These forums becoming unbearable?

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Originally Posted by Abriael

But at least for me the forum has become much more bearable since a few days, for a single reason that I'll let you guess. :D

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....rofl?

XDD

Agreed!

I don't hate whining and hating, but the one thing I do hate is people with no imagination trying to call the shots.

"Well FFXI did it this way..."

"FF7 did it this way..."

"WoW did it like so..."

Get a brain people!

ima agree with op. And please stop debating in here, making the thread be off topic, debating about the fighting :3 Everyone in general is attack each other ve the topic, using post counts, not playing, etc etc to make their point mor right. That is called mudslinging. And that does need to stop. A lot of peoples post do have an angery hostil tone.

It is a game guys, we don't need all this drama, fighting, mudslinging over it. We are no longer discussing the game, but fighting with each other.

for example getting mad @ someone for posting
"don't expect cs, they take a long time to do" is a bit much, blowing up at then for
"not knowing about it" it stupid. Maybe they know more then you think, or maybe you infsct don't really know. But that is beside the point. Point is anyone who bought ffxiv can post here. Everyone has a right to an opinion if someone makes in error insomething don't get mad, fix and explain the error calmly. Everyone, playing or not, wants a fun popular game.
so lets just make up ok.

Criticism is valuable whether it's for or against your ideas. Debate is important to have or we might as well have Tanaka back. While I feel that a lot of people on these forums (thinking of two particular people with 1k+ posts) are waaaaaaay too involved and get way too sensitive about things.

Debate needs to continue but it needs to be constructive, when we get to people fighting for no reason then that's when threads should be locked. I wouldn't go as far as to say opening the forums is a mistake (as someone said earlier), rather the lack of moderation is a mistake. Mods do their jobs, but I feel they are holding back too much, I know the community is sensitive but by allowing the forums to become a warzone you create an atmosphere where people with valuable opinions or ideas are afraid to post them in fear of getting flamed.

I've reported a lot of posts, and they do actually get deleted much of the time. I would recommend anyone finding flammatory content or offensive posts to report them with the little '!' on the bottom left side of the post. If posts get reported then mods will look at them, I know they do.

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Originally Posted by YUGON

....rofl?

XDD

Agreed!

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You, sir, win the teddy bear.

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Originally Posted by MaxWinter

To op- I just want say not all old final fantasy 11 players want the game to be like final fantasy 11

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Exactly. I'm an old FFXI player, and I played it more than any other MMORPG (besides DAOC). Yet, I can recognize that FFXI was designed 8 years ago, for the market as it was 8 years ago. It wouldn't fit today's market, and in any case it's time for something fresh.

i got two words for people.

happy cakes

if you feel you like your going to post something you may regreat think of this word and don't.

Overstating what is on your mind or being TOO honest is what is wrong.

You don't need to spread gossip or slander other posters.

Like ave I think you went too far in bringing up "other posters"

my suggestion we have an interuduction thread and learn about each other. Instead of reading how they post and paint a false picture about a person. Don't judge a book by its cover. A person could be nice and you wouldn't know because of a post made on a bad day, and your forever paint them to be a "troll".

Like yes, i do call ppl that on a post by post basis.If they being rude in a post i will "calmly" say it in hope they see how rudw it was and maybe edit it for not being rude. But I don't think they are a troll forever. I but 99% of you are nice people. :) And I wouldn't know that just by your posts.

Post counts don't have anything to do with whether someone's opinion is valid or not.

Anyway... on topic, here...

I'm considering staying away from these forums for good. Maybe I'll check in and out if there's updates and dev responses on things being discussed. lol
The sheer amount of unwarranted self-importance, whining, and repeat threads is driving me INSANE. This forum community is amongst some of the worst I've seen in years. At the very least people could look through the other threads before making a new one. Just today alone I saw 3 or 4 threads about "hardcore" players and what they want. The worst part is, the whining isn't even constructive anymore. It's just ridiculous. Ugh.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

i got two words for people.

happy cakes

if you feel you like your going to post something you may regreat think of this word and don't.

Overstating what is on your mind or being TOO honest is what is wrong.

You don't need to spread gossip or slander other posters.

