Will there be progression in 2.0?

OH OH OH! Abolish crafting!

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

Get over it is a pretty weak argument. And it still doesn't address the fact that there's no sense of progression in the game. Which you can have with crafters, like I previously mentioned, by having bosses drop rare mats. The argument here is that the best gear in the game is available through easily harvested and crafted mats. You don't NEED to do lighter content to be able to do more difficult content. That's a problem.

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Exactly. But its a problem for some reason that myopic people tend to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

Get over it is a pretty weak argument. And it still doesn't address the fact that there's no sense of progression in the game. Which you can have with crafters, like I previously mentioned, by having bosses drop rare mats. The argument here is that the best gear in the game is available through easily harvested and crafted mats. You don't NEED to do lighter content to be able to do more difficult content. That's a problem.

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Yoshi has addressed your concerns with this, too. I'll see if I can find the quote, but he's changing the stats ratio so 3-5x melded gear won't be nearly as game breaking in the new system.

So your allocated stats will have more weight and non melded gear isn't worthless.

Found it.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Snurble here in your thread~! :p

I wanted to give you some details on what's being planned for stats in A Realm Reborn.

In regards to battle-related stats, it is currently possible to receive large boosts from stats on equipment, while character stats do not have as much of an effect. For example, equipping items with multiple materia melded to it will allow players to become quite powerful. In A Realm Reborn, we are planning to make adjustments so that the ratio of influence from character stats and from gear stats is 1:1. With this, having 5 materia melded onto a single item won’t elicit as large of a difference like it does currently.

Similarly in the current version, even when players add large amounts of INT and STR via equipment with multiple materia and such, it may feel like damage is not increasing and this is due to a damage range that has been set. Fundamentally, battle related stats fluctuate based on the level difference between enemies, and this is also why we are not planning to display evasion rates and other things.

For crafting, the stats in A Realm Reborn will have a greater influence than now, and for gathering, the requirements to obtain HQ items will be visible!

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

Yoshi has addressed your concerns with this, too. I'll see if I can find the quote, but he's changing the stats ratio so 3-5x melded gear won't be nearly as game breaking in the new system.x

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This is good news for me personally. Thank you.

The 7 main battle jobs are what I would consider the main jobs. In no way should BiS gear be available just based on crafting. SE should do what they did in FFXI. Crafting has 0 BiS pieces at lvl cap, however they can make cursed gear but they require a drop from PvE content to use. All of FFXI's BiS gear comes from Abyssea, Voidwatch, Neo Nyzul, or Legion. A couple pieces are cursed but only a few and there are comparable to non cursed ones that are just drops.

Crafting has its place as starter gear and some high and gear which require you to get a PvE drop to unlock. It just feels dumb when someone can go to the AH with a lot of gil and just buy BiS gear.

In response to the dev post, doesn't that just mean equipment will make even less of a difference than it does now? Are they talking about the base stats in particular? Or the extra stats like attack and enmity, which are also available from materia?

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

In response to the dev post, doesn't that just mean equipment will make even less of a difference than it does now? Are they talking about the base stats in particular? Or the extra stats like attack and enmity, which are also available from materia?

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It means pure stat stacking melding won't be as powerful, which is what you're talking about yes?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

The 7 main battle jobs are what I would consider the main jobs. In no way should BiS gear be available just based on crafting. SE should do what they did in FFXI. Crafting has 0 BiS pieces at lvl cap, however they can make cursed gear but they require a drop from PvE content to use. All of FFXI's BiS gear comes from Abyssea, Voidwatch, Neo Nyzul, or Legion. A couple pieces are cursed but only a few and there are comparable to non cursed ones that are just drops.

Crafting has its place as starter gear and some high and gear which require you to get a PvE drop to unlock. It just feels dumb when someone can go to the AH with a lot of gil and just buy BiS gear.

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Actually, this is something unique in XIV that I like myself. BiS gear is all crafted, and it's not nescessarily bad either!
Mind, I do hope that they can implement a sort of 'crafting request' in 2.0 so that one can craft U/U gear for someone else, and for DoL/DoH being far more involved and downright indispensable to acquiring the most powerful gear.

It's simply a matter of refining the current implementation slightly more, really.

Edit: Really, if we DO find a way for the best gear to not be avaiable in the Market Wards and still have crafting and gathering heavily involved in it, would anyone be against it?

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

It means pure stat stacking melding won't be as powerful, which is what you're talking about yes?

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That was my first problem, my second being that gear needs to be more important than it is now so that there's a sense of gear progression. I believe I found this video on these forums, but I'll post it again for people to see because I feel it really gets the point across, especially with how they're handling 2.0 in comparison to WoW and XI:

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Originally Posted by Skies

Actually, this is something unique in XIV that I like myself. BiS gear is all crafted, and it's not nescessarily bad either!
Mind, I do hope that they can implement a sort of 'crafting request' in 2.0 so that one can craft U/U gear for someone else, and for DoL/DoH being far more involved and downright indispensable to acquiring the most powerful gear.

It's simply a matter of refining the current implementation slightly more, really.

Edit: Really, if we DO find a way for the best gear to not be avaiable in the Market Wards and still have crafting and gathering heavily involved in it, would anyone be against it?

