An Eorzean Timeline.

It's a pretty hard story to follow, considering the turmoil at SE at the time. The lore team is chipping away at it tho!

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Originally Posted by Myranda

But is it not true that the miqo'te came over the frozen seas during a previous umbral era? If the hyurs were the first immigrants to Eorzea, certainly they must have do so well before 1000 years ago, at least before the miqo'te migration.

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... how did that never cross my mind? Hold on a second. <shuffles through a stack of books, holding up two differently aged copies of the same text to compare>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Elezen (1.X)

In former times, the Elezen were the sole inhabitants of Eorzea, claiming dominion over her. Traditionally a nomadic people, the tall, slender Elezen believed the realm to be theirs by divine right—a gift from the Twelve themselves. Unfortunately, this belief made the eventual appearance of the Hyur in their multitudes akin to an invasion, and a long history of conflict ensued.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Elezen (ARR)

The Elezen once claimed sole dominion over Eorzea, their presence predating that of the other races, and, as such, developed a heightened sense of honor and pride. In years past, the Hyur migration into Elezen lands sparked bitter conflict.

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I think you're right, and I think SE caught that ambiguity before I did... going to have to do some more 1.X to ARR text comparisons and see if anything else like that snuck by me.

So, correction, the Hyur weren't the first outsiders - they were the first outsiders to come in great numbers...

Nice catch. I'd never even questioned the 1.X text.

Statistically speaking, I'd still say the Allagan are still likely to be primarily Elezen due to the fact that if they considered a migratory wave to be an invasion, they would have seen an Empire like a vegan sees a pork chop... but this does leave the door open...

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Yeah that's what I'm saying "which would bring about the whole Duskwight and Wildwood Elezen we have today." Kinda funny that the Elezen people would found Gridania, if they were indeed ancestors of the Allagans and the Empire existed in Thanalan, and the Lalafell would found Ul'dah and Sil'dih.

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However, based on what we know and suspect so far, Gridania was founded during the sixth astral era. If Allag fell in the Fourth era, there is an entire era that needs to fill the gap seperating the ice age and the flood, including civilizations that nurtured the tradition of a grand company, since the last appearance of these entities was before both Gridania and Ishgard were founded. Gelmorra?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

However, based on what we know and suspect so far, Gridania was founded during the sixth astral era. If Allag fell in the Fourth era, there is an entire era that needs to fill the gap seperating the ice age and the flood, including civilizations that nurtured the tradition of a grand company, since the last appearance of these entities was before both Gridania and Ishgard were founded. Gelmorra?

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Think about this...the Allagan Empire is ultimately in ruin. Factions split off and some head to the Twelveswood. The fall of the Allagan Empire ushers in the Fourth Umbral era. Whether this was due to sealing Bahamut, we don't know yet. Back to the Elezen that fled to the Twelveswood. They live and prosper in the woods...the Fifth Umbral age brings Snow and Ice. Where is a safe place in a forest for people seeking to get out of the cold, underneath the ground...Gelmorra. The Elezen slowly become the Duskwight Elezen, because they're underground and rarely in the sun light.

What happens after the Snow and Ice stop, the Duskwight Elezen come out of their holes and live above ground...thus the founding of Gridania.

I think we're onto something my dear Watson!

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

I think we're onto something my dear Watson!

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I think we're going to need to look at this closer once the beta phase three content that includes quest text on the formation of Gridania, it's arms and the Order of the Twin Adder, is unveiled.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

... how did that never cross my mind? Hold on a second. <shuffles through a stack of books, holding up two differently aged copies of the same text to compare>





I think you're right, and I think SE caught that ambiguity before I did... going to have to do some more 1.X to ARR text comparisons and see if anything else like that snuck by me.

So, correction, the Hyur weren't the first outsiders - they were the first outsiders to come in great numbers...

Nice catch. I'd never even questioned the 1.X text.

Statistically speaking, I'd still say the Allagan are still likely to be primarily Elezen due to the fact that if they considered a migratory wave to be an invasion, they would have seen an Empire like a vegan sees a pork chop... but this does leave the door open...

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Ah, specifying "in large numbers" could matter a great bit indeed. The miqo'te/lalafell/rœgadyn presence could have been not large enough for the elezen to bother. It's also possible that their total dominion over Eorzea is overstated: maybe they didn't care for arid Thanalan and so the lalafell taking residence there wasn't a concern since it wasn't much of an active elezen territory (and similar for other regions outside of their apparently dominant Coerthas and the Twelveswood). If so the deal with the hyurs could be that they actually started moving into areas of Eorzea that the elezen cared about.

