This game has WAY bigger issues than some server problems.

Damn, forgot all about Aegis Boon.. that would be great.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Sorry, but I'm not going to stop opposing people who want to derive accomplishment from things that will adversely affect others for the sake of their own egos.

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Then we can be opposition buddies.
Let's hate hug.

I like dangerous exploration. It's one of the thrills I get from gaming. You may think a dangerous overworld adversely affects a player base and their fun, but having a soft world adversely affects me. So no matter what, someone's getting screwed and I hope you understand that I prefer it not be me.

Agree with OP, +1.

Also, what's with stats now? VIT = HP only is so ridiculous, it really makes me just feel like I'm railroaded into melding these bland stats (or mostly useless off-stats) to cap and just waiting for the next piece with more of the same. I'd like to see some more variety as well, but I'm willing to overlook it for now because I like the new shields :D

I hope that with the P4 beta being so short and the next update coming (relatively) soon they'll realize that maybe people aren't really looking for stat boosts of the simplest kind. They could be laying a very basic groundwork for something bigger, but saying that is a big leap of faith I doubt I'd take at this point. Even worse, this could be actually what people want and I... I just don't understand the world.

Even the most basic layer of complexity if added would really improve this game, and I really don't care how it comes (although like I said VIT should be physical mitigation imho, pet peeve). Just make it so I don't have to climb a straight statistical ladder, I can climb a tree, and branch out my class a bit more (see what I did there?).

With that said, I'll be subbing 180 days right away anyway. ^^

SE spend vast amounts of time, energy and money to rebuild FFXIV and the game image. They sent press releases, talked to community leaders, promised the community a great game and did so much to try to build faith back into their product. To their credit, I think it worked - people are/were listening and waiting.

And on the weekend of the early access, all hell broke loose. They risk losing, or have already lost, significant amounts of community faith because of this lobby/instance server debacle. We can debate the merits of in-game items and tactics, but there is nothing more threatening to FFXIV at this point in it's rebirth than the massive server instability for the entire NA/EU cluster. If they don't act quickly, and drastically, they are going to lose so much of that faith they worked so hard trying to reclaim.

Op you're right, the game is way to freaking easy right at low level that everything seem artificial, the skill, equipment, quest... there no point to do these because i can breeze through everything.

Only challenging part i got was lvl 20(or 25 don't remember) glad story and the lvl 20 dungeon whit agro everywhere and Fun sub-boss. Other then that i just Flash/Provoke all the time without really paying attention to the healing and HP....

And Fate is a really bad idea, zerg fest that just spam AOE and don't see what i'm doing...

Agreed that it's way too easy. There's no getting around that. I'm certain that even if this was the first video game I had played in my entire life I'd be of the same opinion.

However, I'm still enjoying the game alot. I'm hoping endgame won't disappoint, I'm still only level 20.

If it does, I'm out

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Originally Posted by Riposte

...The design of FATEs are crumbling under the weight of two+ dozen players spamming AoEs and getting gold medals for not thinking at all...

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This right here is so awfully true. To get a gold medal in most FATEs all you need to do is get several hits (several being 6 or more) and bam...you get a gold star. People with AOEs think they have to kill every last one of the enemy to get a gold star, while I can kill 3 and get the same exp, gold and seals as they did for far less work. Not to mention I'm not killing everyone's framerate by doing a one-handbutton mash in one spot while I drink a pepsi.

Agree with you OP

This game has very little challenge involved

The skills are poorly done ( I can only speak for the CNJ class though )

And the loot is as about exciting as a slap in the face

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Originally Posted by Riposte

Now this thread isn't about making the game more like FFXI or whatever. It is about design choices developers made that are hurting the game when looking at it from within the context of FFXIV: ARR.

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The problem is, that the problems of FF14 are some of its design choices, and those are deeply embedded into the game at this point. Making combat interesting will take months at the very least, making the UI more PC friendly will take months as well, provided SE actually acknowledge these things as problems, which they didn't do in beta, despite feedback being loud and clear. A release date had been set already long ago...

