{Backsteps} {No Thanks}

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post918929

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Man, these games are getting to the point where I wonder whether it's a third person shooter/Hack 'n' slash or, you know, an MMORPG.

But anyway, that's kinda pretty and all, but... how is it any more efficient? Or heck, how in hell is it any more comfortable?

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Your camera angle is incorrect. The way you have it drawn is as if it's in first person. When you flip camera it just flips 180 degrees it doesn't go into first person view.

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As I noted the camera angles are for mouse turning, not flipping the screen. I covered both.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

Man, these games are getting to the point where I wonder whether it's a third person shooter/Hack 'n' slash or, you know an MMORPG.

But anyway, that's kinda pretty and all, but... how is it any more efficient? Or heck, how in hell is it any more comfortable?

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I actually can't stand to play FFXIV 1.0 with keyboard and mouse. I actually play with a controller because of this. For me backpedaling and strafing is a must to play with keyboard and mouse. You sort of get this in 1.0 when you lock onto target, however it's still weird because your movements become restricted and can't strafe in one direction. You end up rotating around the target and have to toggle off the lockon target to get out of it.

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Originally Posted by Coyohma

As I noted the camera angles are for mouse turning, not flipping the screen. I covered both.

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It's still not right. You have drawn the camera in first person.

This thread is just... wow.

Yeah, we all haven't tried a controller in alpha...

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I actually can't stand to play FFXIV 1.0 with keyboard and mouse. I actually play with a controller because of this. For me backpedaling and strafing is a must to play with keyboard and mouse. You sort of get this in 1.0 when you lock onto target, however it's still weird because your movements become restricted and can't strafe in one direction. You end up rotating around the target and have to toggle off the lockon target to get out of it.

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Well yeah, I guess I can see why backpedaling and strafing would be more comfortable with keyboard and mouse, but not at all with a gamepad (I still consider keyboard/mouse uncomfortable as hell regardless of controls, though). More of a reason to include both as an option, right? I really, really hope that's what they'll do.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

This thread is just... wow.

Yeah, we all haven't tried a controller in alpha...

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[sarcasm]My, there are people expressing their opinions and concerns regarding an aspect of the game in a space created for discussing aspects of the game. Wow...[/sarcasm]

Yes, I expect we will see both options in Beta or there will be an uproar with the controller users . Alpha was just keyboard/mouse only.

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* The Alpha Test will focus on keyboard and mouse UI tests. Gamepads are not supported

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http://entry.ffxiv.com/alpha/index_na.html

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Originally Posted by Rau

youll have to learn to use the flip camera button :(

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I like being able to backpedal/run backwards and would love having a flip camera button more than the removal of backward movement without targeting.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Yes, I expect we will see both options in Beta or there will be an uproar with the controller users . Alpha was just keyboard/mouse only.


http://entry.ffxiv.com/alpha/index_na.html

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Yep, that's why they are working on the UI controller for controller lovers.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

[sarcasm]My, there are people expressing their opinions and concerns regarding an aspect of the game in a space created for discussing aspects of the game. Wow...[/sarcasm]

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Haha, well that's very true. ^____^;

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

It's still not right. You have drawn the camera in first person.

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At no point in your video do I see you turn around and run backwards in a straight line. I don't think we're on the same page.

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Originally Posted by Coyohma

At no point in your video do I see you turn around and run backwards in a straight line. I don't think we're on the same page.

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I never claimed that, mouse turning is analog so it's very hard to do a perfect 180 degree turn. I do flip directions instantly with just keyboard and mouse to run in the opposite direction then make minor adjustments to my direction.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I never claimed that, mouse turning is analog so it's very hard to do a perfect 180 degree turn. I do flip directions instantly with just keyboard and mouse to run in the opposite direction then make minor adjustments to my direction.

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You tell me how friendly is keyboard and mouse in FFXI and FFXIV 1.xx comparing to other MMOs. lol

Yep, both games were based on controller actions.

Right, I played FFXI a long time ago with a keyboard and mouse. I can't remember how it was, but I do remember it was designed for controller as well.

Sadly, not many people can understand it very well since they have played FFXI too much lately.

I tried in alpha and let me tell you what... It's really possible to be running back with your controller for those people who are hoping for without affecting K/M users.

