A Realm Reborn Items Menu

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Originally Posted by Tiago

Its exactly what makes icon invetory menu worst than XI was.

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what the actual f**k

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

Response was too stupid to be trolling. He actually believes what he said.

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Why was it too stupid? Is anything of what i said on that reply wrong at all? Will the Icons show names instead? We wont have to get the mouse over an item to see its name? You'll have a search feature to search the items instead of looking at their icons to see if its the item ur searching?

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Originally Posted by Tiago

Why was it too stupid? Is anything of what i said on that reply wrong at all? Will the Icons show names instead? We wont have to get the mouse over an item to see its name? You'll have a search feature to search the items instead of looking at their icons to see if its the item ur searching?

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You know, the main reason why FFXI has a list is because it's a port off the PS2 version. If it annoys you so much, the PS3 controller UI will probably have the list menu, you can always play like that.

Hell i use controller and i want the pc item bags menu the scroll down list just takes fkin forever.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

You know, the main reason why FFXI has a list is because it's a port off the PS2 version. If it annoys you so much, the PS3 controller UI will probably have the list menu, you can always play like that.

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You know before XI was released for PS2 its been almost 2 or 3 years out for PC only right? So it was a item list pre and past PS2 version.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

Why was it too stupid? Is anything of what i said on that reply wrong at all? Will the Icons show names instead? We wont have to get the mouse over an item to see its name? You'll have a search feature to search the items instead of looking at their icons to see if its the item ur searching?

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Hovering your mouse over the item does not take any more effort than scrolling through your list to get to where the item is.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Hell i use controller and i want the pc item bags menu the scroll down list just takes fkin forever.

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Because u were probably too slow to figure how it worked the best way.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

You know before XI was released for PS2 its been almost 2 or 3 years out for PC only right? So it was a item list pre and past PS2 version.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_fantasy_xi

No. You are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

You know before XI was released for PS2 its been almost 2 or 3 years out for PC only right? So it was a item list pre and past PS2 version.

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/facepalm

FFXI came out for PS2 first. It is a direct port from the PS2 version to the PC version.

JP PS2- May 16th, 2002
JP Windows- November 7th, 2002

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Hovering your mouse over the item does not take any more effort than scrolling through your list to get to where the item is.

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It does if i want to play mostly with Controller only. And no, i wont skip to PS3 just because i wanna play with a controller. They added it to PC so yeah, why skip to PS3 to play with a controller? I hate to use my mouse over stuff while playing with a controller tbh. Why not just put a UI buttom for "Enable/disable item list menu"? Everyone whould be happy that way since so many hate the item list, mostly because they actually have lag atm on it and some didnt play XI long enough to get used to it.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

It does if i want to play mostly with Controller only.

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That's all I need to know. The controller/PS3 UI will be available on PC. Shut up and stop replying to this topic.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

/facepalm

FFXI came out for PS2 first. It is a direct port from the PS2 version to the PC version.

JP PS2- May 16th, 2002
JP Windows- November 7th, 2002

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Well i was wrong then because ive never actually read how the JP release was, but that it was released 1 year pre-US version and 2 years pre-EU version. Still, they could just have changed into Item icon menu for PC - 6 months are enough to make an icon based menu i whould say, no? It worked good for all the 3 platforms, i've never heard anything against it and about it being slow.

As someone who designs UIs in one form or another quite often - the golden rule should always be "First, do no harm". Between cascading menus, non-optimal search algorithms, and failure to follow genre conventions, the 1.0 interface broke that rule in spectacular fashion. It may come as a surprise to some that the very last thing that dictates a good interface is how "good" it looks. That, of course, comes into play; but only after everything else has been dealt with.

As apposed to the 1.0 interface, the 2.0 interface looks quite well tuned to it's platform. Information is presented to the user in a compressed fashion without overloading them (I particularly like how they've compressed the equipment, stat allotment, and character info pages into one page). Similarly, everything response the way you would expect given the platform: context menus when right-clicking, drag-and-drop icons, hover-over tooltips. These are all things that people expect when using a mouse and keyboard. It has nothing to do with MMOs, or even games. It's learned behavior from years of day to day use on a computer.

Everyone will have personal visual preferences, but the ability to easily access controls - in this case items from your inventory - is ubiquitous and essential. What is "right" is entirely dependent on your platform. I would not be making this argument for the PS3, for instance. "Simplicity" depends entirely on user input. On a PS3, having a list-page like control makes more sense, given the absence of some 200 keys.

As for the problem of not being able to tell one log from another. The solution is deceptively simple: Don't make your players select items to craft. Design around your UI limitations and no-one will even notice they are there. If to craft an item, you just open a journal and select the thing you want to make and it starts the synth process as long as you have the materials, there's no need to hunt down the materials.

Honestly, between gearsets and the recipe book we've been promised, I don't foresee Inventories being used for much other than asking "how much space do I physical have on me?" Besides, while this is somewhat of a cop out, if you seriously want to be able to see the names of items next to them at all times (or even a list), it sounds like the user created content will be robust enough to allow you to make a mod that does that.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

That's all I need to know. The controller/PS3 UI will be available on PC. Shut up and stop replying to this topic.

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And how do you know about this? I want to read about it. Please link me up to it.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

Well i was wrong then because ive never actually read how the JP release was, but that it was released 1 year pre-US version and 2 years pre-EU version. Still, they could just have changed into Item icon menu for PC - 6 months are enough to make an icon based menu i whould say, no? It worked good for all the 3 platforms, i've never heard anything against it and about it being slow.

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They could have done many things with the PC version. Though it doesn't change the fact that the Keyboard/mouse was not optimized the way it should be and one could easily notice that the controls favor a controller.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

And how do you know about this? I want to read about it. Please link me up to it.

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http://wdl.square-enix.com/ffxiv/dow...Outline_EN.pdf

Really dude? This has been known and posted for like a year.

Even with a gamepad being able to move across a grid will be a lot faster than scrolling up and down a list. It's starting to really get to me how annoying moving up and down a list is and I played FF11 with a gamepad for like 7-8 years.

Re: Icons, information will undoubtedly pop up when your cursor is over an item and if you are wanting to look at your item list at a glance its easier to see when everything is laid out and visible for you. Like Hulan brought up, crafting is going to be done by selecting recipes instead of selecting the item out of the list removing the only real issue with any items that may look similar to each other.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

It doesnt look bad, just XI is better to search for items, etc. On crafting for example, i mostly search for the items names and add it to the craft menu. On the new system i'll have to look at all the (for example ) Logs to find the Oak for my crafts, and if Retainers menu are the same, i'll have alot of icons to search for it instead of just search their names...

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No, you don't have to find the oak in your inventory to craft with 2.0
You only have to find the recipe in your recipe book
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post567971

And the bags support manual sorting, by the way ^^
and the inventory size is 100 items (4 bags with 25 slots each) with 2.0

We have only seen the mouse&keyboard UI. I can't wait to see the gamepad UI ^^

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Originally Posted by Hulan

As someone who designs UIs in one form or another quite often - the golden rule should always be "First, do no harm". Between cascading menus, non-optimal search algorithms, and failure to follow genre conventions, the 1.0 interface broke that rule in spectacular fashion. It may come as a surprise to some that the very last thing that dictates a good interface is how "good" it looks. That, of course, comes into play; but only after everything else has been dealt with.

As apposed to the 1.0 interface, the 2.0 interface looks quite well tuned to it's platform. Information is presented to the user in a compressed fashion without overloading them (I particularly like how they've compressed the equipment, stat allotment, and character info pages into one page). Similarly, everything response the way you would expect given the platform: context menus when right-clicking, drag-and-drop icons, hover-over tooltips. These are all things that people expect when using a mouse and keyboard. It has nothing to do with MMOs, or even games. It's learned behavior from years of day to day use on a computer.

Everyone will have personal visual preferences, but the ability to easily access controls - in this case items from your inventory - is ubiquitous and essential. What is "right" is entirely dependent on your platform. I would not be making this argument for the PS3, for instance. "Simplicity" depends entirely on user input. On a PS3, having a list-page like control makes more sense, given the absence of some 200 keys.

As for the problem of not being able to tell one log from another. The solution is deceptively simple: Don't make your players select items to craft. Design around your UI limitations and no-one will even notice they are there. If to craft an item, you just open a journal and select the thing you want to make and it starts the synth process as long as you have the materials, there's no need to hunt down the materials.

Honestly, between gearsets and the recipe book we've been promised, I don't foresee Inventories being used for much other than asking "how much space do I physical have on me?" Besides, while this is somewhat of a cop out, if you seriously want to be able to see the names of items next to them at all times (or even a list), it sounds like the user created content will be robust enough to allow you to make a mod that does that.

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^ Nail in the coffin right here. No further posts are necessary in this crappy thread.

I prefer lists over icons personally, though the current item lists could have used different tabs and other features.

If today's standards are icons and that's what the majority of gamers like, then I'm fine with it.

NOW NOW BOYS AND GIRLS PLAY NICE . seriously you ppl vicker like little childern

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Originally Posted by Tiago

That's not what i hear from my WoW friends. They saw me playing Runes of Magic at some point and were always telling me that its a WoW copy and how they couldnt make their own stuff. And yes, i'm a FF fan and will always be, and i see no problems defending what i like. And this is a FF remember?

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I can't tell if you're trolling or not but seriously? Copy WoW's item window menu? People who say these things are those whose first MMO was World of Warcraft. You DO realize that there are many games before World of Warcraft that uses the inventory window, right? Complaining about the way the item menu looks is like complaining that FFXIV should not use grass because World of Warcraft used grass as well.

Go read a book or something.

If I recall correctly, I read that the inventory would be viewable in both the grid and list formats.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

As someone who designs UIs in one form or another quite often - the golden rule should always be "First, do no harm". Between cascading menus, non-optimal search algorithms, and failure to follow genre conventions, the 1.0 interface broke that rule in spectacular fashion. It may come as a surprise to some that the very last thing that dictates a good interface is how "good" it looks. That, of course, comes into play; but only after everything else has been dealt with.

As apposed to the 1.0 interface, the 2.0 interface looks quite well tuned to it's platform. Information is presented to the user in a compressed fashion without overloading them (I particularly like how they've compressed the equipment, stat allotment, and character info pages into one page). Similarly, everything response the way you would expect given the platform: context menus when right-clicking, drag-and-drop icons, hover-over tooltips. These are all things that people expect when using a mouse and keyboard. It has nothing to do with MMOs, or even games. It's learned behavior from years of day to day use on a computer.

Everyone will have personal visual preferences, but the ability to easily access controls - in this case items from your inventory - is ubiquitous and essential. What is "right" is entirely dependent on your platform. I would not be making this argument for the PS3, for instance. "Simplicity" depends entirely on user input. On a PS3, having a list-page like control makes more sense, given the absence of some 200 keys.

As for the problem of not being able to tell one log from another. The solution is deceptively simple: Don't make your players select items to craft. Design around your UI limitations and no-one will even notice they are there. If to craft an item, you just open a journal and select the thing you want to make and it starts the synth process as long as you have the materials, there's no need to hunt down the materials.

Honestly, between gearsets and the recipe book we've been promised, I don't foresee Inventories being used for much other than asking "how much space do I physical have on me?" Besides, while this is somewhat of a cop out, if you seriously want to be able to see the names of items next to them at all times (or even a list), it sounds like the user created content will be robust enough to allow you to make a mod that does that.

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Thread over, this guy won.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

It's a pre-alpha build, it may not look the same after launch. Also, it's better than what we currently have imo.

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No it's not, alpha maybe but certainly not pre-alpha. Remember how version 1.0's beta went and everyone said it was going to change by release and it turned out nothing did? What you see is most likely what you'll be getting.

I wish they'd just show the damn controller UI already

2.0 wouldn't be a real WoWclone without a copy-pasted inventory system.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

In my opinion, this new items menu is silly and it wont be any better of what we currently have but actually prob worst.

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YES I WAS WAITING FOR ONE OF THESE POSTS!

Yeah because obviously the convenience of manually organizing and having on-hand access to all of your items is a lot worse than a long vertical list that takes ages to scroll through.

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Originally Posted by Inzoum

No it's not, alpha maybe but certainly not pre-alpha.

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Yes, yes it is.

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Originally Posted by Inzoum

No it's not, alpha maybe but certainly not pre-alpha. Remember how version 1.0's beta went and everyone said it was going to change by release and it turned out nothing did? What you see is most likely what you'll be getting.

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Alpha has not begun yet, so it is pre-alpha.

Simple concept is simple.

How dare they make a mouse / keyboard friendly UI for a PC game!

2.0 Menu > 1.0 Menu

Player mods.

some people just don't seems to get it, the reason of the whole item menu change to icon is because of Mouse+Keyboard friendly, the scrolling menu is more geared towards Controller setup :\

just hope yoshi give us 2 options when ARR release or in Beta... .

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

some people just don't seems to get it, the reason of the whole item menu change to icon is because of Mouse+Keyboard friendly, the scrolling menu is more geared towards Controller setup :\

just hope yoshi give us 2 options when ARR release or in Beta... .

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Nah, some people just freak out whenever any aspects or systems from this game resemble WoW or FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

some people just don't seems to get it, the reason of the whole item menu change to icon is because of Mouse+Keyboard friendly, the scrolling menu is more geared towards Controller setup :\

just hope yoshi give us 2 options when ARR release or in Beta... .

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True story, icon/grid inventory system works with controllers and is arguably better than lists for controllers as well. There are very few things lists do better than grids, and overall grids remain the superior system.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Alpha has not begun yet, so it is pre-alpha.

Simple concept is simple.

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No it's not that simple. Public alpha hasn't started. This has nothing to do with the title development cycle. The game could be at alpha stage for 3 months without you knowing it.

Stop calling it pre-alpha. Either you are in the dev team and knows exactly where ARR is on its development cycle, either you don't know anything and are only assuming things.

Believing that a software alpha stage only starts when it goes public is stupid. It could (and most likely would) start way before that. SE won't ship an alpha client to us without making internal tests first.

"Congrats guy, we reached a new milestone, ARR is now Alpha"
"Quick let's release it now!"

I'm not a fan of wikipedia, but at least since you seems completely clueless, this could help you : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...fe_cycle#Alpha

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Originally Posted by Antipika

No it's not that simple. Public alpha hasn't started. This has nothing to do with the title development cycle. The game could be at alpha stage for 3 months without you knowing it.

Stop calling it pre-alpha. Either you are in the dev team and knows exactly where ARR is on its development cycle, either you don't know anything and are only assuming things.

Believing that a software alpha stage only starts when it goes public is stupid.

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hmm strange that Yoshi him self mention is not yet in alpha stage... o_O im pretty sure is one of the gamescom interview... .

There is still no way to know. Anything can be said to us it doesn't make it a fact, only devs knows all the details. For the first version of the game, the build we had on day 1 of public alpha test was already dated.

(That's also why lot of people were saying "don't worry guys we're sure that SE got a more recent build" (well in the end even if they had, it's not like it fixed anything :d), but still.)

If this menu will allow me to put 6 items in craft within 10 seconds, I dont mind at all. I am spending minute right now to find all stuff.