FFXIV Bahamut vs. WoW Deathwing - Who Wins?

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Originally Posted by Solace

That's kind of not the point though. :P..
Even when we defeat him. He would still have destroyed the world.
That doesn't just disappear because we finally win..
The score is Eorzea 0 Bahamut 1..
At best we get to break even.. But he still nuked the planet..

So in order for death wing to even compete, he has to first destroy and entire planet.
So technically "No" both did not get stopped by players..
If we had stopped him, Eorzea would of not been nuked..
We will stop him this time but we did not stop him before..
That's the heart of this story I think.. ;)

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Well, Bahamut didn't "destroy" Eorzea either, unless you consider slightly altering stuff to be destroyed. Deathwing did the exact same thing.

Discussing on a Final Fantasy forum if a Final Fantasy dragon is cool than a non-Final Fantasy dragon with Final Fantasy players...

One can only wonder if this discussion will be one sided.

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Originally Posted by Klive

Discussing on a Final Fantasy forum if a Final Fantasy dragon is cool than a non-Final Fantasy dragon with Final Fantasy players...

One can only wonder if this discussion will be one sided.

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Hey you...stop pointing out obvious things!

SCORE DECIDED PURELY ON WHICH CHARACTERISTIC IS MORE VALUABLE
IN A FIGHT



Demeanor:
Deathwing: Reckless, mostly insane, impulsive
Bahamut: Patient, intelligent, manipulative



Facing the Guardian:
Deathwing: Openly admits fear to face the Magus.
Bahamut: Louisoux was destroyed incidentally in a larger attack



Quality
Deathwing: One of Five Dragon Aspects (Leaders of Groups)
Bahamut: The One God (Leader of their Civilization)



Longevity
Bahamut: Incorporeal spirit; infinitely resummonable unless contained
Deathwing: Deceased.



Final In-Game Circumstances
Deathwing: Overcome by adventurers and their allies.
Bahamut: Overcome by adventurers and their allies.


Winner:
Anony Moose
(and other Eorzeans)

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Demeanor:
Bahamut: Patient

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I'm pretty sure "flipping out and blowing up everything" doesn't constitute as being "patient."

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

I'm pretty sure "flipping out and blowing up everything" doesn't constitute as being "patient."

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How long do you expect him to wait (after succeeding in a multiple-era escape plan that requires manipulating the people and policies of two realms and overpowering the influence of twelve gods guided by their earthy incarnations) before throwing a punch? I'd argue that the time was right, lol.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/285267

Old Godzilla was hopping around
Tokyo City like a big playground
When suddenly Batman burst from the shade
And hit Godzilla with a Batgrenade
Godzilla got pissed and began to attack
But didn't expect to be bocked by Shaq
Who proceeded to open up a can of Shaq Fu
When Aaron Carter came out of the blue
And he started beating up Shaquille O'Neal
Then they both got flattened by the Batmobile
But before it could make it back to the Batcave
Abraham Lincoln popped out of his grave
And took an AK-47 out from under his hat
And blew Batman away with a rat-a-tat-tat
But he ran out of bullets and he ran away
Because Optimus Prime came to save the day
This is the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
Good guys, bad guys, and explosions as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive, I wonder who it will be
This is the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
Godzilla took a bite out of Optimus Prime
Like Scruff McGruff took a bite out of crime
And then Shaq came back covered in a tire track
But Jackie Chan jumped out and landed on his back
And Batman was injured, and trying to get steady
When Abraham Lincoln came back with a machete
But suddenly something caught his leg and he tripped
Indiana Jones took him out with his whip
Then he saw Godzilla sneaking up from behind
And he reached for his gun which he just couldn't find
'Cause Batman stole it and he shot and he missed
And Jackie Chan deflected it with his fist
Then he jumped in the air and did a somersault
While Abraham Lincoln tried to pole vault
Onto Optimus Prime, but they collided in the air
Then they both got hit by a Care Bear Stare
This is the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
Good guys, bad guys, and explosions as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive, I wonder who it will be
This is the Ultimate Showdown...
Angels sang out an immaculate chorus
Down from the heavens descended Chuck Norris
Who delivered a kick which could shatter bones
Into the crotch of Indiana Jones
Who fell over on the ground, writhing in pain
As Batman changed back into Bruce Wayne
But Chuck saw through his clever disguise
And he crushed Batman's head inbetween his thighs
Then Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and
"Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s Black Knight and
Benito Mussolini and The Blue Meanie and
Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie
Robocop, the Terminator, Captain Kirk, and Darth Vader
Lo Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger
Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan,
Spock, The Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan
All came out of nowhere lightning fast
And they kicked Chuck Norris in his cowboy ass
It was the bloodiest battle the world ever saw
With civilians looking on in total awe
And the battle raged on for a century
Many lives were claimed, but eventually
The champion stood, the rest saw their better:
Mr. Rogers in a bloodstained sweater
This is the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
Good guys, bad guys, and explosions as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive, I wonder who it will be
This is the Ultimate Showdown...
(The Ultimate Showdown)
This is The Ultimate Showdown...
(The Ultimate Showdown)
This is the Ultimate Showdown...
Of Ultimate Destiny.