Do we know anything about when Ul'dah and Sil'dih were actually founded to say that lalafell have been around at least this long? All I see on the timeline is the formation of the Sultansworn and the fall of Sil'dih, both well into 6A.E.

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Originally Posted by Myranda

Ah, specifying "in large numbers" could matter a great bit indeed. The miqo'te/lalafell/rœgadyn presence could have been not large enough for the elezen to bother. It's also possible that their total dominion over Eorzea is overstated: maybe they didn't care for arid Thanalan and so the lalafell taking residence there wasn't a concern since it wasn't much of an active elezen territory (and similar for other regions outside of their apparently dominant Coerthas and the Twelveswood). If so the deal with the hyurs could be that they actually started moving into areas of Eorzea that the elezen cared about.

Do we know anything about when Ul'dah and Sil'dih were actually founded to say that lalafell have been around at least this long? All I see on the timeline is the formation of the Sultansworn and the fall of Sil'dih, both well into 6A.E.

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Well we're told the Grand Companies came together at the end of the Fifth Astral era (1500+ years ago) to get ready for the Sixth Umbral era. And there's no history of a Grand Company that isn't the Immortal Flames, Twin Adders, Maelstorm. So Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa Lominsa were at least founded and established well before this time. And I just assume that the Thaumaturge Shatotto is a Lalafell Thaumaturge, who else could bring down a 'star' and turn it into a weapon only a Lalafell that's who (joking of course, I just wanted to say that). As for the Sil'dih we don't have that history yet, but I assume that if their city was in the Sagoli desert and they had aqueducts all the way to the Copperbell mines that the Sil'dih were around just as long as Ul'dah and both cooperated at least in the beginning.

We might be able to put a date on the foundation of Limsa if we dig deep enough.

I seem to recall hearing from an NPC that the Mizzenmast itself is the remnant of a giant ship that once bearthed in the cove and never left, becoming the foundation of the city-state. The original ship is supposedly that which appears on the standard of Limsa Lominsa.

Maybe someone *cough* could try searching for the dialogue?

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Maybe someone *cough* could try searching for the dialogue?

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You should get that cough checked out. Be a shame if it was the green rot.

Anonymoose cracks open his tomes.

At first, I thought that all this was just contextless legend...

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Originally Posted by Frithuric

You hear the legend of how this city was born? Well, years ago, there was this mighty kingdom far to the south--so far, they say that it would take a man half his life to sail to her shores--and it had an invincible armada of twenty score times ten unsinkable battleships. They conquered nigh on every city for a thousand leagues, and were the unchallenged master of the sea...until, that is, an armada just as invincible as their own invaded their waters.

Both sides fought with the courage of lions and the ferocity of sharks, but the kingdom's fighters, so used to doing the attacking themselves, were unsure how to defend against onslaughts of a similar nature. And so their fleet was nearly destroyed and their cities were completely razed. Only a small fleet of their fastest dromonds was able to escape the carnage under cover of nightfall. It pained the crews to abandon their lands, of course, but they knew flight was the only way to ensure their people lived on.

And so they sailed and they sailed, until one day a terrible storm─some say sent by Llymlaen herself─picked up the few remaining ships and tossed them down upon the rocks of La Noscea. The ships were too badly damaged to be rebuilt, though by this time the men were weary from their journey, and no longer wished to run. And so they salvaged the remnants of their ships and built a tiny settlement on the rocks. Over time that settlement grew...and transformed into the city you see here today.

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Turns out this story was expanded upon in the inn room patches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mytesyn

What exactly did I tell him? No scrap of lore every last Lominsan doesn't already ken. That the city of Limsa Lominsa was built from the wreckage of the mighty Galadion, which ran aground on the rocks of this very bay some seven hundred years past. This tower we stand in now─the Mizzenmast─is called such because it was built by hollowing out the Galadion's actual mizzenmast. That should give ye a good idea of jus' how massive the original ship was. Ah, sorry there, lad. Ye didn't come here for an 'istory lesson, did ye?

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BULLSEYE!

So Ishgard was founded about a thousand years ago, Limsa was founded seven hundred years ago, Gridania was founded five-something years ago (my bet is on hundreds, since thousands would be far too Allagan by my reckoning), and only Ul'dah remains without a date.

That's at least three out of six cities founded after the last appearance of the Grand Companies of Eorzea.
Yet the foundation day events spoke of the "reformation" of the grand companies, not simply their inception.

