Atomos = Inflation...

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If some people think they are losing gil by the gil change they will start to mass buy items to get rid of their gil.

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Except that's going to backfire, because they aren't going to be losing any gil. 10k gil after the change will effectively have the same value that 100k had before.

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Originally Posted by Enma

/otmode on

You won't lose any gils... They just take your money and split by 10.

EX.
You have 356 000 000 --> You'll have 35 600 000
You have 54 000 000 --> You'll have 5 400 000
Otherwise people with less than 100 000 000 would be advantaged
/otmode off

Back to topic, I don't think that Atomos could ever have any influence on game economy. -.-

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Wrong:

Player#1 had 356 000 000 gil in 1.0 --> player #1 now has in 99 999 999 gil in 2.0

Player#2 had 56 000 000gil in 1.0 --> and will still continue to have 56 000 000 in 2.0 as they have not passed the cap.

...I retract this statement... just read Yoshi's post.... sorry for the confusion..... *backs away slowly and runs away*

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

Wrong:

Player#1 had 356 000 000 gil in 1.0 --> player #1 now has in 99 999 999 gil in 2.0

Player#2 had 56 000 000gil in 1.0 --> and will still continue to have 56 000 000 in 2.0 as they have not passed the cap.


No ones at a disadvantage cause gil cap is now 99 999 999 .... New game new rules ... be thankful Yoshi isn't wiping the slate clean with everyone's gil and giving us all old players 100k to start off with.

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You're wrong lulz.

Regarding this statement that people keep throwing around that "You won't really lose gil because it will have the same value as it did before"

That is only true with regard to items purchased from npc's.

I highly doubt that they're going to automatically reduce the price of all market ward items by the same 10%.

That means that an item on the wards selling for 2 million gil today, will still cost 2 million gil when ARR comes out. People that might have been able to scrape up 2 million gil, will see their wallet holding only 200k. With all sources of gil (outside of the market wards) supplying less than they did before, our hapless casual gamer that no one on these forums gives a flying flea about (but which I happen to be) will find it next to impossible to scrape up the 2 million gil to buy what they want.

So, yes, we will be losing money, it's just that the people who will notice it the most, the ones that have to fight and scrimp and save and hoard it carefully, are the ones that will suffer.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

Regarding this statement that people keep throwing around that "You won't really lose gil because it will have the same value as it did before"

That is only true with regard to items purchased from npc's.

I highly doubt that they're going to automatically reduce the price of all market ward items by the same 10%.

That means that an item on the wards selling for 2 million gil today, will still cost 2 million gil when ARR comes out. People that might have been able to scrape up 2 million gil, will see their wallet holding only 200k. With all sources of gil (outside of the market wards) supplying less than they did before, our hapless casual gamer that no one on these forums gives a flying flea about (but which I happen to be) will find it next to impossible to scrape up the 2 million gil to buy what they want.

So, yes, we will be losing money, it's just that the people who will notice it the most, the ones that have to fight and scrimp and save and hoard it carefully, are the ones that will suffer.

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This is making a huge assumption that anything for sale in the Bazaar will still be up for sale when you log into 2.0. I Would bet that all sales will be taken down as they also have to deal with dated items becoming untradable.

In fact we don't even know if the current wards system will even be there for 2.0.

The transition will be a lot cleaner than people think because of supply and demand. Nobody is going to buy anything at current prices when everyone has 1/10th less gil than they had in 1.0. People will be knocking a zero off their sale prices if they expect to sell anything.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

Sorry some pretty dreary math last night. I blame the bad hotel and zero minutes of sleep.

1000/15 = 66.66 batches

16 crystals per cycle [1 hour] = 4000 seals = 4 turn ins [just using this as a baseline, may be lower or higher]

66.66 batches x 10 drops x 4 turn ins x 125 [price] = 333300 gil per hour
333,300 gil per hour x 10 hours = 3.33 million gil per day
21 million gil a week.

It's too much money.

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I never know you can buy/trade dawndrops and sell it instantly, which patches do that?

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Atomos is screwing up the economy but mostly because there is no supply anymore.

Demand is still there but all the suppliers are doing Atomos.

Don't think this is related so much to turning in seals for gil.

This is just a simple lesson for everyone in Supply / Demand theory. Supply goes down, Demand stays constant, prices go..... UP!

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It's both.

Low supply leads to higher prices because everyone is too busy farming Atomos to SB, craft or gather.

Higher prices lead to more Atomos farming to generate gil to afford inflated items.

I don't think some of you understand the severity of this dawn drop racket. Anyone can do it. Any character, any level, any class. There is no waiting on market transaction since every gil springs from an NPC. Profiit comes as quickly as you can press the enter key.

