Please change ARC close-range auto-attack from punching to striking with bow

Whenever I play archer, I actually enjoy getting in close when the enemy HP is almost gone and shouting ARCHER PUNCH on vent.

It's great when it's the killing blow.

how about piercing the enemy with the arrow in hand in close range instead.

Alright guys...simma down now with the bow nerdrage. I still think they could add a nice brass knuckle-like accessory that would accompany and be stylized after the bow your using. Sounds like a pipe dream. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

What?! You guys don't like punching monsters in the face when they are too close? That is preposterous! Currently, there aren't any plans to change this animation, but I'll be sure to keep them in the know of your feedback on the animation. In the meantime, keep on training. :cool:

*Queues "Eye of the Tiger"*

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If you guys plan to make punching do the same amount of damage as an arrow shot, go right ahead and leave it punching. But it wont make sense , because we can currently use light shot and weapon skills at point blank range, and I dont see that changing (besides there no longer being light shot). The only negative is archers cant do combos if they are too close (which is a balance flaw please fix) So you guys might as well make archer/bard auto attacks arrow shots too at point when at melee range.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Do you realize how ineffective a bow is at close range? If you're so close that you can punch something, when shooting, the arrow contacts the target before it has left the frame of the bow. An arrow is not at its maximum velocity until it has left the vertical axis on which the bowstring sits, unlike a gun where the projectile is at full speed well before it leaves the barrel.

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Like I said above - we can still use light shot and bow weapon skills at melee range, so this comment means nothing in this game.

You need Hawkeye's bow to hit mobs with it hahaha :D Legolas hit orcs with his bow? i don't remember..but i do remember him punching :D , personally i wanna see Yoshi-P's Musketeer with dual barrel guns

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Originally Posted by Breladine

No. You're thinking guns or riflemen, not bows and archers. I have never seen an archer smash their bow into someone.

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Apparently you haven't seen enough movies, then. Because no, I'm not thinking of what you think I'm thinking about, or else... I would have said that instead of what I said.

Anyway...

In response to folks who mentioned stabbing with arrows, good point. I forgot to mention that, and edited it into the bottom of the post. Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

What?! You guys don't like punching monsters in the face when they are too close? That is preposterous! Currently, there aren't any plans to change this animation, but I'll be sure to keep them in the know of your feedback on the animation. In the meantime, keep on training. :cool:

*Queues "Eye of the Tiger"*

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lol... Fair enough. Hardly the end of the world if this isn't changed, but it would look a lot cooler if archers did something other than bareknuckle boxing when enemies got close... Unless your toon transforms into Rocky Balboa at that point, as well. :)

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

Be cool if they added a fist-like weapon to the ARC/BRD offhand that was stylized based off bow. Kinda like brass knuckles.

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Sub-weapon or tool but I'd prefer a survival knife or the use of an unloaded arrow.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

What?! You guys don't like punching monsters in the face when they are too close? That is preposterous! Currently, there aren't any plans to change this animation, but I'll be sure to keep them in the know of your feedback on the animation. In the meantime, keep on training. :cool:

*Queues "Eye of the Tiger"*

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Rocky: "Aaay yo Adrian, lookit, imma Archier, I hav a bow and I'z still punching things..." :/

*Rambo walks in right*:"Aaay yo, that's nah how's itz dun... you use my knife... I cuts people wiff it when they getz tu close".


Snake: Hold your blade with your right while holding your gun with your left as a tripod, like this, see? I call it 'CQC'! ... what??"

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They really need to re do the animation before 2.0 comes out and let us smack the mob with a bow like Archers would have done in medieval times.

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[citation needed]

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Originally Posted by Rannie

actually I don't know what facts you're talking about. My cousin is a hunter and has a hunting bow. I've used bows and arrows irl and I never whacked anything with my bow nor has my cousin... Actually if you want to go with more factual then why does it take more than one arrow for us to kill something seeing as how most of the time (especially with animals) one shot is a killing blow to them because they're either aiming for the heart or brains ^_^ . also one shot can disable them and keep them from running to do another killing blow with a different weapon like a dagger or something to that extent.

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I take up the bow as well and perhaps you never hit something with your bow because you never had someone attacking you with a sword or axe. You wouldn't try to punch someone like that attacking you when you have a sturdy bow in your hands which makes for a much better bludgeon than your fist. Also they were extremely well made from flexible yet sturdy wood. Much like the wood used in many pole based weapons.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I take up the bow as well and perhaps you never hit something with your bow because you never had someone attacking you with a sword or axe. You wouldn't try to punch someone like that attacking you when you have a sturdy bow in your hands which makes for a much better bludgeon than your fist. Also they were extremely well made from flexible yet sturdy wood. Much like the wood used in many pole based weapons.

