Please remove housing lottery and make some other way of house acquisition.

Aside from instanced housing, they could put a limit of one house per account. Max 2 if one is an FC and one is personal. Account wide. Sure, that doesn't deal with multi-boxers, but it does free up a lot of housing from people who own multiple on different characters.

For people who currently own more than the max, they'd handle it the same as server changes in the data center swap-around. Allow players to select which house they want to keep, send all the items in the other house(s) to the npc and refund them the Gil.

They could just go back to the old system of just directly buying plots, with the limitation of one personal house per character and one house per FC.

Though few changes... Set limits to FCs buying and keeping houses based on active member counts. Like 10 for small, 20 for medium and 40 for large. Stop people from having those 1 member FCs holding houses.
Also add new wards when all the plots are bought up.

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Originally Posted by Regis_Paran

So basically you want only very rich people to be able to have a house. Why not just limit it to RMTraders then? Will be easier.

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If you did read the edit, you would have known it will be a no on that statement.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

They could just go back to the old system of just directly buying plots, with the limitation of one personal house per character and one house per FC.

Though few changes... Set limits to FCs buying and keeping houses based on active member counts. Like 10 for small, 20 for medium and 40 for large. Stop people from having those 1 member FCs holding houses.
Also add new wards when all the plots are bought up.

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Define "active." Because a lot of "legit" players would end up losing their fc houses if it's too tight, or it'd do nothing if it's too loose.

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Originally Posted by IOwn92FCHouses

Define "active." Because a lot of "legit" players would end up losing their fc houses if it's too tight, or it'd do nothing if it's too loose.

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Have it run on the same timers as the regular automatic demolish.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

Aside from instanced housing, they could put a limit of one house per account. Max 2 if one is an FC and one is personal. Account wide. Sure, that doesn't deal with multi-boxers, but it does free up a lot of housing from people who own multiple on different characters.

For people who currently own more than the max, they'd handle it the same as server changes in the data center swap-around. Allow players to select which house they want to keep, send all the items in the other house(s) to the npc and refund them the Gil.

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You are bold to assume that they won't grandfather those people in the way they've done for years, but I absolutely approve of the idea!

It should be like WoW's housing, a new ward opens automatically when they are all full. No lottery bs, first come first served, 1 house per account with alt access.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Have it run on the same timers as the regular automatic demolish.

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That's.... exactly what it does right now. FC estates will auto demo if no FC member enters it within 45 days.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

They could just go back to the old system of just directly buying plots, with the limitation of one personal house per character and one house per FC.

Though few changes... Set limits to FCs buying and keeping houses based on active member counts. Like 10 for small, 20 for medium and 40 for large. Stop people from having those 1 member FCs holding houses.
Also add new wards when all the plots are bought up.

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Wait, this would be madness since placard clicking was terrible since it meant waiting for 12 hours and then competing against botters the entire time.

Finally, I much prefer the ability to place bids each new week and go back to doing anything else in-game than camping 1 spot for hours for no reason.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

They could just go back to the old system of just directly buying plots, with the limitation of one personal house per character and one house per FC.

Though few changes... Set limits to FCs buying and keeping houses based on active member counts. Like 10 for small, 20 for medium and 40 for large. Stop people from having those 1 member FCs holding houses.
Also add new wards when all the plots are bought up.

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40??? There are groups that have around 20 members int here that actually use their larges for events and such. 10 is also crazy for just a small.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Storage situation?

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Its been years at this point, but thats the only explanation i remember putting together at that point: as i remember, she hasnt emptied her old house and there wasnt space in her storage for all the stuff, so the relo didnt go through. If thats approximately how that works, i am not 100% sure.
It was one absurd moment to just look at helplessly when someone else sprinted there and bought the plot QQ

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Storage situation?

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The game prevents you from relocating if your storage is too full to be able to fit all of your placed furnishings. Before lottery was a thing, this mattered a lot because you had to be really speedy to get any plot you wanted. Being forced to go back to your plot to free up your storage basically meant whatever you wanted would be taken by the time you were back and ready to relocate.

Errmm . . . I like to know how to sell my house to a RMT ;)

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

If you did read the edit, you would have known it will be a no on that statement.

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But you still want to add an extremely convoluted solution to a (currenly) very simple and straightforward system.
It will not make the things easier for the players (not for those without millions in the bank, anyway).

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

Its been years at this point, but thats the only explanation i remember putting together at that point: as i remember, she hasnt emptied her old house and there wasnt space in her storage for all the stuff, so the relo didnt go through. If thats approximately how that works, i am not 100% sure.
It was one absurd moment to just look at helplessly when someone else sprinted there and bought the plot QQ

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Ah. I had a similar occurrence when we relocated. Though this was during lottery; I just stuffed things into my inventory and then moved when the items were low enough in storage to do so.

