A challenge. Make Bard more Bard.

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Originally Posted by Polive

Right, TP not being an issue will obviously have it's own implications in ARR, not only for bard, but for all the classes. That being said, your qualms with the job arose predominantly from 1.0 gameplay, and so I used 1.0 gameplay as the basis for my analysis.

As for bow-harps and music notes, those are simply aesthetic changes. While they should definitely help accentuate the "bard-ness" visually, they will not affect the balances that I have mentioned previously, even with TP removed from the equation. For example, in the Aion bard video, if you replaced the weapon with a bow, and the unicorn with a giant arrow, you would see that the gameplay is almost identical to that of FFXIV. The majority of the displayed animations dealt with dealing damage, and only a small portion related to support. It really is just a matter of perception.

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Dealing damage and what not is not a problem I have. I don't know why you seem to be advocating this. The problem in my opinion is the visuals.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

I'm fully prepared to get flamed for this, and with all seriousness I'm disappointed with FFXIV's Bard.

Now when I look at Archer and Bard in 1.xx and from the end of an era trailer, there isn't much difference or individuality that can distinguish them apart from one another. FFXIV Bard is still just an Archer besides the fact they wear Artifacts, and has access to a few extra skills that are staples to the job.

I challenge everyone, the readers out there to let somebody who never played FFXIV before, and show them the end of an era trailer. I guarantee you that they'll never know that a Bard was in it. They'll be like "Oh that Miqo'te is an Archer."

Square Enix, when I think of Bard I think of music that can be used to attack enemies, and buff allies and not just shooting arrows like an Archer would. I want to use that Harp, that Flute, and that Horn musical instruments we carry around.

2.0 make it happen.


You're free to disagree with me from the following:
Look at this Bard. This is completely my opinion but, why other game companies is doing Bard right?

Discuss in the posting section below.

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I still think this games bard is wayyyyyy better than FFXI bards. The fact you can DD/Support is awesome.

I don't disagree if you want a larger separation between archer and bard. All the classes and jobs need a larger gap between them.

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

More like Barbie, My Little Pony and Happy Feet coliding and going supanova like This

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Hahahaha this was awesome!! Definitely the pick-me-up I needed tonight lol, thank you!

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Oh c'mon. You're missing the point of the presentation. What if it was a snurble instead? lol

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Camate will never agree to slavery

FFXI BRD was better. I really, really hate that BRD in this game is tied to archer. I want to play a Bard, not an Archer...

It would make for an interesting mechanic to see the FFXIV BRD gain Damaging songs as well.
To be honest I am a fan of FFXIs version of BRD, but I am biased because I love to play support roles.

ouch... *rubs eye* damned pink glitter...

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Originally Posted by Niqote

ouch... *rubs eye* damned pink glitter...

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Take care Nique, glitter is the herpes of the crafting world!

I like the fusion of bard with archer, but yes I agree, maybe adding a little more music to it :) whether it's singing or instruments.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

I'm fully prepared to get flamed for this, and with all seriousness I'm disappointed with FFXIV's Bard.

Now when I look at Archer and Bard in 1.xx and from the end of an era trailer, there isn't much difference or individuality that can distinguish them apart from one another. FFXIV Bard is still just an Archer besides the fact they wear Artifacts, and has access to a few extra skills that are staples to the job.

I challenge everyone, the readers out there to let somebody who never played FFXIV before, and show them the end of an era trailer. I guarantee you that they'll never know that a Bard was in it. They'll be like "Oh that Miqo'te is an Archer."

Square Enix, when I think of Bard I think of music that can be used to attack enemies, and buff allies and not just shooting arrows like an Archer would. I want to use that Harp, that Flute, and that Horn musical instruments we carry around.

2.0 make it happen.


You're free to disagree with me from the following:
Look at this Bard. This is completely my opinion but, why other game companies is doing Bard right?

Discuss in the posting section below.

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Personally ever since I was little I equated bards and archers to be the same thing. All the folk tales I was interested in as a kid bards were typically depicted as archers.

I like bard how it is for the most part but I feel it needs more support skills and maybe an instrument on the side. Voice alone is good enough though.

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Originally Posted by Nix

Take care Nique, glitter is the herpes of the crafting world!

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That is rubbish. You are just a Glitterphobic with Glitterphobia!

On topic though... I wonder if they will give BRD new songs in 2.0... maybe we will have to wait for a lvl increase? But then again, MNK is getting an overhaul, who is to say they will not give BRD one... hmm

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Originally Posted by Niqote

That is rubbish. You are just a Glitterphobic with Glitterphobia!

