Seems like alot of people want this game to become Free 2 Play. >.>

F2P is for cheapskates who wouldn't pay for a game no matter HOW amazingly awesome it was, and they need to GTFO.

Many people are on a bandwagon that free to play is the only viable mean to release an MMO today. The idea is popular because so many games that tried to copy World of Warcraft directly failed to meet their company's expectations. Subscription MMOs aren't dead, it's just that no one has offered a subscription MMO worth playing since World of Warcraft.

Once something offered is worth playing, then people will lose that notion again.

All i am gonna say is that graphics has nothing to do with how fun a game is, for example:

WoW has horrible graphics, yet it beats every single MMO by about let see 156464768467 to 1 XD!

FFXIV is a pretty game.... Yet it sucks in the fun and stuff to do department, i mean sure i can log in and look at my pretty avatar in uldah.... but thats about it <.<

LOL is not that "WOW LOOKS AMAZING" but is well balanced and they do pump out content at a regular basis, it is fun to play, and the learning curve is not "Spend 3 years and you might be good."

Graphics have nothing to do with how well a game does, gameplay does :) Content does :) a good balance between the two would be perfect, but when you sacrifice gameplay and content in order to have a stunning looking game.... it usually sucks(FFXIII for example.)

I would just like to throw my support for keeping a subscription based game.

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Originally Posted by Firon

P2P games wont ever die just like you have idiots saying the Iphone is gonna take over handheld gaming, as long as ppl want AAA games they gonna pay for it. When you have a game like WoW with 10+ mil subs ppl are still gonna push for that P2P model regardless.

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Because every gamer out there had a Vita on their wish list for the holidays...

Even WoW is loosening on the P2P model with letting people play to level 20.

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Originally Posted by Fyres

GW2 is f2p and getting good reviews. just means a company will find a way to make the money in another way~

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Something other players like to call 'pay to win'.

I don't get the whole F2P thing either. It's like, if you can't afford 10 bucks a month or whatever then you should be out looking for a job.

And if they weren't charging a monthly fee, they would just charge RL money for in game items lol.

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Originally Posted by Riv

I don't get the whole F2P thing either. It's like, if you can't afford 10 bucks a month or whatever then you should be out looking for a job.

And if they weren't charging a monthly fee, they would just charge RL money for in game items lol.

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Yep, I can get say 12 items that I want for $34 one day in a lot of F2P games and another cool and/or beneficial item for $5 the next day, whereas in a P2P game I can get the same 12 items and more for $9-$15 a month.

I think if any game has a chance at making it as a P2P model, it is FFXIV 2.0! :) I am quite fine with a subscription fee for this game, and hope it succeeds to show the game industry that it is still a viable business model for newer games. ^^

But, IMHO it is more complicated than just "free to play" vs. "subscription" models, you've got buy to play, freemium, and wildly different types of cash shops.

I think a game can be good with a variety of different business models, if done "right". Unfortunately it seems a lot of games get it "wrong" and scare people away from that type of game. But I don't see FFXIV 2.0 having anything but the standard buy the box 'n pay a monthly fee, anyway, I don't think we've heard anything about that!

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Now business model is linked to the quality of a community :confused:

Wait until ARR release, if the game become slightly popular, EN forums will just become even worse than they are now. WoW forum quality is horrible, yet the game is P2P last time I checked... If you want quality forums, you need a strict moderation. That's not happening here. While blatant violations are taken care of (insults etc.), trolling isn't. It would require lot of manpower.

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It is what I said, but not exactly what I wanted to say. Something more like, a sub-based game will naturally weed out certain people. I wanted to use these forums as an example of a community that can (kind of) get along, as a comparison to the community in game. I feel like, if this game were F2P, the in-game community would be worse for it.

I know all game forums are bad, I'm an Eve player after all. The forums there are hell. So I guess my use of the forums as an example was a bad idea.