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Why the hell would you risk breaking your bow to hit someone with it???????

I wouldn't mind hitting with the bow, if, like real bows made for that sort of combat, the bow actually had bladed ends (they actually did exist with metal bowframes)
All I care about is the fact that they are removing ammunition (I like my consumable arrows thank you) and making your auto attack a ranged attack. Bard doesn't need auto attack, you choose to attack when you need to and buff your allies. Can you deal fantastic damage? absolutely, but now you have an auto attack frame in the way of all of this >.> I don't like it.
But I am willing to see what it is really like when the game comes out. I know I'm just nit picking and all, so I want to see what Archer/Bard will play like when it is all said and done. Maybe the auto attack wont be as bad as I fear?

kraken clubs all around. there. i said it.

Need to get rid of the punch and just have only Ranged-Auto Attack.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I take up the bow as well and perhaps you never hit something with your bow because you never had someone attacking you with a sword or axe. You wouldn't try to punch someone like that attacking you when you have a sturdy bow in your hands which makes for a much better bludgeon than your fist. Also they were extremely well made from flexible yet sturdy wood. Much like the wood used in many pole based weapons.

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the bow is a ranged weapon however and even if the wood is sturdy enough once the enemies were too close the bowmen were worthless they would either have to back up or switch weapons. NEVER in the course of history has someone whacked someone with a bow because it's not feasible and just plain stupid and doesn't do damage. Again there is no fact to using a bow to hit people or animals with it. Second of all if someone is attacking me with a sword or axe and this isn't going to be in modern times then the minute i bring up my bow, which would most likely be made of wood, that bow would break against them, That's because the axe and sword is 10 times stronger since it's made of Iron or whatever material it was back in the days. Even now a days, unless you have a hunter's bow which is made of plastic or metal materials, it still would be made of wood.

People keep movies as reference and saying, Oh hawkeye did this and other archers did that... here's the thing those people aren't real. If anything have archers/bards equip a dagger or something else and use that with close range combat. However here's the thing. If you're in a party as either why would you use close range to begin with. You should have a good enough tank that can keep hate away from you while you stand far enough back to do the damage needed. Also if you don't like the close range combat then find a way to keep the monster from you with the abilities you have or switch to a different job that handles close range combat better.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Also they were extremely well made from flexible yet sturdy wood. Much like the wood used in many pole based weapons.

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Ash is probably one of the most popular woods for making polearms. this is the worst wood to use for a bow. it's far too brittle

many of the woods used to make pole based weapons are stiff, brittle woods that are very dense. In general you do not want to use this kind of wood in making a bow. They don't have the tensile strength to withstand the bow making process or the constant flexing needed to use a bow.

bow woods are typically more porous woods. and much softer. Harder woods can be used in bows, but they are typically only used for the backing, or used in making a fiber-glass like material to help hold the bow together. and this was only done because a more suitable woods was not available. Yew is, and always was, expensive. when you're outfitting an army of 500+ archers and you have the choice between cheap, reduced range or expensive long range you typically gave your grunts cheapo bows. because 1) they did not need to be accurate (our arrows will blot out the sky!) 2) you didn't want them to be too far away (or they'll run away/desert you)

Some composite bows can be made elm, oak, ash, hazel and maple. However these bows suffer greatly from reduced range and power compared to an equivalent yew bow. and you wouldn't use these woods in a polearm anyway. some of these woods are suitable for shields, however.

If you want to talk about eastern bows, Bamboo is probably the material of choice. for very obvious reasons. but even bamboo bows need to be very thin due to the tinsel strength.

Mongol bows, probably the best bows in the world, were composite bows witha wooden core and used sinew and horn to help back the bow. the most common wood used was birch.

My personal favorite is the Japanese longbow. it's huge. and it just looks really cool. it can also have very impressive range and power. However it is also one of the most fragile bows. if you draw it incorrectly you can break it. however they are extremely accurate once you get used to them.

I can admit that you can make a bow from almost any type of wood. but you have to really know what you're doing. and there will be pros and cons to teh type of wood you are using. overall, be prepared to suffered reduced range and power from using less ideal woods.

you do not smack people with your bow. you have to be extremely skilled to parry with a bow and not damage it. as an archer you typically dont' want to be in melee range. If you had a bow that was suitable for melee. IE: strong enough to hit someone with and it not break. it would have been designed specifically for this. and would not have as great a range as a bow made for shooting arrows.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

What?! You guys don't like punching monsters in the face when they are too close? That is preposterous! Currently, there aren't any plans to change this animation, but I'll be sure to keep them in the know of your feedback on the animation. In the meantime, keep on training. :cool:

*Queues "Eye of the Tiger"*

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why not puncture the monster with an arrow like some archers do in films? like legolas when a monster is so close.

