If You Fail Or Cancel A Leve It Should Be Gone

The real problem with dunes folk and other leves is that other leves give crap in comparison

I actually have a suggestion for fixing all the leve exploits
reward at the end of the leve, and make it a fixed amount of sp based on
1. The rank of the leve
2. Bonus based on number of stars (difficulty)
3. Size of party
4. % of mobs killed since member joined party (prevents people from joining at end and getting full reward)
5. Number of party members linking

The difficulty of leves varies way too much, as well as the sp rewarded
So leves should be balanced on difficulty as well else people will simply repeat the easy and shortest ones

The leve system is terribly unbalanced as it stands

One final note, leves should not fail simply do to loss of connection, especially considering most are due to horrible server and client, performance and bugs. Time remaining should leave the quest open till abandoned completed or time runs out.

The reason they have the timer and can't make it so you can come back to it anytime Kilta is because Guildleves are semi-instanced events. When you activate the Guildleve at the Aetheryte it spawns mobs for you and you only to kill unlike FoV where it gives you target mobs to kill that just roam freely and anyone can kill. So if you activated a leve and then D/C'd and decided not to log back in if there was no timer then those mobs would just sit there with nobody able to kill them until you do come back, which would probably cause overcrowding in some area's if enough people did it.

Having that said I personally would prefer FFXIV to have a FoV style system rather than the current Guildleve system we have now. FoV did exactly what it was supposed to do. It helped solo players gain a boost and also did the same for being in a party without being so over powered that it made any other kind of levelling seem pointless in comparison.

I weas thinking that if u dc the mobs dissappear till you log back on but ya. Id much rather have the fov system just keep the basic basic leve concept cuz I like going to a counter and picking out bounties/ work orders which are what levequests are. You are helping people out with their problems the counter is like a bulliten board of sorts. Just make it more like fov. Maybe fix the star system in away similar to fov pages.

like you walk up to the counter
select the level range you fit in
select a guildleve and each levequest has a 1-5
1 being for solo and has mobs you can solo and 5 being mobs for a party of 8

then you just go to the crystal and activate it, just it will be nin instanced. But put enough mobs there for a few parties to be in these locations.
And balance out all the guild leves to do the same sp regardless of which town you doing it from like leves 1-10-20-30-40-50 are all the same sp ranges. So no one is picking the same town and guildleves.

Just a thought :3

- make all leves give equal SP

- allow players to choose all leves

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Originally Posted by Evangela

- make all leves give equal SP

- allow players to choose all leves

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making guildleves fov style would do what your asking.

I made a thread about this awhile back and received some blowback from people, and some constructive stuff too. I was really hoping for someone from the SE community team to address it in my thread, but nobody did. Maybe they will see this thread and address it.

I do know that during an interview someone from SE posted on it, but I think they should reevaluate the "trade off" and change it. Sure, you don't get a reward if you fail, but I don't think they assumed that failing leves intentionally for more SP would become the norm. It just does not seem like something they would want you to do. Content is made to be completed, not abandoned.

Please, SE, reevaluate this and change it.

The problem is there is no other content. Guildleve's in their design are supposed to be quick/casual content that you can jump right into. Once they have put in other things for us to do then we won't be doing the leve's so much and thus the problem will mostly solve itself.

They do still need balancing though but if they went the other way and nerfed the good leve's like Dunes to bring them inline with others you know there would be a huge uproar unless they had given us something new to do.

Even if you only get one chance to do Dunesfolk, it is just going to be harder to get into a leve party unless you have it anyways.

I am neither for or against this though. All i have to say is that things wont change for the good, in fact, it will only make things harder for everyone.

i think redesigning levequests into something more similar to fov pages woulda been better. Fov pages pretty much added something to do other then just grinding mobs. It was quick to do, and rewarding. So anyone can do a few fov pages solo or in a party. making levequests into a similar style will show any and all guildleves one can get, people wil not be crowded at one camp. And the towns wouldn't be empty since all nations will have similar sp rewards. Like I said, it don't seem very ffxi ish tp purposly fail at something, nor heroic. And if they can do that, no one would be worried about dcing since they can log back in and just kill off w/e they need to, to complete the leve.

fov pages in ffxi were fun. And it gave ppl something to talk about when partying.

