except for the part that many people decline party invites. Even if there's multiple people fighting same mobs, they still don't wanna party....quite strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosx
ARR class progression
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01-12-2013, 10:40 PMRadacci
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01-12-2013, 11:58 PMXeroeth
Yep, I always liked dungeon exping. Leves are best if you have static group, than you link and lvl's are going like crazy.
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01-13-2013, 12:00 AMKoujiGeki
gonna exp party even with lower xp. repeating quests are not fun.
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01-13-2013, 04:47 AMstrallaalaathat's the problem for me, i don't want to do it when it's lower i expect it to be the best method or there is zero reason to do so. why do something for less and at same time gotta spend time putting it together. dungeon leveling is ok, but i just love the go to camp and pound it out for hours method, my brain don't try to trick me into thinking running around doing other things makes it less grindy, i see it as more grindy that way. 5hours to max level is 5hours to max level no matter what. to me it's forced party play or you simply didn't create a mmo that i want to play. let it burn to the ground like the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
i'd say to late for ffxiv but they should create a auto grouping system for regular grinding. that way even the 30minute player can jump right into a group and grind ala ffxi type of exp and still get stuff done. log in ..hit search, finds your group and go there. is funny cause we all bitch at the systems but simple tweaks would fix the things they complain about rather then scrapping it all together.
i want to be a strong believer in mmo's that are made for both the solo and party, for both casual and the hardcore, but so far they have all sucked ass, they are all mostly the solo or casual. companies are to stupid, cheap or don't care to make a game that is equal. there mind set is go with the money then hey everyone else we got these breadcrumbs for you, take it or leave it, though they don't' say that, they make it like they are giving us the world when they are not.
ffxi had shit tons to do solo on top of all the forced party play stuff. it was perfect in my eyes. people aren't here to level in a slower fashion just cause it's there preference. almost no one does that, i sure as heck won't. i just see it then as a mmo not built for me and i will leave. -
01-13-2013, 05:10 AMJennika
You're probably not going to find 20 dodos standing in a 20 meter circle anymore. I love how a few people are stating that they will grind mobs no matter what. What if mobs give 10 xp each and they are spaced far apart across the zone?
I'm fairly confident that there will be enough content to level us up: xp quests, class quests, F.A.T.E., dungeons, and who knows what else there will be. Remember that resting xp will also be alot more convenient to obtain.
We're not in Beta yet and people are already complaining about things they don't know much about. Maybe they should wait until Beta so they can actually make an argument. -
01-13-2013, 05:31 AMFelisOnly if your level is too high. I guess they give still more than 10 exp, but not 500+ exp anymore. I think this is ok, it was too fast in 1.x.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennika
There is no fun in an exp party if you get your level up in 1 hour or less. -
01-13-2013, 06:11 AMSidRheingoldhttp://img545.imageshack.us/img545/467/whai.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Felis
You mean from Lv60 onwards, do you? <(^_^; ) -
01-13-2013, 06:20 AMKoujiGekithats your opinion. Its like i say all the time. WHY CANT SE FIND A HAPPY MEDIUM? WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER? Seriously Why not have 2 ways to lvl up so everyone is happy dont wanna spam quest over and over, or ppl who dont wanna grind. Nope Fuck the people who wanna grind party we are gonna lower the xp to force them to do lame as quest. Just like SE made it that mages cant move instead of making them able to at least WALK at walking speed a melee can catch up. NOPE FUCK EM for Pvp no happy medium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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01-13-2013, 06:55 AMXatsh
SE wants to remove mob grinding because it is not fun... SE forgot that most people hate solo quest grinding as well. One is only good for those with alot of time, one is only good for short periods of time.
It is foolish to penalize people for leveling outside quest/dungeons/fate. Just make it an option (worthwhile xp/hr)... then everyone is happy. That is the main issue with mainstream, anything that is not the casual option is being removed.
The way it worked in 1.0 was fine. All they had to do was make it were if a high level hits a mob it kills the xp gain and lower the xp gained by about 30-40% and it would of been perfect in the original version. -
01-13-2013, 06:57 AMNixWhile old fashioned grinding might not be up to snuff, they will have dungeon grinding which is said to give quite a bit of xp. So think of it as like loot with lots of xp on the side!Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
Edit: kinda hoping that dungeon grinding will be as efficient xp-wise as 1.0's party grinding, but with less fighting over lucrative camps since you'll all be in an instance. Though I think if grinding mobs doesn't turn out to be good enough I can see that getting adjusted in the future. -
01-13-2013, 07:00 AMXatshRunning the same dungeon over and over and over again gets horribly boring. Also unless they remove the cooldowns for re-entree dungeon leveling will not even be the most effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nix
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01-13-2013, 07:03 AMNixFor sure ; ;, though I'm hoping they will add in many more dungeons to make that side of grinding quite fun/varied instead of "Ok, let's re-run tam-tara for the 50th time today /cry"Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
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01-13-2013, 07:51 AMRamessesI thought Yoshi just explained that the dungeons are now at least three times their current size? With some people on the forums mentioning rumours that some dungeons may even have a dynamic ability to randomly change layouts? That's not enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
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01-13-2013, 08:28 AMAngelas
When its all said and done I have a feeling the people who are so keen on the questing for exp might welcome back a grind system. Although grinding can be tedious reducing the exp to force people to quest seems a bit forced to me. For example how much running around will you do for exp? How much exp? How quickly can you gain exp per hour by questing? This will all play a huge factor in how successful the system is.