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...golas-math.jpg

this or hit with a dagger is the normal option for an archer when he have to melee but cause the armory system is an error and have problems like this archers cant equip a dagger in off hand. -__-

S-E get rid of armoury system and give the jobs hands the freedom to handle a wide variety of weapons. And the freedom to change jobs just put it in the menu to change job by a button.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Like I said above - we can still use light shot and bow weapon skills at melee range, so this comment means nothing in this game.

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There's no more Light Shot in ARR. All basic ranged attack is handled by AA, the same AA that punches in close range. It simply switches back and forth based on distance.

That being said, again, this discussion is relatively trivial and isn't worth delaying ARR even a second.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

There's no more Light Shot in ARR. All basic ranged attack is handled by AA, the same AA that punches in close range. It simply switches back and forth based on distance.

That being said, again, this discussion is relatively trivial and isn't worth delaying ARR even a second.

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Doesn't make sense for it to bother switching back and forth when it could just stay arrow shots. If bow weapon skills are doable at melee range, bow auto attacks should be the same.

ITT: People who think movies are historically accurate.

/em watches a movie where the actors use rapiers as slashing weapons.

in ffxi you can use your Kclub.... axe or dagger for melee.... so yeah...

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Originally Posted by Reika

Doesn't make sense for it to bother switching back and forth when it could just stay arrow shots. If bow weapon skills are doable at melee range, bow auto attacks should be the same.

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Makes perfect sense to me. I can't imagine an archer realistically nocking and shooting arrows at a target that's all over his/her face attacking it.

From a gameplay perspective it encourages the ranged attack class to maintain its range for effective damage output.

I see nothing wrong here.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

They really need to re do the animation before 2.0 comes out and let us smack the mob with a bow like Archers would have done in medieval times.

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You are out of your mind. No professional archer would ever have swung their bow at an Enemy. There bow is there life. They could just go pick up a new one, they had to make it. Archers would carry daggers in case enemies got within close ranges. If they could get to their dagger they would kick or punch. No one would ever swing their bow. If for no other reason because it would do nothing. You can't grip a bow like that.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

What?! You guys don't like punching monsters in the face when they are too close? That is preposterous! Currently, there aren't any plans to change this animation, but I'll be sure to keep them in the know of your feedback on the animation. In the meantime, keep on training. :cool:

*Queues "Eye of the Tiger"*

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tbh I would use my dagger or some other weapon. I'd never risk damaging my hands lol.

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Doesn't make sense for it to bother switching back and forth when it could just stay arrow shots. If bow weapon skills are doable at melee range, bow auto attacks should be the same.

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Arrows are not effective at melee range. WS probably only work for gameplay purposes, but they do penalize you for it by not allowing you to initiate a combo unless you start it from a minimum range.

I can only think of Legolas doing that in LoTR and it looked completely silly, arrows stabs and bow smacks, silly, silly. Bows are precision instruments, not clubs. derp.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Arrows are not effective at melee range. WS probably only work for gameplay purposes, but they do penalize you for it by not allowing you to initiate a combo unless you start it from a minimum range.

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And that is a balance issue. You ever try doing levequests solo as an archer? Its not cool having that penalty at all. Other classes positional WS combos aren't even an issue because it is very easy to move to another side of the monster and do the ws, they dont turn immediately.

Punching for damage that is less than an arrow auto attack is a balance issue, and not being able to combo with WS at close range is a balance issue. How would you feel if you were playing BLM and you had to be within 4 yalms of your target to do combo with thunder? Now you would be forced to move all the damn time in groups and you would be in the BLM forum asking 'why do we have to be within 4 yalms that doesnt make any sense!'

Also if they dont change it to arrow auto attacks and remove light shot, it will also be an archer nerf.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Also if they dont change it to arrow auto attacks and remove light shot, it will also be an archer nerf.

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... because we've played ARR, tried out the classes/jobs, we've now moved on to discussing balance.

Well I'd agree punching seems just silly to me what about a knife/dagger in off hand slot just add knife/dagger to the animation maybe tweak it a little that would be neat too.

I'd still say something like a bladed fist weapon would work. Maybe even a glove that has a small blade attached to the wrist or top of the hand that they strike with. Such examples already exist with the Officer's Gloves, there's a piece of metal attached to one of the gloves. Why can't this exist as a normal thing? It's a small off-hand weapon that can be used to stab the enemy with in close proximity. And actually a bash with your bow would be possible too, look at Skyrim for instance. One of the close ranged attacks while particularly weak, is thrusting motion forward using your bow arm. It's a bash attack more or less.