I see this thread has been busy while I've been sleeping.

Thank you all very much for your opinions, even the ones that differ from my own.

I guess people are just quite happy to make the maximum gains for minimum effort, I have no doubt that these people are the same that complain of a lack of immesion and content. I guess Eorzea is just filled with a vast majority of adventurers who can't finish a job.

Adventurer: "I'm sorry guild master I couldn't save the land from the beasts as you requested!"
Guild Master: "Oh and why is that?"
Adventurer: "I figured I would just try it again tomorrow for the experience"
Guild Master: "Then I'm sorry, I cannot give you your reward until the mission is completed!"
Adventurer: "Keep it Gramps! gils not worth the gold its printed on!"

In all honesty, I believe this 'exploit' (yes I still believe it is) is one of the reasons why Thanalan is the only populated area.

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Originally Posted by Gracious

I personally feel this is an exploit. In my opinion if SE wanted us to be able to cancel, fail, or redo with the intention it is used for this method, they should give us the option to begin with frankly and without tarnishment. I will not participate in this and it will take me alot longer to rank up. I just don't feel comfortable gaining my ranks by taking advantage of this weakness not designed for that purpose. I ask that if this practice is acceptable by SE that they make it an option to cancel and be able to redo the leve on the next reset; not go about it in the manner it is now.

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It is, by definition, exploiting. I choose not to do it because I don't like taking advantage of something that wasn't supposed to be used that way. I don't care too much if SE does something to fix it, but I won't be using it to get ahead.

I see no rush to level/rank up anyways. There's not much to use those levels for at the moment.



Question... What was that about Dunesfolk in the OP? Never heard anything odd about them.

Nabiri, I'm having trouble understanding your question. Can you please elaborate so that I can attempt to answer.

I'm sorry. ^^ I was confused. It sounded like people are accepting only Dunesfolk into their parties.
Now I'm wondering if "Dunesfolk" was part of the leve name. :x

hehe! I like that idea!

Yeah, one of the leves is called Dunesfolk for Dinner.

It is not a violation to abandon and rejoin normal guildleves. However it has become a violation to abandon and rejoin stage 3 NM faction leves..... So dont do it ^^

I don't abandon any leves. Period.

But..... Raine riveries....

Hehe but like I said, It may change or become just plain stupid when they finally balance out leve rewards. You know the Devilet leve of Camp Broken water is totally garbage and a waste of a slot. It could be made much better, but they havent really touched battlecraft leves much yet.

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Originally Posted by PennywisE

hehe! I like that idea!

Yeah, one of the leves is called Dunesfolk for Dinner.

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Ah I see. haha. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks. I hadn't looked into the leve being exploited because I have no interest in doing the same.

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Originally Posted by PennywisE

I see this thread has been busy while I've been sleeping.

Thank you all very much for your opinions, even the ones that differ from my own.

I guess people are just quite happy to make the maximum gains for minimum effort, I have no doubt that these people are the same that complain of a lack of immesion and content. I guess Eorzea is just filled with a vast majority of adventurers who can't finish a job.

Adventurer: "I'm sorry guild master I couldn't save the land from the beasts as you requested!"
Guild Master: "Oh and why is that?"
Adventurer: "I figured I would just try it again tomorrow for the experience"
Guild Master: "Then I'm sorry, I cannot give you your reward until the mission is completed!"
Adventurer: "Keep it Gramps! gils not worth the gold its printed on!"

In all honesty, I believe this 'exploit' (yes I still believe it is) is one of the reasons why Thanalan is the only populated area.

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I think you've kind of not realised the point on what you're trying to say

Most people have done a variety if not all possible leves, but when you're out to Grind constantly, day in day out, why would you do a level that takes longer and provides less? If your only Aim is to get levelled, you would do it the best way possible, this happens on every game, and you most likely do it yourself, and you've most likely done it on every other game, including XI. In XI you did a pt of 6, why ? its the best way, you didnt solo it all on EP mobs.