Just look at your company hall between Atomos spawns. If you think the crowds there are carefully deliberating on how to spend their seals, you are mistaken.

i think its a setup for a mass exploit ban comming in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

It's both.

Low supply leads to higher prices because everyone is too busy farming Atomos to SB, craft or gather.

Higher prices lead to more Atomos farming to generate gil to afford inflated items.

I don't think some of you understand the severity of this dawn drop racket. Anyone can do it. Any character, any level, any class. There is no waiting on market transaction since every gil springs from an NPC. Profiit comes as quickly as you can press the enter key.

Just look at your company hall between Atomos spawns. If you think the crowds there are carefully deliberating on how to spend their seals, you are mistaken.

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false, its as fast as the server response....if you know what I mean...

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Originally Posted by Ladon

This is making a huge assumption that anything for sale in the Bazaar will still be up for sale when you log into 2.0. I Would bet that all sales will be taken down as they also have to deal with dated items becoming untradable.

In fact we don't even know if the current wards system will even be there for 2.0.

The transition will be a lot cleaner than people think because of supply and demand. Nobody is going to buy anything at current prices when everyone has 1/10th less gil than they had in 1.0. People will be knocking a zero off their sale prices if they expect to sell anything.

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come to think of it, unless there are hundreds of players with photographic memories, or for some ass reason decide to take a bunch of screenshots, this game is going offline for several months and I doubt very many or any people will remember all the prices as they were

Greetings!

I have some information to share from Yoshi-P in regards to changes taking place during today's hot fix.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Producer/Director Yoshida here.

Thank you all very much for all your feedback regarding Atomos.

The development team has been observing the data for how much gil is being dished out (including the gil being generated when exchanging grand company seals), and it is currently higher than what was expected.

Due to this, we once be making additional adjustments during a hot fix during maintenance tomorrow morning. The hot fix will focus on the following:

• Adjustments to the amount of gil received when selling grand company seal items to vendors ⇒ Adjustments to the amount of gil being distributed
• Adjustments to the frequency of Atomos spawns ⇒ Adjustments to the amount of Grand Company Seals that can be acquired each hour by reducing the spawn cycle
• Removal of the monsters summoned by Atomos in low-level area ⇒ Adjustments intended for lower level players

We will be adjusting the overall balance without touching the rewards from Atomos.
We apologize for any inconveniences, but appreciate your understanding.

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Camate comin' with the nerfdown!!!! Thanks man! Here have a carrot.

Yoshi-P to the rescue. Thanks for the info Carnate, I'm glad you guys are responding to the feedback, despite how whiny it may come across at times.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

I have some information to share from Yoshi-P in regards to changes taking place during today's hot fix.

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All we need now is Atomos to spawn at RMT camps! Good news btw though! :cool:

Though I haven't even been taking part in Atomos camping like 95% OF THE ADVENTURERS are! :rolleyes:

While it's about time they nerfed the gil gain from Atomos what are they going to do about the people who abused the crap out of it for the last week? Everything on Balmung has SKYROCKETED in price. Items that were 200k before this event are 4~5mil now. 25m items are 50m. Basically unless you /did/ exploit this, you are left in the dust which is wrong because those of us who DO NOT exploit are getting punished in the economy

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

While it's about time they nerfed the gil gain from Atomos what are they going to do about the people who abused the crap out of it for the last week? Everything on Balmung has SKYROCKETED in price. Items that were 200k before this event are 4~5mil now. 25m items are 50m. Basically unless you /did/ exploit this, you are left in the dust which is wrong because those of us who DO NOT exploit are getting punished in the economy

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As someone who was left in the dust by this, that's pretty much how things work in life :/

the damage has been done; you're a week late SE and everything is pretty messed up now. learn from these mistakes!

Too little, too late. :\

They should remove the gil earned also, otherwise the damage has already been done.

It's possible to do, and really should be done.

Cap the total amount of gil brought into 2.0 via account not character. make it... 10million gil. that's 100 million right now. Cap it there /per account/ so people can't have 10m on 8 characters and 16 retainers so that the economy isn't crapped on right off the bat.

Well, i got everything i wanted from GC and still have 50k seals, but i did not earned any gil with the exploit.
I'm glad that'll be over.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

Cap the total amount of gil brought into 2.0 via account not character. make it... 10million gil. that's 100 million right now. Cap it there /per account/ so people can't have 10m on 8 characters and 16 retainers so that the economy isn't crapped on right off the bat.

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I like the idea, it's just not fair to the people that legitimately made that much money. It's probably a lot to wrap one's head around, but someone dedicated to gathering and crafting could do it easily.

