About That Locker

Is this the fanfiction thread? Great!

*drops my Raogrimm x Sabrina fanfic*

complaining about the most gay mmorpg on this planet about a scene that he most likely interpreted wrong

real first world problems here

Honestly don't see where people get the pro or con LGBTQ vibes from the story characters, there's not a single open LGBTQ character in the game.

There's barely straight affection showing anywhere between characters outside of families and friends.
Besides failed romance (little sun as example) acting as joke material there's no "feelings" displayed or expressed above firm handshake levels.

I've been questioning why there's no pregnancies or surprise babies in the game. Nation leaders like Nanamo and Hien should have heirs by now.
(Gulool Ja I guess, but he's not made out of love and that's his tragic arc)

But about LGBTQ, I never felt like this was meant by the writing and more a narrative that the community pushed while over analyzing and theory crafting.

Besides, you cant write LGBTQ into pertinence for a plot because China will block anything about homosexuality, probably other places too.

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Even if Demetrius doesn't say he's into Calyx I think it's clear what conclusion they want us to make when we find his locker. Whoever put it in probably wasn't intentionally trying to be homophobic but it's such a common trope that they might've not even noticed they were doing it.

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Imma go take down those baby Yoda posters before you get any funny ideas about me then...

Oh look another post about someone complaining about something that isn't there.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

Besides, you cant write LGBTQ into pertinence for a plot because China will block anything about homosexuality, probably other places too.

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That's precisely why all relationships are written through ambiguous subtext and subtlety that are up to interpretation.

Censorship doesn't mean these things cease to exist. They just get concealed through layers of vague talk. People in these communities, speaking from experience, are practically trained to read through subtext and allusions, because that's the only way you get to see that representation at all, and are often able to pick up on things that will seem unintuitive or a stretch to others.

Being vague gives writers and developers the ability to distribute their content in countries with strict regulations, while those who know what to lookout for will be able to read through hints. At the same time, to those who don't want to see any romance in their content, it gives the ability to completely ignore it.

The unfortunate side effect is that there will be forever the debate of "no one is openly stated to be in a relationship/be queer, so it's not happening" because, well, it will never be "official" for one reason or another.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

That's precisely why all relationships are written through ambiguous subtext and subtlety.

Censorship doesn't mean these things cease to exist. They just get concealed through layers of vague talk. People in these communities, speaking from experience, are practically trained to read through subtext and allusions, because that's the only way you get to see that representation at all, and are often able to pick up on things that will seem unintuitive or a stretch to others.

Being vague gives writers and developers the ability to distribute their content in countries with strict regulations, while those who know what to lookout for will be able to read through hints. At the same time, to those who don't want to see any romance in their content, it gives the ability to completely ignore it.

The unfortunate side effect is that there will be forever the debate of "no one is openly stated to be in a relationship/be queer, so it's not happening" because, well, it will never be "official" for one reason or another.

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I agree. People just need to level their expectations, this is never going to be more than that.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

If you read the notes you see that he's totally obsessed with Calyx for how brilliant he is. He admires him not loves him.
Its fanboying obsession, not Romance

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Unfortunately that's how some people on the internet like to look at 2 people without thinking first.

Someone admiring someone else=they're in love with them.

Two people having coffee together at a cafe=they're dating.

Two best friends who like to spend a lot of time together=they're couple.

Projection at its finest.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

I agree. People just need to level their expectations, this is never going to be more than that.

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I'd say people are free to discuss the implications of interactions between certain characters, because there are definitely scenes that are pretty loaded with hints for those who can and want to see them.

But anyone who expects to ever see an open statement about some character dating another probably will be dissapointed in the long run. Both because they're unlikely to do that for reasons of publishing the game in countries with censorship, and because Character x WoL ships are a popular thing within the community. They'd want to avoid open statements for role-playing reasons, as well.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

Honestly don't see where people get the pro or con LGBTQ vibes from the story characters, there's not a single open LGBTQ character in the game.

