Want your White Ravens Before 1.0 Ends?

Purely for my personal curiosity, would it be against the ToS to sell this service for real-life money?

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

Purely for my personal curiosity, would it be against the ToS to sell this service for real-life money?

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yes it would lol but SE wont know if you don't talk in game ahahah lol

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

yes it would lol but SE wont know if you don't talk in game ahahah lol

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lol, you mean it's only against the law if you get caught:) I wish I had know that before attending law school. Since I am at work and can't look up the ToS, is it just because this is for an item or would it also be a breach to say sell (for real-life money) the service of helping someone clear the normal Raven fight so they can finish the storyline?

Oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

On Balmung JPs have been selling these for 15mil for weeks.

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15 mil and 49 mil is the difference in character between these rotten guys and those from balmung.
srsly instead of fooling around they could help fellow ls members ....

Oh and they are certainly amazing gamer, i just dont like the way they tread other ppl

49 mil is already way out of most people reach cost wise. I've been a very cheap player since release and I've never had more than I have now at 41 mil.

I definitely want some White Ravens.

Thanks for the vids. Should be able to pull it off in a couple days.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I definitely want some White Ravens.

Thanks for the vids. Should be able to pull it off in a couple days.

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ok then lets do it :P

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Originally Posted by GinTama

15 mil and 49 mil is the difference in character between these rotten guys and those from balmung.
srsly instead of fooling around they could help fellow ls members ....

Oh and they are certainly amazing gamer, i just dont like the way they tread other ppl

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Are you in our linkshell? Do you know how we treat our fellow members? All of our active players have White Ravens, including a few who have decided to leave the linkshell. All of our players with enough playtime have at least one relic, if not several.

49m is our full asking price. We'll entertain any practical offers.

Hey BG, lemme know what server you guys are going to @ 2.0 so I know where not to go.

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Originally Posted by LavellaNyteshade

Hey BG, lemme know what server you guys are going to @ 2.0 so I know where not to go.

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Sure thing~

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

Purely for my personal curiosity, would it be against the ToS to sell this service for real-life money?

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Since its selling a Quest Clear its like you are hiring someone for their services, and not actually purchasing something from them. Closest thing would be someone power leveling your character for you which is generally against ToS because it falls under account sharing in 99% of cases. I'd have to look more in depth at the ToS but it doesn't fall under selling in game items for real money.

So for the actual answer, someone would have to dig through FFXIV's EULA; which is never fun.

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Originally Posted by LavellaNyteshade

Hey BG, lemme know what server you guys are going to @ 2.0 so I know where not to go.

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and people accuse us of being selfish, wow. get a load of this guy.

A fool and their money...

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

lol, you mean it's only against the law if you get caught:) I wish I had know that before attending law school. Since I am at work and can't look up the ToS, is it just because this is for an item or would it also be a breach to say sell (for real-life money) the service of helping someone clear the normal Raven fight so they can finish the storyline?

Oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread.

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Anything to do with Money is against TOS of course you could pay ingame money for items in game without issue. But anything to do with real life money to buy ingame goods are against TOS. But like you said if you get caught then they could ban you.

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Originally Posted by pythes

seriously, 15m isn't worth the time/effort of getting 7 LS members together and carry someone though the fight

i thinks its a fair price for a once in a lifetime item that is amazingly good, and will NEVER be obtainable again

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The earring is average at best not 'amazingly good' and if anyone pays 40m+ for them, they better get a BJ from all 7 party members as well.

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Originally Posted by RaidenTaichou

The earring is average at best not 'amazingly good' and if anyone pays 40m+ for them, they better get a BJ from all 7 party members as well.

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whether or not someone considers it "amazing", it's best in slot for nearly every job in most situations. so if you consider that to be 'average at best', well, that's weird- but more power to you.

on the other hand, completely aside from it being a "status symbol" or at the very least a once in a lifetime memento of accomplishment in a game about to go under radical changes- quite a lot of people who care about their gear understand the value of this piece.

so if you personally don't think they're worth it, and if 200 other people don't think they're worth it- cool. that's your prerogative. but don't speak on behalf of everyone like some expert character witness giving objective testimony.

unless you have some numbers and charts and graphs explaining exactly what they're good for and how good they are and the exact gil amount they're worth in relation to their stat values, trying to make a qualitative statement about them using anything resembling denotative language is just silly and wrong.

it's your opinion, and that's cool. but don't get ahead of yourself.