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Originally Posted by The Harbor Herald

Change is afoot in Limsa Lominsa, and blind is the sailor who has failed to notice. While it is true that our city-state’s wharves are inherently dynamic places, ever-vibrant with the coming and going of vessels, folk, and freight, the changes of which I speak fall not into the daily norm.

The dragon galley has launched—the sleek, black craft on a field of red that is the ensign of the Maelstrom, Limsa Lominsa’s recently revived Grand Company. Pennants bearing the oared dragon now snap and ripple across the city-state, raised at the behest of our military’s brass hats. Their purpose: to kindle citizen morale. It would appear that our leaders have forgotten that Limsa Lominsa is a port of freemen. Did it not occur to them that such an overt display of jingoism would sooner wake a spirit of defiance within hot-blooded sailors than instill them with a sense of unity?

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What in the seven hells is going on here!?!?

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Originally Posted by Catapult

What the hell is going on here!?!?

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Clearly, Grand Company members have been Echoing back a long way!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

BULLSEYE!

So Ishgard was founded about a thousand years ago, Limsa was founded seven hundred years ago, Gridania was founded five-something years ago (my bet is on hundreds, since thousands would be far too Allagan by my reckoning), and only Ul'dah remains without a date.

That's at least three out of six cities founded after the last appearance of the Grand Companies of Eorzea.
Yet the foundation day events spoke of the "reformation" of the grand companies, not simply their inception.

What in the seven hells is going on here!?!?

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Ok so...uh. Kinda throws a wrench into things. At least with the Gridania thing it could be taken as the Twin Adders symbol didn't appear till 500 years ago. But if Gridania was apart of the Eorzean Alliance 1500+ years ago..what was their Grand Company? Scratching my head here.

If Ul'dah was founded until around 972 6A.E. which is the time the Sultan Sworn were formed to protect the Sultan. This becomes even more confusing for me, I just naturally assumed that Shatotto (a Thaumaturge) would be apart of the Thaumaturge guild. Then you have White Mages that abused their power and practically destroyed the art, which would be Gridania..all of these 1500+ years ago.

I wonder if this is too much of a ARR Lore thing for Fern to pop in and give us a little explanation.

/wave I mostly lurk around here but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading the lore forums and the posters here.:-)
On the Grand Companies being older than the cities, I'm probably missing something but does it ever say directly when they disbanded? I mean they may have been formed 1500 years ago but that doesn't mean they weren't active organizations for centuries. They could have been formed in association with older civilizations in Erozea, eventually become associated with the three starting city-states and declined and disbanded fairly recently (only a few centuries ago).

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Originally Posted by Naria

/wave I mostly lurk around here but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading the lore forums and the posters here.:-)
On the Grand Companies being older than the cities, I'm probably missing something but does it ever say directly when they disbanded? I mean they may have been formed 1500 years ago but that doesn't mean they weren't active organizations for centuries. They could have been formed in association with older civilizations in Erozea, eventually become associated with the three starting city-states and declined and disbanded fairly recently (only a few centuries ago).

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Welcome, feel free to join in the conversations and threads.

It most likely is, but the history and npcs tell us that Eorzean Alliance has been reformed. The way it's talked about is as if Ul'dah's Immortal Flames, Gridania's Twin Adders, and Limsa Lominsa's Maelstorm were the Grand Companies that came together at the end of the Fifth Astral era in preparation for the Sixth Umbral era. The revival of the Flames, Adders, and Maelstorm again. But currently there's no Lore stating those 3 Grand Companies were part of different civilizations and the current city-states adopted them.

Sixth Umbral and Seventh Umbral have a lot in common. The Grand Companies forming the Eorzean Alliance and involvement of Archons (at least the rumor/myth is Archons 'causing' the Sixth Umbral).

An alliance was formed between Gridania, Ishgard, Ul'dah, and Limsa Lominsa but there's no involvement of the Grand Companies so that rules out that being the first formation of the Eorzean Alliance, so it has to be the Sixth Astral era.

Hmm I'm curious and confused now. The OP timeline lists the Grand Companies as forming to face the 6th Umbral Era catastrophe, but just thinking back on memories from playing the game I thought they were formed to respond to the initial push of the Empire into Ala Mhigo before the sudden halt of their advance?

Am I just misremembering things? Is the Eorzean Alliance so far separated from the foundation of the GCs? Can anyone provide a direct quote from the game stating one way or the other? I never saved any of the game text myself for later reference...