There's barely straight affection showing anywhere between characters outside of families and friends.
Besides failed romance (little sun as example) acting as joke material there's no "feelings" displayed or expressed above firm handshake levels.

I've been questioning why there's no pregnancies or surprise babies in the game. Nation leaders like Nanamo and Hien should have heirs by now.
(Gulool Ja I guess, but he's not made out of love and that's his tragic arc)

But about LGBTQ, I never felt like this was meant by the writing and more a narrative that the community pushed while over analyzing and theory crafting.

Besides, you cant write LGBTQ into pertinence for a plot because China will block anything about homosexuality, probably other places too.

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I thought China allows gay stuff in video games but apparently this changed a few years back. I doubt that's why we haven't seen many.

This game's trying to get the best of both worlds. They imply some NPCs are LGBT but hold off on confirmation most of the time so less accepting players can ignore it. And a few of the more overt examples are negative like I mentioned.

For the characters that ARE confirmed, they're usually minor or have some kind of explanation that lets them get away with it. Sadu's a lesbian but she and the other Xaela are more like comic relief now. The fae and dragons are non-binary but it's because they're inhuman. The gay guys from the Wandering Palace don't even have names.

TL;DR It could be worse but it also could be better.

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Is it just me or does someone on the writing team not like queer people? Doesn't happen very often since there aren't many LGBT NPCs in the MSQ, but it seems like any time they reveal a male character's definitely gay or bi it's to show how creepy he is. Japanese Haurchefant makes those weird comments to the WOL, most of the awful things we see Asahi do are to impress Zenos, and now there's that joke they added with Demetrius.

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Well the director is a grown man.... 47...

Calyx is a 12 year old boy?

so if there is anything... the director is a PDF File that boy (the director) just ain't right lol

that all said people going in on Calyx' plan not going right are silly ofc the MC is gonna win
Calyx is not a trained battle tactician. he is a scientist kid a brilliant one very apparently

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Realistically I think they had other reasons for Haurchefant but it's definitely quite the coincidence he died after he became a serious character. Ysayle's death had more to do with her being a woman in a Maehiro storyline.

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Also they might've retconned his feelings as brotherly love if you're meant to believe what Artoirel said.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

Honestly don't see where people get the pro or con LGBTQ vibes from the story characters, there's not a single open LGBTQ character in the game.

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there are some LGBT+ characters ingame they just don't have important roles they are side characters their are quest lines with queer characters who definitely confirm their orientation/preference.

as for major characters Haurchefant, G'raha, and Aymeric(to a degree) do show a very keen interest into the player character and some of their actions point towards them seeing something more in the player character
for example: Haurchefant sheltering us introducing us to his family an even betraying his own religion/society to side with us can be viewed as actions of love or admiration.

G'raha probably even the biggest fan of the player character he sacrificed his timeline and later even his own life just to prevent us from facing our demise and making food for the player character while having nervous gestures on display when delivering it are signs of someone being in love and a deep connection.

Aymeric invites us to his own home for dinner and fights alongside us in a couple of occasions and offers us a higher position within ishgard but is turned down ultimately as the player character is an adventurer thru an thru an not ready to retire from their adventures yet. but if anything you can view Aymeric's choices as platonic more so than romantic

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Is it just me or does someone on the writing team not like queer people? Doesn't happen very often since there aren't many LGBT NPCs in the MSQ, but it seems like any time they reveal a male character's definitely gay or bi it's to show how creepy he is. Japanese Haurchefant makes those weird comments to the WOL, most of the awful things we see Asahi do are to impress Zenos, and now there's that joke they added with Demetrius.

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It's funny you mention that, because Haurchefant is--I understand--a weirdly endearing trope in Japanese culture for a character. The localization team changed Haurchefant for American audiences, a controversial decision at the time, because the localization team was concerned at how American audiences would perceive, and dislike, Haurchefant's mannerisms.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Isn't Calyx supposed to have been very young? I forget his age but wasn't he a child prodigy? I would think we'd have more serious problems if we were supposed to reach this as romantic.