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Thank you.. In the video, random Tobias Fuenke cameo in Blue Man makeup made my day.

This is no contest...Bahamut has been smashing things in the final fantasy series way before Deathwing even hatched from his Dev's head....Bahamut would win hands down....

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

How long do you expect him to wait (after succeeding in a multiple-era escape plan that requires manipulating the people and policies of two realms and overpowering the influence of twelve gods guided by their earthy incarnations) before throwing a punch? I'd argue that the time was right, lol.

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Well, we didn't see him hanging in a Dalamud closet by his belt, so I guess that's proof that he's patient.

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Originally Posted by Forgo

This is no contest...Bahamut has been smashing things in the final fantasy series way before Deathwing even hatched from his Dev's head....Bahamut would win hands down....

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The thread is FFXIV Bahamut, not the entire series. Going simply off age doesn't make one more powerful than the other.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

How long do you expect him to wait (after succeeding in a multiple-era escape plan that requires manipulating the people and policies of two realms and overpowering the influence of twelve gods guided by their earthy incarnations) before throwing a punch? I'd argue that the time was right, lol.

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Sorry Kiria he's got a point...

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Well, we didn't see him hanging in a Dalamud closet by his belt, so I guess that's proof that he's patient.

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AHAHAHA

Were I less a man of logic-first, that would have been a much better argument for me to open with.

/highfive

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Were I less a man of logic-first, that would have been a much better argument. /highfive

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I was more or less thinking of how funny that would have made the End of an Era trailer...sorry for the awful argument, haha!

We really don't know enough about whats going on yet, i think. Bahamut unleashed a berserk attack, raining down lasers upon the surface of Eorzea. Shaving off the top layer of much of the region. He's caused damage to that region, not the whole planet and it has since healed over time. Apparently faster because of the abundance of life energy that was swept over the land during the course of the events. There were remnants of Dalamud strewn all over Eorzea by Bahamut, and i think Yoshida hinted that they will be linked with the labyrinth of Bahamut. I think if the Labyrinth is Dalamud or some how related it may explain Bahamut's imprisonment.

Ohhh, man. Where's one of our resident comic artists? I bet they'd get a few laughs out of both communities with an If WoW were FFXIV "Crossover" comic of that scene playing out...

The Battle of Cartenau rages, except it's Horde v. Alliance... Dalamud falls... the bottom falls out and pieces rain across the land like meteors... out of the bottom falls a bunch of confetti, streamers, congratulations on your escape banners... and Deathwing falls out of the bottom, hanging from the inside of the northern pole as a note dated the fifth astral era flutters out of the bottom of the open sphere.

How insensitively dark, I shouldn't find it so funny in any context. Maybe it would be less horribly offensive if it was in Vergil or Nique's cutesy art style, I've always wanted one of Nique's little comics but I don't think we know enough about each other for one to come together that reflects Moose's personality, lol.

(or maybe it's just a bad idea to put on paper and I'm a terrible person lol.)


EDIT:
Yeah, after some actual thought, there's necessary context that doesn't carry over well. Scratch that.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Ohhh, man. Where's one of our resident comic artists? I bet they'd get a few laughs out of both communities with an If WoW were FFXIV "Crossover" comic of that scene playing out...