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Originally Posted by Myranda

Hmm I'm curious and confused now. The OP timeline lists the Grand Companies as forming to face the 6th Umbral Era catastrophe, but just thinking back on memories from playing the game I thought they were formed to respond to the initial push of the Empire into Ala Mhigo before the sudden halt of their advance?

Am I just misremembering things? Is the Eorzean Alliance so far separated from the foundation of the GCs? Can anyone provide a direct quote from the game stating one way or the other? I never saved any of the game text myself for later reference...

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That's the question now that we're realizing WHEN the 3 City-States were founded. The Lore tells us the "first" (I quote first because it may be the freshest memory we have of the Eorzean Alliance/GCs united) time the Grand Companies came together was in preparation for the Sixth Umbral era. Then we adventurers with help of the Circle of Knowing reform the Grand Companies and then the Eorzean Alliance.

But if Limsa Lominsa wasn't founded until 700 years ago and Gridania 500 something (though I still say it may just be the Twin Adders, but then that questions what their Grand Company was at the time of the Sixth Umbral era) and right now there's no date for Ul'dah. It kinda jumbles things up unless Grand Companies existed before the 5 City-States (Ishgard and Ala Mhigo included) were founded. But when we have to ask..what were the civilizations before Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa Lominsa that came together with their Grand Companies for the Sixth Umbral era. There's no Lore of any kind of other civilizations except for Gelmorra, possibly Lym, the Allagan Empire, Sil'dih (which existed ALONG side Ul'dah).

We'll need to keep a close eye on ruins around Eorzea for anything resembling a sigil of a Grand Company. For instance, if we can see a Twin Adder mark or variant inside Gelmorran ruins, we'll know that the Order pre-dates Gridania.

That whole story around the Galladion still bugs me though. The Maelstrom may have existed before the foundation of Limsa, but it would have been on the Southern continent and not a grand company of Eorzea.

http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/...ps37acea6d.jpg


Viola!

Edit: image is from Peace Garden in the Northern Shroud. There are Ixali banners everywhere, but it is empty.

Edit Edit: Maybe it's an underground flower of some sort? Perhaps a Duskwight symbol? As opposed to the above ground Gridania (Lily) one?

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Originally Posted by Llysander

http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/...ps37acea6d.jpg


Viola!

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Why thank you. I think we might be getting somewhere.

If you look closely, the "flower" between the adders is different to the arms of Gridania.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...a_1-01_200.jpg
We might be looking at the arms of Gelmorra and the original Order of the Twin Adder. Call it a hunch.

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Originally Posted by Llysander

http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/...ps37acea6d.jpg


Viola!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Why thank you. I think we might be getting somewhere.

If you look closely, the "flower" between the adders is different to the arms of Gridania.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...a_1-01_200.jpg
We might be looking at the arms of Gelmorra and the original Order of the Twin Adder. Call it a hunch.

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It definitely seems like an older version of the current Twin Adders standard. Did it come from Tam-Tara Deepcroft or the Mun-Tuy Cellars? If it's from the Tam-Tara Deepcroft then I think I might have found some interesting markers. http://ffxivmaps.com/img/dungeon-the...ring-small.png

The Ak-Inik Tomb, the Ak-Mena Tomb, and the Tomb of King Galvanth the Dominator. The last is the most interesting. I doubt he came by the name "The Dominator," in a good way. Now looking at the Elezen Naming Convention thread, Ak-Inik and Ak-Mena, are immediately ruled out as Elezen names and instead are Padjal. Galvanth is not a Padjal name but it may still be an Elezen name even though it doesn't follow the rules of the thread. I had to dig deep for this one..the only creator/map maker I could find was Orrick Ballard, which is a Hyur name. So this means the maps and names were 'created' well after the time of Gelmorra (or at least probably). But all that aside, I think the Tam-Tara Deepcroft is an important place, but it's not part of the Gelmorran ruins. Most of Tam-Tara is referred to as chambers and tombs and there's only 1 connection to Tam-Tara and that's from the Twelveswood. Gelmorra would have had multiple entrances/exits and more evidence of hospitable environments. Also we know Gelmorra is in the north eastern part of the Black Shroud. Tam-Tara is essentially in the middle. And the naming conventions of at least 2/3s of the major points in Tam-Tara are Padjal(i) so I'd assume this site has more to do with the Padjal than Duskwight Elezen.

