FATEs are killing Dungeons and team play

As Babylyn90 said... nerfing fates and forcing people into dungeons doesn't work out so well, basically for said reasons. But people should be equally encouraged to do all manners of leveling so they don't feel forced to do ONE single (and possibly boring/tedious) method of leveling up. The classes are great in that you can be anything on the same character, why cant we have leveling that adapts to you the player and your playstyle? FATEs aren't highly rewarding to healers or tanks as I'm hearing here, but they're amazing for damage dealers. I'd like to see something where any method of leveling is viable... sure, even grinding.

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Which as most people here have seemed to agreed... is that you get people without the gear or experience attempting content that they just aren't prepared for.

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I can see this but you really can't stop them from literally not taking the dozens of hints in early game that try to lead them in a good direction. These are the same people that would go out into the wilderness and mindlessly grind xp instead of doing quests or dungeons that are more challenging in an older mmo. I don't believe the actual game should have to funnel people into doing what seems like common sense (updating to current gear before party play, doing quests and working dungeons runs into your gameplay for better gear boosts and player skill. ect even if you spend a lot of time doing fates.)

SE: Hey guys I heard you don't like mob grinding.... let me introduce to you... FATE grinding I hope you like the difference

GG

Let people play how they want to play, FATES are fun for some of us and don't mind over gearing certain dungeons. I'm still 35 or 36, I do both along with story. If the people you get in queue are bad is because they are not because of FATES. I do see lots of tanks not wanting to CC stuff that annoys me and I'm DD it also annoys my wife who's WHM and the tank thinks he or she is doing the group a favor by trying to go faster. Bad players will be bad player's. I'm also like many of you taking the time to learn the story yet FATES give me something else to do while we quest and wait in queue.

Bay is the only pain in the ass dungeon for most players so far it seems, I have yet to see the others but just let players choose how they want to level whether it makes them bad or not. Point being if you think fates are boring find another way to play dungeons or get friends like yourself.

Several problems...

Fate's give lots of seals, exp, gold and are ridiculously easy and numerous.
Dungeons give no seals, very little exp and not much gold but good loot.
You can't use your chocobo companion or join another group in the duty finder.

To fix this need to change fates so they take longer with large amounts of people and not get blown up in 2 minutes. Dungeons need to give seals, exp and gold proportional to FATEs and being in the duty finder needs to allow you to be in a group.

Here is my 2 gil.

I will start by saying I absolutely LOATH the FATE zerg. I think it destroys the game in it's current state. While I could care less about how people level, I do tend to care when it impacts my game play, Since getting over 30, I have found it near impossible to participate in FATEs, earn seals and get the occasional XP pops without having to join a mindless zerg.

Now unlike the OP I don't feel I have any right to impose my play style onto others and scream OMG NERF FATES, but the fact of the mater is, they are imposing theirs on myself and everyone else who has a different play style. A vast majority of people just want hand outs with minimal effort, it matters not to them that their actions actually impact other players.... Fact... accept it.

to be continued ... grrrr 1000 char

What I would like to see is more of a balancing of the FATE system so people that want to zerg can zerg and people that would like to do them casually can. Keep the xp / re pop efficiency etc times etc untouched but at least implement some sort of diminishing returns if you do xxx amount of the same unique fates over and over in a particular area the rewards would plummet. If you move to another level appropriate area for awhile, all remains unchanged. This is would hopefully at least spread the zergs out a bit to at least give players that don't want to partake in the zergs a chance to enjoy the same content they have every right to enjoy.

An alternate solution would would be to phase the FATE's like how they do with quests. Each phase could support say a max of 12 people, 24 for bosses, and the mobs not in your phase would be untouchable to others like levequest mobs.

Fates aren't the problem, people are just trying to rush to max level to do endgame content. As many of you have already pointed out, most of them have no idea what to do when they get there. This is a Final Fantasy game, I expect the learning curve to be pretty sharp, especially based on the learning curve FFXI threw at you. I have even noticed that a lot of people playing certain classes don't even take the time to read what their abilities do and just use them without any thought to how best to use them. It's really quite... amazing, to see the ineptitude of a lot of players because they are rushing to the end. I like that SE made leveling in different ways viable. If they didn't, someone (a lot of people) would just complain that they cater to much to one way and not the other and that they can't level the way they want.

Party focused leveling was an issue they had in 11 that I think they learned from from the most part, but now I don't think they enforced enough group leveling outside of dungeons and fates. If they gave even more of an xp bonus over the already assumed xp bonus you can recieve from party grinding I think you would see an overall increase in quality of players. This would be due to them getting accustomed to their roles repeatedly and having to adapt to different players and situations. This experience on how to do their job would carry over into instances, raids and the like even if they don't have the proper experience for that setting.

