Transparency is always a good thing. Contrary to apparent belief, hiding the selling prices *and* giving the cheapest item to the bidder really just makes undercutting even easier (since it FORCES you to buy from the undercutter, and yet they get the higher amount if you bid more)>Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanabira
Auction Houses vs. Market Wards
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10-13-2012, 12:02 AMAlhanelem
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10-13-2012, 12:10 AMMamba
My retainer is full of junk which I would have normally already sold in pretty much any game that has a decent system to sell stuff.
Now the reason they are gathering dust on my retainer is:
- I can't get my retainer in Uldah... I sometimes run around and find a stand (yay!)
- Trading items to my retainer is so slow that it makes me seriously sometimes log off because it is just tedious... (yes still)
- By the time I find a stand for my retainer and trade my items to it I am already so fed up that I can't even imagine going to the search bar and start writing ON A PIECE OF PAPER how much I should sell my junk for...
- And then the next day... I have to run around the frigging wards AGAIN trying to find a stand for my retainer and god forbid if I have something else to sell again...
Whoever says the market wards is a good idea really needs to have their standards checked.
You can have a repair request system separate from actual buying and selling things.. This is one of the BASIC things of any game and should be made as simple and smooth as possible.
I think most of the people just want to sell and buy stuff with 0 effort. Lets leave the dress up and playing house to the player housing, shall we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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10-13-2012, 12:13 AMShougunThats FFXI bidding system - which isnt a real AH (a real life AH you know what the price is currently at - and there is bidding, FFXI just used an invisible market system where you could overpay).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanabira
The general AH bidding system actually prevents underbidding as players will usually raise it at or just above the equilibrium. This is actually something that the AH is superior in over the MW. -
10-13-2012, 12:17 AMMamba
Also, what I liked about FFXI auction house was finding random items I didn't know were in the game.
For example, I was looking for a body piece for my whitemage level 10, I would sort all the body pieces in level order and start browsing through. I often came across items which were for a different job and for example for a lvl 60 warrior.
Now... I go to lower level wards, middle lever wards, higher level wards, armorfitter wards... lol
Why does everything have to be so time consuming... we get it, there was not that much to do in the game at start but pllllssss change this whole carcrash called market wards and bring us quick shopping experience. -
10-13-2012, 12:21 AMAlhanelemThere is nothing wrong with the market wards, other than efficiency issues that can be addressed. Many of the things you and others are complaining about WILL be addressed in 2.0. The server system improvements will take the horrendous slowness out of the menus, integration of the three cities will help a LOT and eliminate "area is full" issues (and that's if server improvements don't do that by themselves), and moving the market NPCs into the city will make buying stuff as simple as it can possibly be.Quote:
Whoever says the market wards is a good idea really needs to have their standards checked.
Globally attacking everyone who has taken a particular side is a fallacious argument. I love it when the best thing people can say is "anyone who likes this must be not right in the head / needs to have their standards checked / is stupid." -
10-13-2012, 12:30 AMMambaIt's only the best if you read only the last paragraph...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I haven't seen anyone provide any actual positive things about the market wards, why is it so great?
I am very open to new ideas and often I have my view changed if someone explains it to me in a positive light but so far it hasn't happened and all my personal experiences with the market wards are simply bad. -
10-13-2012, 12:37 AMNewtonI agree with this 100%. Ease of selling and buying would make the game experience so much better. Hoping SE comes thru in 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba
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10-13-2012, 12:48 AMShougunBuy it now is the default (and only) option, no last minute out bidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba
AH can have retainers and MW can have all the cool filters and one window shopping.
Only difference remains is how you purchase/sell (bidding, market, or like FFXI (not an AH) - invisible market). -
10-13-2012, 12:49 AMSeirra_Lanzce
i want a BUY OUT SYSTEM ONLY, not your silly AUCTION bidding AFKers.
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10-13-2012, 12:55 AMShougunI do find that annoying lol. I always thought it would be cool if was a small AH like in FFIX (in person, with NPC crier) - were the each auction lasted a few minutes (depending on item or such).Quote:
Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce
Could have it in a building but have the chat logs played outside of the building near the market, players can come in and set up one AH and it just cycles through. Occasional NPC items could go up.
But yeah.. having played WoW/D3 (normal AH) - if you are looking for any real item or if you found quite the deal there is probably someone or something (bot) sitting there till the last 3 seconds to outbid you. (But the above idea being run on short timers would mean fair game) -
10-13-2012, 12:57 AMMolly_MillionsAlhanelem gets it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I've been saying it for a long time; we almost have all the features of an AH in the wards now. All we really need is a more streamlined process. -
10-13-2012, 02:12 AMAlhanelemHow many games have you played with a market system? One? Believe it or not this was very common with early MMOs, and korean MMOs have it too. SE's original implementation simply left something to be seriously desired. They are still working to address issues with it, you should simply patiently wait for it to happen. in less than 2 weeks, we say goodbye to 1.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba
Not every auction house is the same either, even though people use it as a blanket term to mean "The system of most other games I've played." I have seen terrible auction houses just as i've seen terrible markets. Vindictus has an auction system that is implemented through web browser embedding. How's that for inefficiency?