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Tragic accident in playschool totally put me off. Damn those sparklies!

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Originally Posted by Karazaki

I strongly agree, bard doesn't feel like a bard at all. Needs instruments, need songs (lots of them!), needs to actually play their instrument(s) or sing. At least the AF gear has a bard feel to it, even if I don't dig the tights.

Also, does anyone else think that bow is a mismatch for bard? I might be alone on this one.

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If anything it should be using a variety of musical instruments & a dagger combination.

I really hope Yoshi revamps the weapons system as some classes/ jobs should be able to use more than one weapon.

Tell you the truth they need to get rid of the 1.0 class system and evolve the FFXI weapon systems (multiple weapons classes/jobs can use. eg... Grade A-D weapon skill list of being proficient with it)

This is a FF game damnit and a mmo to boot. The weapon system should be more complicated than it is now. FF tactics weapon system is more complicated than this game an that shouldn't be.

I really hope they are revamping it or doing something to get rid of 1 weapon only for every class.. it really cheapens the experience and it feels like I'm play'n a free Korean mmo like 'Dragons nest'.

Give each class/job, 2-3 weapons they are known to use, with the ability to still equip the Job stone to become the said job.

Give each Job class the ability to equip a secondary weapon to use in combat along with their primary weapon.(throwing items do not count)

This will let us see Bards have the ability to use their instruments (primary) and have a side dagger (for those close encounters)

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Originally Posted by dbrewer225

.... i dont want ff11 bard where i just play sings and thats it. lol go afk while yall kill stuff. ill come back and buff once the songs goes away. come on people u gotta adjust with the times. SE just needs to add more song uses for bard. i like using my bow on bard. i get to shot and sing. whats wrong with that.

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Thats why someone suggested Bard gets more attack songs so you could stll be in the fight and not have to go afk. Just to come back to buff.

They should tone down Bard's damage some and give them more buff and debuff songs. I agree 100% that they need to make bard sing and play instruments like they did in FFXI. Please SE at the very least do that!

that aion bard is the cheesiest thing ive ever seen, the only good thing about it is the fact it actually does use instruments other than that it looks porn as fuck

i can't say i don't like the Aion 4.0 bard. but it seems like they went a little... over bard. *shades*

I... think I'd rather our bard over Aion's bard... A few more songs for us, maybe an actual instrument, that'd be nice.

Yikes though.

I used Aion Bard as a reference because it actually uses instruments to fight, and to buff. There is no need to compare what it looks like except for its concept.

I seem to recall a certain FF game in which using a bard to sing a song would render the character useless as it couldn't do anything other than sing to keep the song effect

TBH I'm ok with bard being an archer-like class... as long as it gets more songs and it becomes more useful. Maybe Bard will become less of an archer if in the future we get 2 jobs per class. Maybe then there will be a DPS-specific job for Archer, and Bard can become more bard-like.

I think an interesting compromise would be when switched to bard your various atk skills change names into various notes and using those notes would then combo into a song
IE A sharp(arrow atk) b flat(arrow attack) d minor(arrow atk) combo leads into Ballad of Magi...
That way a bard would retain it's DDing aspects and remain viable but also make song usage more interactive.
I dunno... I guess it's an idea though :3

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Originally Posted by Becken

The bard of ff11 would be nice to have again over ff14 bard...

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If XIV BRD went XI BRD you can have it!

Bring on ARC > RNG!!

This one time, at Bard camp....

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Originally Posted by Arkine

All you need is this.

http://medias.milongamusic.com/Photos/Zoom/102202Z.jpg

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We just need more songs... haste song, debuff song, ect. I do hope they add a lot more songs.

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Originally Posted by Becken

The bard of ff11 would be nice to have again over ff14 bard...

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wait a second there. I played both bard on 11 and 12 and 11's made me wanna suck on a rusty nail.

11's was SO boring. 12's could be more focused on musical skills and effects, yes, but 11's route is NOT the way to go.

you mean... like this?

O___O no...

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Originally Posted by Abriael

you mean... like this?

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Summoning dancing penguin group is a must take.

XD

http://youtu.be/qfxjjXCjkjs?t=51s

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I'm fully prepared to get flamed for this, and with all seriousness I'm disappointed with FFXIV's Bard.

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<insert generic flame here>

I like Bard the way it is. It just needs real animations for the songs (which it's supposed to be getting just like all other casting animations.

The whole story of bard is based around them being archers. They'd have to redo a ton of shit if they changed this. No thanks. BRD in XIV is far more fun to play than it was in XI.

I think SE put themselves in a corner when they made bard a job for archer. There's no going back on it now without a lot of rage from people who leveled archer to be bard. I would have preferred they waited to add bard to something more practical and keep archer's attack potency but Yoshida felt we needed a buffing class in 1.0 and archer was the only option.

I think the biggest problem is that the current bard killed two jobs with its introduction. It's not a full bard and its not a full ranger (for sake of argument I'm going to assume ranger would be the ranged job) and it doesn't fill the image of either very well. There are certain fights in 1.0 that bard could deal decent damage but nothing compared to a pure DD and a song rotation every 3 minutes hardly makes it a musician.

Ideally, I'd want them to make a new class that leads to bard and have ranger replace the current bard (make it more of a DD with blm sort of numbers) but the only way I see that realistically acceptable is if it happened at launch.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

I think the biggest problem is that the current bard killed two jobs with its introduction. It's not a full bard and its not a full ranger

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How is bard not a full bard?

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Originally Posted by Majidah

How is bard not a full bard?

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How does three songs make it a bard? They could have slapped the same spells on to gladiator and called it a bard, wouldn't have made it one in peoples' eyes.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

How does three songs make it a bard? They could have slapped the same spells on to gladiator and called it a bard, wouldn't have made it one in peoples' eyes.

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what? haha how is singing songs not a bard?
You could ask for more songs and animations, but saying bard is currently not bard like is plain silly.

Bard is mid-low DPS with the best buffs in the game atm. Its more than you can say about XI's bard.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

BRD in XIV is far more fun to play than it was in XI.

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That's the honest truth. In FFXI BRD was incredibly limited despite the fact that it was closer to being a true bard. All you could do was sing songs and wait for them to wear off. Run to the front - sing. Run to the back - sing. Maybe try to debuff a monster, but any important fight this usually failed to work. In FFXIV you feel as if you're participating in the fight as an active member as well as having a supportive role. You can get in the heat of things as well as keep other members going. I'd rather FFXIV's version than anything like XI.

I think the bard is fine how it is. I've always played bards as archers with song buffs. Seems pretty stupid to want to just sing a song and sit there for 2min while it wears off.

I think people who are saying XIV's bard isn't a true bard have only played bard on XI.

Look at RO's bard. It came from archer and it had arrows.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

what? haha how is singing songs not a bard?
You could ask for more songs and animations, but saying bard is currently not bard like is plain silly.

Bard is mid-low DPS with the best buffs in the game atm. Its more than you can say about XI's bard.

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Bard has always used, at the bare minimum, a harp as its weapon. It has mostly focused on buffing its party but even when it dealt debuffs/enfeebles it would use its harp to do so.

Again, calling something a bard doesn't make it one. They don't actually sing, nor use an instrument. They spend the majority of their time in combat shooting arrows and focusing on damage (which they aren't very good at). They have a few buffs that they use once every 3 minutes, that's it. All the other jobs branch off a class that relates to the job. The only thing archer has in common with bard is that they have a string on their tools of the trade.

Edit As for XI's bard, it could do a hell of a lot of healing if played/geared properly for it. (Pre-Abyssea) A lot of the time my groups main whm would just go bard because it could keep the group alive and open up a party slot.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I think people who are saying XIV's bard isn't a true bard have only played bard on XI.

Look at RO's bard. It came from archer and it had arrows.

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Indeed. Few seem to realize that a non-combatant that only sings songs is not the only rendition of the bard. There's also the classic bard, which has been repeatedly brought up.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I think people who are saying XIV's bard isn't a true bard have only played bard on XI.

Look at RO's bard. It came from archer and it had arrows.

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In my opinion, it's not the having arrows or not that prevent the current BRD from being a "true" bard. It's the lack of songs and bard related abilities that have this effect. As it is now, which is still a great job, it's more of an archer that is apparently in training to be an actual bard. Primarily, the job is not based on it's BRD abilities but on the Archer qualities. That is to say, they need to pump up the songs and things related to them. I'm not sweating animations and such, but those would be nice too.

That said, we're still very early on in this game. With the addition of more level caps and such, in ARR things could be completely different than they seem.

I actually really like the Idea of linking Bards to Archers the way Final Fantasy did.

My problem is that they don't play Music.. They don't even use the Harp tethered to their Bow..

What would happen if SE removed the bow from BRD and just gave them Harp as main-hand and Flute off-hand?

I mean, besides all the ARC skills being useless icons on the action bar?

I don't think there is any way to avoid the bow-harp at this point - although, they could release a whole series of bow-harps and make them mandatory for the BRD job.

Either way, I hope in ARR, BRDs will actually PLAY the instruments...