If you're looking for variety, then sure do other leves, but people are not complainign about that, the "immesion and content" is not killing x mobs in another location.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PennywisE

I see this thread has been busy while I've been sleeping.

Thank you all very much for your opinions, even the ones that differ from my own.

I guess people are just quite happy to make the maximum gains for minimum effort, I have no doubt that these people are the same that complain of a lack of immesion and content. I guess Eorzea is just filled with a vast majority of adventurers who can't finish a job.

Adventurer: "I'm sorry guild master I couldn't save the land from the beasts as you requested!"
Guild Master: "Oh and why is that?"
Adventurer: "I figured I would just try it again tomorrow for the experience"
Guild Master: "Then I'm sorry, I cannot give you your reward until the mission is completed!"
Adventurer: "Keep it Gramps! gils not worth the gold its printed on!"

In all honesty, I believe this 'exploit' (yes I still believe it is) is one of the reasons why Thanalan is the only populated area.

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It actually isnt failing leves that makes Thanalan more populated, its the fact that they have the best leves period for getting to R50. Even if they dont fail those 3 BW leves all the time, where will people go first to check for leves? The Ul'dah Adventurer guild of course - until hey balance the Battlecraft Guildleve rewards.

I find it is just the same as leveling on certain monsters. You want to maximize your SP gain so you use your knowledge of the game to maximize your input. It is like saying using a certain staff over another same level staff is exploiting the game. The players have realized what is better, so they use it.

Though I wholeheartedly agree with the thought that the leves need to change. Doing one leve over and over again is tiresome, especially in the same place. I really want to be able to get a group in LN or BS. Something different in a leve to do would be nice and I have not tried the defend leves yet as there is no one who does them.

I like the idea of having all leves give close to the same sp, but I think it should depend more on skill rather than just completion. The lump end sum of sp at the end is a interesting idea, as it would feel more like a mission from other games. There are several problems I see arising from it such as having a group of players and only needing 1 or 2 to complete and giving everyone in the group sp. I would like to see it based on a ranking, per player, that uses time, # of enemies defeated, amount healed, etc. Would require much balancing between classes and different leves though.

Yep. but it is either do those same leves over and over, or make it take ages to rank up, because every other R40 leve sucks in comparison to the 3.

I do agree that people will always strive to get the maximum output for their time and yes I do that myself. However, accepting a mission fighting through 99% of a leve then quitting just doesn't seem in keeping with the spirit and lore of the world and the game.

The Guildleve system is clearly designed to provide a number of varied & different missions every reset. Using a weakness in the system so that you only complete the same ones that give you the most sp/xp goes against that concept.

Masamune - this is nothing like your staff analogy.

We have only the dev team to blame for that ^^. But since they have authorized it, people will do it until it becomes unnecessary to do it.

Sad a development team have 'authorised' an exploit.

I wonder what the current stance would be if they where asked ?

I am sure someone asked if it was OK to do after they found out.

It's boring, so I always complete my quests =)

You know, instead of looking to Leves to rank up you could just go grind normally >_> Leves are not the only way to level,

As others have said in other threads and possibly this one, I think a better alternative is to just have all the leves for any given camp be available every reset.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

As others have said in other threads and possibly this one, I think a better alternative is to just have all the leves for any given camp be available every reset.

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Agree, or maybe giving us another way to be sure that all of the party members has got the same leves, like giving the same leves to everyone who gets them at a certain time, or making that if you're in party when you check the leves all of the mambers have the same leves available.

The producer's already stated he wants to go after practical decisions that break lore. He specifically mentioned putting a stop to blood porting. This is the same kind of lore-breaking for practical gain. It can be easily resolved, and should be.

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Originally Posted by Verecund

I personally think they should just eliminate SP on guildleve mobs altogether and have all guildleves across a level range reward the same amount of SP at the end. It would definitely alleviate the issue I think.

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This is the best solution, it would remove the need to both favour certain leves and abandon them, I also agree though that we should be allowed to select from all the leves available.