I also really don't like any auction house where the bought item doesn't go straight into your inventory, and I don't like those that include actual auctions instead of everything being buyout. I don't want to wait hours to buy an item and get sniped at the last second. -
10-13-2012, 04:48 AMxXHalloweenTrixXx
Auction Houses > Fail Instanced Market Wards trying to become an auction house.
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10-13-2012, 04:56 AMShougun
Its hard to keep these straight because sometimes we refer to "other mmo's" and then sometimes we are specifically referring to what an AH is.
But anyways,
AH = a market system to buy items by bidding for them, highest bidder wins.
MW (Specifically referring to SE version) = a market system to buy items by finding the item and buying it like in a store.
Until SE adds bidding MW will never be an AH.
That being said I think every single person here agrees there are way too many steps involved and poor streamlining of the purchasing/selling process in the MW.
(Also my own issue - the retainer halls look stupid, hopefully they can organize the halls to look like an actual market). -
10-13-2012, 04:59 AMHanabira
bidding is stupid. if i see an item i want, i want it now, i dont want to wait until the end of the auction (and be missing my money because its tied up in a pending auction)
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10-13-2012, 05:07 AMShougunYeah the true AH system (real life) is meant to be done in a sittable period. Some lasting minute to hours but really not days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanabira
Id choose "other MMO's" AH system like WoW's over SE current work. BUT I think SE has a good opportunity if they just add all the filters and stream line the processing, as well as cleaning up the halls to make a more logical and immersive market.
Currently retainers look like civilians and soldiers ready to riot. -
10-13-2012, 05:15 AMHanabira
i prefer to think of the ward as a giant store where i can pick and chose what i want. the only issue when buying is only showing the 20 cheapest that bumps HQ and melded out of the picture. selling could use some major reform no doubt. like maybe make the market ward a storefront with a hologram plate. pick what item you want, pick what retainer you want. retainer hologram appears and their bazaar opens.. done and done.
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10-13-2012, 05:25 AMFelisfixed in ARR. You would have acess to each ward in each town in just 1 room (not 3 seperated rooms like currently)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba
fixed in ARR. New server structure and moreQuote:
- Trading items to my retainer is so slow that it makes me seriously sometimes log off because it is just tedious... (yes still)
Can be fixed in ARR. One of the infos SE should give us in the next live letterQuote:
- By the time I find a stand for my retainer and trade my items to it I am already so fed up that I can't even imagine going to the search bar and start writing ON A PIECE OF PAPER how much I should sell my junk for...
Fixed in ARR (see point 1). With linked wards there is no reason why everyone want his retainer in Uldah.Quote:
- And then the next day... I have to run around the frigging wards AGAIN trying to find a stand for my retainer and god forbid if I have something else to sell again...
So, what was your point again?
buying with 0 effort is already here and get better with ARR (search filter for materia and HQ). What still need to improve is the selling.Quote:
I think most of the people just want to sell and buy stuff with 0 effort. Lets leave the dress up and playing house to the player housing, shall we?
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10-13-2012, 06:55 AMZakarnRosewood
More people complaining about something they have already said they are working of for 2.0. they have already acknowledged the complaints about efficiency, they have talked about lag, and they are making changes.
http://gifsoup.com/view/395184/smashing-head-o.gif
Wait for beta, see how it handles.
/end thread -
10-13-2012, 07:01 AMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
But... but...
http://www.jokeoverflow.com/wp-conte...ng-the-dog.gif
(I know they talked about better filters and efficiency, but did they say anything about cleaning up the retainer mob?) -
10-13-2012, 07:30 AMAshel
I look forward to the changes in ARR, I think that the MW system will have some good improvements. :)
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10-13-2012, 07:36 AMShougunYour positive attitude in attempt to bring this thread up is not appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashel
. . .tehehe
lol
I have faith that Yoshi will deliver the market standard filters and browsing (buy/sell) page - and its obvious they are keeping the market aspect which is good (buy it now only). My only last worry (personally) is that the wards will still look messy. -
10-13-2012, 07:39 AMZakarnRosewoodCant remember where i heard it but they were going to change the "zoning" for the MW and you just open a door and walk in. not sure what this means but alongside the improvements of increasing the number of players from 300 to 1000 and monsters from 600 to 2000 the engine will be much more capable of loading the chr's than the current server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
this has been mentioned numerous times that they are rebuilding the client, coding, and servers from the ground up to address the lag and issues with slow rendering. the majority of people raising all these "fears" are basing them of 1.0 limitations (not refering to you Shogun). -
10-13-2012, 07:48 AMShougunI hope the door means its not instanced.. as thats what I think it means lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
And unless they can create some dynamic or large market area I honestly hope that most retainers are not visible unless you are looking for them. With too many retainers its like looking in the sky of WoW with everybody riding ponies and nyan cats.