Nono, it was a good idea, it's just certain people will fight against everything you say if it goes against their personal beliefs because anyone who's had any experience with more than 1 MMO in their life and been apart of it's community, especially of various ventures (F2P, B2W, P2P etc) will know you were spot on that F2P does tend to attract a certain type of crowd.

If you look at all the MMOs that released with a p2p business model that flopped you'll also see they all have 1 thing in common. They reskinned WoW, maybe made it a little flashier, and made it easier because casuals like easy things. But...easy gets boring quick and why play a dumbed down WoW clone, when the original is still up and running and doing what it does better than the copy-cats? I played SWTOR. Literally felt like WoW with a face-lift, lightsabers, and robots. THAT's why I left the game, not because of the subscription fee.

I think majority of the people who want free to play are either children too young to have jobs, or 18+ people who don't have a job.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Also, Isn't F2P games Generally have Crappy Graphics? ( Low Quality because its F2P?) Just something that's been bugging me lately and I'm not sure why people just want this kind of thing just because it has the word "Free" in it. >.>.

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No f2p isnt always crappy graphics, your thinking browser based not pc/ps3 based.
http://www.dust514.org/
http://www.dcuniverseonline.com/free/
then your have your crappy browsers ones with slightly upped graphics:
http://www.freerealms.com/

not hard to google these things if there bugging you.

But as for F2P you need a balance altho its free theres stuff you need to buy in order to progress in them, thats how they make there money to keep it f2p, If FFXIV went free to play i'd assume there best way would be release e.g." ultima weapons" & make it so you have to buy 1 or more ingredients, Also maybe the sale of seals or gil tokkens e.t.c.

im happy as it is personaly.

I don't want FFXIV to become free to play.

Breaking News!!!

FFXIV FTP is releasing new Holiday content for all you eorzeans!

come get your xmas outfits! only $4.99 for 30 days!! be styling as the snow falls down and make sure you get your /snowball glove for only .99 more!!

and for all the gift givers we got RELIC weapons now 40% off! come get yours today!

no thanks

I haven't played a F2P that wasn't very quickly PAY TO WIN. A few do the vanity only sales which I can get behind but they usually don't have much depth. Also I don't think pointing out F2P that were developed as P2P is fair as a judging basis.

The only F2P model I was ever interested in is the content buy type. So for example it would be like say XIV is f2p, you pay 5 bucks to unlock the Primal Storyline where you unlock those fights. You still have to earn it but you could just pass it by. Though I am sure you can see all the issues that would cause.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

No matter how you slice it F2P MMOs have the Worst Graphics ( even GW2 I saw HD Videos and they seem to have that Generic MMO look). WoW's Cartoony Scenery is better than F2P graphics, and I dislike WoW.

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqbwz...ueh7o1_500.gif

Amazing logic, good sir.

one word.














































china.

F2Ps are the equivalent of one night stands. Just because the cow gives me the milk for free doesn't mean I'll still love/respect it in the morning.

To get into a worthwhile relationship, I'd have to contribute more, but, frankly... I'm not interested.

Games like Planetside 2 are about to shake up how F2P MMO's are made. The engine that has been made for it is phenomenal and it's completely F2P. It blows engines like Frostbite out of the water.

Guild Wars 2 is only a stone's throw away from being F2P. It will be the future of MMO's, it doesn't mean the game won't lack polish. I mean compare GW2 to FFXIV. At it's release, i'd have assumed FFXIV was the F2P option.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Games like Planetside 2 are about to shake up how F2P MMO's are made. The engine that has been made for it is phenomenal and it's completely F2P. It blows engines like Frostbite out of the water.

Guild Wars 2 is only a stone's throw away from being F2P. It will be the future of MMO's, it doesn't mean the game won't lack polish. I mean compare GW2 to FFXIV. At it's release, i'd have assumed FFXIV was the F2P option.

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And to some degree GW2 is the better MMO experience, more hassle free, plays less like a job. Less PC demand = wider audience. Most of the comments i've seen on GW2 trailers is that it would kill "crappy" MMOs like XIV and another MMO i forget the name.

