Class names, how I feel about my character and it's developement.

I feel like the current system provides to much freedom and as such they have had to water down everything to keep it all balanced other wise everyone would just pick and choose the best abilities from every class to create some sort of super class.

Also don't like the weapon=class thing. Your class should not be governed by the weapon you wield but by the job you are. So weapons for weapon skills and actual jobs for skills and abilities.

I found it hilarious the people who like the current system actually think it's unique and allows them to not have a pre-determined role. Why is it funny? Because the majority of them don't even have a class above 30 yet.

Here is a news flash for ya:

GLA - sucks at anything but tanking
MRD/LNC - Sucks at anything but melee DPS
PUG - Is a decent tank but because GLA is better they are hardly anything but a DPS
ARC - Sucks at anything but range DPS
THM - You'll be spending most of your time healing and doing enfeebles here and there
CON - You'll also be spending a lot of time healing aside for the nuke you toss in the regimens.


Also, everyone is using the same pre-TP move abilities, and just about everyone has cure and sac II on their bars. There is nothing "unique" about the current system. And no, MRD being able to AOE so well doesn't make them all that unique from the other classes. It just makes them annoying when they get links on your group.

Please bring back pre-determined roles and classic jobs/classes. Why you would stray from this important classic FF theme is beyond me. My PUG will be just like all the other PUG's no matter the system, but at least with pre-determined jobs I'm not so similar to the other melee DPS's.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

I found it hilarious the people who like the current system actually think it's unique and allows them to not have a pre-determined role. Why is it funny? Because the majority of them don't even have a class above 30 yet.

Here is a news flash for ya:

GLA - sucks at anything but tanking
MRD/LNC - Sucks at anything but melee DPS
PUG - Is a decent tank but because GLA is better they are hardly anything but a DPS
ARC - Sucks at anything but range DPS
THM - You'll be spending most of your time healing and doing enfeebles here and there
CON - You'll also be spending a lot of time healing aside for the nuke you toss in the regimens.


Also, everyone is using the same pre-TP move abilities, and just about everyone has cure and sac II on their bars. There is nothing "unique" about the current system. And no, MRD being able to AOE so well doesn't make them all that unique from the other classes. It just makes them annoying when they get links on your group.

Please bring back pre-determined roles and classic jobs/classes. Why you would stray from this important FF theme is beyond me. My PUG will be just like all the other PUG's no matter the system, but at least with pre-determined jobs I'm not so similar to the other melee DPS's.

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Actually it could be argued that Marauders are fantastic tanks, especially against groups. They've got tons of enmity increasing abilities as well as the Intimidation trait natively.

With Conjurer and Thaumaturge, it really depends on how many are in the group. If there's only one, yes they're going to be delegated to healing. If you've got 2+ they can likely split off to other roles such as nuking and enfeeblement.

The system allows you to customize the existing roles to a degree, adding a bit more grey area between "good" and "awful". There are still roles and rightfully so.

Exactly Kazimir, I just posted this in another thread about FFXI Job/Sub Job system and how there was nothing wrong with it and I think it ties in well here.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

There was nothing wrong with FFXI Job/Sub Job system it was great and it did allow a lot of flexibility, the only thing wrong with it were the PLAYERS. It was the players that expected you to /NIN for everything not the actual game.

The thing is people think FFXIV is great because you aren't "pigeon holed" into a role, but that is because the game is still young, FFXI was the same when it came out people used lots of different sub jobs. Once the game matures people will expect you to have certain abilities and if you don't you will be gimp, there is no avoiding that it will happen. Only thing is, that in FFXIV it will be 10x worse for you because instead of having to level that one job half way to have the sub job of choice you will have to level lots of classes to cap maybe just to get those select few abilities that everyone will expect you to have.

For example as soon as something like Utsusemi comes along it won't matter what class you are you will be expected to have it on your class, so will have to level whatever class has it to that level just to get it.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

How is Ranger not Archer? Seriously how is it not? Don't say "Because it's not called Ranger", that's just arguing its name. That's not the point. Ranger and Archer are almost synonymous. What skills does a Ranger in one game have that Archer in this game doesn't? Are they class-defining abilities?

You can certainly make a black mage, you just have to mix and match skills to make it. It's not called "Black Mage" by name but that's not the point.

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A ranger implies a wildsman, someone skilled with bow, blade, land, and beast. The bow is their favored weapon, but their strengths are more skilled towards wilderness survival. An archer is a person who's a snap shot with a bow, nothing else.

In regards to the thread in general, let me put this in bold. Your character is not defined by the class they have currently equipped. They are defined by what skills they equip. It doesn't matter if I currently have a Thm scepter equipped - if I fill my action bars with healing and buffs, I'm a white mage.

The problem we have at the moment is that we don't have all the class skills necessarily to create the classes we want. As they add new classes and skills, that should be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

A ranger implies a wildsman, someone skilled with bow, blade, land, and beast. The bow is their favored weapon, but their strengths are more skilled towards wilderness survival. An archer is a person who's a snap shot with a bow, nothing else.

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From what I've seen the Ranger in FFXI wasn't much different from Archer here in XIV. Also in games like FFTA Ranger was just an advanced class off of Archer that wasn't much different and certainly made no use of blade or beast.

You obviously never saw a Ranger with a Kracken Club in FFXI then ^^

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Actually it could be argued that Marauders are fantastic tanks, especially against groups. They've got tons of enmity increasing abilities as well as the Intimidation trait natively.

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Clearly you are talking about leve and SP groups because this is certainly not the case for the little bit of endgame content we have.