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Originally Posted by fusional

whether or not someone considers it "amazing", it's best in slot for nearly every job in most situations. so if you consider that to be 'average at best', well, that's weird- but more power to you.

on the other hand, completely aside from it being a "status symbol" or at the very least a once in a lifetime memento of accomplishment in a game about to go under radical changes- quite a lot of people who care about their gear understand the value of this piece.

so if you personally don't think they're worth it, and if 200 other people don't think they're worth it- cool. that's your prerogative. but don't speak on behalf of everyone like some expert character witness giving objective testimony.

unless you have some numbers and charts and graphs explaining exactly what they're good for and how good they are and the exact gil amount they're worth in relation to their stat values, trying to make a qualitative statement about them using anything resembling denotative language is just silly and wrong.

it's your opinion, and that's cool. but don't get ahead of yourself.

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Ifrit Ex kills are being charged 15-20mil here on excalibur, (idk maybe the economy is different per server) but if ppl are paying twice as much for a earring (no mind blowing stats mind you) compared to a relic then idk...Im sure Im not the only one that thinks thats fucking insane. I mean if you think thats a 'fair price' then god bless ya, just know you are in the major minority and I applaud you for every moron that pays full price.

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Originally Posted by RaidenTaichou

Ifrit Ex kills are being charged 15-20mil here on excalibur, (idk maybe the economy is different per server) but if ppl are paying twice as much for a earring (no mind blowing stats mind you) compared to a relic then idk...Im sure Im not the only one that thinks thats fucking insane. I mean if you think thats a 'fair price' then god bless ya, just know you are in the major minority and I applaud you for every moron that pays full price.

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relic will be available in 2.0, and ifrit will be easier than ever with alleviation of latency issues. white ravens are available for one more week. the fact that people are paying 15-20mil for an item that will still be obtainable in 2.0 vs. twice that for an item that won't doesn't really support your argument that white ravens aren't worth it.

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Originally Posted by fusional

relic will be available in 2.0, and ifrit will be easier than ever with alleviation of latency issues. white ravens are available for one more week. the fact that people are paying 15-20mil for an item that will still be obtainable in 2.0 vs. twice that for an item that won't doesn't really support your argument that white ravens aren't worth it.

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I just wasnt aware people have such bad cases of Completionist/Achievment OCD, because those Earring Stats are not impressive at all. But like i said before, more power to you if people are paying ya 49mil for em.

People can buy just as useful, or BETTER earrings for far less gil.
It's purely about collection and e-peen (Which, if you're paying other people to get it for you, you lose anyway).

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Originally Posted by Neasa

People can buy just as useful, or BETTER earrings for far less gil.

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better? only in a couple situations. just as useful? list another earring with regen or refresh, much less one with regen/refresh +accuracy and magic accuracy.

if you care about tackling difficult content, i'll repeat myself: these earrings are pretty much best in slot for nearly all jobs *at once* in nearly all meaningful situations. all in one earring.

if you don't agree, that's fine. that's your opinion. but it's far from objective reality, and not many people doing the hardest content in the game will agree.

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Originally Posted by fusional

better? only in a couple situations. just as useful? list another earring with regen or refresh, much less one with regen/refresh +accuracy and magic accuracy.

if you care about tackling difficult content, i'll repeat myself: these earrings are pretty much best in slot for nearly all jobs *at once* in nearly all meaningful situations. all in one earring.

if you don't agree, that's fine. that's your opinion. but it's far from objective reality, and not many people doing the hardest content in the game will agree.

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I'm not sure how anyone could look at these earrings and NOT see that they're best in slot for pretty much every job.

That said, that fact also kind of speaks to the weakness of the earrings in this game. Most earrings are pretty useless, really, and the rare ones that are decent have prices in line with their rare decent-ness. I'd love to see a lot more ear options in ARR.

+1 refresh or regen is barely noticeable... Just as -3 on weapons is barely noticeable.
+3 accuracy? I'll take +2 with -20 emnity for a fraction of the price if I feel like pissing money away.
+3 m.acc? Not worth the asinine amount of gil, considering the other things a mage can equip.

E-peen, and nothing more. I couldn't really care less if you take advantage of stupid people, as they probably deserve it.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Anything to do with Money is against TOS of course you could pay ingame money for items in game without issue. But anything to do with real life money to buy ingame goods are against TOS. But like you said if you get caught then they could ban you.

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As I stated, you are not paying for an in-game item, you are paying people to clear a quest for you. Using BG as an example:: BG never own's the White Ravens, therefor they cannot sell it to you. You are paying BG to help you complete the quest, The Raven, Nevermore.

snipsnip - anyways cut out the rest of this post as its pointlesssss cuz of the edit below::

-Edit

Checked EULA

2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any ... in-game services, ...

