Pretty much thiS^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
If they actually manage to make it worse the third time around I'd be surprised
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12-01-2012, 07:35 AMsyntaxlies
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12-01-2012, 09:06 AMZezlarI recall waiting last time and hearing "Let's wait till Beta" "Lets wait till Open Beta" "Lets wait until official release"Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
Look what happened. There's nothing wrong with being concerned. I wrote in the OP that the system could be temporary, but that the GCT is a bad idea. I'm not going to sit on the sidelines, even if I can't get into the Alpha. So i'll post my thoughts on what I can see. :) -
12-01-2012, 09:18 AMSeirra_LanzceYes that was in 1.0, but for this im confidence to say, if you "WANT" to critic or show concern, wait for "MORE" information...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezlar
We hell not know everything about 2.0's battle, have you seen Monks yet? Have you seen Warriors? have you seen Paladin? We can't know yet, until beta.
By beta then only then *after few days trying and etc* I will join your merry crusade of debating this pointless thread. -
12-01-2012, 09:22 AMZezlarYou may feel the thread is pointless, but I don't care. It was intended to start a discussion based on what we've seen. I never asked for anyone to agree with me. When we see more footage i'll of course come back and reassess the issue. When beta comes along i'll do the same thing. It's not a post it now, stop it now issue. I'm not going to sit and "hope." You have to speak up if you have a problem, and I have a problem with what I see currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce
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12-01-2012, 09:35 AMSeirra_LanzceWell, Okay..First foremost, Sorry if you feel offended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezlar
I too was concern with the animation that was shown in the trailers last time, but now i dont mind it anymore and await for BETA because YoshiP has mention about it last week.
But for this is a bit of a wrong timing to talk about it, beside that there isn't enough Information about it either. Unless you can get full access to the games it self you may show concern. Right now is out right silly and only inviting more negativity than you possibly wanted.
The most reason and respond you will get from this is because there is only Alpha build to rely on the discussion, but really only with just 3 classes even thou it is indeed enough to measure it, i can assure you this whole GCT concern is nothing to be worried about at this moment.
When i say your timing is wrong, because well, because that is Alpha now. People get agitated when some complain about the game when is still in Alpha. Because you will most likely get respond that you are comparing on Alpha client, etc.
So my advice mostly to you is that stop now, come back later? :P
But then again, are your concern is the whole core system of the battle? because i read it that way and asking you this in case i am wrong. -
12-01-2012, 09:38 AMZezlarMy main concern is non stop spamming of your best weapon skills/spells repeatedly. Auto attacks don't have as much emphasis as they did. I don't want fights to end in a flash. Damage algorithms will probably change between the Alpha to Beta i'm sure so i'm not really worried on that front. However I do believe they will keep the GCT into the next phase. It does feel like a core component. Also I was not offended. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce
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12-01-2012, 09:45 AMCharismatic
The system, the way it works now, is prone to have you just use your best skill repeatedly. There's pretty much no reason not to do this.
WS costing TP on combos makes this the case just as much as the removal of cooldowns on each specific WS.
What I think would be cool is if rather than placing a cooldown on the WS itself, there'd be a cooldown on the ability to use a WS in a combo without it costing TP so that you could use your favorite combos anytime but there'd still be advantages to using other combos. -
12-01-2012, 10:03 AMEnmaThey probably looked at WoW and decided that this is the way to win on the market. Yoshi-P explained how FFXI was born (with Everquest in mind), and what we are watching now is the same, but with a worse sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezlar
I'm happy for ALL the things ARR will take, but I admit to have some doubts on Battle Speed and the new Battle System. Personally I like the "old" one, it needed some tweaks but was not so bad.
I don't understand why is so difficult find a compromise between very long fight (FFXI) and very fast fight (FFXIV 1.0, and ARR from what we saw)... -
12-01-2012, 11:17 AMMaxthunderAnd regarding your combo system: XIV combo system is a joke even a moron can pull them off as they flash for you. Now if they take the magic burst and skill chains from Xi and use them in Xiv than it would add some depth to battles, unlike now you just hit a flashing skills/spells to continue your combo as long as the players in the correct position, and getting into the correct position isnt rocket science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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12-01-2012, 11:21 AMMaxthunderQuote:
Originally Posted by Enma
I think the issue is with yoshi and the dev's. It is possibly that the devs are taking the easy route instead of actually sitting down and working out something that is not too fast and not too slow. Even in 1.o with all the changes yoshi couldnt find a balance and it seem this issue will continue into 2.0. -
12-01-2012, 12:22 PMcarraway
Because individualized cooldowns no longer affect WS prioritization, there must be some kind of incentive to diversify your skill usage -- otherwise, the skill ceiling becomes dramatically lower if you are no longer tasked to make intelligent decisions at different points during combat.