FF14 is essentially a hardcore game, that's what it's good at, but it's alienating players looking for this kind of experience with trying to appeal to people who never touched an MMO before. Shallow combat with boring, bad skill design, streamlined itemization, streamlined quests and events (those are OK with me, but they're streamlined nevertheless), lack of character customization, etc.. On top of that, one of the strong points of the game, which is the fact that it's really trying to tell a story, is buried by the lack of voiceovers in ALL quests, not just the main story line. I think it's safe to say that even players genuinely interested in FF lore will at some point just give up trying to read all the walls of text flying at them.

Finally, not really a design choice, but an economic one: no dedicated EU data center, forcing the whole of EU to play with 200ms latency upwards on NA realms. I consider this decision just plain dumb. It's a slap in the face for FF fans in Europe, especially since SE seem to try to get PvP going in FF14 at some point in the future.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I like dangerous exploration. It's one of the thrills I get from gaming. You may think a dangerous overworld adversely affects a player base and their fun, but having a soft world adversely affects me. So no matter what, someone's getting screwed and I hope you understand that I prefer it not be me.

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I'm rather quick to adapt, but I do know people like the aforementioned friend who paid good money for an expansion he ended up not getting anything out of. He knew his stuff when it came to combat but could get lost in a closet, while on /follow.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

We're talking in context of playing A Realm Reborn. You know... That game we talk about on these forums?

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Since you can't read between the lines: I find people who abuse and misuse the word "accomplishment" like the person I quoted in the context of minor parts of a game to be silly.

Seriously, go pick up Touhou 7 and try to break that world record. If you do, you've accomplished something. Round-abouting a lv80 pig with true sight only to see the pretty lake on the other side of the brush =/= accomplishment. It's a neat thing to find, but that's pretty much it.

Edit: Even better, go and get world-first clear of hardmode Coil of Bahamut. I'll let you gloat about your accomplishment because you'll actually have accomplishmed something then.

I'm having a blast in game. They took out the annoying time sinks. Now we can focus more on the content.

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Originally Posted by Raizen_Reyne

I agree 100%

Not only this but I have found the quests, main story quests etc to be very boring, dull and generic. People expect more from a Final Fantasy title and they expect much more from a game that is charging a monthly subscription fee.

I have wanted this game to succeed since 1.0 launch... I have wanted it to succeed so badly and after the game having a second chance I thought there is no way they can mess this up... but it seems they can and did... and it is too late to go back now..

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I beg to differ, I've found the story to be one of the game's strongest points. If you actually bother to read the quest text...

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Originally Posted by Danuvue

Why dont you just go ahead and delete your post right now, because it's clear you didn't read, or at least properly digest what the OP posted.
Just makes you look like a tool.

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As much as I hate that overly used word, "tool", and despise the people that spout it out, I'm inclined to boo-hoo him as well.

In regards to the OP, you've made good points and it pains me greatly to read them and think about misused or largely discarded potential from 1.23( arguably the peak of 1.0's redevelopment) in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

Items are boring

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I'd like to say that it's too early to decide that... but I haven't looked into theorycrafting the game too hard yet as it's only the 2nd day of EA. I find that the items feel exactly like they do in every other MMORPG that I've played. I feel as if items are fun for their cosmetics and their statistics feel like a gatekeeper to upper level content.

On a statistics standpoint, I've definitely started noticing the fact that I'm in level 15/20 gear for the most part while doing GC Leves at +4 recommended level and I should upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

They made quest battles too easy

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Honestly I'm not too sure about this point here. I enjoy the story quests simply because they are not a giant obstacle to the story. For reference, I loathed doing Maat to unlock my limits on some job classes. He was simply an RNG experience on some classes. Didn't get Chainspell or the Silence off on RDM? Welcome to try #100. In counterpoint, I could say that CoP was the single best storyline and gave me the greatest feeling of accomplishment in an MMORPG... but that is rose coloured glasses talking. Looking back, I would have much rather had more people be able to experience that story with me rather than discarding people along the way for the sake of completing "tough" content.

I feel as if the storyline is just right. It shouldn't be the extreme content, it should be a compelling storyline and they do it well.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

1) There is no sense of danger in the world, even in areas two dozen levels above your character.

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Do it without a mount. Your opinion will change. There are ways to challenge yourself.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

2) The design of FATEs are crumbling under the weight of two+ dozen players spamming AoEs and getting gold medals for not thinking at all.

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This is true and aggravating, but how would you design around it? It was the same in GW2 and Rift. AoE classes have an advantage in the multi-mob FATEs and lose nothing when it comes to the single-target FATEs. I feel as if it's a design problem with the FATE/Active Event/Rift system itself.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

3) This game is being molded in a way that ACTIVELY discourages servers from having a sense of community outside individual Free Companies (and perhaps, linkshells, but those are also falling to the wayside).

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This has not been my experience. I enjoy being a part of the Linkshell communities I am in. Also, the materia system actively encourages community between your dungeon runners and your crafters. It's been my experience thus far with crafting that you either have to be rich or love the crafting system to even want to level more than one craft to 50. Taking PUG as an example, one needs a Leathercrafter, Goldsmith, and Blacksmith at an appropriate level to meld materia onto your equipment. The Leathercrafter is fed ingredients by people that go out and hunt/kill mobs while Goldsmiths and Blacksmiths are fed by miners.

I feel like the way SE has handled the materia system will foster community, at least on the crafting side. It encourages you to get to know your server's crafters.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

4) Class/Job designs and individual actions are also very uninteresting.

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I agree with you for some classes, but not all. Gladiator definitely needs some love, same with Lancer.

However with that said, Pugilist is fun if you're trying to maximize it via positional DPS. It works out to BACK-FLANK-FLANK-BACK-BACK-FLANK as your main DPS combo along with juggling the timers on 2x DoTs (assuming you slot Fracture from MRD), not allowing Greased Lightning to fall off, and not allowing Twin Strike to fall off. All of this is by level 20. Some of my LSmates tell me that Archer is also interesting and gives a very similar experience to the proc-based classes from World of Warcraft.


In summary, while there are things that SE definitely should look at for future content updates I feel as if the game isn't all stormy clouds like the OP makes it out to be. While the OP does have good points in some areas I feel as if they are looking for negativity in others.

I notice most of the people agreeing with the OP's opinions, and they are opinions, are Legacy players. Look I get it, you guys enjoyed where FF14 was going, and that was to an early grave. 1.23 was not bringing a new population in, it was just attempting to stop the current hemorrhaging. ARR exists to appeal to the general masses and make money, and despite how many times you voice your disapproval of it, it is doing what it intended to do, draw more people. Your post might as well just be of the alphabet, because nothing you said is going to change anything (for that I am happy, but this is my opinion and it is just as valid as yours, not valid at all).

You want a grindcentric game? Okay, come on down to FFXI. I have been in FFXI since 2003, I have done the HNMLS thing, the COP thing, the Abyssea thing and so on and so forth. It has gotten a little old. I am more than thrilled with the route ARR went. I am no longer 19 and live with my mom and dad working 30 hours a week as a Game Stop assistant manager where my only responsibilities are my shiny sports car and if I want the cheeseburger at Denny's tonight or mozarella sticks. This game allows me to step into it, play and accomplish things and then turn it off when it is time for me to help my son with his homework and not worry about falling so far behind that sticking around is moot. And, here is the part you need to understand the most, there are more of my type than there are of your type and my type has the money (not saying you don't have a job or have money). We are the people who don't bat an eye to a 15.00 a month subscription for every other weekend use, chances are that our cards are not going to get lost or cancelled and we will be long time subscribers even if we are casual players and that translates to money, moolah, the cheese, the thing SE is after. They went the route you seemingly despise because of that and that alone.

Abilities can tweaked and retweaked and reworked through-out the life of the game. Even new ones added, you can turn to FFXI for prime proof of that. Heck they added Refresh nearly a year after JP release because Red Mage was so undesirable. Multiple DD class jobs got a litany of abilities through-out their tenure in the game. New spells added all the time, etc. You haven't even had a chance to truly explore these abilities in 2.0, so how about you do that, then write a novel filled with opinion?