So yes, it is against the ToS because its an in-game service they are providing (clearing the quest)

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Originally Posted by alexhatesmil

that fact also kind of speaks to the weakness of the earrings in this game. Most earrings are pretty useless, really, and the rare ones that are decent have prices in line with their rare decent-ness. I'd love to see a lot more ear options in ARR.

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definitely true. the earrings by themselves are far from impressive, but their stats in comparison to other earrings in addition to their combined functionality just puts them way over the top, as they don't really have much strong competition.

on one hand, that means the ear slot is just super weak in general. absolutely. on the other, i think it justifies that they'd be a reward from the best-designed fight in the game.

i'm sure we'll get some interesting new options in ARR, even if they're not across-the-board upgrades.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

+1 refresh or regen is barely noticeable... Just as -3 on weapons is barely noticeable.
+3 accuracy? I'll take +2 with -20 emnity for a fraction of the price if I feel like pissing money away.
+3 m.acc? Not worth the asinine amount of gil, considering the other things a mage can equip.

E-peen, and nothing more. I couldn't really care less if you take advantage of stupid people, as they probably deserve it.

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+1 refresh by itself isn't noticeable, but combined with other refresh items, stacked on top of ballad- that can be the difference in an extra spell or two. if that doesn't mean anything to you, fine. for people who want to do optimal dps, it's clutch.

+1 regen by itself isn't noticeable, but combined with other regen items, stacked on top of a capped regen spell... etc etc. same concept.

then there's Rivenroad (hard)- the fight you get these from. you need about 450 melee accuracy to get as close to 100% accuracy as possible without effectively wasting extra slots on whatever could boost your damage ceiling.

if i use militia earrings, i'm at 449. if i use white ravens, i'm at 450 exactly. by using ravens, i can use a ring slot for another str or pie ring, rather than wasting it on another acc ring and going quite a way over approximate accuracy cap for the fight. that's wasted dps. and i finish most runs above 80 dps and have clocked in at 85+ on several kills, and the -20 enmity is completely meaningless to me.

in fact, that -20 enmity is virtually useless in all situations except for ifrit extreme, where it allows me to jump or disembowel to keep up power surge immediately after he lands from dashes, and generally never pull hate. so sure, in that situation the -enmity, albeit small, is more helpful.

using sphairai as monk? chances are you're well under 400 accuracy. so how do you min-max back up to 400+ without sacrificing too much potential dps? white ravens are an attractive option, and the refresh actually is significant when you're trying to keep your fists up for as long as possible (ifrit x, rivenroad h)

warrior needs accuracy badly. you attack so slow that every miss just wrecks your dps. the regen on the earring is just a bonus, especially if you're tanking.

paladin needs accuracy badly as well. it also benefits from the regen, and even moreso the refresh. you may get more mileage out of stonewall earrings in shorter fights where you need that burst enmity, but the longer the fight goes the more attractive ravens start to look.

5 healing magic potency really isn't very impressive at all for whm, considering the bulk of your effective healing comes from enhancing magic potency. again, combined with other refresh items- while not necessary, it helps.

5 attack magic potency is fine for blm on fights where mobs have very low magic evasion, but any resists at all completely wreck your dps ceiling. ravens, again, are fantastic option for min-maxing your magic accuracy to allow you to stack as much potency and INT as you can in other precious slots- especially considering that, point for point, int is far more valuable than m.att potency if you're using thundara at all.

i could go on. but the bottom line is that what you see as nothing more than a status item, other players see as a more effective and flexible means to an end in helping to min-max their gear to the limit.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any ... in-game services, ...

So yes, it is against the ToS because its an in-game service they are providing (clearing the quest)

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Thank you. Stupid rule but clarifying post.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

+1 refresh or regen is barely noticeable... Just as -3 on weapons is barely noticeable.
+3 accuracy? I'll take +2 with -20 emnity for a fraction of the price if I feel like pissing money away.
+3 m.acc? Not worth the asinine amount of gil, considering the other things a mage can equip.

E-peen, and nothing more. I couldn't really care less if you take advantage of stupid people, as they probably deserve it.

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I disagree. It's the best earring the game has to offer at the moment.

More than likely though, it will be outclassed by another earring. It will be a while before that happens though, and if the other earrings are any indication, I wouldn't count on something better than White Ravens being easy to obtain. Probably be a year before we see that appear anyway.

When that does happen though, yes, the White Ravens will be converted into an epeen item.

I want them, but my LS has the same views as you do, and are currently too busy trying to conquer Ifrit Extreme for their first Relics.

They're definitely not something I'll lose sleep over if I don't get them. Goobbue is enough proof that I played 1.0.

And I sure as hell wouldn't spend 40+ mil, let alone 15m. I'd be lucky to have 6 mil on hand. I play casually. Grinding out all my jobs never sounded fun to me.

