Spamming leveling roulette ad nauseam has really been a wild ride, I want to criticize it but the sheer amount of new players/base jobs I've had in my parties doing these ARR dungeons have been really refreshing and I feel like I'm genuinely helping these people get through the queue faster. I do agree that OC should be giving out more paste, also FT:B should have a paste option too, you'll probably get more people doing attempts if there were more incentive.
For the sake of the argument, internal data might have shown a decline in people running certain roulettes so they added an extra incentive for people who don't normally do those roulettes, because personally after getting omni 100 I stopped doing leveling, tomes are easier to acquire in a hunt train or from other methods.
I would like the Devs to move away from the 1500 tomes model, its fine for the first step but after there needs to be a slight grind (the children yearn for the mines Yoshi-P). For example after you acquire the first weapon the next weapons all require less paste, so the first is 1200 paste but after that it keeps going down as you get more, or you just need a A LOT less for subsequent weapons. That plus an increase to how much drops in OC would've been a healthy option, and not to mention throwing a lifeline to OC because that content is very much lacking in stuff to do, you can't (and shouldn't) expect FATE like content to keep people engaged for 8 to 12 months before it gets any kind of reasonable update.
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02-03-2026, 02:42 AMHammAndCheese
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02-03-2026, 03:54 AMRaim
I think tomes were fine. Its just that the amount it required was way too low.
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02-03-2026, 03:57 AMHyperiusUltimaSo, have you gone and done the other relics? Because I feel like if you're trying to compare anything to Endwalker Relic you're literally comparing a rock in the ground to a rock on the surface. The difference between them isn't much, but it's still a rock. If you want No RNG, go stare at Demiatmas and FATE Farming those. It was essentially the same as ARR's Atma farming, which was part of that relic grind except with slightly better rates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
Light Farming actually had a larger amount of content to go through that could get you Light compared to this. No more grinding the same thing over and over again? Leveling Roulette would like to argue because 20 Paste is the most efficient you're getting out of it, and even then FATE Farms need an efficient group hopping between locations to even match it proper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
High-Level? Like, you forget that there's a third option right? That you can do on the daily? Also, this goes counter to your above point that there's no grinding one piece of content. The thing you're grinding is the Leveling Roulette that, even with its various dungeons in there, you're still just dungeon farming. Don't get me started on how boring 15-50 is...Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
It sucks because not only did the devs flop on it by making it a treadmill, they also should've actually shoved more into South Horn so that the longevity of the content would extend into 7.5. This step should've been a heavily OC-related step because that could incentivize people to go do Forked Tower. It's a disservice to the content to make it the worst option at that for Paste, instead of the best. The job system on the other hand isn't an entire flop, but is a really nice concept that they only executed properly in Forked Tower if you go in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
It was tasteless, mindless grinding and putting tomes without much thought once you did the damn step. We have the same here once those steps are finished. 1500 Tomes for 3 of an item to get a Relic Upgrade - shoving some of EW's stuff into the end of that is pretty rough, but acceptable given how many jobs there are; I'd rather they revert back to what they did in Bozja though because that was definitely one of the best iterations of relic you could ask for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
Heavily subjective. I think it's more a sense of relief after dealing with Gerolt's Paste Quest that took 1200 pieces. In my opinion it's one of the worst grinds because of how mindless it can become just spamming Leveling Roulette or FATE Farming, and really doesn't underscore much else other than being a grindy step for grind's sake - to make it last until 7.5, essentially.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
Again, heavily subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
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02-03-2026, 04:01 AMtorpy
yeah DT relics have absolutely been the best relics the game's ever had. And it's not even close.
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02-03-2026, 11:53 AMSupersnow845
I’m fine with the “second and after relic” step being streamlined but it’s way too low.
They should change it so the second and after is either “repeat the initial grind” or 15000 tomestones
Then maybe add cosmic’s “more relics mean each subsequent one is cheaper” -
02-03-2026, 12:58 PMAlliciaCapulet
I respectfully disagree with OP. If we’re talking about the best relic design FFXIV has had, Bozja is still the clear benchmark—and nothing since has come close.
The issue was never “RNG vs no RNG” in isolation. The problem has always been bad, uncontrolled RNG, like Atmas in ARR, which everyone hated. Bozja didn’t rely on that. Progression there was structured, predictable, and tied to actual gameplay inside dedicated content. You always knew what you were working toward, and your time investment felt intentional.