But yeah like my post right above your head ^^, I think 1.0 MW sucks but with what SE can do and what SE has promised to do MW has great potential. -
10-13-2012, 07:58 AMZakarnRosewoodI'm pretty sure thats how i read it too. wish i could remember where i saw it. I prefer to quote my sources so it's not just me talking out my ass...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
I also remember them talking about fixing it so you can search for HQ items, Coloured items wont take up extra spaces (it'll just be straw hat with an icon in the corner depicting the colour instead of straw hat (red), straw hat (yellow) etc.) i also think that is a good idea. have a counter you can approach to search for items, when you find what you want it will show all retainers with that item.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
They seem dedicated enough to making the MW's work that i dont think they are willing to give up that easily. it is a new system and they will run into some snaggs as they refine its process. with how much they have refined 1.0 from launch to now, i have every confidence that they will be able to iron out all these little details people bring up. ex simplify the selling process, refine searches, reduce the forrest of retainers, and reduce the laggy nature of it all.
Cant wait till beta (if i get in) so i can see what they have done and how it feels. it may sound good on paper but in reality it does not function as expected. -
10-13-2012, 08:12 AMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
^_^ your ass is not talking.
"Not teleporting" and "Walking right in" really sounds like no zone - I mean thats my first impression. If i think super literally it doesn't say no zone though.. But w.e lol I like doors over teleporting hallways. -
10-14-2012, 02:59 AMYrusamaYeah, they said they're doing something about the lag. Why do people still complain that the lag will be bad in 2.0 when that was one of the first things mentioned for change in 2.0?Quote:
Originally Posted by serendipity
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10-14-2012, 10:49 AMserendipityYou're probably right, SE could make it possible to have thousands and thousands of character models stand around, and have it still run smoothly on PC and PS3. But whats the point in having them there at all. Very gaudy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrusama
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10-15-2012, 11:10 PMMolly_MillionsHave you missed the feature where you can see armor and weapons that the retainer is selling on that retainer? Have you also missed the feature where you can place your retainer in a stand to sell your goods?Quote:
Originally Posted by serendipity
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10-16-2012, 12:09 AMAlhanelem
Or the feature where you can seek to buy items or the feature where they can get stuff repaired.
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10-16-2012, 12:46 PMserendipityQuote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I think that SE could integrate all that into the Auction House. Seeking repairs and items. Also, they could add screen shots to go along with the items listed for sale. As for having a stand, it does add an immersion element which has arguable value but for the sake of efficiency, I still don't see the point in thousands of retainers just eats up time. -
10-16-2012, 12:52 PMAlhanelemExcept, they don't need to integrate that into the acution house, because they have a Market Ward that already has most of the features of an auction house- plus these other features that auction houses don't have.Quote:
I think that SE could integrate all that into the Auction House. Seeking repairs and items. Also, they could add screen shots to go along with the items listed for sale. As for having a stand, it does add an immersion element which has arguable value but for the sake of efficiency, I still don't see the point in thousands of retainers just eats up time.
Seriously. Stop begging for an auction house- we really already have one. It could be more intuitive than it is and it needs some improvements, but really- We don't need to rebuild the system- the current system, plus the fixes coming to it in the future, covers pretty much all the bases. The only thing an auction house has that the market wards are missing is an easy process for listing items for sale- and this is a problem that can be fixed.
I honestly feel there's really just some sort of stigma associated with the term "market wards." You could literally turn the market wards top to botom into XI's auction house and you'd still have people not understanding just how not different the two things are. People are just 'YAY AH DOWN WITH MW!" without real reasons for it.
Once the incoming fixes are applied and people use it for a bit, hopefully they'll realize that what they've been begging for all along they'll realize they really already have, plus more stuff. One of the best things about the market wards in my opinion is the oppertunity for secondary impulse sales. If someone goes to your retainer to make the purchase, they'll see the other stuff you're selling- they might even buy some of it (and i've had this happen on multiple occasions). No traditional AH I know of can do that.
1)The market wards will be *in* the city- you won't have to go a special zone to access them.
2)all the markets will be rolled into one- You won't have to talk to different NPCs or go to different places to browse all the goods up for sale.
3)We'll have a new streamlined server system that won't require ages to transfer and list your items. This area will still need some improvements but I'm sure we'll get them.
4) the capacity issues will be gone, and no more not being able to sell stuff because the market is full.
5)More sorting and searching options means buying is simple. We already have searching by name, something FFXI didn't have.
What is there left to complain about beyond the number of clicks required to sell an item?