Just find 7 people who want to do it and crack it out if you dont want to spend the gil, its a fun fight (¬_¬).

Been helping out othershells to get their raven wins for the past few days with one group getting their win last night, (although I repped out by the time they got their win after the 2nd out of 4 powercuts of the night, being tank at the time made it an insta wipe when it happened ><).

Stats are nice and the earring looks nice as well (At least on my Mi'qote :3 )

Man even if I had the gil for this I wouldn't pay it. 49 million for a pair of earrings? They're not even worth it in my opinion. They're nice earrings but I think that gil could be spent more wisely elsewhere...

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Were they always 20? I was told they were 15 originally and increased to 20 later. At any rate, the fight is way too easy to be able to charge much more than that.

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Hehe. saying Raven (hard) is easy is so badass. i think its the new trend in Durandal too.

As a smart person once said "A well fed rich man will never understand a starving poor man"

What i mean is you Raikki have MIKU. some people dun even have a regular ls to do Moogle for two days straight.
Those people will not be able to have a commited group to do raven for a few days to get it down and beat it.

It was easy for a guy with resources and a good group of people to do it with, that dosen't mean it is a generally easy battle bud. it aint easy at all. just ask the majority in your server.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

It was easy for a guy with resources and a good group of people to do it with, that dosen't mean it is a generally easy battle bud. it aint easy at all. just ask the majority in your server.

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It's easy because the execution requirements are fairly low, and the strategy's already been thoroughly fleshed out by BG and others and disseminated all over here. Just because most PUGs have people who are incapable of following direction doesn't mean the fight is hard.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

It's easy because the execution requirements are fairly low, and the strategy's already been thoroughly fleshed out by BG and others and disseminated all over here. Just because most PUGs have people who are incapable of following direction doesn't mean the fight is hard.

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Thats my point exactly. the reason people fail at it so much is mostly cause they mostly doing it in PUGs.
Again not everyone has a good regular active ls. most are drifters here and there.

Everything becomes easy in a steady static. there really isnt a content that is truly hard. it's the "find a static and hold onto it" part that's hard.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

As I stated, you are not paying for an in-game item, you are paying people to clear a quest for you. Using BG as an example:: BG never own's the White Ravens, therefor they cannot sell it to you. You are paying BG to help you complete the quest, The Raven, Nevermore.

snipsnip - anyways cut out the rest of this post as its pointlesssss cuz of the edit below::

-Edit

Checked EULA

2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any ... in-game services, ...

So yes, it is against the ToS because its an in-game service they are providing (clearing the quest)

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ya even if it a quest it against the TOS you using real life money for ingame stuff so ya :)

"July 1st 2012: hey I'd really like a relic"
"Sure just farm seals with us for the next 2 months"
"Ok is it my turn for seals?"
"No, seals are so July 2012 were on AV/CC now"
Player pugs and provisions for seals
"Ok I got my seals can I get in the AV/CC group?"
"No your dps is too weak and we don't carry members through"
Player pugs av/cc speeds gets salt/mythril
"Hey guys I'm all set for ifrit X, I even pug'd Garuda so I'm all set and ready to go"
"No were gonna merc Deus and epeen all over the forums with our glorious 10min. kill"
"But there is only 2 weeks left can't u spare any time for ifrit X?"
"No maybe u should find another shell"

^This is the truth

Zen, if you'd like to further discuss the reasons for why you were removed from our linkshell, we'd certainly be willing to speak in private. Keep your salt off the forums.

OHHHH DRAMA4YOMAMA

Holla~

FYI: Doing Merc runs all day today on Masamune, 40m /tell Scarface Champion. (THANKS :D)

For anyone who might be curious about how things might be going for us, practically speaking, we've merced 3 runs so far. One was at full price, and two were below full price.

Don't pay for a stupid run, work for it. :T and 49mil? :Q_ __ where are the fail groups willing to learn~ kekekeke

at least im not gonna waste my gil on those i prefer a big house and fort in 2.0 than an earring with pityful stats, already have the gobbue, enough to let ppl know i was in 1.0

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Checked EULA

2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any ... in-game services, ...

So yes, it is against the ToS because its an in-game service they are providing (clearing the quest)

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Except they're not trading the service for "real-world money or value," they're trading the service for in-game money, which is no different than someone paying you gil to power-level their character; it's the difference between paying gil for someone to do it and paying someone with real money outside the game to do it .

The whole part I highlighted because they go together; it's "real-world money or value" not "real-world money" or "value." This is to cover using money, gold, any sort of real-world goods, etc. being used as a trade for in-game services.