As for the Twin Adder logo it makes perfect sense now. The Padjal Seed-Seer is in charge of the Twin Adders and is the only one who can reform it. So Tam-Tara being a Padjal (tomb) and having an old Twin Adder banner seems very very likely. I would just then question, who was Galvanth? Maybe Galvanth crowned himself King with support from Ak-Inik and Ak-Mena and made war against whoever and whatever civilizations was here at the time...maybe other Padjal backed by Elementals and Gelmorrans? Maybe a Duskwight and Wildwood Elezen war? The Official Site says the Duskwight Elezen split from the Wildwood Elezen during the founding of Gridania...so maybe Galvanth was a Duskwight Elezen who went against Gridania and Padjal participated in the conflict.

If you were to blow that picture up and show the entire artwork, I wonder if the 5 flowers have a significant meaning. Maybe meaning the Fifth Umbral/Astral era? A reasonable time for the Twelveswood to have begun to be occupied by the Elezen. Also the flower on the current Twin Adder logo resembles a gardenia...Gridania...Gardenia. The old one just looks like dandelions, of course I'm not a botanist (least irl).

Edit: It's Ak-Mena and not Ak-Meng, just a mistranslation on their map lol.

Well, the image above can't be from the Tam-Tara deepcroft. It features an Ixali Banner, as if this location has been taken over by the Ixal.

That's not something I'm seeing in what we have come to know about the Deepcroft as an instanced raid:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...anced-Dungeons

Edit: Galvanth the Dominator is visible in this video by name at 2:54 on the target bar at the top of the UI.

Edit Edit: I'm not sure if I'm ready to unpack the mysteries surrounding the deepcroft just yet, but for now I'm inclined to suspect that Llysander's screenshot could be from a small Gelmorran ruin, although it could indeed be a padjali tomb. By Nophica, it occurs to me we don't even know when the Padjal came into existance - I've been assuming it was at the foundation of Gridania with the "pact of Gelmorra" but I have almost no evidence to back this assertion up.

Edit Edit Edit: That Twin Adder logo is also found behind the cultist rosary at 1:40 in the video as well. You may be closer to the mark than I thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Well, the image above can't be from the Tam-Tara deepcroft. It features an Ixali Banner, as if this location has been taken over by the Ixal.

That's not something I'm seeing in what we have come to know about the Deepcroft as an instanced raid:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...anced-Dungeons

Edit: Galvanth the Dominator is visible in this video by name at 2:54 on the target bar at the top of the UI.

Edit Edit: I'm not sure if I'm ready to unpack the mysteries surrounding the deepcroft just yet, but for now I'm inclined to suspect that Llysander's screenshot could be from a small Gelmorran ruin, although it could indeed be a padjali tomb. By Nophica, it occurs to me we don't even know when the Padjal came into existance - I've been assuming it was at the foundation of Gridania with the "pact of Gelmorra" but I have almost no evidence to back this assertion up.

Edit Edit Edit: That Twin Adder logo is also found behind the cultist rosary at 1:40 in the video as well. You may be closer to the mark than I thought.

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Tam-Tara, Mun-Tuy, Toto-Rak. All Padjal names. But yeah like you said, now we need to question when/where the Padjal came to be. If Padjal are suppose to live forever and be ageless, I wonder why they have tombs. Maybe disease and old age can't kill them but a blade to the neck can? Which for me would point things in the direction of war, how else and why would the Padjal need tombs.

The Padjal kinda favor Elezen and Hyur, so it really makes me wonder...

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Sixth Umbral Era - Element: Water

1500 (YA) ---

• A Great Flood submerges and damages many parts of Eorzea. Possibly caused by Urianger and the Archons.

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"Alas, man began perverting its powers for self-gain, and by his wickedness brought about the Sixth Umbral catastrophe."
Taken from the WHM page http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/game/jobs/white-mage

So through the misuse of white magic the sixth umbral era came in...
White Mages should not be taken so lightly :P

The cat is amused =^.^=

So much win!!! (Yes I am only just seeing this thread :P)

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

"Alas, man began perverting its powers for self-gain, and by his wickedness brought about the Sixth Umbral catastrophe."
Taken from the WHM page http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/game/jobs/white-mage

So through the misuse of white magic the sixth umbral era came in...
White Mages should not be taken so lightly :P

The cat is amused =^.^=

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Nice catch, I wonder when they added/changed this around. White Mages, like Conjurers, work with Stone, Water, and Wind...so considering the Umbral Era is a Flood, that's very interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shane239

So much win!!! (Yes I am only just seeing this thread :P)

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Thank you kind sir.