Like ave I think you went too far in bringing up "other posters"

my suggestion we have an interuduction thread and learn about each other. Instead of reading how they post and paint a false picture about a person. Don't judge a book by its cover. A person could be nice and you wouldn't know because of a post made on a bad day, and your forever paint them to be a "troll".

Like yes, i do call ppl that on a post by post basis.If they being rude in a post i will "calmly" say it in hope they see how rudw it was and maybe edit it for not being rude. But I don't think they are a troll forever. I but 99% of you are nice people. :) And I wouldn't know that just by your posts.

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thank you mr. i don't even play the game

Look enough noting casual or hardcore say does not matter there doing it anyways.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Everyone can rest assured that the raid dungeons and content that we're planning to implement in the future will feature not only tough battles, but also challenging and exhilarating bosses. The nitty-gritty details are tied into the future rollout of Grand Companies which we'll be announcing the juicy particulars of at a later date. I hope you're all looking forward to it with bated breath!

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

I don't hate whining and hating, but the one thing I do hate is people with no imagination trying to call the shots.

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Since there's nothing new under the sun...









rip off all the good ideas instead of the bad ones.

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Originally Posted by Ava

Mods do their jobs, but I feel they are holding back too much, I know the community is sensitive but by allowing the forums to become a warzone you create an atmosphere where people with valuable opinions or ideas are afraid to post them in fear of getting flamed.

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Mods have erased like four of my threads and suspended my account just as often. I think mods are quite active, myself.

A Majority of problems on these forums result from people misunderstanding posts, and being wayyyyy too sensitive.

An evolution of Final Fantasy XI does not mean a clone of Final Fantasy XI... I feel that FFXIV's progression is an evolution from FFXI i just think they are going from one end of the extreme to the other.

I want my difficult missions back! when i first did the rank 3 mission shortly after the game released, i remembered thinking damn that was epic! I have yet to have an epic encounter in FFXIV :(

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Since there's nothing new under the sun...

rip off all the good ideas instead of the bad ones.

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That's terrible advice LOL. Developers should pretend that no other games exist and then develop their dreams from there, only looking to other games as pragmatists to see how certain things were implemented. They shouldn't look to other games first and then blatantly rip off ideas that they were too unimaginative to think of themselves.

The reason for this is because when developers think of an idea - that's if they think of an idea at all - they are usually limited by the technology at their disposal when implementing it. The first MMOs ever released didn't have the tools that todays developers have, and yet Ultima Online (for example) implemented player-made housing, mount-taming, and many other novel features. They had nothing to look to for inspiration, and that helped them make a good game, based solely on their own imaginations. But their ideas were limited to the technology of the era, and so the idead that implementated were limited. Nowadays, developers have the ability to do better. But they will never be able to do better if they look only at the implementation of the idea and then imitate it rather than reimagine it.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

The reason for this is because when developers think of an idea - that's if they think of an idea at all - they are usually limited by the technology at their disposal when implementing it. The first MMOs ever released didn't have the tools that todays developers have, and yet Ultima Online (for example) implemented player-made housing, mount-taming, and many other novel features. They had nothing to look to for inspiration, and that helped them make a good game, based solely on their own imaginations. But their ideas were limited to the technology of the era, and so the idead that implementated were limited. Nowadays, developers have the ability to do better. But they will never be able to do better if they look only at the implementation of the idea and then imitate it rather than reimagine it.

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Ok so that's the idealist soapbox. In reality there is no new technology here. 3d? Oooh. MMO concepts are a limited resource, they are NOT boundless unwritten worlds limited only by imagination. For the concept to fit the market and genre, it has to be addictive and time consuming. Basic human psychology limits what kinds of activities that entails. The best and easiest concepts get tapped quickly, and then after a maintenance phase the field starts to become stale if it's just not that great of an idea to begin with.

The goal is to not revolutionize and revolutionize forever, or die. The goal is to become such a good fundamental idea that people will always want the product. Like Coke. Coke needs no revolution. No innovation. The product has enough inherent value to stay forever as it is.