I have noticed that it seems to be a really foreign concept in a lot of MMOs that many people are bringing over to FFXIV. All of this solo play gets really boring after a while. I really don't understand why people play an MMORPG to solo all of the time to level caps. To me, it doesn't make any sense. I like the game, just wish you had more interaction outside of Instances as far as grouping up.

If they added GC seals to dungeons it might encourage more folks to do them. But when I am grouped with a healer or tank guildie the DF queue is very short, so I don't think it's so much lack of ANYONE doing dungeons as it's the common MMO issue of DPS outnumbering tanks and healers by a huge amount.

But I agree about FATE zergers often not knowing how to play their class. It really shows. Getting to level cap means nothing if you're a derp at actually playing the game. FFXIV goes out of it's way to offer tutorials on how to learn your class -- but you can't force people to take the time, and many don't. Hopefully they get bored of being terrible after a while and either improve or go to another game.

I dont know what people are talking about troubles of magic users and FATE's. As a Conjurer I have no trouble with FATE's and i always get top points in them. I just make sure that i use Cleric Stance to boost offensive spell damage, them a quick spell like Aero or Fluid Aura to get damage in before the enemy is defeated and then use other attack spells if the enemy is still alive. So far this has worked very well for me. Then in dungeons i just focus on keeping my party alive

fates are fine. let people play the way they want

I agree with the OP. Fate's Exp is very very cheap.

It simply ruins the game. People getting to Lv50 the 3rd day of Early Access, really?...

People keeps saying thing like:
Why do Dungeons? I get better Exp from FATES
Why do Story Quest? Better Exp from FATES
Why do Sub-Quests? Better and faster Exp from FATES
Why doing missions and suplies for Grand Company Seals? Its more rewarding with FATES
Why doing mates for Grand Company Seals? same ^

I remember I saw a message from beta 3 when I unlocked the Grand Company saying "Seals from FATES will be only available to adquire during Beta 3". I rememeber I thought "Good, because they are so easy to get". I dont FATE too much (just if the FATEs spawns in my face or is a boss FATE near) and I already have over 30k seals without doing any mission or mates from the Grand Company NPCS.

Now, people dont find other players to play for dungeons because FATEs, the maps are crowded with full partys of "Grind FATES" like Costa del Sol, Coerthas, etc. Thats the mayor reason behind all the problem to find people in your current server to play the dungeons, people went to Duty Finder and the DF collapses.

Whats the reason to have nice, beautiful and very well done content, dungeons and quests if you can get everything you need so easy with FATEs?

FATEs Exp need a nerf, a balance and in my opinion remove the company seals from FATEs too.

Some people like the game content, some people like to do the quests, and some people really want to do dungeons, and its really impossible because the majority just like to run over the entire map, killing mobs, smashing one button, and getting better rewards in less time than the players enjoying the real content. FATEs is the cancer of FFXIV.

Class quest teach you how to play your character not dungeons really, keep the xp the way it is some players don't have time to run an hour dungeon so they FATE for an hour or two for the better xp. Let those who don't care about story do what they want and do the story faster later if they choose to. I's pretty easy to find gear your level on the marketplace without running dungeons. Again just let people play the way they want and if you want to dungeon get three friends to do it with you and if you don't want to FATE on your class get a crafting or gathering class up while waiting for your buddies to log on that way your seeing the world they built and taking your time to 50.

Weird I get in the que almost instantly. Also my advice is get in a fc and get yourself a dungeon group from there

I get the feeling that many of the people crying here are going to regret it after they get their first couple of 50's, if SE listens and decides to nerf it.

What's the alternative, after I have 4 50's? The story is completed, the well of quests has run dry and I've run out of my allowance for leves and have to wait hours for more. Do I just que for 30+ min, and do a 30 min dungeon run for minimal exp; or do I run FATEs?

If you want to cry about something, cry about the dungeon exp yield. The FATEs are fine.

OP is correct, FATES need some major nerfing. They pop up far to frequently and provide far to much experience, the experience they provide needs to be balanced to the level of leve quests. People are leveling classes/jobs without learning how to play them. Its bad for the ingame economy(in the long run) with people not purchasing equipment ffrom one another when they can just skip upgrades because exp is too easy. Along the same line, people are not running dungeons for mid level gear because it just doesn't matter if you have it with easy exp from FATES. The lifespan of the game will probably take a hit if people just finish their classes in a few weeks and start running out of things to do. I know SE wanted to make FF14 more casual friendly than FF11 but this is just beyond insane.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuTachi

I get the feeling that many of the people crying here are going to regret it after they get their first couple of 50's, if SE listens and decides to nerf it.