I also believe this is to reduce gil-farmers leveling quickly as you will actually have to go through quests to get exp, not as much fun for the players but a system to reduce botting etc... so I see what they are doing. I am not so happy with the change but I will reserve my final critiques for after playing in the Beta. -
01-13-2013, 02:34 PMmbncd
I just hope that crafting and gathering gets the same range of levelling options as combative classes. In general, the very vast majority of quests are for combative classes or errand running that can also be done by combative classes. I'd love to see a lot more quests for gathering and crafting, and some group levelling options for crafting and gathering. If Yoshi&co doesn't think pure combat grinding is not good enough for the 8 (or 9 after Arcanist comes out) combative classes, why would pure crafting/gathering grinding be good enough for the 8 crafting classes and 3 gathering classes? Quest grinding should be an option for all disciplines, not just a couple. Crafting/gathering/combat grinding should be an option too of course but only an option, not a compulsory part of levelling any one class any more than it is for the combative classes.
And this is coming from someone who already has all crafting and gathering classes to 50 and still needs to do some combative levelling so I'm not asking for this for myself, but rather for the crafters and gatherers that come after and deserve to be treated fairly. We don't just need enough quests to level 8 or 9 classes, we need enough to level 19 or 20 classes.
Crafters and gatherers need story lined quests and memorable characters and something to change up their levelling with more often than 1 guild based quest every 5-10 levels, aside from their errand running quests which they probably already did on combative classes.
I'd love it if crafters and gatherers even got some FATE group crafting/gathering events too. Say you're training BSM/ARM in Limsa's guild (it's the one guild for both classes if anyone is unfamiliar with it) and a furnace blows up. All of the BSM/ARM training players there can rush to repair the damage, helping the guild, getting crafting experience, working in a team for a common goal, maybe getting some sort of crafting related rewards or some sort of respect within the guild for services rendered that could help unlock other things in the store or other quests.
There's no reason for a crafter to spend their entire time levelling a craft by sitting in one spot making hundreds of the same item all day and night, then changing the item once you get too little experience from it. Gathering is slightly more active and social but not by much. I did it all as a means to an end but it lacked in so many ways that it was not enjoyable in and of itself to me. The vast majority, I think, only levelled crafting and gathering as a means to an end, to get some item or to be able to make something for someone they care about or to make money. It seems as though it was designed to test people's ability to stick though monotony or read a book while "playing". Combat and combat related content on the other hand is typically designed to be fun in it's own right, whether you're at 50 already or getting there.
I'm not saying have the crafters and gatherers able to take down Darnus hard mode, just to give them similar ranges of content and things to immerse themselves in that aren't quite so monotonous, and to give them things that only they can do on a regular basis, just like the combative classes get.
TL;DR: A lot of people focus on the mob grind vs quest grind issue of levelling combative classes. I'm trying to present this from the drastically underdeveloped angle of crafting/gathering the same item vs quest grind (of quests actually involving crafting/gathering more often then once every 5-10 levels). Let's see a range of options for all disciplines, rather than the current model of just half. -
01-13-2013, 03:23 PMCynthis
I second the opinion that crafting/gathering should have more varied ways of leveling.
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01-14-2013, 08:00 AMAllesasi
Leves worked great for leveling DOL and DOH in 1.0 to a certain extent not to mention the materials rewards were awsome. I don't have any fighting classes to level but it would totally kill things in 2.0 if we cannot SB for materia anymore if party grinding is nerfed. I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna be the only one pissed off if it will take us forever to SB stuff because of these changes.
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01-14-2013, 08:28 AMHamHam
I hope is not quest, after quest, after quest, after quest, because that $h!t is boring. It's one of the reasons I don't like WoW.
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01-14-2013, 08:32 AMShinigamiKaylakilling the same mob over and over in an exp grind group is horribly boring... I'd rather at least be getting gear with my dungeon kills ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
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01-14-2013, 08:38 AMXatshI would rather have the option for bothQuote:
Originally Posted by ShinigamiKayla
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01-14-2013, 02:52 PMKoujiGekiIts boring for you yes , but not for everyone there should be anm option for ppl who dont wanna spam dungeons or quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinigamiKayla
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01-14-2013, 03:03 PMWarlockCould you at least try to explain what is so exciting about half afking killing tons of the same mob for hours? VS. doing quests that will give you gear,gil and a piece of lore and wont root you at one spot but it will make you travel around and explore...it is laughable the amount of people that didn't know all the lore behind 1.0 from the intro to end of an era. whining and bitching the extended "new beginning" video makes no sense...when actually the real problem was that they didn't get the necessary quests done..Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
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01-14-2013, 04:40 PMNakiamiieI disagree greatly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
If it takes more than an hour for a single level in an exp party, there is a problem.
