[suggetion] SE please stop with the hand holding

HunkaMunka's post is amazing, too bad this game is going the direction of every MMO after 2004, and not staying the direction of a JRPG FFMMO ;_;

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Originally Posted by HunkaMunka

I realize "time-sink" does not equate to "challenge", but what's the real difference between something which is a time-sink and something which is so challenging it takes ten attempts to succeed??? I guess that answer depends on perseverance and attitude as much as anything else.

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It depends on what you mean by attempts. If something takes ten successful attempts to reach your goal then that is not really challenging, it's just making you repeat the same thing ten times to get what you want regardless of actual difficulty. If something takes nine failed attempts and you finally get it on the tenth attempt that indeed does sound like a challenge. Something that will kick your ass because you're not prepared or you don't play well enough is challenging and I think a vast majority of players for this game desire that or at least have no problem with it.

The time-sinks that became a huge issue are things like 24 hour NM spawns and such. Things that offer no challenge and just make you wait to try again. If they instead made an NM (or all NMs) that you would think more than twice about before engaging, that would just stomp you into the ground if you messed up, that is something that would deter the poor players and reward the good players.

I've been reading these forums since they launched and I've seen very few posts where people were complaining about this game being too difficult and most were answered with people disagreeing and wanting challenging content. I've seen most people on the forums here opposed to two things:

1. Making the game easier. This game is easy no matter how you slice it, though it should be noted all recent changes have been made with the new battle system in mind so we'll see how things pan out.

2. Adding obnoxious time sinks. Yes MMOs by nature are meant to be played for years but this can be accomplished by adding challenging content and making the game itself fun. Obnoxious time sinks have no place, they simply deter people from actually playing.

Time sinks are fine(and really really good) as long as they're FUN, extremely fun and addicting, timesinks. Boring timesinks suck, fun ones are great. It increases the longevity of the game and makes you play longer, making have more things to do so you won't get bored of the game as quick. This is where FF11 excelled, it has lots of timesinks, but they were extremely fun and the game never got boring.

Most western MMO's have almost no timesinks, but you beat the game quickly, run out of things to do, and get bored the game.

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Originally Posted by HunkaMunka

I fell in love with FF11 for two main reasons:

1) The journey from 1-75 was FULL of adventures and surprises and accomplishments and FUN!!!!!, the game most certainly did not start at level 75. The adventure started at level 1. I remember being under level 10, not even knowing of linkshells yet, getting 5 randoms together in Windy, and whipping them through the rank 1 ~ 3 missions, not because they were easy, but because I had done 1 and 2 many times and knew what needed to be done, and I needed their help to get through 3.

2) The game was challenging and complex. From the first time you set foot outside one of the starter cities, you had to be on your toes to stay alive, succeed and progress; and you had to pay attention to the world around you to learn how it worked so you could operate effectively. There was none of this pandering to the lowest common denominator of the masses BS to try and increase sales (and profits)...at least, for a time.

I realize "time-sink" does not equate to "challenge", but what's the real difference between something which is a time-sink and something which is so challenging it takes ten attempts to succeed??? I guess that answer depends on perseverance and attitude as much as anything else.

I cried every time SE made FF11 easier in an attempt to make it more appealing. The only thing SE accomplished was alienating their loyal players who enjoyed and relished the game for what it was in the hope of making more money.

Was I upset the first time I saw someone who had blasted their way through the CoP missions in a month after the 15th round of simplification? Of course! That was something that took my friends and I a significant amount of work and brainpower to accomplish, and in which, I must be honest, I took some measure of pride. To have been through CoP while a large part of the population was still stuck on their Promy's was no small feat.

I cannot ever recall a time while playing FF11 during which I spent hours "waiting around, doing nothing". Craft, dig, leg-work completing in-depth story cut-scenes to progress with missions, normal good ol' fashioned quests for fun and profit, research and preparation for "End Game" events, farming, NM hunts (O.Hat, do you need it?), and if all else fails "/sea all invite XX-XX" and put together an xp pt.

If you were dumb enough to sit around for hours with your flag up waiting for an invite, then maybe hellokittyonline is indeed the game for you; but for the love of the Gods, please stop ruining my FF14.


I, for one, do not want an easy MMORPG. Everyone seems to get hung up on the MMO half of the MMORPG title, and few ppl ever bring up the RPG aspect. Just because something is designed to be massively multiplayer, doesn't mean it must pander to the masses. This is, first and foremost, an RPG; and I don't want to play the role of a retarded, inbred, red-headed step-child who is intimidated by van sized squirrels which in no way react to what goes on around them, who is thrilled because their spell animations are twice as big as they used to be, and who needs to be lead by the nose down the primrose garden path to the big shiny chest of gold at the end while only using one brain cell at a time to put the other foot down in front of the previous one (hopefully on the appropriate side).