They can't simply do a rollback either because there are people that legitimately made money during this period.

It's a tough situation.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

They should remove the gil earned also, otherwise the damage has already been done.

It's possible to do, and really should be done.

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A lot of it went straight to the wards, hence the inflation. People bought the lowest cost items, so what's left is the stuff that people had up for months that didn't sell because they priced it too high.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I like the idea, it's just not fair to the people that legitimately made that much money. It's probably a lot to wrap one's head around, but someone dedicated to gathering and crafting could do it easily.

They can't simply do a rollback either because there are people that legitimately made money during this period.

It's a tough situation.

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Here we go then, made a topic
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...880#post836880

Might awell remove everyones gil by 91%-92% instead of 90% at 2.0. That would fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

We will be adjusting the overall balance without touching the rewards from Atomos.
We apologize for any inconveniences, but appreciate your understanding.

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so I'll now get Anima and heavy at a slower rate then before? j/k^^

I don't mind a them doing a rollback as long as it only effects people who used the dawn drop exploit, i made some gil over the last few days selling some crafted +1 items and some materia and it would be unfair if i lose my gil because SE couldn't fix this issue sooner.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

While it's about time they nerfed the gil gain from Atomos what are they going to do about the people who abused the crap out of it for the last week? Everything on Balmung has SKYROCKETED in price. Items that were 200k before this event are 4~5mil now. 25m items are 50m. Basically unless you /did/ exploit this, you are left in the dust which is wrong because those of us who DO NOT exploit are getting punished in the economy

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It'll come back down as people spend the gil they made.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

It'll come back down as people spend the gil they made.

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That money's just transferring hands though, not going into the void. Prices will maintain because the same amount of gil will remain in the economy. The only reason prices will plummet on items will be due to oversupply.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

While it's about time they nerfed the gil gain from Atomos what are they going to do about the people who abused the crap out of it for the last week? Everything on Balmung has SKYROCKETED in price. Items that were 200k before this event are 4~5mil now. 25m items are 50m. Basically unless you /did/ exploit this, you are left in the dust which is wrong because those of us who DO NOT exploit are getting punished in the economy

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Are those items actually selling for that much? Most items on Sargatanas - at least, the ones I commonly make/sell/buy - are pretty much as they were beforehand.

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Are those items actually selling for that much? Most items on Sargatanas - at least, the ones I commonly make/sell/buy - are pretty much as they were beforehand.

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I doubt that, but it certainly leaves room for anyone putting something up for sale at this point to price it WAY higher than it was before and have it actually sell because there is that much more gil in circulation.

People should stop talking about exploits.

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The development team has been observing the data for how much gil is being dished out (including the gil being generated when exchanging grand company seals), and it is currently higher than what was expected.

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You see, they knew it would generate Gil. They just did underestimate the players again.
Its good they change it now, but theres nothing they could punish ppl for, since they knew about the seals and gil flood.

And what about the seals? Im sure everyone of those who talk about the "exploiters" did gain a big amount of seals through this. If u ask me, if they take back the gil, they should take back the seals too.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

That money's just transferring hands though, not going into the void. Prices will maintain because the same amount of gil will remain in the economy. The only reason prices will plummet on items will be due to oversupply.

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Prices did skyrocket cause nobody farmed/crafted anymore cause of Atomos, after thix hotfix ppl will go back to usual duty and gonna sell stuff in the wards again. As soon there are enough ppl selling stuff prices will go down again...

Things inflate all the time after updates just how it works.

What is this talk of an exploit??? It wasnt an Exploit, it wasnt a BUG, it wasnt a glitch. SE KNEW you could npc things bought with seals. SE KNEW you use the crystals earned from atomos to make seals, that ppl could npc if they wanted. If you decided not to NPC extra seals then that was your choice. Dont pretend youre better, or more moral then anyone else. It took them a WEEK to fix this. If it was such a huuuge deal they woulda fixed it when they did the 1st emergency maintenance. Asking for them to run back and take away any gil ppl earned is ridiculous. They clearly knew it woudl generate gil, they most likely didnt think the players would be so dedicated to it. The Ui makes it an absolute chore to do it. They probably woulndt have cared, until these threads kept popping up.

And i dont know what servers everyone is on. But Prices on Masamune stayed the same. Things in the Ward that were there a week ago, are still the same prices.