I was more confused why she wasn't able to move, unless that happened during the original times (you could just grab) or the timer.

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

Errmm . . . I like to know how to sell my house to a RMT ;)

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They don't sell the "house". They purchase the land as an FC and then sell the FC. Very common black market practice here.

OP obviously doesn't remember the days before the lottery where you were stuck wasting your entire day clicking a placard only to lose to someone time and time again.

The lottery means that you don't have to click nonstop, and you aren't competing against cheaters.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

OP obviously doesn't remember the days before the lottery where you were stuck wasting your entire day clicking a placard only to lose to someone time and time again.

The lottery means that you don't have to click nonstop, and you aren't competing against cheaters.

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We replaced a bad system with a bad system.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

OP obviously doesn't remember the days before the lottery where you were stuck wasting your entire day clicking a placard only to lose to someone time and time again.

The lottery means that you don't have to click nonstop, and you aren't competing against cheaters.

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I will honestly take ANY other system (not saying the lottery is "good" but it's better than the past) they come up with as long as it's not the dang clicking again. The amount of sleep I lost due to having to stay up through the night for a small plot because reminder that you had absolutely ZERO chance at Mediums or Larges with this system and had to own a small and then obsessively check for Mediums and hope you see it first to relocate (and hope you don't have any errors).

We went from a horrible system that made you waste your time, energy and potentially risk your health for the CHANCE at a small (Mediums and larges were out of the table) to a system that lets you leisurely browse your options in a period of multiple days, settle on one with a singular click and gives you gil back in full if you don't win. How is this system just as bad as the previous one? Are we insane now?
This is the best system we've had so far. It allows you to go from nothing to a Large, if only you are the chosen lottery number. Before it was also a game of chance, but you lost so much more in the process.


I'm not saying the system isn't flawed. People abusing multiple bids on alt accounts are not good - but then, what kind of system does SE have to implement to be able to tell a multi alt account FC shell from your buddy that wants to help towards the FC house's bids? How far are we willing to let SE monitor us? They already said they're unwilling to introduce systems that check through our computer's files, for which I am thankful they have kept their word so far. The only way to make these gil farm FCs to lose interest in housing is to divorce the workshop from the house. Unless they want to keep the houses for the flex, many of them will free up nearly instantly.

wows doing it with mo demo and you keep your house

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Originally Posted by Shistar

We went from a horrible system that made you waste your time, energy and potentially risk your health for the CHANCE at a small (Mediums and larges were out of the table) to a system that lets you leisurely browse your options in a period of multiple days, settle on one with a singular click and gives you gil back in full if you don't win. How is this system just as bad as the previous one? Are we insane now?
This is the best system we've had so far. It allows you to go from nothing to a Large, if only you are the chosen lottery number. Before it was also a game of chance, but you lost so much more in the process.


I'm not saying the system isn't flawed. People abusing multiple bids on alt accounts are not good - but then, what kind of system does SE have to implement to be able to tell a multi alt account FC shell from your buddy that wants to help towards the FC house's bids? How far are we willing to let SE monitor us? They already said they're unwilling to introduce systems that check through our computer's files, for which I am thankful they have kept their word so far. The only way to make these gil farm FCs to lose interest in housing is to divorce the workshop from the house. Unless they want to keep the houses for the flex, many of them will free up nearly instantly.

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Current system does have flaws yeah, but it's better than what we had for sure. I do agree though, if they remove the workshop from the house it wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is now. I'm sure they'll find a way to abuse it regardless but at least housing would not suffer as much.

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Originally Posted by JohncarterIx

wows doing it with mo demo and you keep your house

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You can keep your house since it's a saved preset, but you may lose the plot you got it on depending on Private Neighborhoods (mostly being guild/charter neighborhood formed) that decide to throw you out for whatever reason.
For some that might not be a big issue, but when you got a very specific plot for your place and you lose out of it, that could ruin your enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

Current system does have flaws yeah, but it's better than what we had for sure. I do agree though, if they remove the workshop from the house it wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is now. I'm sure they'll find a way to abuse it regardless but at least housing would not suffer as much.

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At this point of the game, it is extremely unlikely they can do something to stop shell FCs. If they make the requirements stricter, they'll just meet the requirements. And there's a point in which it begins hurting real players who are playing legitimately, so I am not surprised they've left these shell FCs to do whatever they want.
Since the issue we're discussing here is the fact that they're padding the lotteries like crazy, at least removing the one reason they typically are after houses would alleviate it. Then you'd only be left with people who use these strategies to buy entire wards for fun/decorating/"rp", but what can you do... there's a fine line that is nearly non-existent when it comes to stopping these people but not hurting the players who are playng nice with the rules.


Next step would be making the workshop not as insanely profitable, but that is an issue housing won't be concerned about if they separate the two concepts first. One step at a time, hopefully.

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Originally Posted by Shistar

We went from a horrible system that made you waste your time, energy and potentially risk your health for the CHANCE at a small (Mediums and larges were out of the table) to a system that lets you leisurely browse your options in a period of multiple days, settle on one with a singular click and gives you gil back in full if you don't win. How is this system just as bad as the previous one? Are we insane now?
This is the best system we've had so far. It allows you to go from nothing to a Large, if only you are the chosen lottery number. Before it was also a game of chance, but you lost so much more in the process.


I'm not saying the system isn't flawed. People abusing multiple bids on alt accounts are not good - but then, what kind of system does SE have to implement to be able to tell a multi alt account FC shell from your buddy that wants to help towards the FC house's bids? How far are we willing to let SE monitor us? They already said they're unwilling to introduce systems that check through our computer's files, for which I am thankful they have kept their word so far. The only way to make these gil farm FCs to lose interest in housing is to divorce the workshop from the house. Unless they want to keep the houses for the flex, many of them will free up nearly instantly.

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Just because what we have now is slightly better than what we had before in some aspects, does not means that we need to stop improvements.

Just as for humanity once stone tools were the best that we ever had. Does not means that we need to accept stone tools and stop seeking for better materials, does it?

At least with old system everyone who wanted a house and was determined enough - was getting a house. And you could purchase relo from another player for gil for the plot of your dreams. There was no situation where you were homeless for an YEAR.

I suppose the only solution for that kind of issue is granting players access to a personal property that is not involved with the current housing/apartment system.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Just because what we have now is slightly better than what we had before in some aspects, does not means that we need to stop improvements.

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I never said that. I literally wrote a whole paragraph (which you also quoted) where I am saying the system is indeed flawed still. It's just that I personally think your ideas are consistently worse than what we have already. The "least worse" one is maybe the queue, but as many before me pointed out, you're just asking for systems with more loopholes to abuse.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

At least with old system everyone who wanted a house and was determined enough - was getting a house. And you could purchase relo from another player for gil for the plot of your dreams. There was no situation where you were homeless for an YEAR.

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False. The old system had many more ways to prevent someone from getting a house than we have right now. Bad luck? No house. Bots spamming placard? No house. Someone got in your way and you couldn't click the sign in the 0.3 seconds the house was available before someone grabbed it? No house. Can't stay aware 14 hours day and night, with no bathroom or food breaks, because it might just free up the moment you stand up? Guess what. No house!
I can and have made many compromises for housing, but I draw the line at the player's health. The old system should have never lasted as long as it did. Having to put everything on the line for a chance at a virtual house is toxic. If you truly think the old system was better in any way, I'm afraid we might never see eye to eye on this topic.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I know I would abandon my FC house if I didn't need it for the workshop.

In my defense though, I wasn't intentionally trying to be a "shell FC" but rather the FC just never grew on account of being on Maduin. The sad irony though is that even if I gave up the plot, it would probably remain vacant for years, just as it had before I bought it.

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I am not on NA so I don't know how things are in Maduin, but in Phantom (a fairly small server in generally quiet Chaos DC, in a region that is only 1/3rd the size of yours), growing FCs is very difficult too, but not impossible. It just takes triple the work, and it is work. But I find it enjoyable personally.
If you want your FC to grow, you'll have to fight for it with tooth and nail, especially at the start... then, as you gain momentum, it all gets easier. But those first few members are super rough to settle every time. What do you want to make with your FC?

Let us erect any size plot house in the island. It's MASSIVE. Most people don't care about neighbours. In fact most people just want to decorate and would hate to have a neighbour.
I believe it's coming tbh. Just be patient.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

we need some system that will prevent people from permalosing lottery.

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you win eventually, if you keep participating.

being little tactical can boost anyone's chances. bid for small instead of medium. bid for goblet plot.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Yeah, Maduin is part of Dynamis, which is more or less the NA equivalent of Chaos for EU when it comes to low population. And I've found it kinda... pointless to build an FC over here because there's so many things working against any kind of growth, including there being way bigger and better FCs even for our small size.
[snipped the rest due to character limit]

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From my understanding, you guys don't even get regular DF pops, and your wards are generally empty? Chaos has a fairly healthy DF still and popular districts are usually full, provided you're not trying to play in the dead of night or you consider Empyreum popular, nevermind the Goblet lol. Although my world is small I would say Chaos is doing leagues better than Dynamis, but what do I know... :'D

It seems you've already reached a conclusion on your own. If you're not ready to fully let go of your houses yet, I would recommend getting the help of a friend to add an alt to your FC, making them the leader so you can continue to manage the workshop and possibly move your main to an FC within Dynamis or straight up another world/DC of your preference.