You don't have to swing the bow, as cool as that could be, but punching something with your fist like that just feels a little odd.

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Originally Posted by Breladine

No. You're thinking guns or riflemen, not bows and archers. I have never seen an archer smash their bow into someone.

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Guess you never saw the Avengers. Hawkeye does it a few times. Hell, stabbing the guy with an arrow as an improvised stiletto (also in the Avengers) would have been better than that punch. A well-made bow can take some abuse, they just can't be dry fired.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

What?! You guys don't like punching monsters in the face when they are too close? That is preposterous! Currently, there aren't any plans to change this animation, but I'll be sure to keep them in the know of your feedback on the animation. In the meantime, keep on training. :cool:

*Queues "Eye of the Tiger"*

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Im fine with punching the mob, but it needs to do more maybe a chance to stun the mob so we can get 8 malms away to pull off combo's.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Guess you never saw the Avengers. Hawkeye does it a few times. Hell, stabbing the guy with an arrow as an improvised stiletto (also in the Avengers) would have been better than that punch. A well-made bow can take some abuse, they just can't be dry fired.

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He's also using a steel reinforced carbon fiber bow. try smacking somebody with the any type of wooden bow and they'll break after a few swings...this is why archer way back when carried Spatha's, Daggers, or other variety of the small sword.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

Need to get rid of the punch and just have only Ranged-Auto Attack.

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That's besides the topic.

Your the guy who just wants to go AFK, eat his chips and watch movies on the side while getting hate and dying. (loool)
Everyone else is aware of the battle. I wouldn't be surprised if you get kicked from the party along with having to HP.

your sig is really cool

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

... because we've played ARR, tried out the classes/jobs, we've now moved on to discussing balance.

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I desire to prevent the current imbalance from leaking into ARR.

And...

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

There's no more Light Shot in ARR. All basic ranged attack is handled by AA, the same AA that punches in close range. It simply switches back and forth based on distance.

That being said, again, this discussion is relatively trivial and isn't worth delaying ARR even a second.

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You're really going to try that after saying this? Did you play ARR yet?

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

He's also using a steel reinforced carbon fiber bow. try smacking somebody with the any type of wooden bow and they'll break after a few swings...this is why archer way back when carried Spatha's, Daggers, or other variety of the small sword.

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Hey, quite a few of the of the bows are more metal clad/reinforced than wooden, (the calvary bows, Ifrit's bow, Garudas' spine, and of course the Storm Lt's bow in my sig.) so it's not completely improbable. Also, I noticed you had nothing to say about my other comment, about using an arrow as an improvised stabby melee weapon. Finally, as many have pointed out, it works in Skyrim.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Hey, quite a few of the of the bows are more metal clad/reinforced than wooden, (the calvary bows, Ifrit's bow, Garudas' spine, and of course the Storm Lt's bow in my sig.) so it's not completely improbable. Also, I noticed you had nothing to say about my other comment, about using an arrow as an improvised stabby melee weapon. Finally, as many have pointed out, it works in Skyrim.

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you could use an arrow as an improvised weapon, given the guy your trying to stab with a projectile weapon isn't wearing chain, plate or Hardened Leather...otherwise he'll just laugh at you while he's lopping of your arms and head.

Modern arrows are made out of stronger and lighter Machine Metal, arrow hafts of the past were often made out of a light wood that often more than not would break and splinter upon impact of hardened mass. there are exceptions to that rule, long distance archery used for siege warfare required the use of heaver hafts while this arrows were much sturdier and could be reused they had a drawback, heavy arrows were useless at close encounters as the bow could not provide enough torque to propel the heaver mass of the arrows. this lead to many tales of warriors who could shunt the blow of arrows but the truth is these arrows didn't pierce deep enough to do any damage. the invention of the crossbow negated all effects of heavy arrows except arching which was later rectified using bolts instead of hafts.

Sorry for that long winded Explanation...but the more you know.

in skyrim the character does not use the bow for hitting. the animation is clearly just using the fist that happens to be holding the bow, so in essence its still punching.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

That's besides the topic.

Your the guy who just wants to go AFK, eat his chips and watch movies on the side while getting hate and dying. (loool)
Everyone else is aware of the battle. I wouldn't be surprised if you get kicked from the party along with having to HP.

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What do you expect them to do for archer bow attacks if they remove light shot? Archers wouldn't even be able to use their bows for tp generating attacks. Their only choice is to not remove light shot if they dont want archers 'AFKing to auto attack', tho the movement lock would hopefully be nullified or nearly nullified if they keep it.