XI's keyboard layout was so different from pretty much anything, lol. You could control your char single handed with a keyboard, but it wasn't exactly comfortable. The mouse was pretty much useless in that game. Well, I supposed mouse+keyboard could have been useful for claiming if you had like jedi reflexes or something, but other than that...

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Originally Posted by Zehira

Sadly, not many people can understand it very well since they have played FFXI too much lately.

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Haven't played it for over 3 years now and probably never will do it again. Still can't understand it nor do I like it.

Either way, it's not like I can't imagine any other MMO not playing like XI like some people seem to think regarding the "gamepad bunch". I have played others, and that's the only one that plays that way.

It is just a matter of preference really, which stems not from just that one game, but from having grown on consoles and not PC games. Well, at least in my case anyway.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I never claimed that, mouse turning is analog so it's very hard to do a perfect 180 degree turn. I do flip directions instantly with just keyboard and mouse to run in the opposite direction then make minor adjustments to my direction.

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And going back to my point, flipping the screen is inferior to simply running away from the direction you were facing. It takes pressing something unnecessary -then you get to watch as your screen wraps you around.. which is arguably jarring if you do it often. And then you can begin running away.

All of that is inferior (meaning slower, more annoying) to hitting a direction and your character running that way.

I played with both controller and keyboard. I didn't see much of a difference, and I just can't understand the big deal with people who freak over the controllers...it's the same thing, except you have limited buttons. Anyways, that's not the point. The point is...

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Originally Posted by every single person on these forums

http://i.imgur.com/k88b2.jpg

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Originally Posted by V3rdict

I played with both controller and keyboard. I didn't see much of a difference, and I just can't understand the big deal with people who freak over the controllers...it's the same thing, except you have limited buttons. Anyways, that's not the point. The point is...

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Annnnnnd! That's Your "Verdict" XD

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Originally Posted by V3rdict

I played with both controller and keyboard. I didn't see much of a difference, and I just can't understand the big deal with people who freak over the controllers...it's the same thing, except you have limited buttons. Anyways, that's not the point. The point is...

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No, the point is... this thread should be on hold until beta. o_o;

Oh my.

If it isn't semantics, it's aesthetics. I'm just gonna go play the game...

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Originally Posted by Coyohma

And going back to my point, flipping the screen is inferior to simply running away from the direction you were facing. It takes pressing something unnecessary -then you get to watch as your screen wraps you around.. which is arguably jarring if you do it often. And then you can begin running away.

All of that is inferior (meaning slower, more annoying) to hitting a direction and your character running that way.

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The thing is, it actually does take less to do that on a keyboard than it does on a gamepad. Likewise, moving the way 1.0 or console games do on a keyboard is more tiresome. You try moving like that on a keyboard, and you'll have 3 of your fingers dancing around your WASD keys, while with the standard keyboard/mouse movement controls it could take only one key and a movement of the mouse with your other hand.

I definitely can see how it is nicer for keyboard and mouse users, but being mostly a gamepad user I can also see why it's pretty uncomfortable on a gamepad. That's why I hope they'll deliver both options (which apparently they might).

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Originally Posted by Klefth

I think this sucks, too. Being able to run back is a lot better, not to mention it's much nicer on a controller than having to turn your camera around completely in order to run.

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Man you must suck playing Armored Core

Hmm... Well I primarily played with the controller during 1.0. Not sure how backpedaling will be with the controls...

I'll just wait and see when the game comes out.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

I'll just wait and see when the game comes out.

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Wait, you are not over 18 age to be in beta...? :(

I am not sure what your point is though.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

No, the point is... this thread should be on hold until beta. o_o;

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I agree. Beta will probably support both types of movements. You probably will able to switch to controller UI and use keyboard and mouse just like FFXIV 1.0.

This topic drives me nuts because of people who are not used to using either using standard keyboard/mouse mmorpg controls, console controller controls, or got used to using keyboard/mouse in FFXI/FFXIV. They can't see the other people point of view.

What I found:
- Movement relative to character is best with keyboard/mouse. This is ARR Alpha behavior.
- Movement relative to camera is best with controller. This is FFXIV 1.0 behavior.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Man you must suck playing Armored Core

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...84/709/7ae.png

That is a third person shooter. You're talking about a completely different beast altogether. It's like trying to compare apples to staplers.

Having to turn my camera around is something I would obviously expect in that sort of game or in a first person one -controller or keyboard/mouse alike (I'd also rather use the latter in that sort of game if given the option, obviously), but that is not what we're talking about in here.