MMO games that are built from the start with free to play in mind are in my experience better than games that start as pay to play and then go free to play because of whatever reason. Like GW2 vs TOR. And people shouting they wont play this unless it's free to play are probably the same ones that would never pay to play any MMO game, or they're already playing another MMO and don't want to pay for another one.

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Originally Posted by Levian

If you look at all the MMOs that released with a p2p business model that flopped you'll also see they all have 1 thing in common. They reskinned WoW, maybe made it a little flashier, and made it easier because casuals like easy things. But...easy gets boring quick and why play a dumbed down WoW clone, when the original is still up and running and doing what it does better than the copy-cats? I played SWTOR. Literally felt like WoW with a face-lift, lightsabers, and robots. THAT's why I left the game, not because of the subscription fee.

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This is spot on. I think companies see Rift as the game that copied WoW and created a subscriber base, so they think they can do it to and find success at a larger degree. It just isn't true. WoW has so much combat polish, so much UI polish, and is balanced between both casual players and hardcore [although it skewed too far to casual in Cataclysm by making old content completely obsolete] that nothing can compete with it in its very own sub-genre.

Also, seriously guys, World of Warcraft released in 2004. It's made on a modified 2001 engine that has seen some significant, but not completely over the top graphical revamps. They put out beautiful and attractive environments.

Honestly with the variety of games that we have today on different technologies today it surprises me that some people still demand only the highest polygon count.

World of Warcraft:
2012
http://thekots.com/Platinumstorm/WoW...eternity02.png
http://thekots.com/Platinumstorm/WoW.../uldumport.png

2008
http://www.thekots.com/Platinumstorm...gardewoods.jpg

2004-2006
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18930059/Mi...stratholme.jpg

Xenoblade Chronicles [480p stretched on a 40-42" tv]
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18930059/Mi...hots/xeno2.png

Some people really bother to trash these because of polygon count? pfft.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I honestly Don't get why people can't Sacrifice 2 Value meals at Mcdonalds/Burger King/ KFC whatever. I mean come on.. every time Something new goes up on FFXIV People say "F2P"? or "F2P or no play" idn why but nothing in this world is free even F2P, and some people say F2P gives Regular Updates just as a P2P would, Is that true?

Also, Isn't F2P games Generally have Crappy Graphics? ( Low Quality because its F2P?) Just something that's been bugging me lately and I'm not sure why people just want this kind of thing just because it has the word "Free" in it. >.>.

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FFXIV will go F2P after people stop complain about simple things. Hahah like how bad jumping is. XD

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Originally Posted by Lirion

MMO games that are built from the start with free to play in mind are in my experience better than games that start as pay to play and then go free to play because of whatever reason. Like GW2 vs TOR. And people shouting they wont play this unless it's free to play are probably the same ones that would never pay to play any MMO game, or they're already playing another MMO and don't want to pay for another one.

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That's because the ones that were built around a subscription then jumped to a f2p format were failing miserably and went F2P to try and slow down the hemorrhaging. Only time will tell how well that tactic will work.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Games like Planetside 2 are about to shake up how F2P MMO's are made. The engine that has been made for it is phenomenal and it's completely F2P. It blows engines like Frostbite out of the water.

Guild Wars 2 is only a stone's throw away from being F2P. It will be the future of MMO's, it doesn't mean the game won't lack polish. I mean compare GW2 to FFXIV. At it's release, i'd have assumed FFXIV was the F2P option.

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Planetside 2 is definitely a high quality for F2P games and MMOs [Tribes Ascend is another great one]. The big challenge here is if it will sustain a community with its "metagame] that didn't work out well in Planetside 1.

I wouldn't put down Frostbite, but the two were made with different goals in mind.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

People say "F2P"? or "F2P or no play"

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Who? >_>


/10char

You have to get over what F2P actually is now. It's not just another shoddy Pay to Win grinder with terrible graphics. They are fast becoming triple A titles.