If MMOs don't, they'll just contract or be perpetually tried and burnt out on by new 14-22 year olds each generation. If you're tired of MMOs, you're probably done with MMOs. Don't be expecting them to change much. WoW, Rift, FFXI...that's about as good as it gets folks. This is the product. It's either good enough or it isn't. It's not a diamond in the rough any more.

I'm really tired of all the bickering, when the forums first started I enjoyed reading information people had to share and if anyone could help another player. Developers would look at our post and see positive feedback, change things here and there but now I think they slightly regret putting these forums. It's down right punishment for people who have to read these forums even though it's there job to do so but to read all the negativity it's really heartbreaking and i'd hate to have that job. The development team are doing there job and so is Yoshi-P, the Hatred probably now outweighs the hatred players had for Tanaka. People want FFXI, I played it loved it but this isnt FFXI.. Every Final Fantasy title Varies and doesn't stay the same there are key elements but it's a brand new game. There's now a rivalry between casuals and Hardcore gamers but there's a point where we have to draw the line. I'm a hardcore player but i also have other responsibilities and if I can't get a certain item well I have to understand that i'm unable to because of certain constraints. if as a casual player I can't reach so and so then move on in a MMO there's always other things to do. Most casuals don't have the level of skill to do some of the hardcore end game stuff and some do, but in the end you have to realize that a MMO you have to spend time to experience the game itself. You can pick up any game in-store or online and play it through and realize you can either beat the game move on or explore the harder stuff such as puzzles or Foes that are over powered that require time spent and items gathered to beat it or just for fun. I'm not trying to wage war against the casuals or hardcore players but to come to an understanding. Hardcore can get theirs and so can casuals but you can't expect to get the same treatment as hardcores because they put in the work, no arguments about they have no lives because a majority do. Casuals can get same awesome gear but maybe of a different variety remember equipment really doesn't make a player awesome it's their level of skill that succeeds eventually. I love this game for what its worth and I know who is a casual player and who is a hardcore player and I still manage to say hello to them every time i see them. Hopefully this game will meet the needs of both types of players.. when I go back to school I know wont be able to achieve much as other hardcore gamers such as myself and when I see them I wont be bitter, I will congratulate them maybe and move on because in the future Eozorea will have alot more for me to do and will discover them at my own pace.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Ok so that's the idealist soapbox. In reality there is no new technology here. 3d? Oooh. MMO concepts are a limited resource, they are NOT boundless unwritten worlds limited only by imagination. For the concept to fit the market and genre, it has to be addictive and time consuming. Basic human psychology limits what kinds of activities that entails. The best and easiest concepts get tapped quickly, and then after a maintenance phase the field starts to become stale if it's just not that great of an idea to begin with.

The goal is to not revolutionize and revolutionize forever, or die. The goal is to become such a good fundamental idea that people will always want the product. Like Coke. Coke needs no revolution. No innovation. The product has enough inherent value to stay forever as it is.

If MMOs don't, they'll just contract or be perpetually tried and burnt out on by new 14-22 year olds each generation. If you're tired of MMOs, you're probably done with MMOs. Don't be expecting them to change much. WoW, Rift, FFXI...that's about as good as it gets folks. This is the product. It's either good enough or it isn't. It's not a diamond in the rough any more.

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And that's the pessimist's view. It's a sad indictment on the genre's potential if WoW and FFXI are the best it can do. Fortunately, we are seeing games like Guild Wars 2 , ArcheAge, and TERA innovating and adding new ideas to the genre.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

And that's the pessimist's view. It's a sad indictment on the genre's potential if WoW and FFXI are the best it can do. Fortunately, we are seeing games like Guild Wars 2 , ArcheAge, and TERA innovating and adding new ideas to the genre.