Now that you bring it up, I think we can stand to remove the "possibly caused by Urianger and the Archony" anyway. I'm looking forward to writing a special Lore Train about the Archons as soon as this bigger project is wrapped up, but suffice it to say that I'm quite confident it was a red herring all along, at the very least with respect to Urianger himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Now that you bring it up, I think we can stand to remove the "possibly caused by Urianger and the Archony" anyway. I'm looking forward to writing a special Lore Train about the Archons as soon as this bigger project is wrapped up, but suffice it to say that I'm quite confident it was a red herring all along, at the very least with respect to Urianger himself.

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Seconding this one. Moose's theory is rather sound and you're in for a treat.

It could be a red herring indeed, but it's still funny the Archons are mentioned along side another Umbral era. I still don't think they're all that "nice" and perfect. Their job after all could be to make sure the Astral and Umbral eras are ushered in according to some kind of plan. Looking forward to the theory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Tam-Tara, Mun-Tuy, Toto-Rak. All Padjal names. But yeah like you said, now we need to question when/where the Padjal came to be. If Padjal are suppose to live forever and be ageless, I wonder why they have tombs. Maybe disease and old age can't kill them but a blade to the neck can? Which for me would point things in the direction of war, how else and why would the Padjal need tombs.

The Padjal kinda favor Elezen and Hyur, so it really makes me wonder...

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I don't think they are Padjal names... I thought they where old areas from Gelmorra? I think Tam-Tara is an old tomb that is stilled used as a burial site. Toto-Rak and Mun-Tuy could be the same but I don't think they where used are graves like Tam-Tara. Since Gelmorra was Elezen I would say they are Elezen names... no?

The cat is amused =^.^=

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

I don't think they are Padjal names... I thought they where old areas from Gelmorra? I think Tam-Tara is an old tomb that is stilled used as a burial site. Toto-Rak and Mun-Tuy could be the same but I don't think they where used are graves like Tam-Tara. Since Gelmorra was Elezen I would say they are Elezen names... no?

The cat is amused =^.^=

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They're Padjal. They would be 1 word if they were Elezen, like Gelmorra. Padjal it would be something like Gel-Morra. The closest place to the Gelmorran ruins in the northwest Twelveswood is the Mun-Tuy cellar. Which wasn't a place of living, it was just what the name implies a cellar. The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak is based on a beast from the Padjal mythology. And the Tam-Tara Deepcroft as we know now has Padjal involvement with the Ak-Inik and Ak-Mena tombs. So hyphenated places like these are based on the Padjal language or whatever they call it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

I don't think they are Padjal names... I thought they where old areas from Gelmorra? I think Tam-Tara is an old tomb that is stilled used as a burial site. Toto-Rak and Mun-Tuy could be the same but I don't think they where used are graves like Tam-Tara. Since Gelmorra was Elezen I would say they are Elezen names... no?

The cat is amused =^.^=

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You may want to have a gander at this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Hello all,

Allow me take a few moments to shed a little light on the naming conventions used for Padjals.

First off, the language that the names are based off of is that of the Ainu peoples, indigenous to northern Japan.

Here are a few real-world examples of that language:

sir e-tok : the edge of the world
nupe : tears
pon : small
wakka : clear water

We aren't using that language as-is, but have tried to create something unique based off the spellings, sounds, syllable count, and overall feel of the words.

Here are the rules for the names:

1. All are comprised of three words.

2. The first two are the forename, and the final word is the surname.

3. The first name is constructed of simple vowel-based word (E, Ae, Uo, I, Ea, etc.) combined with a longer companion word. In the case of males, the vowel-based word comes first. In the case of females, it comes second.

Male:
E-Sumi-Yan
O-App-Pesi

Female:
Kan-E-Senna
Raya-O-Senna

4. Words in the Padjal language are normally separated by spaces. However, when a group of words forms a single concept (such as a proper noun, or a compound word), they are connected with hyphens.

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In addition to NPC names, the ancient language can be seen used in names of sacred locations around the Twelveswood. If a name is Padjali, you can assume that the location has been there for a long time.

Place names:
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (a beast from Padjali mythology)
Tam-Tara Deepcroft

Enemy names:
Ak-Inik varlet -> servant of the Inik house
Ak-Mena varlet -> servant of the Mena house (Ak being the honorific prefix attached to a deceased member of a house)

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There was also a question about how a Padjal gets their name (considering they start off as Hyur).