The Battle of Cartenau rages, except it's Horde v. Alliance... Dalamud falls... the bottom falls out and pieces rain across the land like meteors... out of the bottom falls a bunch of confetti, streamers, congratulations on your escape banners... and Deathwing falls out of the bottom, hanging from the inside of the northern pole as a note dated the fifth astral era flutters out of the bottom of the open sphere.

How insensitively dark, I shouldn't find it so funny in any context. Maybe it would be less horribly offensive if it was in Vergil or Nique's cutesy art style, I've always wanted one of Nique's little comics but I don't think we know enough about each other for one to come together.

(or maybe it's just a bad idea to put on paper and I'm a terrible person lol.)

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Well, I guess I should say that I didn't mean it in a "LOL SUICIDE IS FUNNY" kind of way, but more along the lines that instead of his summoning going to plan, he just ended up being being dead because he couldn't handle the solitude of being locked up for that whole time.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Well, I guess I should say that I didn't mean it in a "LOL SUICIDE IS FUNNY" kind of way...

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Oh, of course - in my head that just played into the anticlimax of when someone finally found him. That's the part I thought was funny. "The great evil we banished to the sky returns... prepare for the fight of your liv-... oh, never mind... Jeez, poor guy."

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Oh, of course - in my head that just played into the anticlimax of when someone finally found him. That's the part I thought was funny. "The great evil we banished to the sky returns... prepare for the fight of your liv-... oh, never mind... Jeez, poor guy."

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Originally Posted by Gaius van Baelsar

http://www.n-scaler.com/gallery/albu...r_facepalm.jpg

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Blah blah blah

Originally Posted by Gaius v--- I C WAT U DID THAR.

In all seriousness to the topic, however, Deathwing actually was willing to wear armor he knew would kill him if it meant getting what he wanted at the time - the only reason he took it off was to prevent someone from looting it off his corpse, if I remember correctly.

Compound for Bahamut being from amongst the aether (thus only his corporeal form can "die" for however long it takes to resummon him), he's a guaranteed winner no matter how well Deathwing fights, eventually. To ask who'd win would be like asking who'd win between Bahamut and Nidhogg. Deathwing would be a fallen king of their kind at best.

Now.. Deathwing v. Tiamat... that'd be a fight worth watching.

As for Bahamut, it all comes down to fighting Odin... or, if my theories are correct, Bahamut and Odin v. Alexander.

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Originally Posted by Solace

That's kind of not the point though. :P..
Even when we defeat him. He would still have destroyed the world.
That doesn't just disappear because we finally win..
The score is Eorzea 0 Bahamut 1..
At best we get to break even.. But he still nuked the planet..

So in order for death wing to even compete, he has to first destroy and entire planet.
So technically "No" both did not get stopped by players..
If we had stopped him, Eorzea would of not been nuked..
We will stop him this time but we did not stop him before..
That's the heart of this story I think.. ;)

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I wasn't responding to the whole Bahamut vs Deathwing with that. Of course when we eventually defeat Bahamut it doesn't erase what he has already done. Same as defeating Deathwing doesn't erase what he did (unless it does in WoWs storyline which I doubt). Skye was confused by KiriA500 saying both Bahamut and Deathwing are defeated by players. That is what I was responding to. Both are defeated AFTER they do their stuff, but before they do their next stuff.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

SCORE DECIDED PURELY ON WHICH CHARACTERISTIC IS MORE VALUABLE
IN A FIGHT



Demeanor:
Deathwing: Reckless, mostly insane, impulsive
Bahamut: Patient, intelligent, manipulative



Facing the Guardian:
Deathwing: Openly admits fear to face the Magus.
Bahamut: Louisoux was destroyed incidentally in a larger attack



Quality
Deathwing: One of Five Dragon Aspects (Leaders of Groups)
Bahamut: The One God (Leader of their Civilization)



Longevity
Bahamut: Incorporeal spirit; infinitely resummonable unless contained
Deathwing: Deceased.



Final In-Game Circumstances
Deathwing: Overcome by adventurers and their allies.
Bahamut: Overcome by adventurers and their allies.


Winner:
Anony Moose
(and other Eorzeans)

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I'd say this is pretty spot on. Especially the part about Bahamut being truly immortal whilst Deathwing is now a not-so-living example of the first half of his name, poor chap. He gave it his all, though. He gave it his all.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...os-d4igtym.jpg

Rest in peace, DW.