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Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

What is this talk of an exploit??? It wasnt an Exploit, it wasnt a BUG, it wasnt a glitch. SE KNEW you could npc things bought with seals. SE KNEW you use the crystals earned from atomos to make seals, that ppl could npc if they wanted. If you decided not to NPC extra seals then that was your choice. Dont pretend youre better, or more moral then anyone else. It took them a WEEK to fix this. If it was such a huuuge deal they woulda fixed it when they did the 1st emergency maintenance. Asking for them to run back and take away any gil ppl earned is ridiculous. They clearly knew it woudl generate gil, they most likely didnt think the players would be so dedicated to it. The Ui makes it an absolute chore to do it. They probably woulndt have cared, until these threads kept popping up.

And i dont know what servers everyone is on. But Prices on Masamune stayed the same. Things in the Ward that were there a week ago, are still the same prices.

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A week is about as fast as SE gets.

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Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

What is this talk of an exploit??? It wasnt an Exploit, it wasnt a BUG, it wasnt a glitch. SE KNEW you could npc things bought with seals. SE KNEW you use the crystals earned from atomos to make seals, that ppl could npc if they wanted. If you decided not to NPC extra seals then that was your choice. Dont pretend youre better, or more moral then anyone else. It took them a WEEK to fix this. If it was such a huuuge deal they woulda fixed it when they did the 1st emergency maintenance. Asking for them to run back and take away any gil ppl earned is ridiculous. They clearly knew it woudl generate gil, they most likely didnt think the players would be so dedicated to it. The Ui makes it an absolute chore to do it. They probably woulndt have cared, until these threads kept popping up.

And i dont know what servers everyone is on. But Prices on Masamune stayed the same. Things in the Ward that were there a week ago, are still the same prices.

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Yep prices, on my server seem to be the same to me no crazy hikes or anything. Maybe its just people with no gil that cant afford what they want blaming the event for the high prices that were already there.

They did the first Emergency maint to change the 100% cluster in what 24hrs?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I doubt that, but it certainly leaves room for anyone putting something up for sale at this point to price it WAY higher than it was before and have it actually sell because there is that much more gil in circulation.

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That may be the case, but if you look at the prices of certain things it is always the way. For example, a Cobalt Celata which I sell regularly can range from anywhere between 60,000 gil to 140,000 gil depending on how many people are purchasing it. Likewise, you'll often see the same item with +32MND selling for anywhere between 800,000 gil to 3,200,000 gil! It's just a case of people testing out the waters and hoping that they'll get lucky with a high price. Supply and demand will dictate prices more than anything, and if nobody is buying at that price or if there are a lot of people competing with each other then the prices will eventually stabilise. I would say the major key to a stable economy in an MMO is a lot of people selling and a lot of people buying. Everything always balances out once that happens.

I've always seen things up for ridiculous prices, still, despite all that. I just never see them actually sell their goods, so until the stuff starts changing hands for those ridiculous prices then it's not an issue. And even then, if it's trading hands for that kind of money, surely other people would start getting a piece of the action... and then the competition would naturally drive the price down. Economy! Whee!

A lot of materials have sold on Ragnarok, what remains are the absurdly priced pieces that have been there for over half a year. The obvious complaints here are those from people personally feel their efforts are now devalued. Perhaps they are, but are not on any higher ground as you stated (great post).

I have been NPCing items for months. My method? I prefer to NPC items rather than live in the restriction of the market wards. What I do sell are melded or HQ items that I craft from mats that I gather. I fished up a bunch of fish, i crafted those crystals, i logged my lumber, i made the masks and I NPC'd them. Slow at first, super fast with hasty hand. I don't have to wait, and yes it takes a bit more time. However, I"ve leveled 3 jobs in that time and made a few million gil without stress or delay.

NPCing items for gil are a part of the way the game works. The problem, from my perspective, is not that of an exploit but the underestimation of players to sacrifice efficiency for guarantees. These points all covered by Ronin.

You want to know what DIDN'T help? The obsessive crying and moaning on this forums advertising the methods and procedures in a public forum. If you did that, you actually devalued your own time investment via some weird self-fulfilling prophecy. GMs may be worthless for most things, but an email, chat, or call would have been much more efficient in bringing to light the "problem" while not setting the damn thing on fire. These people shouted fire, and promptly handed out gasoline and matches.

Many of those "lazy" people you know who don't take a single step to earning gil, would have never had the intelligence or whereabouts to figure this out. Instead they jumped on a forum and found their recipe. Don't confused a lack of ambition for the absence of dedication in this players.

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Originally Posted by sylvestew

Yep prices, on my server seem to be the same to me no crazy hikes or anything. Maybe its just people with no gil that cant afford what they want blaming the event for the high prices that were already there.

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Things appeared to skyrocket on Gungnir, but what I suspect really happened is that everyone bought up the normal priced stuff and, since everyone was farming atomos instead of restocking the wards, all that was left was the overpriced items.

It doesn't really matter in any case. Prices will go back to normal in short order.