Again, it's a game not a job for me. My fun isn't grinding forever to earn 1 level.
It also means that it would be damn near impossible to get your level without an exp party if it requires several hours with an exp party. Thus, an hour for a level with an exp party is long enough. -
01-14-2013, 04:57 PMKoujiGekiIts a preference, i happen to enjoy killing mobs in parties. Especially if its a funny party. Its what i expect from FF games. My personal playstyle was to stay back and grind lvl. Like in FF4 Im usually 15-20 lvls above the part of the story that im usually suppose to be. Grinds dont bother me. I have no problem with quest based lvling as long as its fun the whole time, except if it Escorting or just running around the world a thousand times. Like think if quest in 11 made you run from Bastok al the way to lets say Ro Moave, then all the way back Bastok for a 3 second cutscene or not even a cutscene it gives a friggin item and then have to run all the way back to ro moave no warping just running. That is stupid and boring to do running al that running for cutscene of just talking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock
Im just frustrated that SE isnt even trying to find happy mediums. -
01-14-2013, 05:23 PMCynthisI really hope they do since I agree with you that parties are sometimes a lot of fun. Some of my fondest memories from 1.0 are from killing cactuars near Horizon to level and inviting people that came by. I got to know a lot of my in game friends that way and in one case the party we formed there continued over a week all the way to getting to 50 in Natalan as we all got to know each other along the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
Having said that I also pride myself on doing all the quests so for me it is really important that there is a combination of both. -
01-14-2013, 08:03 PMThemis
I used to love grouping up in XI for a party, even if it was sitting in the same camp for a couple of hours. Even the waiting for an invite was worth it, assuming you got into a group that worked well (like a well-oiled machine as it was described earlier). When the party had a great group dynamic that ensured constant killing without too many issues (any hiccups ended up being quite exciting sometimes), it was a fun few hours. The only issue I had, outside of the high probability that you ended up in a terrible party, was that the exp requirements got stupidly high, that even in a strong party it still took a couple of hours per level. With only mob grinding as the way to level up, this got dull and I only ever spent 2-3 hours at the most. I maybe got a level.
With ARR, from what I've seen, I'm expecting that, sure, leveling up is still leveling up and it's going to be a grind. But I anticipate that, and I can deal with that. With the variety of potential exp gaining events and choices, you aren't going to get bored as easily. Get bored of doing some solo quests, get a small group of friends/randoms and do some leves. Bored of those? Do some dungeon runs for a while. You could easily set aside 3 hours on a Saturday/Sunday (assuming you have that time free) and do 1 hour in dungeons, 1 hour on leves/quests, and then finish off with something else like exploring and looking for FATEs.
The only thing I ask is that you don't need to spend hours to get single levels. The exp rewards should be proportional to how much you need and the content you are doing to get said exp. For quests, this should be based on the difficulty of the quest. Gathering some items in a town should give far less than having to go to a remote dungeon to kill a high level NM/boss. -
01-15-2013, 01:11 AMMillerna
"Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games."
So, doing quest after quest for several hours is just as much 'grinding' than killing a lot of mobs in a group. The difference is that in a (good) group you actual get to be social and meet other people :) -
01-15-2013, 07:22 AMTitans
There's quite a few people who will play. Not everyone will like or dislike the same things. But before you pass judgement should you at least hold off on your critiques until you at least had a chance to see what the system will be like. It's premature to judge something you haven't seen in action.
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01-15-2013, 10:54 AMWarlockAre you sure about that? because the best parties i had back in FFXI before Abyssea ....like example a very good secret room Crawler's Nest party were some of the most quiet times in my gaming...you only did what you had to do non-stop ..no time for talking...even worse if you were the pullerQuote:
Originally Posted by Millerna
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01-15-2013, 12:29 PMChardrizardYou can also get in a (good) group to be social and meet other people with quests, quests doesn't mean all will be solo quests, there are plenty of group quests and dungeons are mostly tied with quests as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Millerna
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01-15-2013, 07:13 PMMillernaTrue, and I do love group quests and dungeons. The thing is, 'quest based level progression' usually means do quests solo until max level with the occasional group quest/dungeon tossed in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
The main point though, is that doing only quests for leveling is just as much a grind as killing mobs in a group, especially since most quests ask you to grind mobs ;)
Personally, I like as many options to level as possible so I can do something different every time I log in. Some days I don't have much time and feel like doing some solo quests, other days I have more time and feel like doing a dungeon or 2, and yet other days I need to blow off steam and just want to butcher gobbies all day long ;) -
01-15-2013, 07:15 PMMillernaObviously it depends on the group. If you've got an optimal group that can kill without downtime, you're not likely to be talking much :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock