new melding system. more casual? no thanks!

I'm all for merging materias under a tier, because that crap got ridiculous. Half of a retainer was filled with materia. -.-;
I'm not sure how I feel about it being "easier" to meld, and neither should anyone else until we see the actual changes. Failing dozens of 40%+ melds was bullcrap, but those few awesome triple/quad melds usually made up for it in the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

I complained all the time!

---

Why? Like, I genuinely want to hear that. From this thread I've gathered that too many think it's too much of gambling thing and less of a skill thing (since apparently, everything has to be about skill). The solution is the just make it easier to accomplish? I fail to see how handing us stuff on a platter is good for us in the long run.

Even if they offset content in ARR to balance this out, it's still an unnecessary move to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neasa

I'm all for merging materias under a tier, because that crap got ridiculous. Half of a retainer was filled with materia. -.-;
I'm not sure how I feel about it being "easier" to meld, and neither should anyone else until we see the actual changes. Failing dozens of 40%+ melds was bullcrap, but those few awesome triple/quad melds usually made up for it in the end.

---

You might be confusing relief after major frustration, with actual satisfaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

Why? Like, I genuinely want to hear that. From this thread I've gathered that too many think it's too much of gambling thing and less of a skill thing (since apparently, everything has to be about skill). The solution is the just make it easier to accomplish? I fail to see how handing us stuff on a platter is good for us in the long run.

Even if they offset content in ARR to balance this out, it's still an unnecessary move to me.

---

Clicking a button never had any difficulty. Nothing soley reliant on a dice roll can be associated with difficulty :/ You get some warriors and white mages together, maybe a black mage, and you mindlessly blow up groups of monsters until your spiritbond guage fill, repeat for multiple sets, then you press convert. Thats never been hard.

They still need to change the rarity of some materia, eliminate the chance of getting grade II materia from high level equipment, and put in elements that make resistance materia useful.

I think I would rather go ape-**** and be able to have a bunch of different melded materia than work 600 hours to get a single decent melded gear. I remember Materia like it was in FF7 and I had hoped it would be like that.

I thought it would be cool if they made it so you could even get cross abilities like melding a fire materia on to something and get a limited ability to use Fire. I know it is a tall order but the current system could work it. Even if Fire Materia was cheap and you meld it then get say, 2-3 uses it would have been cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfie

You might be confusing relief after major frustration, with actual satisfaction.

---

^This......

Never been a fan of luck being more important than hard work, and that is precisely what 1.0 was. The amount of materia I had was getting a little absurd also, it's a little crazy for Strength materia to take up five inventory spaces simply because my luck fluctuated from STR16, all the way up to 20.

A triple meld should indeed be a very high risk, however, the fact that it was purely, 100% luck is absurd in a game where pretty much everything is reliant on how good your equipment is. At best you could synth up a +1, for a meager 5% improvement, but when you meld, whether you're wearing incredible crafting gear, or totally naked, the result is the same. This is where I have issues. HQing a level 54 craft is not an easy task, but I've never complained about it, because I could directly influence my odds. Get better gear to craft with, streamline my five skills a little more, use food and guild synthesis support. Melding has none of this. Aside from HQ, they strip the process entirely out of your hands, and you sit there helpless as the explosion animation plays because your +1 is still only an abysmal 22% chance.

So I'm all for the "casual" version. Every single one of my really good pieces of melded gear were only a stroke of fortuitous luck, and my deep pockets of gil. There's nothing really to feel proud of from such a thing, as I basically brute forced my way to what I wanted with absolutely no finesse or skill involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

Clicking a button never had any difficulty. Nothing soley reliant on a dice roll can be associated with difficulty :/ You get some warriors and white mages together, maybe a black mage, and you mindlessly blow up groups of monsters until your spiritbond guage fill, repeat for multiple sets, then you press convert. Thats never been hard.

They still need to change the rarity of some materia, eliminate the chance of getting grade II materia from high level equipment, and put in elements that make resistance materia useful.

---

As far as converting goes, I'd agree. It's just pressing a button after SB'ing to get a materia determined by RNG. So if it that you're talking about I'd guess we're on the same side.

My issue is with melding. It really shouldn't be easier to stick it in there multiple times than it is now...why should it be? So everyone can get great melded gear a whole lot easier? I just find no accomplishment in that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

As far as converting goes, I'd agree. It's just pressing a button after SB'ing to get a materia determined by RNG. So if it that you're talking about I'd guess we're on the same side.

My issue is with melding. It really shouldn't be easier to stick it in there multiple times than it is now...why should it be? So everyone can get great melded gear a whole lot easier? I just find no accomplishment in that.

---

Melding is still luck beyond the first materia, but the process stays the same. Select gear or materia, select materia melding, select gear or materia to meld to, press meld button. pass or fail dice roll.

Both SB and melding are RNG based. So you end up with RNG on top of RNG....

It honestly bothers me that some of the 'best in slot' pieces are materia'd gear. I don't care for materia'd gear too much, but if it's the best piece of gear I can get... I'd rather spend an obscene amount of money buying it from someone than go through the gamble myself.

I'm very bad at gambling. When I tried to make myself the double melded CNJ staff in order to start my relic quest, I gathered enough mats to make many staves. I ended up making eight. When I attempted to double meld them, I broke all eight. I could have bought a double melded staff for myself and a friend for the worth of those items. (In fact, my plan was to make extras for friends in the linkshell who didn't have the time to gather their own mats.) Then a friend used his mats to try to make me a staff because he's the one that blew up the first eight. He still refuses to tell me how many mats he went through before someone finally just bought me the staff at full retail.

What I would like to see is gear that requires more skill to get, and not just luck. I would like to see instances that are more punishing and difficult than our current raids, with a better drop rate on gear. Considering the new 24-person alliances, 'good drop gear' will be rarer simply because there will be so many people within one group getting it. I approve of this. Materia'd gear should be a good starting point, as something worth using when you first get into endgame, but I do not think it should ever be the 'best in slot'.

I would also like to see more gear crafted with rare items that drop from monsters. (Example: Dodore.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

My issue is with melding. It really shouldn't be easier to stick it in there multiple times than it is now...why should it be? So everyone can get great melded gear a whole lot easier? I just find no accomplishment in that.

---

Currently, It is the same level of accomplishment I would get playing yahzee... none. It is random.... random is inherantly not skill-based so I "achieve" nothing but wasted money and patience.

I also want to know if they plan on expanding the slots a materia type can be attatched to too. Sucks not being able to attatch STR materia to my Dodore doublet.

personally this is reason i wasn't going all out trying to meld at all ...they been simplefying everything and this was obvious one coming too. i don't mind the change only cause i think gear should mostly be gotten threw endgame events and not bots spirit bonding and selling them on wards to gil buyers and rich people. if it's gonna be easier and they still make this gear better then actual content gear i'd be pissed as hell cause that is just making a mmo you don't need to even do anything in but aol chat in. no thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryuko

What I would like to see is gear that requires more skill to get, and not just luck. I would like to see instances that are more punishing and difficult than our current raids, with a better drop rate on gear.

---

I agree. I'd rather have hard to do but easy to get, than easy to do but hard to get. "Reward with accomplishment over repetition with eventuality" <--- might make that my new sig

Personally I don't have a problem with things costing a huge amount of money or taking a very long time to obtain. I also don't feel I should be equal to a player who has a lot more time to play than I do. The only thing I'm looking for is more consistency and fairness. A random system is fine until you become an outlier statistic on the wrong side of the chart, and then your game is kind of ruined. I haven't experienced this in FFXIV myself, but I know from past experience that it really blows to be that absurdly unlucky person and it does completely ruin an experience.

So, should melding be made more casual friendly? Sure, I think so, but only in the sense that casuals can feel like they are capable of working towards it without having to win a lottery. It should still be, all things considered, just as hard to get a triple meld in 2.0 as it was before, I just don't think it should be up to chance. Just make it require progressively more expensive special catalysts, or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

Why? Like, I genuinely want to hear that. From this thread I've gathered that too many think it's too much of gambling thing and less of a skill thing (since apparently, everything has to be about skill). The solution is the just make it easier to accomplish? I fail to see how handing us stuff on a platter is good for us in the long run.

Even if they offset content in ARR to balance this out, it's still an unnecessary move to me.

---

In general most people don't like the RNG. People don't mind wasting their lives away as long as the randomness is taken out of the equation. If you could create a system (like totems or GC seals) that give you a definite positive feedback towards progression people seem to like that much more than the RNG.

People feel like if they spend all night without getting a drop or that specific meld they were hoping for that they had wasted their time. For people that have rl jobs, families, and responsibilities outside of the game their in-game time is precious to them. To have it wasted is incredibly frustrating.

It's even more frustrating when a friend of yours is successful on their first try. If your a person with limited game time and you spent all four hours you had in your week while your wife and kids were at your in laws for the weekend and before you had to get that paper done for your college night class it's going to miff you.

Now if you used that four hours and were able to say "I'll get this far this week with my four hours then next week I'll be this much closer to that goal." You'll be much more inclined to attempt the activity.

Some activities will always be out of your reach but you'd be okay with that. You pay just as much a month as all these other people who can play the game at their work or don't have jobs. You're not asking for more progress just more predictable progress. We know they have more time and that they'll get things first. The tease game begins to lose it's charm when your an adult with real life responsibilities.

Eventually most gamers just opt for more casual games. They still identify themselves as gamers. Just as a film buff will still identify themselves as a movie fan even though they might not be a professional critic, or a person who likes fiction will still identify themselves as a writer or reader when they write poetry or read fiction novels in their off time. They don't want to throw away the hobby they've grown to love since they were three were kids and quite frankly they shouldn't have to.

If I'm a reader I can still read Infinite Jest. Ya, it's a huge book that has pages upon pages of footnotes, but that doesn't deter me from reading it nor am I jealous that my freelance writer friend read it from cover to cover in a week or two.

If I'm an MMO player where the game focuses on group only content or RNG, that's a different story. Group content doesn't effect time as much as the RNG could potentially but as the MMO dies down, forming groups becomes more difficult. Forming competent groups based on the current activity adds another layer that the time sensitive gamer has to take into account. {Garuda} {Veteran Class} 1/8 {Please} {/tell} Rhomagus Asclepiot for an hour and a half after work isn't really my idea of a good time... at all. Nor do I think it's anyone else's. You're not even playing the game at that point, your just waiting for a different RNG, and that is who's in Ul'dah during my server's primetime.

It's the equivalent of looking at the book Infinite Jest, flipping through the pages, and reading a random page here and there.

Quite frankly that's ridiculous.

Now I'm not one of these people but I can totally relate to their perspective. There was a time where I had school, work, friends and a girlfriend (that didn't like video games). I noticed that friends and gaming (which I heavily identified with) was the first to go (which after awhile, most of my friends were people I'd met through gaming). Then real life friends, then the girlfriend, as stress began to take it's toll.

School eventually fell by the wayside and here I am picking up the pieces. The game never really got in the way, as it was the first to go but I don't think it ever needs to. Developers shouldn't create games that purposefully consume your life. Lessening the RNG and putting more predictable, measureable goals (such a different currencies/ point systems) can just as easily prolong content as the RNG, and open up the game for all types of players. Those with more and less time.

i hope its easier no point blowing up everything 99% of the time. its not even a skill you just meld and then you win or lose. i'm happy its getting easier, materia would come down in price after people meld there hearts out and actually earn something other then having to make more equip and materia constantly after the random thing kills your equip.

broken as hell system in 1.0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhomagus

...Those with more and less time.

---

And statistics show that casual is where it's at. You wanna see a popular MMO? try Facebook. It is pretty much an MMO and it is ALL casual.

Sounds like the framework for melded gear not being best in slot and drops having more significance. I'm sure quad and quint melds will still be awesome though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingolf

RNG =/= skill

Removing luck as a factor is important. It's the same reason nobody used the aptant system in XI.

---

Evolith in general blew the big one and the system had never been expanded on past level 75. I ever see an evolith, I turned it in towards an outpost guard and let them deal with it xD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riv

Sounds like the framework for melded gear not being best in slot and drops having more significance. I'm sure quad and quint melds will still be awesome though.

---

^ this, it's the best of both worlds. If people choose to spend the time to meld and land on some truly amazing gear, go for it. For the general population if single and doubles, or darklight is all that you need to cap a stat, no problem.

Same here, I was tired of failing double melds for my af weapon...
In the end, the current system throws new players into a hole while rewarding the players who just endlessly farmed stuff for gil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Irana

Same here, I was tired of failing double melds for my af weapon...
In the end, the current system throws new players into a hole while rewarding the players who just endlessly farmed stuff for gil

---

drains the longtime players too, i made and went through 15-20 avengers before i gave up on melding the relic, no way was i paying 20mill for something i can make, yet never made just wasted days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaltus

I'm tired of the gambling mechanics of melding to be honest. Bring on the change!

---

How is it not still gambling... You just have a higher chance of winning. Stop the bullshit about wanting skill and challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RudyFails

How is it not still gambling... You just have a higher chance of winning. Stop the bullshit about wanting skill and challenge.

---

thats what im saying, melds should be easy like dyeing armor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

How do you feel about the new melding system?
Apparently all tiers will have the same stats and it will be easier to make multi melds.
Also the stats bonuses that come from materia will be lowered and be made more casual.

I'm hating this. Materia customization is what could really put your character aside from others.

---

yep, being lucky makes you SO special.

Quote:

---

I don't think anyone ever complained about this. If its not broken, don't fix it, I'd say.

---

In fact they're fixing it because it was broken.

i actually think they should make melding 100% and give gear a number of slots that way you can have aleast some variations of armor. that random shit has to go.

lets face it, the way to getting our relics was completely haphazard, random, annoying and it involved a lot of luck

There's no doubt that materia adjustments are needed. The value either lost or gained (entirely based on luck) was just too immense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

i actually think they should make melding 100% and give gear a number of slots that way you can have aleast some variations of armor. that random shit has to go.

---

whole heartedly agree. Actually, I think they could have made materia building it's own crafting job. Kinda like Gemming in WoW. I was a little surprised they didnt. In this way, the setting is 100%. The effort is in getting the skill to do it.

Xenoblade's Gem system is still my favorite "Materia" system.

You basically purify crystals and temper them to make the Gem you want. And if you're lucky and get the percentage past 300%, you get a perfect Gem of the next tier. And you can just add and remove the Gems whenever you want. You don't have to get a catalyst or be a certain level to apply it.

Now I wanna play it, if I wasn't in the middle of One Piece Unlimited Cruise.

EDIT: But on the subject of Materia changes. Hell yeah. I've only sampled a bit of trying double melds (got some STR gloves, that's about it). And I've seen some horrible stuff. One player I know has failed 40+ attempts on double-melding a Sarnga. That's just nightmarish.

I see the reasoning behind this, based on something said in prior live broadcast, that devs are concerned that multiple melding of high stat materia is causing a balance issue and making characters too strong. This is something they were trying to avoid by making it harder to meld multiples of the same tier materia, but players were capable of doing it all the same.

To counter the issue they are going to adjust the materia to lower stats this way even though you can multimeld easier, you can't reach too high of stats via their vision. My biggest concern is the revamp of the stats/combat system since it was mentioned stats that jobs currently used might be changed slightly meaning certain people with incredible meld gear might find it isn't so grand after ARR comes out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

i actually think they should make melding 100% and give gear a number of slots that way you can have aleast some variations of armor. that random shit has to go.

---

I like this idea too. Crafted NQ gets X slots, HQ gets X+Y slots. Stat increases from materia would have to drop some tho, but still.... lets make it happen.

Right now Triple is the Casual / Hardcore Line. someone with full triples is someone you know spent a lot of time/money or got extremely lucky to get that gear. Granted you see a very few amounts of quads considering its a 6% chance and those triples usually put you at stat cap to begin with so no need for it. but in 2.0 the "Hardcore" will have all quads and maybe 5 melds to set themselves apart from the rest. Im assuming that for instance a double 4 meld will be a 20-25% chance instead of a 13-17% chance that it is now

Well along with the change didn't Yoshi state that they would be made EX upon materia addition. I believe it was stated doing the mailing items to players. So by that reasoning quad and penta melds would in theory be more rare since you wouldn't be able to throw gil at the auction house for one?

Because lets say you can request melding for 2-5. But the fact that you would have to request it still means players will be directly experiencing the failure rate even if their friends, passerbys willing to meld. So the system having more success at the lower realm (dual and triple) won't really "help" the player that are not aiming specifically for one since you won't be able to just buy one to save time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

Also the stats bonuses that come from materia will be lowered and be made more casual.

---

Why are lower stat boni more casual?

I'd not mind seeing them open up specific materia to more slots, with a risk/reward change in percentages, too. So, for example you could put strength on more than just gloves and weapons, but for each subsequent strength you put on a given piece the rate of success is significantly lower than if you put a different type of materia on it.

That would open the door for more creative combinations at higher success rates or more valuable pieces with just straight up stats on them.

But really we're barking at shadows until we actually see what the definitive changes are in the beta. At which point we can give feedback. This type of game balancing is not hard to change so let's just wait and see before we throw a tantrum at the casual-ness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

How do you feel about the new melding system?
Apparently all tiers will have the same stats and it will be easier to make multi melds.
Also the stats bonuses that come from materia will be lowered and be made more casual.

I'm hating this. Buying exorbitant amounts of gil for melding is what could really put your character aside from others.

I don't think anyone ever complained about this. If its not broken, don't fix it, I'd say.

---

Fixed it anyway. Just because you did not do this yourself does not mean others didn't pay out lots of money so they could feel like a precious snowflake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

thats what im saying, melds should be easy like dyeing armor.

---

Not like dyeing armor, but melding should be more like crafting HQ. To have various possibilities to increase the chance if you know what you do.

The melding system in 1.0 was completely stupid. I burned through 1100 materia trying to get my gamblers crown. That was retarded. I basically went from zero to 800 something melds in a span of 10 days trying to get that achievement(http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=297642). Not to mention going zero for 40 something on double melding heavens fist on felt bracers. Sad part was that on that, half the attempts were a tier 3/tier 4 melds not two tier 4's. That was back when heavens fist was very expensive. Gave up on melding for a while came back and tried to double meld mind materia on a celata. Gave up after my 27th attempt.

It was a stupid system where for the most part the best gear in the game came down to pure luck. It generally awarded a few people and frustrated most everyone else. I like the direction they are taking the materia system. Try being one of the unlucky ones when it comes to the materia system. Then come back here saying how great it was.