What's the alternative, after I have 4 50's? The story is completed, the well of quests has run dry and I've run out of my allowance for leves and have to wait hours for more. Do I just que for 30+ min, and do a 30 min dungeon run for minimal exp; or do I run FATEs?

If you want to cry about something, cry about the dungeon exp yield. The FATEs are fine.

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Just wait, when fates get nerfed, barely giving any xp, the same people that wanted fates nerfed will cry fates dont give enough xp to even be worth to do. JUST like GW2 lol

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Originally Posted by ClockworkSpectre

OP is correct, FATES need some major nerfing. They pop up far to frequently and provide far to much experience, the experience they provide needs to be balanced to the level of leve quests. People are leveling classes/jobs without learning how to play them. Its bad for the ingame economy(in the long run) with people not purchasing equipment ffrom one another when they can just skip upgrades because exp is too easy. Along the same line, people are not running dungeons for mid level gear because it just doesn't matter if you have it with easy exp from FATES. The lifespan of the game will probably take a hit if people just finish their classes in a few weeks and start running out of things to do. I know SE wanted to make FF14 more casual friendly than FF11 but this is just beyond insane.

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Kinda like how 1.0 players had a nice PL method to get all battle classes to 50; surely they all know how to play all their jobs flawlessly. Kinda like how FFXI had Summoner burning, now Abyssea. FFXI is not this bed of roses, only laid for the hardcore, that people love to portray. I can assure you, even if people spam dungeons from 15 to 50, they can still be garbage at their jobs and not play well.

Secondly, people ARE running dungeons; because only a handful can be skipped. The story sends you through most of them.

And my last point, this has no effect on the economy. In fact, I haven't had to buy a single piece of gear, want to know why....because quests have provided everything. I've gotten a few HQ's from dungeons and from my Grand Company; but other than that, it has been all quests.

FATEs are fine.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Just wait, when fates get nerfed, barely giving any xp, the same people that wanted fates nerfed will cry fates dont give enough xp to even be worth to do. JUST like GW2 lol

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That is exactly what will happen. Hopefully SE will realize that not all input is good input. Hopefully they also notice the extreme lack of 'likes' on the OPs post. That fact alone screams that only an insignificant number of people are in agreement.

It's not hard to FATE as an arcanist; get there, throw dots, pop bane. What's with your "threatening to unsub" attitude? Go play another game that's equally better: Oh, wait. You can't. Stop being so serious about a game mechanic and thinking it changes everything: it's one part of the game: you don't like it, play another part. If you think that by FATEs being in the game, the rest of the game is affected on a major factor, you're being ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Coolface330

It's not hard to FATE as an arcanist; get there, throw dots, pop bane. What's with your "threatening to unsub" attitude? Go play another game that's equally better: Oh, wait. You can't. Stop being so serious about a game mechanic and thinking it changes everything: it's one part of the game: you don't like it, play another part. If you think that by FATEs being in the game, the rest of the game is affected on a major factor, you're being ignorant.

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Until you see level 50 chars with totally outleveled gear wanting to beat ifrit or some level 50 dungeon and do not even have a clue how to heal or play in a real party. So yes it is affect the endgame a lot. SE has put so much effort in dungeons and tries to teach people how to play in a light and later full party and Fates are ruining all this.

I'm all for the "play however you want to play"; I still don't think we should be looking at this from the "nerfing fates" point of view, but from the "other things (dungeons, etc.) need a similar level of incentive". I'm still on my first character, but knowing that the FATE xp bonus will be there for my CNJ (I'm not too fond of mages but need it for PLD) makes me feel better about having to do all the leveling again without main quests and/or crap xp. Similarly, if dungeons have worthwhile xp and more incentive, they won't feel like a chore for my next few classes.

I LOVE doing dungeon runs on my tank; sure some players need to improve, but I'm not going to pretend I'm not one of them.

Are you kidding me? If there were no FATEs they would need to introduce a banking system for your alts cause you would have to make them. Leveling a second class/job without FATE grinding is literally impossible.. leves give the worst xp imaginable and dungeons give you basically nothing. Without story quests to carry you in that good exp, leveling other clases on 1 character without the FATE exp would be horrible. When you guys try to level another class on your first character you will understand, otherwise leave FATEs alone.