It is the future, whether you want to accept it or not doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I think companies see Rift as the game that copied WoW and created a subscriber base, so they think they can do it to and find success at a larger degree. It just isn't true. WoW has so much combat polish, so much UI polish, and is balanced between both casual players and hardcore [although it skewed too far to casual in Cataclysm by making old content completely obsolete] that nothing can compete with it in its very own sub-genre.

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This is worth expanding on. When FFXI, WoW and Everquest II were released there was room for error and forgiveness for lack of polish. I mean what was their competition? EQ 1 Ultima Online, and Dark Age of Camelot? So if I didn't like FFXI, WoW, or EQ II at launch it was wait for them to fix the game, or go back to Dark ages of screw it, let me just go slit my wrists and get it over with.

That isn't the case now. There are a lot more polished games available. If you're going to release an MMO now and expect it to succeed, it needs to be polished on the same level. I don't mean will be playable within 6 months after release, with content worth doing coming in a year or 2 down the road. You really need to deliver from day 1, because the MMO playerbase has become quite unforgiving.

You wanna pander to WoW's crowd you need to do everything better than Blizzard does. Everything to the most minute detail. And even then I think you'd be lucky to get a solid user base. We've played World of Warcraft, if we still wanted to play it, we would be. A lot of us are looking for something different.

Look at AAA titles in any other genre. Halo isn't popular because it reskinned Call of Duty and threw some aliens in the mix. It's a whole different game. Battlefield doesn't have a large playerbase because it copied CoD's playbook either. They already realize it would be suicide on multiple fronts. Same can be said for RPG's. Mass effect didn't reskin FFX. For the love of God, FFX-II didn't even reskin FFX. Totally different games with different mechanics. Why the MMO-RPG genre doesn't seem to get this I will never understand.

As to the future...if you can predict it well enough to say that monthly subscription based games are definitely out please feel free to look into your crystal ball and send me a PM with the Mega Millions lotto numbers for this Tuesday's drawing. When I'm a millionaire, I'll happily lend creedence to your inclinations as to what the future is. Until then, all I see is the subscription based MMO market learning the hard way that you can't re-skin an old game or release a bag of crap with promises to fix it later and expect people to pay for it.

It doesn't matter if it's F2P or not... all that matters is if you want to play the game or not. Money is never an object between people getting what they want (credit cards).

Objecting to the fact that it's P2P is just an excuse. They're just not interested in the game.

After having played free to play I'd rather not want FFXIV to go there.
I surely enjoyed the freedom to log on whenever I wanted without a suscription fee but on the same time I was driven by the addiction of at least ten items I wanted to get so badly (and that highly exceeded what I'd have paid with a normal suscription).
Those items were not necessarily play to win, they were costumes or pets or enhancing items so basically you could play the game without it. But honestly if you see people running around in something incredibely flashy and pretty and cool while you have a very generic gear all the time (and no pet and stuff) then you start to want that too, maybe...
The issue I dislike is the danger of the game only radiating around the cash shop and only around the cash shop and its items and not around content anymore.
I really don't like that.
Like this, the game doesn't give the feel of playing to discover a story but playing to buy and to use to items you bought and to buy even more. Personally all this advertising (e.g. at Aeria games) gives me the thought of something less serious (just my opinion) and drives my attention away from actually roleplaying my char in a catching storyline because this advertising is omnipresent.
The fun and rewarding moments are partly transferred from successfully finishing content to the feeling of having made a good purchase after some intense shopping to me.

Besides people might end up paying way way more than now. Even if they are just vanity items I've seen people spend hundreds of dollars just to get a special costume and this every month.
I really prefer the freedom of playing to get a reward beyond normal playing (and paying a basic fee) and not paying to get a reward beyond normal playing.