And of course rebalance the leves that outright suck in terms of SP gains and rewards. Some of them no one wants to take just because it's done in like 3 minutes or the monsters aren't worth fighting.

problem with Leves is, they werent supposed to be the main method of leveling, it was supposed to be an option, but since people said they wanted to do leves for exp all the time, they cut the reset counter, and continued to amp them up.

The problem being, sure some leves were supposed to be really good for exp, but some leves were supposed to be really good for getting rare monsters/drops, some were supposed to be fast and easy if you wanted to get money fast. Some were supposed to give you good faction credit.

Back when sp was per action, and fairly hax, people stopped even doing thier leves, the main focus was, get em done fast as possible, because for exp youd be better off fighting piestes 20 levels higher than you, and trying to survive raptors 1 shot tail swipes, when they were 20 levels higher.

So really, what happened is people only care about exp from leves now, so the exp leves are the favored ones


Making lump exp, or having all of them give the same rewards wont work, people will just do the ones that have them kill 2 mobs. Making them all have a similar number of mobs in a similar time frame kills the idea of creating interesting, and different types of content in leves (not that they did this that well, the leve system as a miniquest system is far from being used to its potential)

Other thing is the main reason they cancel is not even because completing it is bad, its just because for linking in statics, or ls, its easier and more exp faster if you all have the same leves, if you complete a leve, there is no guarantee that you will get the same one as your friends next roll.

The leve situation is really complex and problematic.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Other thing is the main reason they cancel is not even because completing it is bad, its just because for linking in statics, or ls, its easier and more exp faster if you all have the same leves, if you complete a leve, there is no guarantee that you will get the same one as your friends next roll.

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Right, which is why they should just let us choose from all leves for that camp every reset. That way you don't have people failing their leves intentionally in a very non-heroic manner and you still get to leve-link and party together. As others have stated they've been shunned from parties for not having certain leves to link, that's not right.

Some people will always try to exploit everything.. we can get things "fixed", yes.. but then again.. the honest ones will be suffering from it..
If I unintentionally fail by timeout or crash a leve with a reward I really wanted, I want to be able to repeat it.. so no.. I say no about making failed leves unrepeatable..
Ah and there is /blacklist for those who shun you from parties because you don't have a certain leve.. that is a very childish and "noobish" behaviour..
Like usual.. it's the players, not the game.. in this case..

I'd rather they just balanced the other leves so that they are as good as Dunesfolk. Then people would pick the leve based on the faction or the reward. They definitely need to make LL and Gridania leves better so that people are more spread out. Not so much an issue now but if the game grows.

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Originally Posted by Lenneth_Valkyrie

Some people will always try to exploit everything.. we can get things "fixed", yes.. but then again.. the honest ones will be suffering from it..
If I unintentionally fail by timeout or crash a leve with a reward I really wanted, I want to be able to repeat it.. so no.. I say no about making failed leves unrepeatable..
Ah and there is /blacklist for those who shun you from parties because you don't have a certain leve.. that is a very childish and "noobish" behaviour..
Like usual.. it's the players, not the game.. in this case..

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You would have to blacklist entire servers if you are against leve abandonment lol

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Originally Posted by Xenor

I'd rather they just balanced the other leves so that they are as good as Dunesfolk. Then people would pick the leve based on the faction or the reward. They definitely need to make LL and Gridania leves better so that people are more spread out. Not so much an issue now but if the game grows.

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It still wouldn't be enough, people fail dunesfolk not just because of the amount of SP, but mostly because they are sure that there are other people failing it, it's like a tacit agreement :D they have to give us an option to be sure that everyone in party is having the same leves, even if they aren't as good as dunesfolk.

Ok so this is like the umpeenth thread on this, it surfaces as a new one every other friggin week

but let me sum up what EVERY OTHER thread on it has stated

1) This is not a exploit, it is not a bug, its reward vs sp, you sacrifice the reward to get more sp
2) The devs added this on purpose, it isnt an accident
3) people will always whine about something they dont agree with