In the end, you've said it yourself: the house will likely stay unclaimed until someone wants it, but until you find such a person you'll be stuck there. It may be worth simply letting it go so you can move on to something more enjoyable. Don't let a house you barely care about keep you hostage. When someone wants that house, they will be able to claim it. You can participate in lotteries in another world/DC and you may win sooner than you expect. Just gotta give it a try, you know? And consistency is key, of course.

Housing lottery is definitely a bad system and made because square has no other way of solving this. Their usual reply is: "this is stressful for servers and we can't fix it sorry" in 2025 yeah. It's just another mean of having you sub till the end.

Individual houses are hard to get as there can be around 80-200 people on one plot so good luck winning that. FC houses are even worse due to many RMT FC's that have 20+ chars with millions so they can bid and win every single time unless you somehow get lucky with your ticket. No restrictions house, the worst one. Then you have FC's that always massively bid on large houses so they can sell it to next person via trading websites. That's a fun thing.

Workshops are one of the causes why people want to take every plot and district for themselves. It generates infinite money and RMT. I only won large house because I was on one of emptiest servers and many many people left this game and their large houses as they aren't interested in this mess anymore. That just shows how many people square lost. So around 100 larges opened and even then it was extremely hard to get one.

So how about not defending this system and call it good.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Only thing really holding me back is not really knowing WHERE I would go because I don't know much about Aether/Primal/Crystal beyond them being "the raiding/PVP/RP data centers" respectively, or how due to congestion a lot of worlds regularly end up being blocked as a transfer destination so I couldn't just go wherever I wanted when I wanted. I'd rather not pay for a transfer only to end up regretting the place I ended up even more than Maduin, lol.

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This is the time to begin your investigation, then! Check out FC listings on the lodestone and see if anything catches your eye, if you have any friends in other DCs ask them about their world/FC and see if someone can take you in. Go talk to strangers and see what they can tell you. Channel your inner nosy adventurer lol I find that most people are surprisingly happy to have a chat and some might even invite you to their FC straight up. If I was you, I would aim for a lively DC (not congested, but not absolutely dead) that still has a little opportunity for housing. If you don't care about housing at all, going to the most populated server you can will net you the most possibilites at finding an FC to your liking or creating your own and recruiting others. I wish you the best of luck!

I dislike the lotto but the old system was really bad. It was either a group of people camping the sign and then spamming to buy it or if it was a new ward, whoever logged in first after maintenance. So now we are at the mercy of lotto RNG as it was the only solution that was technically fair. Keep in mind that it was also BROKEN when it was first implemented and that didn't sit well with players. I don't know if we'll ever get a proper solution. Who knows, maybe if a certain rival MMO blows them away with their long awaited housing, we'll see if Square actually does something meaningful.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

So how about not defending this system and call it good.

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So far I haven't seen anyone defending the Lottery system, but rather pointing out that it is better than what we had previously by quite a bit and still better than the 'options' the OP offered which were frankly outright terrible. Unfortunately the Lottery system is going to end up remaining the best choice for us so long as SE clings to the current Housing set up.

The ironic part about all of it is that Blizzard is proving you can have the Neighborhood set up without it destroying servers. Every account will be guaranteed 2 houses that all your characters on said account can access regardless of server or Faction. One private neighborhood house and one public. It seems the way they are handling it is technically each plot is sort of pseudo instanced since you can control who is allowed on your yard and those who aren't are blocked by a wall of mist and cannot even see it.

Though it would likely require SE to redo the housing system from the ground up I think they need to bite the bullet and do that. Even more so since there are rumors that the initial housing code is terrible because it was originally outsourced rather than done in house. Of course there's no proof of that, but if true it would explain a lot.

How many people here remember the hours of clicking?

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Originally Posted by Basteala

How many people here remember the hours of clicking?

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My wrist has PTSD.

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Originally Posted by Basteala

How many people here remember the hours of clicking?

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I even remember the time before placard clicking ;)

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Originally Posted by Yodada

I even remember the time before placard clicking ;)

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Heh, so do I. Housing was the wild west back then...

IMO

Lottery with pseudo-RNG (Increasing each time you lose a lottery) is the best approach..... Ideally they would just stop with the scarcity/ward approach entirely though, so that way we don't have to worry about any of this....

We had the original system which was the wild west, and facilitated for buying and selling of houses between players rather than leaving them open book... With the exception of when they were naturally demolished or just didn't care.

We then had the abysmally designed system of placard spamming accompanied by a hidden RNG timer on when the house was actually available... At this point you were basically just asking people to either sit their and train their wrists into fatigue or use third party auto-click.

Then we have this... Not without problems, but it did solve the point of buying and selling houses between players, in addition to the fairly unhealthy gameplay that it promoted with placard spamming.

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Originally Posted by Selsix

My wrist has PTSD.

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May I never experience this in my life ever again including the nights where I fell asleep with my laptop in bed trying SO HARD to stay awake in order to have a *chance* at winning the plot. Spoiler alert, I never did win the plot during these times.