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Yep there's a ton you can do with the genre, imagination and resources is all you really need imo Companies like to stick with what they know sells cause money's a big part of development(Not pointing to 14 in any way with this statement LoL). Luckly games like the ones you mentioned are finally being innovative which is what the genre needs at this time!!! I'm a big FF11 fan as much as the next person but times are changing and I don't really want another of the same game, but I DO want alot of what 11 did good with. Which includes but is not limited to - difficulty, class differentiation, story focused pve game, deep strategic battle system, party focused content, pretty much all FF jobs you can think of (Choosing your job was very specific and personal and eventually felt like it was a part of you), which leads to caring about you're character through immersion. List goes on and on, just wish they wouldn't have been so stuck up and moved away from EVERYTHING they knew their customers and fans loved xD

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Originally Posted by Danniedeadboy

I'm really tired of all the bickering, when the forums first started I enjoyed reading information people had to share and if anyone could help another player. Developers would look at our post and see positive feedback, change things here and there but now I think they slightly regret putting these forums. It's down right punishment for people who have to read these forums even though it's there job to do so but to read all the negativity it's really heartbreaking and i'd hate to have that job. The development team are doing there job and so is Yoshi-P, the Hatred probably now outweighs the hatred players had for Tanaka. People want FFXI, I played it loved it but this isnt FFXI.. Every Final Fantasy title Varies and doesn't stay the same there are key elements but it's a brand new game. There's now a rivalry between casuals and Hardcore gamers but there's a point where we have to draw the line. I'm a hardcore player but i also have other responsibilities and if I can't get a certain item well I have to understand that i'm unable to because of certain constraints. if as a casual player I can't reach so and so then move on in a MMO there's always other things to do. Most casuals don't have the level of skill to do some of the hardcore end game stuff and some do, but in the end you have to realize that a MMO you have to spend time to experience the game itself. You can pick up any game in-store or online and play it through and realize you can either beat the game move on or explore the harder stuff such as puzzles or Foes that are over powered that require time spent and items gathered to beat it or just for fun. I'm not trying to wage war against the casuals or hardcore players but to come to an understanding. Hardcore can get theirs and so can casuals but you can't expect to get the same treatment as hardcores because they put in the work, no arguments about they have no lives because a majority do. Casuals can get same awesome gear but maybe of a different variety remember equipment really doesn't make a player awesome it's their level of skill that succeeds eventually. I love this game for what its worth and I know who is a casual player and who is a hardcore player and I still manage to say hello to them every time i see them. Hopefully this game will meet the needs of both types of players.. when I go back to school I know wont be able to achieve much as other hardcore gamers such as myself and when I see them I wont be bitter, I will congratulate them maybe and move on because in the future Eozorea will have alot more for me to do and will discover them at my own pace.

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I have no idea what the quoted texts says.
However, I wholeheartedly endorse every last word of it.

It takes dedication to write like that and i am a huge fan of dedication.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Good post, I blame the mods they need to be more aggressive and less tolerant.

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ha. i have seen some very tolerant actions from mods, but i have seen just as many opinions deleted and reported as tos violations that were absolutely hillarious. they would tos violate people for taking up for another poster and asking people to not be rude to them(don't tell me is hasn't happened because i have seen and have the email to prove it). the thing is it depends on who you are on these forums and who you agree with whether it is considered ok or not.

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Originally Posted by Danniedeadboy

I'm really tired of all the bickering, when the forums first started I enjoyed reading information people had to share and if anyone could help another player. Developers would look at our post and see positive feedback, change things here and there but now I think they slightly regret putting these forums. It's down right punishment for people who have to read these forums even though it's there job to do so but to read all the negativity it's really heartbreaking and i'd hate to have that job. The development team are doing there job and so is Yoshi-P, the Hatred probably now outweighs the hatred players had for Tanaka. People want FFXI, I played it loved it but this isnt FFXI.. Every Final Fantasy title Varies and doesn't stay the same there are key elements but it's a brand new game. There's now a rivalry between casuals and Hardcore gamers but there's a point where we have to draw the line. I'm a hardcore player but i also have other responsibilities and if I can't get a certain item well I have to understand that i'm unable to because of certain constraints. if as a casual player I can't reach so and so then move on in a MMO there's always other things to do. Most casuals don't have the level of skill to do some of the hardcore end game stuff and some do, but in the end you have to realize that a MMO you have to spend time to experience the game itself. You can pick up any game in-store or online and play it through and realize you can either beat the game move on or explore the harder stuff such as puzzles or Foes that are over powered that require time spent and items gathered to beat it or just for fun. I'm not trying to wage war against the casuals or hardcore players but to come to an understanding. Hardcore can get theirs and so can casuals but you can't expect to get the same treatment as hardcores because they put in the work, no arguments about they have no lives because a majority do. Casuals can get same awesome gear but maybe of a different variety remember equipment really doesn't make a player awesome it's their level of skill that succeeds eventually. I love this game for what its worth and I know who is a casual player and who is a hardcore player and I still manage to say hello to them every time i see them. Hopefully this game will meet the needs of both types of players.. when I go back to school I know wont be able to achieve much as other hardcore gamers such as myself and when I see them I wont be bitter, I will congratulate them maybe and move on because in the future Eozorea will have alot more for me to do and will discover them at my own pace.