There are several old Hyur families in Gridania which consistently (albeit rarely) produce Padjals. Those include the Senna, the Yan, and the Pesi families. (Note the family names still possess the Padjali linguistic roots).

When a baby is born to one of these families, he or she is given a "normal" Hyur name, as is the custom (i.e. Bryce Senna).

When it is learned that the child is a Padjal, they are given a new first name based off the ancient Padjali tongue, and accepted into Stillglade Fane for their indoctrination.

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Hope that clears things up a bit!

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Allllmost finished with the bigger project we've been working on, but I wanted to take a moment to possibly aid the frustration Catapult is having with the alliance dating, provided he hasn't already tried this: I would try seeing if it's any clearer if you separate mentions of the "Grand Companies of Eorzea" from mentions of the "Eorzean Alliance." They appear to be different entities, as this is said shortly after defeating Garuda:

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Originally Posted by Nation Leader

It was the Eorzean Alliance the brought together the nation-states of Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, and Ul'dah only ten years past. In the beginnings, it bound even Ishgard to the common cause. Yet the mountain nation withdrew from the union but a short while after its formation, taking their land forces with them. Thence did the Eorzean Alliance quickly become an alliance in name alone.

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EDIT
Though... maybe it's not fit to trust it entirely. One NPC says that the Alliance was forged ten years ago and the Empire took Ala Mhigo shortly after... that's not even close to reconcilable, is it? That's just a blatant error.

I believe that it means to say that the Alliance was formed 10 years ago after the Battle of Silvertear Skies, but because they returned to Ala Mhigo and didn't press the invasion further after this, Ishgard backed out and we went back to being complacent.

Yeah, they are two separate concepts. The Eorzean Alliance is not dependant upon the Grand Companies or vice-versa.

http://static.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl...ext.png?_v=8r9

The companies are a mechanism that can serve an alliance, but are not their foundation. I've been using this as my basis from the get go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

The companies are a mechanism that can serve an alliance, but are not their foundation. I've been using this as my basis from the get go.

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Reading that image for the first time in a while, I'd side with the idea that the old companies just weren't necessarily the same cities we have now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

You may want to have a gander at this:

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Ah thanks Catapult I completely forgot about that... hmmmm Tam-Tara is the tomb however I don't think it is for only Padjal... maybe the families and as it says for the Ak-Inik and Ak-Mena the family servants... If I remember right I believe it was said that they still use Tam-Tara to bury the dead. So then what was Muy-Tuy and Toto-Rak used for? Also in the Instance dungeon vid they put out you can see the Ak-Inik and Ak-Mena... they all appear to be hyur...

The cat is amused =^.^=

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

Ah thanks Catapult I completely forgot about that... hmmmm Tam-Tara is the tomb however I don't think it is for only Padjal... maybe the families and as it says for the Ak-Inik and Ak-Mena the family servants... If I remember right I believe it was said that they still use Tam-Tara to bury the dead. So then what was Muy-Tuy and Toto-Rak used for? Also in the Instance dungeon vid they put out you can see the Ak-Inik and Ak-Mena... they all appear to be hyur...

The cat is amused =^.^=

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Toto-Rak seemed to be some kind of a prison like place. Many of the placenames on its map mentioned things like the interrogation chamber and what not.

Mun-Tuy was a cellars, so used for brewing and storing wine/spirits. Its map refers to aging rooms and a yeast storage room.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Reading that image for the first time in a while, I'd side with the idea that the old companies just weren't necessarily the same cities we have now.

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That is where I'm leaning, but even though that might resolve the Adders and Flames, it still makes it difficult to explain the Maelstrom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myranda

Toto-Rak seemed to be some kind of a prison like place.

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That's about what it is. It was used as a dungeon until they decided that it wasn't in line with their values. Even now the place is wrought with woodsin.

So I was watching Their Finest Hour, An Officer and a Wise Man, and Burning Man quests (the reformation of the GC with the GC leader speeches). 2 things stood out to me. In An Officer and a Wise Man Y'shtola refers to the Archon leader as being called the Allseer and that he's come to the city-states to look for the Daybreak - a blade mentioned in the Divine Chronicles. Then in Burning Man Thancred says that their leader "quit our remote and learned little isle," and that "one can never have enough scholars of the prophecies in times such as these." So indeed Sharlayan is on a 'little' island and Louisoix is the 'Allseer' which is funny enough similar to Kan-E-Senna's title of Elder Seedseer and the Holy See of Ishgard.