Likewise, removing light farming isn’t automatically an improvement if it’s replaced by something even more passive. Doing roulettes or unrelated content to progress a relic isn’t meaningful choice—it’s accidental progression. In Bozja, you progressed your relic by engaging with relic content. That’s the key difference.
Choice is important, but Bozja already handled that better than anything we’ve had since. You could farm relic items outside Bozja if you really wanted to, but doing it inside was faster, more engaging, and clearly the intended path. That’s a healthy compromise. What we have now isn’t choice—it’s avoidance. When the optimal way to progress a relic is to not engage with the relic zone at all, something has gone very wrong.
As for “sense of accomplishment,” that’s exactly why many of us preferred Bozja. Clearing CLL, Dalriada, duels, ranking up, farming fragments—those were milestones. Relics felt earned because effort was tied to the system itself, not to generic tomestone income you would have accumulated anyway.
Endwalker failed because relics became purely tomestone-based. Dawntrail so far is failing for a similar reason: even when an instance exists, relic progression barely lives there. That’s not an evolution—that’s a regression with better PR.
Bozja wasn’t perfect, but it respected a core MMO principle: long-term, optional grind content for players who enjoy it. Removing or flattening that grind doesn’t satisfy everyone—it just erases a playstyle. The better solution has always been to add parallel casual-friendly options, not to gut the systems that grind-oriented players actually enjoy.
If anything, Bozja showed that relic content can be engaging, social, and rewarding without forcing everyone into it. That’s the model that worked—and it’s the one many of us want back. -
02-03-2026, 01:44 PMRoehannQuote:
Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet
I totally agree with you! SE took a step backwards when they had a model that worked, worked well and was engaging... Not only was Bozja engaging, the story was fleshed out, the grind was worthy and when done the sense of accomplishment was there. Sometimes I wonder what SE is thinking.. They KNOW how to make a game engaging, and grindy and fun all at once... just look at FF11, but with FF14 in the last two expansions it's like they have given up their creative side for a safer bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet
The thing about safe bets is they don't last, in time they fade and are replaced.. -
02-03-2026, 09:06 PMTeresaFortellThey should have made it consistent with the amount of crystal pastes one can get from doing content outside of OC. Because in the current setting, not many are doing OC for the sake of pastes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenheit
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02-04-2026, 11:43 AMDeejudanne
feather theme looks awful
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03-08-2026, 12:59 AMStriker44We're a bit old on this one, but just want to point out this is only mathematically true when considering the average experience of large numbers of players. It is NOT AT ALL statistically the same thing for any individual. Having a 100% chance of getting 20 exp per battle gives you a 100% guarantee that you will reach the goal in exactly 5 battles. Having a 20% chance of getting 100 exp per battle does not guarantee that you will reach the goal in exactly 5 battles, nor guarantee that it would take at most 5 battles. There is actually about a 1/3 chance that it will take more than 5 battles using the RNG approach, versus a 0% chance that it will take more than 5 battles using the non-RNG approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
Old school JRPG's did indeed go hard on the former. They're also called "old-school" for a reason. Look at all the changes MMO's themselves have made over the past 25 years. Flying, LFG queues, map objectives highlighted - the demographics of RPG gamers have shifted sharply away from those who have the time or preference for some of those old-school approaches. -
03-08-2026, 02:02 AMTurtledeluxe
The best relics are all the ones before EW, visually or otherwise.
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03-08-2026, 05:18 PMPimsan20
And it also is a one thing deal. After competing the quest we can spent tome stone to get the item we need for the relic weapon. Which is a huge improvement!
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03-09-2026, 10:02 PMVeritas-AncoraYeah I think ARR and HW (and even some in StB) had the best looking relics. Then they started giving the best to Ultimates instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe
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03-12-2026, 09:41 AMTimultt
the sole fact this one doesn't require me to speedrun through the hildibrand questline makes this superior imo
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03-12-2026, 10:08 AMTheRealMadruckAlright, lets address this lying post one point at a time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
1. No RNG?!?! Really...so when you have to farm Demiatmas from fates in the purest form of RNG for this expansion's relic weapons based on slot machine mechanics, you don't consider that RNG?!? How do you lie on a public forums so brazenly? Just because one part of the relic grind isn't RNG does not mean people should become delusional with reality because they are knighting for the worst expansion this game has ever seen.
