some of wardrobe design from it, kinda funny that none talk about FFT. well if you see summoner in FFT you'll expect them to throw their summon at you not DoT-ing you to death.

Interview with summoner - summoner in a nutshell (or maybe coconut)

Reporter : Hi, I've never seen you in beta, it said that your class was summoner. what exactly your class do ?

Summoner : DoT-ing my enemies to their gruesome death while my cute pet massaging them HEUHEUHUE

Reporter : .... Mmmmm okay, i can relate to that, and so is your DoT do any good ?

Summoner : Oh pretty much well, i can just laid back looking at my hourglass counting and counting and counting .....while seeing my enemies flesh rotting oh oh wait don't forget that i can make them look worse with my lovely fester that made their flesh fall from their bones, and of course if the enemies like to cuddle that much i can share the fun for them with bane *grin*.

Reporter : Interesting .... but it sounds more like a wicked witch doctor to me other than ... well .... something in line with popular belief of a summoner. Speaking of summon does your pet do any good ?

Summoner : People said they're like torch, lavalamp, signpost and things i can't remember, and they just seem to be sometimes deaf ...

Reporter : Deaf ? can you tell me more about it ?

Summoner : Well when i tell my ifrit to stun it seems that he just spaced out there staring at the boss like an idiot, i have to yell at him like more than once and the same goes to the rest of them.

Reporter : Well that was a serious problem, but do you love your summons ?

Summoner : What ? What summon ? *thinking* oh do you mean my pets ? you can see there in my actions tab it said pets not summons get your facts straight lady ...

Reporter : Oh okay ... sorry about that ... so do you love your pets then ?

Summoner : Oh i love them as a pet, ifrit always help me when i'm writing something in my grimoire and for titan he ,,

Reporter : Oh ok ... sorry to interrupt (i dont need those details) but do you love them when you go into battle ?

Summoner : In battle ? (*mumbling* hell i cant remember, did they do anything ?) .... well they sometime usefull like garuda she can make my enemies to rot even longer love to see that ... my favorite so far .... seeing flesh rotting for much much longer time

Reporter : Well .... that was ... (what wrong with this guy) ... lovable

Summoner : *linkshell ringing* Hey ,,, whats going on ? .... okay i'll be there. Sorry lady but i think my time is up that was a call from Yoshi

Reporter : Yoshi ? now that what i call a story .. can you give me some quick note about what he want to talk about ?

Summoner : Well primarily about my obsession with this hourglass and my blabbering about famine and sickness becouse people around me have been complaining about that..

Reporter : Ah .... Interesting, well i wish you luck.

Summoner : Another time then lady ,,, *porting out*

Reporter : And that conclude with one of FF XIV - ARR class, The Summoner. Hope to see you guys in eorzea, as for now the session A Realm Report signing off

I get your gripes you didn't want summoner to be the dot/pet class you guys wanted to micro manage your minuter semi player sized yet full rendered versions of the primal and basically blackmage nuke with your pets leaving any meaningful rotation up to your pet and your direct control of your pet.
Leaving your character with the occasional cd and cross class ability.
I get that.
a compromise might be taking another page from wow I know you guys really hate that game and throw in a demonology lock's metamorphosis you basically take in the primal essence and become an avatar of your summoned primal so swap player model for a minuter player sized ifrit and boom you get a new hotbar with abilities and a new dps rotation to toy around with so all of you can become ifrit because that's what you guys really want. As your well placed dots tick and your mp burns away because maintaining the form would have a steep mp cost. Then you would swap out reapply dots drain back your mp again.