All I see from the people yelling "nerf fates" is people wanting to force others to play like they want them to. Taking away fates and making people level through dungeons isn't going to make bad players good. You're always going to get those bad players who don't know what they are doing no matter what. You just need to be a competent person and you'll learn how to play your class by 50.

How ever you like to play, do yourself a favor, find other like minded people and play with them. You'll have a lot more fun that way.

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Originally Posted by Fournierrr

Are you kidding me? If there were no FATEs they would need to introduce a banking system for your alts cause you would have to make them. Leveling a second class/job without FATE grinding is literally impossible.. leves give the worst xp imaginable and dungeons give you basically nothing. Without story quests to carry you in that good exp, leveling other clases on 1 character without the FATE exp would be horrible. When you guys try to level another class on your first character you will understand, otherwise leave FATEs alone.

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This is exactly the problem with fates. Nothing else gives anywhere near the exp of fates, and they're basically the ONLY way to level classes not your main. Really dumb.

FATEs needs to be NERFED... The Xp or the frequency...

They should either reduce the amount of EXP given or reduce the frequency at which they appear.

Stop it... just stop.
FATE's are fine, it only seems broken right now because on non-legacy servers everyone is rushing to level cap.
So you would rather have those supposedly bad players in dungeon groups with you?
When you have to or want to level another class, you will be glad that FATES are the way they are. Stop trying to push your playstyle on to everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Fournierrr

Are you kidding me? If there were no FATEs they would need to introduce a banking system for your alts cause you would have to make them. Leveling a second class/job without FATE grinding is literally impossible.. leves give the worst xp imaginable and dungeons give you basically nothing. Without story quests to carry you in that good exp, leveling other clases on 1 character without the FATE exp would be horrible. When you guys try to level another class on your first character you will understand, otherwise leave FATEs alone.

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What a load of shit. Just because you cant hit 50 in a day and a half hardly means it's impossible to level.

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Originally Posted by Acoustik

All I see from the people yelling "nerf fates" is people wanting to force others to play like they want them to. Taking away fates and making people level through dungeons isn't going to make bad players good.

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It would stop them to get a high level. If you know do level 50 dungeons there are so many bad people out there who do not even know how to heal people in your party r have under leveled gear. If they would not even get this far you would not have the problem people right now have. It is almost impossible to find decent people with the duty finder so people right now do not even try to use it for stuff like Primals or the level 50 dungeons.

Just get in a good FC and ditch the duty finder for the end game...

FATEs, and Public Quests in general are the borderline worst thing to happen to the MMORPG genre.


You don't even have to group up to get full benefit from them, every zone is lagged to hell and back from HORDES of XP hungry players rushing from one end of the map to the other, AND once everyone is satisfied with their characters the FATEs themselves will be all but abandoned.

The very nature of the public quest means that you really NEVER have to interact with the community to progress in the game. It sounds nice on paper. Everyone participates, and EVERYONE gets something from it. But it's not. No one communicates, no one groups up, and this kills the community.

I wasn't even in a group the first time we killed Behemoth. It was just HUNDREDS of people zerging an honestly easy boss.

If you ask me, FATEs should be nerfed hard. FATEs should be those little optional things you do during an ACTUAL quest. Not the meat and potatoes of the content. I don't even feel like leveling another class to cap, because this content is BORING. I bought an MMO. Grouping up and interacting with people is the NAME OF THE GAME. All of this solo, and parallel cooperation isn't what the genre is about! It's about meeting people and doing stuff together. There isn't nearly enough ACTUAL group content in the game to justify this even being an MMO.

It's basically a lobby for the Dungeon Finder, and FATE zerg. On some level, I wouldn't even mind the FATE system, but the content is EASY. There's no challenge. I can understand the regular kill quest fates being a little on the simple side. But you have these Notorious Monster FATEs that are just DULL. These guys should be leaving a trail of bodies and tears everywhere they go, but most of them just auto attack whatever is pissing it off the most and occasionally AOE. These guys need a complete overhaul, if you ask me. They should be some of the hardest leveling content in the game. I can SOLO these guys on my GLASS CANNON MAGE CHARACTER. This kind of BRAINLESS content is WHY World of Warcraft is bleeding subscriptions, and why I stopped subbing myself!

If you ask me, XP chaining should be the most efficient way to level in the entire game. Period.

"B-But... That's j-just grinding!"

At least you're grinding with other people. At least it's requires SOME communication to burst down mobs in 10 seconds, every time, once you reach a 5 chain. The leveling process in these games should feel a little monotonous. It should feel grueling and hellish. It's ALL about the journey. It's all about MAKING IT. And when you MAKE IT. It feels so much better. XP Chaining should be the most efficient, because if it isn't, why even have it in the game AT ALL. I mean god damnit. Why even have this system?