The true winner is Hildibrand.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Final In-Game Circumstances
Bahamut: Overcome by adventurers and their allies.

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We're not sure of this :p
Maybe no one can defeat him! :O

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Originally Posted by Momita

Maybe no one can defeat him! :O

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http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-cont..._Bahamut-2.png
http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-cont..._Bahamut-5.png
http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-cont..._Bahamut-3.png

Consolation prizes?
o.0

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-cont..._Bahamut-2.png
http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-cont..._Bahamut-5.png
http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-cont..._Bahamut-3.png

Consolation prizes?
o.0

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Troll Prizes!!
We know what could we win... But we never get that stuff! :O

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

The true winner is Hildibrand.

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Truth.

/10char

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Originally Posted by Destain

Everyone calm down! Let's get to a real battle!

Bahamut vs. Goku vs. Deathwing vs. Superman vs. The Dragon Zord vs. Doctor Who vs. Kratos vs. Master Chief vs. The Death Star vs. Hulk vs. Enterprise NCC-1701D

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Too one sided... Obviously The Doctor would win that battle.

it's easy even my brother's goat would have kick deathwing butt :P lol hahahahaha

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

The thread is FFXIV Bahamut, not the entire series. Going simply off age doesn't make one more powerful than the other.

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one (other) sensible voice amidst the cacophony of yes-men, at least

i've never disagreed that "bahamut would win" or whatever the popular sentiment is around here, i've just challenged some of the logic behind it. (ie: both dragons actually failed to destroy the world, being around longer doesn't make you more powerful, etc)

though i do find it strange that, in spite of essentially making the same point as me, people aren't falling all over themselves to flail at you about it.

Deathwing: Makes holes in the ground.(Unless I am mistaken)

Bahamut: Makes labyrithine passageways that will likely contain hedgemazes and shrubbery.

Clearly we hired the better landscaping dragon.

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Originally Posted by Endu

Too one sided... Obviously The Doctor would win that battle.

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This is accurate, wouldn't even throw a punch. Would just talk everyone into giving up. Take it all baby!

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Originally Posted by fusional

one (other) sensible voice amidst the cacophony of yes-men, at least

i've never disagreed that "bahamut would win" or whatever the popular sentiment is around here, i've just challenged some of the logic behind it. (ie: both dragons actually failed to destroy the world, being around longer doesn't make you more powerful, etc)

though i do find it strange that, in spite of essentially making the same point as me, people aren't falling all over themselves to flail at you about it.

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Well, you have more of a "negative" reputation on these boards, so it's pretty easy to see why you get a ton of flack for the stuff you say. I'm stepping my way up though!

Most people just see Bahamut in the End of an Era trailer and say "WOW COOL!", totally forgetting that someone shut him in that prison to begin with, so there's already someone/something more powerful than him. He's not unstoppable, seeing as someone stopped him previously.

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Originally Posted by Destain

Everyone calm down! Let's get to a real battle!

Bahamut vs. Goku vs. Deathwing vs. Superman vs. The Dragon Zord vs. Doctor Who vs. Kratos vs. Master Chief vs. The Death Star vs. Hulk vs. Enterprise NCC-1701D

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Pfft, Thancred would murder them all. So really it doesn't matter, does it? :P

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Well, you have more of a "negative" reputation on these boards, so it's pretty easy to see why you get a ton of flack for the stuff you say. I'm stepping my way up though!

Most people just see Bahamut in the End of an Era trailer and say "WOW COOL!", totally forgetting that someone shut him in that prison to begin with, so there's already someone/something more powerful than him. He's not unstoppable, seeing as someone stopped him previously.

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The method of Bahamut's imprisonment doesn't imply that its jailer was more powerful than him. Wasn't it theorized that the Allagans faced him? As far as we know, their civilization didn't survive the ordeal.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The method of Bahamut's imprisonment doesn't imply that its jailer was more powerful than him. Wasn't it theorized that the Allagans faced him? As far as we know, their civilization didn't survive the ordeal.

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Thank you..
lol..

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Well, Bahamut didn't "destroy" Eorzea either, unless you consider slightly altering stuff to be destroyed. Deathwing did the exact same thing.