Perhaps MRD can tank in groups great, but really, who can't? I'm often tanking when leveling my ARC, and with Cure and Sac II on my bar I don't even need a healer. My AOE damage certainly doesn't allow me to lose hate on grouped enemies either.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

With Conjurer and Thaumaturge, it really depends on how many are in the group. If there's only one, yes they're going to be delegated to healing. If you've got 2+ they can likely split off to other roles such as nuking and enfeeblement.

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For CON and THM, yes it does matter how many you have in a group. We had 5 on Dodore once (yes I know, overkill) and 3 of them just nuked the whole time!

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Originally Posted by Arcell

The system allows you to customize the existing roles to a degree, adding a bit more grey area between "good" and "awful". There are still roles and rightfully so.

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Perhaps you can customize your classes to a degree depending on what other classes you've leveled, but to be honest it's rather negligible and your actual role won't change one bit.

Again, Shes right. Archer is being used as the Latin "Arcus+ -er" meaning User of the Arcus (Bow). Archer is simply a Bow User. Ranger was never limited to Bows, they could use guns, cross bows, and throwing weapons with just as much accuracy as a bow. They can also use axes, swords, daggers, staffs, clubs, and a few others. While an Archer can only and will only ever use a Bow.

Same for Dragoon/Lancer.
Dragoon = Lances, Polearms, Ancors, Harpoons, Wing Swords, Epees, Shields, etc.
Lancer (Lacea + -er Lance User) can only and will only ever use Lances which includes spears and Polearms in this case..


I explain the naming nomenclature in XIV in http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Jobs-dev1033

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

A ranger implies a wildsman, someone skilled with bow, blade, land, and beast. The bow is their favored weapon, but their strengths are more skilled towards wilderness survival. An archer is a person who's a snap shot with a bow, nothing else.

In regards to the thread in general, let me put this in bold. Your character is not defined by the class they have currently equipped. They are defined by what skills they equip. It doesn't matter if I currently have a Thm scepter equipped - if I fill my action bars with healing and buffs, I'm a white mage.

The problem we have at the moment is that we don't have all the class skills necessarily to create the classes we want. As they add new classes and skills, that should be fixed.

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Meet me friend affinity: http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Affinity

You can put all the abilities you want from other classes on your THM but you won't be doing anything but gimping yourself.

People are going to be okay with this type of thing while leveling but when the game matures and everyones into endgame, no one is going to pick a THM buffing with CON spells over a CON.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

Meet me friend affinity: http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Affinity

You can put all the abilities you want from other classes on your THM but you won't be doing anything but gimping yourself.

People are going to be okay with this type of thing while leveling but when the game matures and everyones into endgame, no one is going to pick a THM buffing with CON spells over a CON.

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Except that once you're at endgame, you'll eventually have enough guild marks to push yourself up to 100% affinity. In which case the Thm using Con spells will have spells just as effective, but with the added benefit of Thm's massive aoe cone range. :)

Even without the added affinity, certain classes combinations have a high affinity with one another. I see little difference in healing when doing the above, and only minor damage differences when I'm using lancer skills as a gladiator. The effect is far more pronounced when healing myself or others as a gladiator.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Except that once you're at endgame, you'll eventually have enough guild marks to push yourself up to 100% affinity. In which case the Thm using Con spells will have spells just as effective, but with the added benefit of Thm's massive aoe cone range. :)

Even without the added affinity, certain classes combinations have a high affinity with one another. I see little difference in healing when doing the above, and only minor damage differences when I'm using lancer skills with my gladiator. The effect is far more pronounced when healing myself or others as a gladiator.

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But then this creates the balancing problem of a super class with all the best skills from every class.

It doesn't matter because you can only buy one affinity trait per guild, so that scenario isn't possible.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

But then this creates the balancing problem of a super class with all the best skills from every class.

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Not when Mr. Action/Ability/Trait Cost comes into play.

You're not able to stack non-stop affinity traits are you?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

This game just doesn't feel like a final fantasy game...and it starts with the classes. The classes need to be changed back to FF names. I mean really...where, in FF history, has a mage been called a Thaumaturge or a Conjurer? Come on SE, bring FF classes back to the FF series!

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Thaumaturge is mentioned in final fantasy tactics in one of the descriptions of the ancient wonders in your journal^^; but yeah I agree with what you're saying.

Carpe's idea on job/class progression seems to be the best idea out there to help everybody.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Not when Mr. Action/Ability/Trait Cost comes into play.

You're not able to stack non-stop affinity traits are you?

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Well they better get some serious balancing and restrictions done then because I can cross class lots of abilities and traits no problem which makes my Archer seriously OP.

You know what I really, really miss? Dragoon. It's probably because I'm playing through IV and Dissidia 2. But I just miss ripping things' limbs off with a polearm. It just doesn't feel like I am with Lancer. I mean I miss the concept of the "Penta Thrust". The energy and the emotion, the pure furious rage that pours out of your very soul to fill your pike with the pain and suffering of millions to fuel the strength needed to make each poderous strike.

Ah... I'm sure it'll be here some day.

But on topic, I like the class based FF games, an example I have at present is I'm playing through FFXIII (which I like, which means you might burn me at the stake right now) and I really don't like playing as a tank so I try to keep my played character from being a sentinel. But in other games the "tank" is a particular character or a particular class.

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Originally Posted by Zaene

You know what I really, really miss? Dragoon. It's probably because I'm playing through IV and Dissidia 2. But I just miss ripping things' limbs off with a polearm. It just doesn't feel like I am with Lancer. I mean I miss the concept of the "Penta Thrust". The energy and the emotion, the pure furious rage that pours out of your very soul to fill your pike with the pain and suffering of millions to fuel the strength needed to make each poderous strike.

Ah... I'm sure it'll be here some day.

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LOL! awww poor Zaene. :P