Gear, really? You think any new MMO comes with OMFG awesome gear? Please. FFXI's AF was quickly put into the pile of useless crap after just about a year of game play. Heck most people don't even quest any of it anymore on their way from 1 to 99. It has no value. Sorry Legacy players, but just because you have the gear and deem it boring and worthless, doesn't mean it is. If you can stand there and seriously tell me you didn't expect this to happen while they work the new people into the game, then you have WAY bigger issues than I can help you with, namely the fact that you only care about yourself and your experience and not that of building this new potential community. Heck, they can go the route you want, and then when they bleed the scores of people that are so desperately needed to keep this afloat, you guys can all reminisce over your uber grind fests and full time job's worth of gear as you watch the cut-scene where Bahamut destroys Eorzea for good right before the servers go black forever.

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Originally Posted by Xo1o

*Insert long message here*

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In my opinion, you're looking at the glass not half empty but bone dry! I understand where you're coming from but...

As for the story quip, I'm quite used to Final Fantasy and reading... with little to no voice acting. I mean, if you've ever played SWTOR for a significant amount of time then you may or may not come to the realization that incessant voice acting can also be a bore, and that you might end up reading through the text and spacebaring through the voiced dialogue. I've read of some hard core roleplayers who really care for lore of all sorts finding voice acting to surprisingly become redundant after a 2nd or 3rd play through.

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Originally Posted by Destinova

They took out the annoying time sinks. Now we can focus more on the content.

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Oh man you are in for a surprise.

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Originally Posted by Evandis

*Too much rant to handle!!!*

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Hah. You must be new here...

Gear? Yes, really. In case you didn't realize this game isn't new... What the people are miffed about is the iconic appearing, so-called "artifact gear" is 3rd world in comparison to materia melded generic high level equipment.

Been that way since 1.20s(or was it 1.19? :D) and even more so now due to the inability to improve said gear and the debuffs to the gear sets, ie removal of stats. That *hopefully* won't be an issue when we finally obtain the oft-asked for vanity tab.

My biggest concern is the number of scathing reviews the game will get because of the combat. All the way from levels 1 to 50 you're mostly using the same 2-3 skills over and over and over with a couple others thrown in less frequently as you level up (most of them being altogether unnecessary). The game is going to get majorly bashed for this.

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Originally Posted by PotatoSalad

Hah. You must be new here...

Gear? Yes, really. In case you didn't realize this game isn't new... What the people are miffed about is the iconic appearing, so-called "artifact gear" is 3rd world in comparison to materia melded generic high level equipment.

Been that way since 1.20s(or was it 1.19? :D) and even more so now due to the inability to improve said gear and the debuffs to the gear sets, ie removal of stats. That *hopefully* won't be an issue when we finally obtain the oft-asked for vanity tab.

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Actually, no, not new. Just smart enough to realize that it hasn't even been a week.

I am going to agree with the OP too. The game is trying to cater towards NON MMO gamers in an attempt to get them to play an MMO. If you have 100 people standing around you all looking to do the same instance Why do you need to use the DF? Seriously if conversing with other people is that stressful to you maybe you need to stick to single player games. Hell I sent a person packing that wants an action packed FPS game and was not happy with FF and wanted FF to be design around what he wanted. MMOs today are becoming too mainstreamed just to make everyone happy, however in the end they are making no one happy then finding out they need to go F2P just to have some sort of player base because people will play for free. However Free players that will not spend a dime on the game will not be supporting development going forward because the publisher is not making money.

I'm neither going to agree or disagree with OP at the moment. I would like to say that this probably isn't a good time to be discussing the issues you brought up. I’m not just saying that just because SE currently has their hands full with more important issues and won’t see it right away. With so much toxicity in the forums right now, SE might assume that a number of the contributors to this thread aren’t thinking objectively. The negative feedback might get dismissed as post launch frustration QQ. If you really care about these issues and want to be heard, you might want to wait for the smoke to clear.

1.23 was on a roll, then they threw so much out. The combat being a big one, which i was loving, then i saw these dull stats on all the gear, then the removal of NMs and elemental wheel and "trash" monster design (removing the OPTION to camp grind if i please), then basically every other problem you mentioned. It hurts me because i like the game, but its showing its problems, ones that might be small, but will send it to an early grave.

come on SE, fix the servers, then add some depth back into your game.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I find people who abuse and misuse the word "accomplishment" like the person I quoted in the context of minor parts of a game to be silly.
Round-abouting a lv80 pig with true sight only to see the pretty lake on the other side of the brush =/= accomplishment.

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ac·com·plish·ment/əˈkämpliSHmənt/

Noun:
1.Something that has been achieved successfully
2.The successful achievement of a task

Don't see anything about minor tasks. I'm sorry i get a sense of accomplishment from something you don't, but you honestly don't have any room to ridicule outside your own opinion on what constitutes for it's proper use.

To me, there is nothing more rewarding than getting somewhere new, especially in spite of opposition.

Ill play this game for a month at the very least. Then its up to this games ability to keep things fun and exciting and no other games coming out doing the same thing better. I have been playing a pvp game for the past 3 years and wanted to try a pve centric game again. If this game can deliver engaging and hard endgame content(instances/crafting/open world bosses) then awesome as I have been a lover of all things final fantasy since I was 12 and picked up 3/6 for the first time. If not then there are other games coming out that say they can(not saying they will deliver). One more thing that worries me is the community or lack there of, and only time will alleviate those worries.

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Originally Posted by PotatoSalad

incessant voice acting can also be a bore, and that you might end up reading through the text and spacebaring through the voiced dialogue.

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That's actually true, since most people read faster than VOs play back. I was thinking more of a "TL : DR" version for regular quests. One or two sentences of VO that tell you the gist of what's going on, and if you wish to know more, you can read the quest text as well.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

Not so. If you didn't see my clear intent in wanting these things resolved in the future, then you read my post wrong. I'm very invested in this game and want to see it improved. I want to like it, as I've followed it for more than 3 years now. Moreover, I had a great experience with Phase 3 beta, where some of these issues were not necessarily problematic.



If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it. Easy, huh? Personally, I have a very good reason for vocalizing my problems: I want the dev teams to hear it and bolster those who would agree so the message is louder.See the thing about this whole defense mechanism over "opinions" is that you never see anyone bring it up for an opinion they agree with. Nor do people go into every thread and say "Hey! Guys! You are saying opinions!" It is as meaningful to walk into a coffee shop and remind people they are drinking coffee - there is no point being made. The truth is this is just a sneaky way to tell someone to stop talking because you don't like what they are saying. Under this logic, opinions are useless and not to be trusted (and certainly not to be examined) - unless, of course, they are reconfirming what someone already believes, then they are valid and worthwhile. One should not be so proud to have found an excuse to evade reasoned point of views they won't meet head on.

Of course what I'm saying is "just" an opinion. If we are going to state the obvious, why don't we also mention that you thinking what I've said isn't more important than server issues is also an opinion. I'm making a judgment call: server problems for a week or two now is not as harmful as poor design choices shaping the game for years to come (such as there being very weak server communities).

Anyway, I just wanted to quickly address that off-topic illogical argument as it has a habit to pop up everywhere on the internet. I'll post more thoughts on other replies later.

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The reason I used the 'Opinion' defense is because you are voicing your opinion and claiming they are issues the game needs to resolve. The points you made are relative to you and the people that agree with you, but that does not make them issues that need to be resolved by the development team. In the perspective of other players, the 'issues' you point out may not be 'issues' to them.

With that said, should the development team focus on 'your issues with game', or, some other player who has his own view on what the 'issues' of the game are? You say the abilities are lack luster, but, a different player might think they great. You say gear is boring, but, a different player might enjoy collecting and have fun with gear. There are 2 sides to every coin.

As stated previously, there are things I don't like about the game, but, these are not issues the dev team needs to fix. You are being quite pretentious in the simple act of claiming that your opinion needs to be heard, addressed, and have things changed by the dev team. You said it yourself, you want to like the game, but the game is not being made into something you enjoy, that does not mean the game has to be tweaked to address your wants.

There are a lot of people that agree with your points, there are a lot of people that disagree with your points, who is the dev team to cater to?
If you cannot find yourself liking the game because of the direction it is going in, that is o.k, yet, you claim it is an issue that needs to be fixed because you don't like the direction the game is going, that is my biggest gripe with your entire post.