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Awesome, this is what MMOS are about ! Great post dude!

I have decided after today i wont be putting any more input into what i want from the game in these boards at least in the short term intill the changes happen to this game.
I am enjoying the game as it is and know things will change , i still hope to reply to all polls they do but dont feel my input on forumns is helping anyone.
Im not even that bad but i think but maybe my views about the game may be conflicting with others so i wont post on here , well force myself not too at least.
I will still be reading the boards and hope the community will support the dev team.

Please in game if see me feel free to invite me to party as i not see many from the linkshells i was in.

I may post few times but it will hopeful be about not what i want see in the game but about what i enjoying thats already in the game.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

That's terrible advice LOL. Developers should pretend that no other games exist and then develop their dreams from there, only looking to other games as pragmatists to see how certain things were implemented. They shouldn't look to other games first and then blatantly rip off ideas that they were too unimaginative to think of themselves.

The reason for this is because when developers think of an idea - that's if they think of an idea at all - they are usually limited by the technology at their disposal when implementing it. The first MMOs ever released didn't have the tools that todays developers have, and yet Ultima Online (for example) implemented player-made housing, mount-taming, and many other novel features. They had nothing to look to for inspiration, and that helped them make a good game, based solely on their own imaginations. But their ideas were limited to the technology of the era, and so the idead that implementated were limited. Nowadays, developers have the ability to do better. But they will never be able to do better if they look only at the implementation of the idea and then imitate it rather than reimagine it.

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In that case rip off UO. ;)

Innovation can be good like the DS or it can be junk like the virtual boy. It's a double edged sword and it can help you or it can hurt you if you decide to innovate in the wrong direction.

Likewise there's times when other games are doing it wrong and times where you shouldn't reinvent the wheel. If you want markets, eve's market system was really nice and it allowed things like trading from one town to the next to be a real profession. If you want a dye system for armor, I've really love what GW2 is doing.

Finally new ideas are difficult to do and make popular. ATITD is an innovative idea for an MMO, but I haven't played it. I've heard of new games being developed to revolutionize MMOs but they tend to either be gutted or turned into vaporware. Also people who are fans of one idea will hate anything that's different than what they are used to. For example, I've suggested on the forums to get rid of skills designed mostly to manage hate: ie to make group combat about kiting and proper positioning... it didn't get much traction. Yet for just about every MMO I can think of, there is a tank class and he's got a skill that draws AI attention. The thing is, those skills were originally developed before sophisticated 3d interfaces, and despite it being nearly 30 years later, a same old cliche design is still in there... which is an example of ripping off a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

In that case rip off UO. ;)

Innovation can be good like the DS or it can be junk like the virtual boy. It's a double edged sword and it can help you or it can hurt you if you decide to innovate in the wrong direction.

Likewise there's times when other games are doing it wrong and times where you shouldn't reinvent the wheel. If you want markets, eve's market system was really nice and it allowed things like trading from one town to the next to be a real profession. If you want a dye system for armor, I've really love what GW2 is doing.

Finally new ideas are difficult to do and make popular. ATITD is an innovative idea for an MMO, but I haven't played it. I've heard of new games being developed to revolutionize MMOs but they tend to either be gutted or turned into vaporware. Also people who are fans of one idea will hate anything that's different than what they are used to. For example, I've suggested on the forums to get rid of skills designed mostly to manage hate: ie to make group combat about kiting and proper positioning... it didn't get much traction. Yet for just about every MMO I can think of, there is a tank class and he's got a skill that draws AI attention. The thing is, those skills were originally developed before sophisticated 3d interfaces, and despite it being nearly 30 years later, a same old cliche design is still in there... which is an example of ripping off a bad idea.