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How do people routinely see boys as young as Calyx--even uses the child NPC model--and go "umm...I think...he's a child possibly??" then see a grown adult woman and go

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...486/cover7.jpg

Also, they're Just Friends™ and you know it.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Is this the fanfiction thread? Great!*drops my Raogrimm x Sabrina fanfic*

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You can't say this and not post a link, coward! ;D

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

There's barely straight affection showing anywhere between characters outside of families and friends.
Besides failed romance (little sun as example) acting as joke material there's no "feelings" displayed or expressed above firm handshake levels.

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We also have that one funny moment in Bozja where Cid is so painfully oblivious we all kinda pretend it never happened to spare Mikoto the embarrassment. Just thought it was worth mentioning because I found it so funny.


We have the romance between those two Valentione NPCs, though! As in, it is confirmed they love each other. Nothing besides that lol

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

I've been questioning why there's no pregnancies or surprise babies in the game. Nation leaders like Nanamo and Hien should have heirs by now.

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*Vaguely gestures at the time bubble thing going on*

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Also they might've retconned [Haurchefant's] feelings as brotherly love if you're meant to believe what Artoirel said.

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As everyone is saying, Haurchefant is one of those characters that can be read one way or another. There's also the thing about NPCs having their own perspective on things. Artoriel might think Haurchefant saw us as a brother/sister, while another might be wondering when we would be handing out the wedding invitations if he never got Vaulted.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

Haurchefant sheltering us introducing us to his family an even betraying his own religion/society to side with us can be viewed as actions of love or admiration.

Aymeric invites us to his own home for dinner and fights alongside us in a couple of occasions and offers us a higher position within ishgard but is turned down ultimately as the player character is an adventurer thru an thru an not ready to retire from their adventures yet. but if anything you can view Aymeric's choices as platonic more so than romantic

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HW was cooking with their NPCs.

There...is nothing romantic about the Locker scene. It read to me like a textbook "Oh this guy is SUPER obsessed" situation with Demetrius "feelings" towards Calyx. The video scene before the locker with Demetrius shooting the woman to get rid of anyone going against "Master" Calyx was meant to show that the head guy around might have a bit of a..."greater affection" of sorts for Calyx, with the locker showing it's pretty much a full blown obsession with him, given he dedicated an entire locker to him in the first place.

If you looked at the locker scene and somehow came to the conclusion of "Man, why does Square really hate gay people?" with Demetrius "feelings" towards Calyx, then I'm sorry, but you're the weird one here jumping to an insane conclusion. In this specific instance: there is nothing romantic happening between the two, just one being super obsessed with the other.

Plus, during that specific time frame of the Storm Surge that we are shown, Calyx is still...well, a child...so, yeah...let's not.

Calyx remains a kid at heart, guy acts like a thirteen year old pipsqueak posturing for the invisible audience. Four hundred years probably passed by in a flash; real reason he didn't show up at the end of Dawntrail is he had grown used to a very sedate schedule.

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Is it just me or does someone on the writing team not like queer people? Doesn't happen very often since there aren't many LGBT NPCs in the MSQ, but it seems like any time they reveal a male character's definitely gay or bi it's to show how creepy he is. Japanese Haurchefant makes those weird comments to the WOL, most of the awful things we see Asahi do are to impress Zenos, and now there's that joke they added with Demetrius.

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There was nothing suggesting that kind of thing about Calyx and Demetrius. Demetrius was just obsessed and being obsessed doesn't always include romantic feelings.

Honestly loved that creepy locker because of how superfluous it seemed but also how much it developed Preservation in one fell swoop. Demetrius's total faith in Calyx, a literal child, and that kid's wild ideas is almost certainly why Preservation got so out of hand and deadly. Yes, put all your hopes on the terminally ill scientist without a fully developed frontal lobe. Excellent work, Mister Demetrius. Magnificent decision making.

But also, how desperate were Alexandrians to turn to such insane methods and again, a child, to resolve their problems? People must've been dropping like flies in a snow storm to go so far.


It's stuff like that that made 7.3 feel like a massive improvement to me. Environmental storytelling is back!