As for the blade Daybreak...I think that probably refers to us Adventurers, which would make sense since Louisoix pretty much chose us for the "hard" missions and then in the act of defending us, sent us away into stasis so we would not perish to Bahamut (at the time).

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Ne'er till land consumes sun can sea bear moons, Heavens spew crimson flame, hells seep black dooms. Stray seeds quicken in ash's gray embrace, Valiant blades forged under the Twelve's good grace.

Seven waning moons see seven suns rise, Divine order roils, fallen corpses writhe. Souls from aether far, strangers from strange lands, Yester with thine eyes, morrow by thine hands.

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Louisoix's blessing could be that of the Twelve. And Daybreak is never mentioned again, probably because he found it, better yet us.

Another thing I noticed while gandering at the Twin Adders page.

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Eldest of three siblings of Padjali ancestry, Kan-E serves as head of the Seedseer Council─the central governing body presiding over affairs within the city-state of Gridania. As is common amongst those born of the prestigious Senna line, Kan-E was blessed by the Twelve with the gift of prophecy, her visions hauntingly clear and detailed. Before reaching her sixth nameday, she had already predicted a devastating fire and a locust infestation, earning her remarkably early admission to Stillglade Fane. After becoming a Sister of the Twelveswood, it was not long before she had risen to Elder Seedseer and left Gridania to live in the forest with her siblings, where she served the city-state by communing with the elementals, maintaining the delicate balance betwixt man and nature.

As the number of rumors regarding unnatural phenomena began to swell, however, Kan-E was left with no choice but to return to the city-state and assess her options. So it was that she decreed the reinstatement of the Order of the Twin Adder. A woman who has earned the respect of her people by always letting her actions speak as loud as her words, her affable demeanor belies the brave heart which beats beneath her tiny breast.

Motto: No road is closed to those true of heart.
Weapon: Claustrum─a legendary staff carved from the branch of a tree said to have survived the sixth Umbral Era.

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So the bold surprised me and I had to re-read it a second time. Her power seems awfully close to that of the Echo. Yes the Echo is the past but Minfilia tells us that there are those with the Echo who saw what is at the end of the Path..which I believe to have been something involving Dalamud. The second time we see the 'starshower' it looks more like what we witnessed with Dalamud than the first 'starshower' which looked like the impact, explosion, and release of the Primals in Mor Dhona. Also as Catapult will tell us, when we use the Echo with one of the Padjal (I don't know her name since I'm more familiar with Ul'dah than Gridania) she seems to know what we're doing and forces us out. So though they may be opposites of Future and Past, they may be more alike than we know.

A lot to cover here....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

In An Officer and a Wise Man Y'shtola refers to the Archon leader as being called the Allseer and that he's come to the city-states to look for the Daybreak - a blade mentioned in the Divine Chronicles.

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Déja Vu, buddy. Moose and I were pondering this as well just a few nights ago. I'm not going to steal his thunder, though, because he has a few things in the works. But suffice to say, I have a hunch we may be talking about something more literal this time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

...Louisoix is the 'Allseer' which is funny enough similar to Kan-E-Senna's title of Elder Seedseer and the Holy See of Ishgard.

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The term Holy See is a term used in the Catholic Church to denote the "country" ruled by the Pope. Or in our case, the Archbishop of the Holy See of Ishgard.

We honestly don't know much about Sharlayan, the city. If it even is a city. I'm starting to picture more of a village attached to a university.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Her power seems awfully close to that of the Echo. Yes the Echo is the past but Minfilia tells us that there are those with the Echo who saw what is at the end of the Path..which I believe to have been something involving Dalamud. The second time we see the 'starshower' it looks more like what we witnessed with Dalamud than the first 'starshower' which looked like the impact, explosion, and release of the Primals in Mor Dhona. Also as Catapult will tell us, when we use the Echo with one of the Padjal (I don't know her name since I'm more familiar with Ul'dah than Gridania) she seems to know what we're doing and forces us out. So though they may be opposites of Future and Past, they may be more alike than we know.

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I'm not sure if I entirely agree with you. I think we have more of a midichlorian-thing going on here through here highly sensitive communion with the elementals, who have a habit of spitting out prophecies from time to time.
As for using the echo on Raya-O, that wouldn't be the first time someone has noticed what you're doing, although she seems actually know what the feeling means.

Remember, the game text mentioned the concept of the end of the path when the plan was still to visit Dalamud, not drop it and break it open.