2. Again, another brazen lie. On stage 2 of the relic, you have to farm 10,000 points of Light for the quest Aether, Aether, Everywhere. You do this exactly like the Alex 1 or Hesperos/Pandaemonium grinds of old. This is getting sad...
3. Every single stage of the relic weapon requires you to get 1500 Tomestones of Mathematics, everyone knows this...yet you have the gall to say "it's not a tome grind"!?!? Just wow!
4. You must unlock and progress through South Horn to even start the relic questline! You can't skip the entire zone to even do the relic weapons, the story and demiatma are direct tied to it! Like, I feel like I am replying to something written by a bot...
I am getting sick and tired of SE stans who will lie to others in this playerbase while defending some of the worst garbage designs of past FF14 grinds from RNG Atmas, Light farming, and Tomestone sinks. Players like you Veritas are the very reason SE and YP get away with expansion after expansion getting worse and worse. After 13 years in this game...by far this has been the worst lying and dishonest garbage post I have ever seen from a player...and that speaks volumes!!! -
03-12-2026, 12:40 PMUzephiNo RNG? I guess me quitting and noping this relic because the first step is RNG (demiatma) makes that false.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
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03-12-2026, 11:37 PMVeritas-AncoraWhat part of the word "paste" is confusing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzephi
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03-13-2026, 12:41 AMTheRealMadruckContext matter Veritas! You explicitly posted on the topic of this expansions entire relic grind versus others...not just on the specificity of one step of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
Quote: "I've seen a lot of complaining about the relic(direct implication of this expansions relic), but instead I think we should be looking back at what the relic(same implication again) ISN'T and why this has been better than most of THE RELICS(implying past relic grinds)."
Then you say: "We ALL complained about Endwalker" directly demonstrating you are referencing past relic grinds versus the current!
So now that others are calling you out in regards to your blatant lying post knighting for SE, now it appears you are attempting to save face by gaslighting what you actually said or the clear context of what was written?
Like at this point, either you are the worst liar so far on these forums over the past several years or you are just a forum troll doing this for the kicks. Either way makes it very pathetic! -
03-13-2026, 12:49 AMSticksToFloors
Wait, so do people itt think that relics shouldn't be a long grind? What should they be exactly? Manderville tomestone sinks? If anything the relic grinds are pretty quick, and you only have to do them once. Most players I know who actually play the game are happy with this relic as a sort of greatest hits of relic grinds montage.
Maybe you want to receive them as a daily logon bonus...? -
03-13-2026, 12:50 AMSupersnow845People seem to think that because there is more jobs relics should be easier because people want every relic or somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by SticksToFloors
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03-13-2026, 01:34 AMTheRealMadruckI cannot speak for others, but for myself...I want Relic grinds with clear and represented status of progression. I will never again do a relic grind where SE blatantly develops the laziest form of grind where segments of such grind are based on pure casino/gambling style RNG that creates artificial bloat to keep players subbed. Some small RNG is not at issue(i.e. Fate drop rates in Bojza as a example), yet the drop rates in past relic grinds where incredibly fair. Just to give you a clear example via Bojza, skirmishes gave roughly 10–20% while critical engagements were Roughly 15–30%.Quote:
Originally Posted by SticksToFloors
Now compare that to this expansions garbage stage where you have a 1-5% chance to getting demiatmas you needed...that means you could go do 30 fates on average without seeing one drop(And remember, when this first dropped, this was at a time where you couldn't roll over fates because of Ilvl)!!! So SE knows all this to be a fact from the original Atma grind in 2.0, yet they added it again knowing full well DT was not being well received yet they needed a way to keep their subs up not to upset their investors.
This is my complaint/issue. Instead of relying on amazing content design(yes I will stan for Bojza/Zadnor being one of the best if not the best content done for FF14 in a long time), they resort to garbage quick fixes to prime their numbers. -
03-13-2026, 02:08 AMKiraRavens
I'm really only repeating what others have said but I'd like for the relics to be more than a grind in general... doesn't really matter what we grind, if it's just "go there, do this 300 times, repeat for next relic stage", it's never gonna be fun to do.
Imo, the main issue is that these relic grinds exist for one reason only: to help fill the roulettes or make dead content seem less dead - and that should, if a factor at all, only be a side aspect, not their whole purpose.
The purpose of relics (and the entire game really) should be to provide fun, engaging content, and that's not been the case in a while.