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I'm starting to think no one in this thread knows how to play the game if they think all crafted gear is BiS, for everything.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

That was my first problem, my second being that gear needs to be more important than it is now so that there's a sense of gear progression. I believe I found this video on these forums, but I'll post it again for people to see because I feel it really gets the point across, especially with how they're handling 2.0 in comparison to WoW and XI:

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Why does there need to be a "sense of gear progression." I would rather not have the problem WoW faced when it went from vanilla -> bc (when my 6 months worth of raiding went down the drain with a few greens)

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

Why does there need to be a "sense of gear progression." I would rather not have the problem WoW faced when it went from vanilla -> bc (when my 6 months worth of raiding went down the drain with a few greens)

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They've already done that with XIV though. Darkhold gear is garbage, as is HNM gear. Ifrit weapons are trash. I don't agree with how they've handled new expansions in WoW, no. The major jumps from one expansion to another were pretty outrageous. That's not what's being discussed though. I'm bringing up how vanilla was, people say there was a sense of gear progression, it's what keeps higher tier players motivated to keep playing. It's fine if a casual player doesn't have the skill to tackle the hardest content, but this doesn't need to be a casual versus hardcore thread. You can have casual progression too.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

They've already done that with XIV though. Darkhold gear is garbage, as is HNM gear. Ifrit weapons are trash. I don't agree with how they've handled new expansions in WoW, no. The major jumps from one expansion to another were pretty outrageous. That's not what's being discussed though. I'm bringing up how vanilla was, people say there was a sense of gear progression, it's what keeps higher tier players motivated to keep playing. It's fine if a casual player doesn't have the skill to tackle the hardest content, but this doesn't need to be a casual versus hardcore thread. You can have casual progression too.

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Challenging & interesting content will keep serious players interested. (I've been playing MMOs long enough that I'm tired of the hamster wheel of loot)

I don't want to start a casual vs. hardcore arguement either, but a sense of progression is a players perception. That's difficult to measure and discuss. lol

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

They've already done that with XIV though. Darkhold gear is garbage, as is HNM gear. Ifrit weapons are trash. I don't agree with how they've handled new expansions in WoW, no. The major jumps from one expansion to another were pretty outrageous. That's not what's being discussed though. I'm bringing up how vanilla was, people say there was a sense of gear progression, it's what keeps higher tier players motivated to keep playing. It's fine if a casual player doesn't have the skill to tackle the hardest content, but this doesn't need to be a casual versus hardcore thread. You can have casual progression too.

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What is your main class you play and what gear do you use cause you keep saying There is no need to do raids cause crafted gear is better than everything which is not true.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

An example of progression would be:
Hitting 50-->Buying Crafted Gear, which would be needed to survive/do enough dmage in-->Darkhold, which would provide gear that would be needed for-->Aurum Vale/Cutter's Cry/Ifrit/Moogle-->Which would provide gear needed for Garuda/Hardmode Darnus

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Content on rail? No thanks ^^

All gear crafted only is not the best set for any class. It is the mix between crafted and U/U that make the set the best.
Like the body for BLM:
Darklight > Militia > GC officer coat (Gridania & Uldah) > AF > crafted body

If you are a BLM don't use a crafted body.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

They've already done that with XIV though. Darkhold gear is garbage, as is HNM gear. Ifrit weapons are trash. I don't agree with how they've handled new expansions in WoW, no. The major jumps from one expansion to another were pretty outrageous. That's not what's being discussed though. I'm bringing up how vanilla was, people say there was a sense of gear progression, it's what keeps higher tier players motivated to keep playing. It's fine if a casual player doesn't have the skill to tackle the hardest content, but this doesn't need to be a casual versus hardcore thread. You can have casual progression too.

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Any MMO does this though. New expansion and new level cap your old gear because junk because you can equip higher level gear that has better stats. Even FFXI did this when they raised the lvl cap, old gear became obsolete because new higher level gear became available with better stats.

Its not bad to have a gear reset or obsolete old gear when a new level cap comes out.

I still prefer the XI model. Have some equipment slots of crafted gear be fairly easy to obtain but have very good stats and only beaten by the hardest content at the time. Then some equipment slots dungeon gear be fairly easy to obtain and only beaten by a HQ crafting proc of an already expensive recipe.

Something like a crafter can make a pretty good, inexpensive body piece for blm that they use for most of the content, and then they finally replace it in the last or second to last dungeon. Then have one of the first dungeons drop a ring for blm that is some where between the NQ and HQ crafted rings.

I honestly think the problem is the fact that it is POSSIBLE to quad/penta meld gear. While it is rare, the gear is undeniably better than anything that drops. Triple meld should be the highest obtainable meld, in my opinion, simply to make it clear that one piece of melded gear cannot beat a certain drop because the triple meld is still worse.

ITT: People butthurt over l33t crafters. Lrn2craft or quit yo bitching. Crafting, melding especially, is a huge monetary risk and an enormous investment of time/gil. They deserve the rewards they get. What exactly do wars risk running dungeons? Gear dmg? Lol! Please...theres no risk in obtaining dungeon drops bc theres no penalty for failure. A crafter could easily blow up 2mil gil..and thats on the low end. The system is fine. People just wanna be lazy and farm easy dungeon drops all day instead of getting awesome gear from crafters. Melding is tiring but its all about risk/reward playas.