If there is a hybrid model that offers suscriptions with all options the game offers (and all items) and doesn't exceed the current (non legacy) limits while there is also a cash shop for those who don't want to buy suscriptions (maybe also to buy certain content besides items) then I'd be ok because I could decide which model I go for. :x

I would rather not see FFXIV go free-to-play. I believe it would ruin what makes this game, and I'd probably end up quitting if it did. The reasons for this are quite simple, free to play games are by design, built around a microtransaction system and the idea of mass numbers of players whom don't care for the game (most of the time) and can just drop-in and drop-out with no need for social interaction. The microtransaction system can range from pay for vanity items, through to pay to win. Pay to Vanity is okay, but it tends to make all non-real life money purchased gear look boring in comparison.

I've been playing Guild Wars 2 since the release here in EU and I must say; while it is fun, most definitely fun, it has a microtransaction system. An example would be my Level 17 Norn; the gear that I got at 1, 5, 10 and 15 all look the same; this is what happens in Pay4Vanity; I know there is rare drops that look nice, but they are few and far between.

Even though Guild Wars 2 is fun it lacks something that Final Fantasy XIV has. When I often try to describe this, it never comes out properly.I think it's something to do with the aesthetics of Final Fantasy XIV, the attention to detail on equipment, the emphasis on emotions, the shouts, the social; in Guild Wars 2 even though I'm playing with friends and I occasionally get the "thx" for raising some randomer, the game feels very barren and lonely, the chat bar isn't even important to the player, the fact you can hide the chat window is testiment to this.

One thing I keep spotting in f2p games is the developers needs to keep on using static lightning that then isn't accepted by most of the objects in the game; (as they have their own lighting properties), this is what makes most of F2P games look aeshtetically similar; even GW2 has this problem, and looking at FFXIV: ARR; there was the picture of the twelve church that had the same issue, the spires were pre-lit and not accepting dynamic shadows or lighting, though I'm hoping this is just due to pre-alpha.

I'm not really sure what this post is, a rant? Maybe. But I don't want to see Final Fantasy XIV: ARR ever go free-to-play. Final Fantasy XI had a niche, very strong demographic and community and I want to see Final Fantasy XIV have the same strengths. We have a community currently and we do have our characters here and there, our shouts, even our own catchphrases so to speak; "Heck the Bed" anyone? I never see these sorts of familiarities and involvement in a free-to-play game, even a buy-to-play game.

tl;dr - Free-To-Play and Buy-To-Play lack polish, attention to detail and social interaction. They rely on a microtransaction system that by design wether vanity or progress purchases will make people who don't play feel distanced from the experience. FFXI survived, and FFXIV will too.

I'd rather they focus on there guns, even at 100k x 9.99$ a month it's still a lot of money per-month for a game to be bringing to the table. You don't need big numbers for a mmo to be successful or profitable, you just need to work it right so you can get the best of both worlds.

FFXI was no world of warcraft with subscriber numbers and yet it's been more profitable then everything in the series, that long term investment with subscription is better then the short term yields of the majority of F2P (unless your a very successful F2P like Maple Story).

I'd rather it be P2P, it's not much of a investment 9.99$ a month, most people make twice that a hour these days.

i vote for P2P. :|

heres a hint f2p isnt really free, unless you want to sit around town wearing nub gears lol, it can cost much more than a monthly sub

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

and those people get bored and will quit in a few weeks anyways. I absolutely despise F2P. Please for the love of god keep this game P2P.

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This. This. This.

I vote for P2P too >.>/ F2P games just have this very weird aura to them as if no one really cares about players and people are just more insanely rude then normal o.o/ and anyways we should pay to make sure the development team gets a paycheck to get warm food in their bellies every night!~ think about it if the game went FTP they would starve and Yoshi P is already so skinny... -panic-

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKayla

I vote for P2P too >.>/ F2P games just have this very weird aura to them as if no one really cares about players and people are just more insanely rude then normal o.o/ and anyways we should pay to make sure the development team gets a paycheck to get warm food in their bellies every night!~ think about it if the game went FTP they would starve and Yoshi P is already so skinny... -panic-

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We should send the dev-team wordly packages of international cultural food!

I vote we send them Fish Tacos because who does not like Fish Tacos =3

http://nutmegnotebook.com/wp-content...4-1024x768.jpg