ARR's relics took forever too and were slightly annoying at times, but I agree with others that it was fun to do different things for every stage. Grinding for all 13 weapons is always gonna get boring at some point, but it's a pity these grinds get boring before I'm even half-way through the first one ("thanks for farming 100/200/300 paste - now go get another 600, please" - ugh).
I'm actually glad I hadn't bothered to finish the relic grind before MT came out cause I got a bunch of paste from that, and actually enjoyed running it.
The phantom jobs are a similar story... endless grinding of the same 25 or so fights. It just all feels very lazy. At least give us more story bits/lore to go with it all once we finish 1/3/5/7/10 jobs or whatever. Doesn't have to be a lot, just something to make it worth our while besides funny numbers in a menu. -
03-13-2026, 02:31 AMSticksToFloors
I still don't understand what you guys are wanting exactly with the relics. They have always been extended grinds and that has always been an intentional design choice. All grinds are grinds - you can do most of the steps in OC just as you could do most of the ShB steps in Zadnor/Bozja, and with either you can do it with other duties as well. I would agree with you if you're saying that OC is inferior and boring content but that doesn't have much to do with the relic itself. The RNG element is overstated as well, 5% from a FATE is not as stingy as people make it out to be. You can knock it out pretty quickly, and CE's in OC have a higher drop rate. Is it just that the grind should be shorter in your opinion? Respectfully I disagree. XIV has a very limited set of glamours that are remotely difficult to obtain (and remain so), relics are part of that unique niche. They are purely vanity items meant to generate activity in new and old content, made for the most dedicated players. Do you think that shouldn't be the case? I'm sorry but with one glaring exception which everyone complains about constantly, that has always been what relics are - ancillary rewards for extended engagement in specific content. They're the last vestige of "old-school" style content in the game, I suppose there's a contingent that wouldn't care for it. That should be OK, not every piece of the game is meant for every single player.
I guess I would ask again if you would rather they be a daily login bonus. -
03-13-2026, 03:07 AMKiraRavensI don't know if your question was in response to me but my point was that there should be more variation that actually makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by SticksToFloors
Why do only the DT fates give paste, for example? What if I've maxxed those with the first stage but I'm still missing a lot of the EW/ShB ones - why can't I go and farm it there?
Equally, why does the levelling roulette give 20 and the expert only 15? From a "we do these just so people play the content no one willingly does" point of view, it makes sense, but from a "this is supposed to be fun content" pov it really doesn't. That was my argument. -
03-13-2026, 03:17 AMSticksToFloors
So your issue is that the grinds don't include the specific content that you arbitrarily would rather do? That's not something SE needs to address. Previous relic steps that could be farmed from FATEs are also locked to specific areas. I guess it is a little boring that they're all DT zones this time, but personally I did that grind in OC and just finished up a couple missing starburst with FATEs. As for paste, there is a tremendous variety of content which hands out paste. You can even double-dip grinding AMT (Advanced) for the mount. Roulettes are definitely not the only way. The lower reward from Expert is probably to incentivize doing a broader variety of content for paste rather than the most populated daily roulette which many people already do.
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03-13-2026, 03:22 AMUzephiSo, your post wasn't about the entirety of the grind? Just your convoluted cherry picked section you liked? What about the other steps? You're picking parts saying 'this area doesn't have this' yet it sticks out like a sore thumb elsewhere. You're definitely bootlicking or purposefully trolling with your wording and response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
They could have done anything but a 5% RNGfest as the first step. Quite literally only need 3 FATEs in Living Memory for Free Market for all of DT (edit: I barely touched DT FATEs before the grind, all FM progress was pretty much the relic grind)and only have 3 demiatmas to show for it. Not worth the grind, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by SticksToFloors
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03-13-2026, 03:41 AMOizen
I don't think relics have ever been great content so the bars on the floor for this one
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03-13-2026, 04:00 AMAth192
Honestly Relics should be rather rare weapons, they should just be rare as the nomenclature of the weapon implies. So quite honestly I do think there should be a sizeable grind or hurdle behind them so the people acquiring them can get a big sense of accomplishment out of them. I also think that a easy long grind is preferable than something like difficulty in their particular case, since difficult weapons to acquire are already catered to via other modes..
There's hundreds of other weapon models for glamour available easily or even for sale in the market board if someone wants instant gratification. I do agree the relic is better this time. It gives people who want to play the game a reason to do so. Despite all the people complaining.
Last expansion everyone and their mother had them like candy and I do think that rather dumbed down the entire premise of owning a powerful relic weapon. Too trivial.