FATEs suck. They're easy, they give too much reward for something you just have to walk up to, with no strategy and just hit one button to get the maximum benefit. I can sit in FATEs all day and cast SCATHE at least once on every enemy and get a gold ranking. That's BOLLOCKS. That's BORING. That needs to DIE.

An MMO where you aren't forced to group up and learn your class is CANCER. It breeds BAD players. This game is CANCER.

Yoshi needs to go back into the last 2-3 months of 1.0 and return all exp to they way it was there and nerf fates... when i can get a level 40 leve and increase that level by 2 (highest level of a member in group) then increase the difficulty from one to five (so I need a full party). Maybe people will learn how to play their class. Also this would bring back skill chains. You know, group up with 4-8 people and just kill groups of monsters 5-8 levels above you and your party in quick chains to gain massive experience. In 1.0 i leved my WHM and BLM from 42-50 in a matter of hours with skill chains...

Just curious but how come people want things to go back to the way they were in 1.0? The whole reason we have 2.0 is because that game was a disaster overall.

I don't want to sit there doing FATES for dozens of levels on every character either but I'd rather see other options added as opposed to just crippling one of the ways. Add a ton more quests, increase exp from monsters, add more exp to leves, make more repeatable quests, there are a lot of options they should be looking at. I'm sure plenty of people would be happy to ditch fate grinding if they had better options.

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An MMO where you aren't forced to group up and learn your class is CANCER. It breeds BAD players. This game is CANCER.

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Too long I didn't bother quote it all from you.

FATE need nerf yes. It need a whole lot of nerf and fixes. But FATE is not bad. It never was, the system is not wrong, the player is.

And please, tell me how exactly does FATE ruin the player?

People will learn, and if they choose to start learning at lv 50, then it's their choice, it's not yours. Be patience and take your time teaching them, instead of swearing all over just because he is new and making mistake.

Take WoW for example, FATE is not even in there. People would still skipping dungeon and use RAF buff to lv 90 and do dungeon.

Don't force your opinion onto the game. Forcing people to group up is also bad, the /say is there, we don't have to be in a party to communicate. How did you even come up with this.

Why are the FATE haters not taking into account the fact that there are multiple jobs to be lvl'd, you can run out of story quests, and clear your map of quests. This leaves you with almost nothing but job quests, job monster hunt book pages, leves and hests (3 allowances a day, caps at 99), dungeon runs (30+ in que unless you're a tank or heals) and you only get full exp in a successful group, and FATEs.

The FATEs are fine.

If people can't read the skill descriptions to figure out how and what to do; and learn how to properly play their jobs, removing or nerfing FATEs will not somehow transform them into good players. Like any game, there will be good players and there will be bad ones.

Fate "haters" are pointing out that FATEs require absolutely no coordination or skill.. you can literally press one button and the exp gain from them eclipses dungeon runs which definitely require more from the player.

Quests, job monster hunting, leves, hests, dungeon runs.. ALL require more input from the player than fates but as you and others point out they just are not worth doing when we have the path of least resistance for leveling being fate grinding.

The answer isn't "it's fine" though. The game needs to reward time and risk which fates do neither of. Nerf them and buff the other methods of gaining experience. That or the fates themselves need their challenge rating increased drastically so they require you to do more than hit the 1 key or whatever your AoE is bound to.

I think FATEs are really good for leveling, but I'll agree with OP - it kills the whole purpose of RPGs. You're just mindlessly grinding. At some point I felt guilty, so I just went and did all my quests. I have no regrets, there are good quests out there. I've heardi n FATEs that some people even skip their main story to just 'get it over with'. It's really a shame, as the story is good and you're just missing out, not getting into the game itself.

I'm sure there is a way to balance out the quests and FATEs.

I wish players didn't lone wolf it all the time but that's what COD has tought them muliplayer games r about stats and showing off not team playing or enjoying the company of others while achieveing the same goal SO SAD

If they just nerfed them or limited them then it'd be fine. I grind fates sometimes, but for the most part I advance through the story and/or do dungeons frequently. The ridiculous zerg does get insanely annoying. Not to mention the 45 minute-1 hour wait one needs to endure with the df makes it even more frustrating.

You also get players who don't even know how to play their classes because all they do is grind fates. I used the df for a dungeon the other day and got a tank who thought all he had to do was charge in. He had no idea how to build hate. All he did was mindlessly charge in and, well, that ended quite badly. :(

Either nerf them or limit how many fates pop a day.