TL;DR: OP, mad props; anyone who skipped the post and went to this line, go play something else, probably something that doesn't involve reading.

(I know...READING?!?!?!?!......in a VIDEO GAME?!?!?!?!... /SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!)

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Good Post

I feel the same i really hope there will be somthing worth working for in this game in future.

I played FFXI since start in Europe and that is the best most amazing gamed i ever played.

And really hope there will be big adjustments in this game so you really feel any joy over acomplish anything.

I think most people was angry sometimes in FFXI but there was also these joyfull moment when you get the item you wanted for wery long time.

I know SE can do better than this that the only reason i still play i hope there will be big changes in battle i miss the moments you had to do your best to get somewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJuAc4iInAw

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Time sinks are fine(and really really good) as long as they're FUN, extremely fun and addicting, timesinks. Boring timesinks suck, fun ones are great. It increases the longevity of the game and makes you play longer, making have more things to do so you won't get bored of the game as quick. This is where FF11 excelled, it has lots of timesinks, but they were extremely fun and the game never got boring.

Most western MMO's have almost no timesinks, but you beat the game quickly, run out of things to do, and get bored the game.

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I feel the same of course i was angry many times camping against RMT to get HQ equip or gil to buy other items.

But when i look back i prefer that system over then just hand out everything like free.

Here get Rank up going so fast camping this small NM feel almost useless why spend 1-3 hour max get an item i not really need becouse i can pass the Rank of the item in the same time.

And i have no really use for it becouse all i do is behest leaves where the mobs dies so fast i have no really use to get any better weapon then i can buy.

In FFXI you could see the diffrence get the NM stuff it was usefull to get to next lvl faster.

Here its no matter what equip you got all who matter its get the right Guildleves a system working that way is boring.

I wanna get my next Rank with fun battles where i have to use skills and abilities and where equipment do something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKPQOYasgAE

I don't see what's so fun, engaging or challenging about that video. All I see is a bunch of people beating on a crawler for a minute.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I don't see what's so fun, engaging or challenging about that video. All I see is a bunch of people beating on a crawler for a minute.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn56cs6lsGU

Fun, engaging, and challenging.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn56cs6lsGU

Fun, engaging, and challenging.

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Yeeeup, that battle system is way better then the ffxiv battle system. Cureall spams for no extra MP or hate is a joke, and gladiator needs to keep hate better. Hope the new updates fix this trash.

I waiting for the big changes to the game i not think this gonna survive without that

SE promised casual players and players with more time an experience but i have seen wery little yet

Final fantasy before was quality products like an sports car

I feel SE have trying change the brand of Final fantasy to something else like a standard car

And somewhere on the road we lost all qualities Final fantasy was standing for

The changes needed to save the sinking ship is bigger then SE dare to make i think

If i understand right so have FFXIV > 50.000 users where FFXI had 500.000

Where is the hard obtainible items the hard fights the experience the joy the feeling you have try one more time just ?


Other companies also tried change there products to something for all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z9k6...eature=related

agree with first post.....

I have been chipping away at this game for little over 2 weeks now (after hating the beta) and I really cannot see what all the fuss is over with regards to it being terrible. I love it, and am really enjoying testing out all the classes, exploring, and getting my quest log completed.

The problem as I see it is that people are expecting new content, which is on it's way, but until then, you just need to work on your own thing for a bit. The game is free right now, and as such we cannot really expect anything, until such time they announce the monthly fee is going live. While I do understand that hitting 50 on one job can make alot of players feel like they have hit endgame, this game does not start at cap. It constantly encourages you to level other classes to help support your main role.

For example, I wanted to do Alchemy, so I realised I needed fishing, which then lead me to see that I would also need Sweat of Brow. I find these little chains of requirements are what keep these games fun for me. I set out to attain my goals, and slowly work towards them.

I think some people may just need to take a break though, as it is clear they are just staring at their screens waiting for something to happen. It won't till the patches start rolling in.

The MP issue is a big one, potions are rare and expensive for what they do.
Siphon and Spikes only work on mobs that have MP. (and mobs do run out)
During leves you can touch the crystal to regain MP
Crystals have a 10 min cool down as well.
If the party is far from a crystal then this interrupts the flow of a party.
The 10 min ability only replenishes 50% of mp. (which is pretty low if you're the only mage)
Conjurers have neither spikes or siphon. (spikes probably should have gone to them as they are more buff focused)
The MP weapon skills are even worse than the ones WHM had in 11 which was pretty mediocre already.