Next you'll bring an RTS/MOBA as an example? Oh wait, I think some people have already done that...

Maybe for K/M users it would be bearable, but what about those of us who use keyboard only? (well in 1.x)..

I can imagine it being a pain in the butt to rotate the camera a full 180 degrees before you can run away if playing without a mouse.. Tbh 1.x controls were godlike.

You know, if I was sword fighting someone, I would most certainly be walking backwards with my shield up, not run with my back towards them while they throw any sharp object at my back.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

Wait, you are not over 18 age to be in beta...? :(

I am not sure what your point is though.

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Not over 18 age!? Beta!? Hunh? :confused:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/24162093.jpg

The tester agreement requires you to be 18 or over. Zehira was just guessing you're too young because you said you had to wait till game is released. LOL

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You know, if I was sword fighting someone, I would most certainly be walking backwards with my shield up, not run with my back towards them while they throw any sharp object at my back.

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B-but... but...! While fighting in this game... you... ARGH! SERIOUSLY!? THIS AGAIN!? WHY!? D:<

Edit for clarity: THAT IS EXACTLY THE WAY IT WORKED WHILE YOU WERE FIGHTING ANYWAY.

Jeez... .-.

Seriously though, going by your logic... if you were sword fighting someone, and this someone tossed a grenade at your feet (yeah, I know...)... would you slowly back away while facing it, or would you run away from it as fast as you could?

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

The tester agreement requires you to be 18 or over. Zehira was just guessing you're too young because you said you had to wait till game is released. LOL

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Oh. lol Had me all confused. Well, I'm over 18 yes. But I really wouldn't be surprised if beta was't controller compatible, so I'll probably have to wait and see how controllers work with the game when it's officially released.

I see in road map it won't be till Phase 2 when controller will be implemented:

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Beta Test Phase 2
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- Gamepad control will be implemented.
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- In addition to the above, the following is also scheduled:
Gamepad control adjustments & feedback confirmation

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http://gdl.square-enix.com/ffxiv/dow...Roadmap_EN.pdf

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Thankfully the developers have said multiple times, movement like 1.0 (No backpedaling if not locked on target) Will return, so people have options.

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I don't recall anyone saying that. Was it from a translation?

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Oh. lol Had me all confused. Well, I'm over 18 yes.

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Haha, you had me confused too. Well, that's good! X3

Beta will have a controller support.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You know, if I was sword fighting someone, I would most certainly be walking backwards with my shield up, not run with my back towards them while they throw any sharp object at my back.

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This is of course true, however it is the speed which to my mind is the real problem with the backwards movement. If there were as there is for moving forward walk and run, for moving away from a target backwards two similar options. Walk and a backwards type jog/trot ? or whatever term, it would be a lot better.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Thankfully the developers have said multiple times, movement like 1.0 (No backpedaling if not locked on target) Will return, so people have options.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Could you find that source? I'm curious too see. I'm pretty up to date with the news, but I can't recall seeing it.

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I too would be interested in seeing this verified. Having both these as options is something I personally would prefer.

I liked it how it was in 1.x.

Lock on target -> Backstepping
Lock out target -> Run back

If you are locked on an enemy it takes just a pressing of the L3 button on a PS3 controller, and BAM BLOOP! Run back from the target!

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Originally Posted by Klefth

B-but... but...! While fighting in this game... you... ARGH! SERIOUSLY!? THIS AGAIN!? WHY!? D:<

Edit for clarity: THAT IS EXACTLY THE WAY IT WORKED WHILE YOU WERE FIGHTING ANYWAY.

Jeez... .-.

Seriously though, going by your logic... if you were sword fighting someone, and this someone tossed a grenade at your feet (yeah, I know...)... would you slowly back away while facing it, or would you run away from it as fast as you could?

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No, it only worked that way if you locked. And locking restricted your movements in other ways.

Backpedaling is also something people from other MMOs outside of a select few expect to happen. Especially when it involves fighting other players, which of course is not the main theme for this game. But being able to instantly switch facing kills part of the action, mostly when things work/don't work based on if you're behind the target or not.

Idk does not bother me at all been moving chars the way mmo's do movement since Jet force Gemini on N64 so it all feels good to me. Dungeon Defenders for ps3 does the same movement as well all feels good to me on controller.