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Yeah exactly.

Just look at Final Fantasy games in general. The whole battle system is heavily reliant on stats. But sats don't reflect reality. Stats were originally the best that game designers could do though if they wanted to reflect reality and progression. And yet even though nowadays game developers are able to reflect reality in more reality-reflecting ways, instead they fall back to the stat-based systems. Enmity-controlling skills are a perfect example of that.

Great thread man! This forum has really become unbearable, far more unbearable than the actual game.
When I was still playing Star Wars Galaxies the situation was worse because a great and unique game was turned into less enjoyable game. The so called combat upgrade made the game unoriginal and the "new game enhancements" made it even more dull. The biggest mistakes were not listening to the playerbase.
This game is not even a year old and the developers are showing some real dedication towards make this a successful game. They are even paying attention to what most of the community wants and what not.
I find that really brave of them because so far this community is acting like a spoiled brat. Every few days some player makes a new thread about how they want their money back or how much they suffer by playing this game and not having all the other stuff from other mmo's. How they want this game to be exactly like FFXI and how the developers are doing nothing at all.
People aren't even considering what it takes (in terms of time, thought and work) to implement big changes in a game like this, or what the state of their country is in. They expect them to be wizards who can change the game in a whiff to something magical.
I'm not defending that the state the game is in is something to be proud of, but repeating all the bad aspects of this game day by day is not going to help the developers or the community as a whole. It is only making it worse because no matter how good a game can be if the community sucks than the game will suck too.

Well taking the OP's point when he began this thread, I do see what he is saying.

We all have our opinions on what is right/wrong with this game currently and for the future. The main problem in these forums is that sometimes we get carried away with that.

Discussion and sharing of viewpoints is wonderful, that is how people come together with ideas on how to solve situations. What is not so wonderful is when discussion and compramise turns into childish antics. Unfortunately, that does seem to be a symptom of these discussion forums.

Consider this when posting. Of course, you have your opinions, and it is great to share them. However, consider your wording. Could your words upset someone, could you construct your argument in a more positive manner? It takes but a few minutes to re-read what you have typed before you press "send". Why not think of those few minutes to consider if you should "press the rewind button" on what you say.

After all, the pen is mightier than the sword. Would you be careless with a sword? I didnt think so :)

Kimiko x

SE have been very quiet lately, so when people don't have anything new to talk about, they turn on eachother and argue instead. It doesn't help that the stuff SE do tell us about is so extremely unexciting. If they want the forums to be buzzing with excitement and anticipation, they need to give us a little more than what they've given us so far.

I'm sure it will calm down as soon as they give use some proper updates about what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Phrozen

thank you mr. i don't even play the game

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made me lol IRL :D

Well tbh, some of these threads can become very heated, and I also read on ZAM as well, and it can be volitile sometimes there too. Yeah are the threads here (and possibly else where) becoming a bit much to deal with, yeah, however, you just have to take people's opinions with a grain of salt because of the many things you mentioned in your post OP (all of which I agree with, however, I think I would have tried to put it all in friendly terms as to not light a fire under people's bottoms like you may have :D)

lol

This was quite entertaining... Synopsis of the OP:

"I think people crying on both sides of the argument are pathetic. But no, wait... really I'm just saying that those crying about things that I don't agree with are pathetic. I also think that people who play a lot are crying too much and need to go get a life and stop posting their opinions (great ASSumption there OP)."

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Originally Posted by Visch

XI isn't still there. How about you shut up and learn what you're talking about before telling someone else what to do.

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LOL! You are hoping for SE to make the new game more like the old game was but no longer is because SE changed it?

You already lost.

Edit:
Click me!

I only find the General Discussion unbearable because either the people who post on here don't even play the game or they play so little that they don't even know what they are taking about. How can you ask to change something if you have never even experienced it in the game?...

I'm glad SE made these forums. I think the player base is much better off having them.
With that out of the way, I agree with most everything the OP says.

Totally agree with you.. this forum full of crying babies..