I am hopeful that combo bonuses and limit breaks will be designed in such a way as to encourage constant decision-making; the part of combat that we've been exposed to is at the very beginning of the leveling and mechanic curve.
What is more worrisome to me is the hefty 3-second GCD and the slow rate of TP regen, but if haste/store TP can ameliorate those, then I'm okay with that. -
12-01-2012, 12:41 PMReikaIt wont be like the old stamina system unless they add the stamina bar back as a 2nd resource used for every action.Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
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12-01-2012, 01:46 PMNadienKirisameThe have stated that a haste stat will not be added into this game because it can cause issues... though not sure if they will ever add the spell in or not...Quote:
Originally Posted by carraway
As for how this system will work... sure you could fire off all your abilities and run out of TP and have to wait... and while you wait for it to come back your overall DPS will be hurting like crazy... you will need to find the best flow and rotation in combos and abilities to get the most out of your TP to push the best damage you can for the length of the fight...
This also goes for soloing... if you cannot kill the mob in one full burst of moves and there is a chance the mob will kill you before you can push out another burst to finish it then you have failed. Resource management will become the biggest thing with this... and if you cannot grasp that then you will not be able to perform your job...
The cat is bemused =-.-= -
12-01-2012, 02:17 PMcarraway
The fundamental system of TP as a regenerating resource doesn't bother me. The actual rate of regeneration is what is cause for concern, because, as I stated, with stock 3-second GCD and 50/tick TP regeneration, combat will feel very slow, whether you're blowing your TP wad or budgeting it over the course of however many minutes. And the tactile feel of combat is incredibly important in maintaining a dedicated userbase.
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12-01-2012, 03:16 PMejiboo
don't worry OP, i'm worried about the high level battles too. very, very worried...
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12-01-2012, 04:11 PMRexThe speed with which they're pumping this game out...I don't see it as an "issue" but more of a time crunch.....If people really see issues with this..they will surely patch and continue to fix. As XI goes on, since they upped the level cap, they still to this day continue to rebalance jobs, recast times, abilities..Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
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12-01-2012, 06:08 PMShurrikhanI look there, specifically, about every time I come on for exactly stuff like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezlar
To be honest, a 3-second GCD really sounds a bit long to me. Without the actual time-costly animations we had before, we'll basically be jogging in place or super-breathing while we wait for our next high-speed attack to be available. It's not a long delay, but it certainly doesn't feel fluid either.
The reason I bring this up is because it's about the only thing that seems close to set about the combat system thus far-- high-reaction, while still running about the same speed of attack as 1.x. (When tp-dumping/chaining, movement for combos aside, you're attacking roughly once per 3 seconds already, and as fast as per 2 seconds with certain attacks [Pounce, Demolish, Howling Fist is probably the fastest I regularly use, along with some Lancer strings].)
Even if there are no solid individual ability cooldowns, there are numerous alternatives that can be implemented to carry the same idea of sparse usage without a hard number being given to it. Gliding TP costs for example, would cause an ability to cost more tp when reused immediately. Gliding damage/effect modifiers -- takes a (likely stat-factored) amount of time to reach 100% damage/effect potential again. Conditions can be added, such as these costs being wavered or reduced when a status effect fails to afflict the target, the attack misses, crits, whatever makes sense for that particular attack, attack stratum/string/niche.
I can only hope that something of this sort will find its way into the combat system so we aren't merely spamming abilities conditionally. (Blunt bonus damage taken ailment -- Simian Thrash x 99...)
I prefer things to be less exact, less preset. Having the idea of combos carry through without the 'hit the next highlighted ability' (do not stray from order!) system sounds refreshing to say the least. This can help with that, if done right.
It's a bit annoying that they went through all the 'trouble' to remove the stamina bar only to re-implement it under TP, but hopefully they'll find what they're looking for soon.
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My vague hopes:
- Start off with a fair amount of TP, but rise with successful combat, and not just auto-attacks.
- Various categories also build up with combat
- While using the same system, its feel varies from resource-managing to opportunistically oppressive to chain-complementary, etc, depending naturally (rather than through ruleset changes) on class and/or role.
- Applies personal and group long-term and short-term strategy.
If anyone has any ideas of their own imagined system that gets those points ^, I would really, really love to hear it. : )