OP,

Quests are too easy because Western Civilization wants things handed to them. This is the game they want to cater to the masses and it will cater well. They just need to deliver more content to feed, which I have confidence they will. This game has been fun and enjoyable. We can expect more difficult things in the future...with any game.

The games been made and about to release. I keep laughing at threads like this, and the threads that say the game isnt ready. The battle system is set in stone. There won't ever be a "3.0" with all the money invested in "2.0" to work. If you don;t like it don't play it. The DEVS are happy with how it turned out. If you want all these nifty features and an OP game, spend millions on creating your own mmorpg. until then keep quiet and either play or dont play :) They aren;t going to rework the game a third time to make you happy. beta is over, suggestions and such are pretty much out the window at this point.

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Originally Posted by Evandis

Actually, no, not new. Just smart enough to realize that it hasn't even been a week.

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Correct, it hasn't even been a week and most of the gear has been datamined and is on database style websites like ZAM and so on. We know that the gear is boring.

I don't think anyone is asking for a reworked battle system. There are ways it can be made better while still keeping the same foundation in place.

Getting that stat boost in the next set of gear is nice, but there should be more to differentiate gear. I hate to use WoW as an example, but they knew what they were doing with gear. Set bonuses are nice, which 14 does use to a certain extent, but there can be more diversity. As it stands, that set isn't even worth using as you can often get much better stats from non-set gear.

They need gear with additional effects, like procs, such as weapons having a chance of inflicting a debuff on an enemy, or a shield that has a chance to activate a bubble that absorbs some damage, or armor that allows you to evade every 10th attack, or maybe something with low defensive stats but a high chance to dodge attacks...there's a lot you can do with gear instead of just +X to stat. Materia is a good idea, but it can be refined a bit more to include more effects so you don't see melee DPS classes with just +STR materia.

The battle system can work as it is, but it needs a bit more difficulty and the gear needs more versatility. Oh...and abilities need to activate as soon as hit. There seems to be a bit of a delay from when they're pressed to when the effect activates.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Now you smell like a troll that hasn't played GLA or PLD. Flash will eat up your MP quickly if spammed, and any tank worth his salt will learn to blend in Riot Blade combos into their rotation to maintain their MP pool as best as they can.

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I've read most of the posts in here and agree with the vast majority, but you sir obviously either don't know how to play it or half ass it. You don't "need" to spam flash at all. Matter of fact in the 36 levels I've done so far in EA I haven't had a single aggro problem and have never had to use riot blade once. They could take it out the game and it wouldn't bother me at all. Learn how to really tank and not spam flash and riot blade then critique someone else please.

@OP - Very well thought out and great concerns. I agree and we can only hope the dev's take the time to look through it

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Originally Posted by Riposte

Before I go: We've seen lv. 50 gear and people have used means to see the stats on the best gear in the game. Furthermore, Yoshi-P has stated gear as I described it is working as intended, though there may be plans to have interesting gear in the future.

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Interesting is subjective. Your idea of "Interesting" seems to be rather weird.

Original Poster, I agree wholeheartedly but on a forum like this, they will not receive your thoughts or feelings. Please find a way to start a petition or somehow get their attention, I will definitely sign for you. On the other side if they ignore something this vital they will eventually realize the mistake on their own when this game becomes a flop. This is 2013, it isn't the time for WOW clones anymore to begin with when next generation MMO's are about to be launching soon.

As far as customization, even when I consider that to become a summoner i need to level arcanist to 30 and thm the 15 this sounds like a customization of classes at a superficial level, but what about when others complete the same requirements? How will people tell one summoner from the other? There is no feeling of being individual in this game as of yet, it seems they calculated down to a single digit how to balance this game perfectly, everyone always wants to say Balance Balance Balance....I believe it is imbalance which makes a fun mmo. My philosophy in prior mmos was to take mage which is always known to be a squishy class and build it in such a way that it can tank and take hits from sword weilding dpsers while nuking. In other words I took the imbalance of that class and individualized it making me a different mage from every other mage. IMBALANCE is needed.