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If a Meteor hit the planet, covering the entire earth in flames and extinguishing most life.. I think most consider that "destroying the planet"
Semantics..lol..

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Pfft, Thancred would murder them all. So really it doesn't matter, does it? :P

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Even against great hair & JRPG pretty boy good looks, The Doctor wins. After 35 years worth of him winning with only his razor sharp wit, a few cheeky quips and a sonic screwdriver, you would think people would know this....

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Originally Posted by Solace

If a Meteor hit the planet, covering the entire earth in flames and extinguishing most life.. I think most consider that "destroying the planet"
Semantics..lol..

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If the "meteor" would have hit Eorzea in it's whole form, then I agree that most likely would have destroyed most of the world. But it didn't. It exploded and the shards went everywhere. The big blast at the end was Bahamut's Terraflare, not the "meteor" hitting.

So no the world was not destroyed, Eorzea wasn't even destroyed. Changed & essentially terraformed in some places? Yes. Destroyed? No.

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Originally Posted by Endu

If the "meteor" would have hit Eorzea in it's whole form, then I agree that most likely would have destroyed most of the world. But it didn't. It exploded and the shards went everywhere. The big blast at the end was Bahamut's Terraflare, not the "meteor" hitting.

So no the world was not destroyed, Eorzea wasn't even destroyed. Changed & essentially terraformed in some places? Yes. Destroyed? No.

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I never said it was the meteor...
I was just giving what I thought, was an easy to understand example..lol..

Point being mega flare from what I assumed, did cover the planet in flame.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

To be fair to Sailormut. he does get many incarnations throughout the universe, and seems to up in strength and power every time. Yesterday's Teraflare is tommorrow's Megaflare and next week's warning shot.

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Wonderfully put. He also seems to get progressively more hateful towards humans. We don't know exactly why he was in the Wonderball, but I can bet he feels more than FFXI Bahamut's scornful disgust or FFXIII-2 Bahamut's mind-controlled rampage. And he was so nice in FF1, too ; ;

It's weird how bent out of shape some people are getting over a completely hypothetical topic. It's rather sad how a few are taking such a condescending tone with others about it (well, it's par for the course with one person, so not surprising there; I'll let others guess who).

I'll add this...

Part of the issue people seem to be dealing with is each one's personal definition of "destroying the world". So, I won't even go there. I'll just speak to the overall amount of destruction each creates, and the fallout from it.

In Deathwing's case, he messed some places up, while entire other regions are left untouched. So his swath of destruction was very much limited to only certain parts of Azeroth. Further, cities are left standing in each case with only some damage done. All in all, the impression I had (even at Cata's launch, well before anything to do with XIV or Bahamut), was that he was a pissed off dragon going on a temper tantrum.

It's accurate to say that in the 2.5 years or so that he was freed, he failed to destroy the world. The worst of his destruction was inflicted when he first emerged.

On the other hand, Bahamut manages to change the face of pretty much all of Eorzea within minutes of emerging, changing entire climates in some cases from what we've seen. And I don't mean "making a long trench here, or a large crater there", I mean rendering the world pretty much unrecognizable to anyone who saw it during 1.0. Outside of the cities (which seemed to have been mostly spared, just like in WoW).

That said, we don't know how much impact his attacks had on the cities themselves. While none may have suffered a direct hit (which remains to be seen), that's not to say the fallout couldn't have been equally devastating - choking smoke and ash and debris, etc...

And then there's the matter of the folks in XIV having to be actually teleported away to safety, or face certain annihilation. We don't know if that was everyone on Eorzea, or just those immediately within and around the cities. That remains to be seen... and perhaps something in ARR will explain all that.

I would have to say, with what we've seen of ARR (screenshots, videos, etc) and what we can see of Azeroth, and considering the effects each attack had on its respective world's population... I'd have to give it to Bahamut.

It seems pointless to talk about what happens to Bahamut after his attack, or his imprisonment in the labyrinth, because we don't know how he ultimately ends up there, yet. There's a lot of guessing and theory-crafting, but no one actually knows at this point (well, outside of SE anyway).

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Originally Posted by Solace

I never said it was the meteor...
I was just giving what I thought, was an easy to understand example..lol..

Point being mega flare from what I assumed, did cover the planet in flame.

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No it didn't...