They'll need to really examine this issue in depth and solve for melee as well since it would be lop sided to say that you have to level thaumaturge if you want any chance of recovering MP.

I can definitely seem them toning down the current regeneration rates but this does go back to adding interruptions to game play.

I hate to say it, but WoW seems to handle HP and MP recovery pretty well with food and drink.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

The MP issue is a big one, potions are rare and expensive for what they do.
Siphon and Spikes only work on mobs that have MP. (and mobs do run out)
During leves you can touch the crystal to regain MP
Crystals have a 10 min cool down as well.
If the party is far from a crystal then this interrupts the flow of a party.
The 10 min ability only replenishes 50% of mp. (which is pretty low if you're the only mage)
Conjurers have neither spikes or siphon. (spikes probably should have gone to them as they are more buff focused)
The MP weapon skills are even worse than the ones WHM had in 11 which was pretty mediocre already.

They'll need to really examine this issue in depth and solve for melee as well since it would be lop sided to say that you have to level thaumaturge if you want any chance of recovering MP.

I can definitely seem them toning down the current regeneration rates but this does go back to adding interruptions to game play.

I hate to say it, but WoW seems to handle HP and MP recovery pretty well with food and drink.

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I think they really need to fix potions and ethers. Right now all consumables are in dire need of re-balancing. They are something vital to the game that we are missing that would help people with issues similar to mp, hp, and min/maxing stats.

There should be some hard content, but it should only be an achievement thing and not required. Rewards should be given for them but nothing that is rly game changing just something special and above average like th achievement that ha be made.

You are absolutely right, why should this game be challenging? Anyone who can press his face into a keyboard should be able to beat any monster in the game and get all the gear with out having to do any playing what so ever.

I should use this new philosophy in every aspect of my gaming life, next time I play D&D that GM darn well better give me the adventure script a week in advance as well as a copy of the dungeon map, so I know which monsters are where and if they will attack, and where all the magic items are so i dont have to look for them, also I need to be able to ignore my hitpoint total and roll crits whenever I feel like it because the game would not be fun if I could lose.

(I do not think getting good gear or killing monsters should take months of doing the same content to do, but maybe killing the monster 1 time if he is sufficiently hard, how about being for casual players who like challenges instead of casual players who want to sleep through the game? then casual and hardcore can play the same game and be happy.)

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Originally Posted by Basstastic

There should be some hard content, but it should only be an achievement thing and not required. Rewards should be given for them but nothing that is rly game changing just something special and above average like th achievement that ha be made.

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Tell your boss that instead of rewarding you with a raise that you'll take a gold star sticker next to your name for all your hard work.

If everything is just handed to you, where is the feeling of accomplishment? Where is that sense that the time and effort you put in has actually payed off.
Besides if you're happy not doing the more challenging content, you probably won't be needing that better gear for later challenging content, so don't worry about what they give the rest of us

I agree with Allanon in sayingt hat this game is already easy as it is and that they just keep on adding to that dumbing of the game with each patch. I also played FFXI for a long time (since it came out in NA for about 5 years) and I really enjoyed the game and it's difficulty. It took me a long time to get a job to 75 (level cap back then) and I never got bored in all the time it took me.. I think it took me 2-3 years lol. The fact that I did not get bored and it didn't even occur to me about complaining that it took a long time to reach max level was that there was TONS of stuff to do that did not require you to be max level like missions and quests.

Right now in FFXIV, all there is to do is get to rank 50.. there is nothing that makes you want to take a break from ranking up like doing story missions.. yes there are a few storyline "quests" right now, but they are so easy that they are not really worth mentionning and they are completed so quickly that it feels it was designed for a special kids...

Quests were hard and you needed to actually read what the NPC was saying but they might have been a little bit too vague and mostly required you to go look online. In FFXIV it's the opposite and in no way better.. you get the quest, good for you if you took time to read it but it's in no way required (which is a shame really) and then you just look at your map icons to see where to go. That is not fun to me and I think they should get rid of that, just make the journal say where you need to go would be sufficient.

So all in all, I agree that the game as it stands right now is way too easy and there is no feeling of accomplishment about getting rank 50. Please add content and not only at rank 50.. add LEVEL CAPs for storyline quests and mission battles so that there is a challenge in completing them even at higher rank.