While I agree with some of your points and disagree with others, none of these are issues, let alone issues that are "way bigger" than server stability. It sounds as if this is just not the game you were expecting it to be, but you can't beg ARR to be whatever game you wanted anymore than you can beg Mario Kart to be Need for Speed. If you don't like the fundamental design concepts, the game may just be a let down for you. We've all bought plenty of games that didn't deliver what we expected. That's just how it goes sometimes.

Personally, I'm having a great time in game. It's certainly better than the 4 months I spent in 1.0 (2 months at launch, another 2 in 2012). I suspect that most of the people who are really enjoying the game are busy playing it rather than hanging out on the forums though. Unfortunately, I'm stuck at work or I'd be there with them. :D

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Originally Posted by Yoko_Kurama

This is 2013, it isn't the time for WOW clones anymore to begin with when next generation MMO's are about to be launching soon.

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Every year we hear about this "next generation of mmos" and it never comes. The majority of new mmos tank whether they're WoW clones or not. Innovation does not equate with success or failure. I'm not sure what games you're referring to this time, but measure your expectations accordingly. That's not meant to be an insult, just a precaution.

Squeenix needs money. They need this game to appeal to the broadest crowd possible. If that means being a low fantasy wow clone, than so be it. Hopefully they will expand to interesting ways in the future, but right now, they need every sub and every sale, and I think this is their best way of getting it. Make it accessible so everyone can enjoy it, not just the hardcores.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

and more community friendly - which I'm sure when written out like that Yoshi-P himself would have a hard time disagreeing that is a good thing. Thought I would make that clear.

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Hundreds of threads have been brought up discussing how the LFG tools prevalent in the newer MMOs (originally made popular by that MMO apocalypse that is WoW) killed any community a MMO has on the server scale.

While I wouldn't mind seeing "interesting" items and agree those abilities you posted from 1.23 are more interesting and have more thought required in their use... Neither of those issues are things I personally am concerned about.

LFG tool though I'd set on fire and watch it burn as it cried for help.

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Originally Posted by BedroomRockstar01

Every year we hear about this "next generation of mmos" and it never comes. The majority of new mmos tank whether they're WoW clones or not. Innovation does not equate with success or failure. I'm not sure what games you're referring to this time, but measure your expectations accordingly. That's not meant to be an insult, just a precaution.

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They fail because they all have 1 underlying issue they all share that was in fact made popular by WoW.

They are all designed to draw the crowds aka the casuals. Who lose interest in a couple months then quit. They don't design to draw a relatively smaller but more committed crowd that will stick around. Look at FF11 and EQ. They are both the oldest mainstream MMOs that still release content but still generate income. Why? Because instead of trying to attract 1M people who all quit after 6 months. They attracted 200k people who stuck around for 12+ years.

in case math isn't your strong suit guess who made more money?

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Originally Posted by ChanceSkeleton

Squeenix needs money. They need this game to appeal to the broadest crowd possible. If that means being a low fantasy wow clone, than so be it. Hopefully they will expand to interesting ways in the future, but right now, they need every sub and every sale, and I think this is their best way of getting it. Make it accessible so everyone can enjoy it, not just the hardcores.

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Read above. hardcores keep a game alive. Casuals cover development costs.

Another thing I would like to add is that i'm terribly disappointed with Square-Enix when it comes to the main scenario. Thus far it's a massive step down from the 7th Umbral Storyline from 1.0 which wasn't amazing either. Once again there is a hindrance which keeps the story from being interesting because there's so much unnecessary fluff to get players to level 50.

It's so easy, so disengaging, so uninteresting that it becomes annoying to even do. This is coming from a person who praises story quests, but thus far from what i've done; A Realm Reborn has the absolute worst story in any Final Fantasy title, including the first two.

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Originally Posted by Yoko_Kurama

This is 2013, it isn't the time for WOW clones anymore to begin with when next generation MMO's are about to be launching soon.

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I suggest you look for a dictionary pronto, because "clone" doesn't mean what you think it means.

You simply don't have a point, exactly as the OP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

It's so easy, so disengaging, so uninteresting that it becomes annoying to even do. This is coming from a person who praises story quests, but thus far from what i've done; A Realm Reborn has the absolute worst story in any Final Fantasy title, including the first two.

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That good stuff you smoked, please share it. Thanks.