Concerns About Political Neutrality in the Development Team.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Are you one of those people who think that empathy and kindness are "political activism" that's being forced on you? Skill issue.

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What you consider 'empathy' and 'kindness' might not be seen the same way by everyone.

For the sake of representing all takes, mine is that I honestly don't give a @$%# how extreme the political stance is of the dev team, as long as I don't have to encounter it playing the game in a way that breaks the fourth wall by being out of context to the games geopolitics or that in any other way spoils immersion, or on a genuinely official game channel. Same goes for creators, except they are welcome in that I'm not paying, and I just switch off if I have even the slightest of inclinations. (I'd better not be seeing furry rights for pre-scooler's coming to 8.0 as the backdrop for why the Ascians have been driven to stick around...)

I do think however, that it is worth being sensitive to the particular damage that virtue signalling does to games, and also to individuals temperaments. The best work often comes from those who love and 'enjoy' their job. This is not the same thing as being 'passionate' about stuff that has nothing to do with your job, and bringing that into the office. For example, is someone a 'fun' person, and do they bring that to their art? Or are they a miserable, miserly, cantankerous so and so, who is more than a little stuffy and up themselves, and is unable to bring a sense of the full gamut of emotions in reasonable balance, including "letting their hair down" into the art they produce.

Except it was outside of work, you're talking about social media posts.
Or do you just not like people with views you don't like being involved in your game?

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

Except it was outside of work, you're talking about social media posts.
Or do you just not like people with views you don't like being involved in your game?

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I’m not trying to restrict anyone’s free speech. I’m just sharing my view that certain opinions, especially from someone in an official role, might be better kept private to maintain a welcoming community

I understand it's upsetting, I don't agree with her views either.
At the same time, i'll leave square's PR to them. We are deep in, while new players aren't exactly being introduced to the game from a translator's bluesky retweets.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

certain opinions

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still aggressively refusing to say what he means with his full chest lol
reminder, the opinion that prompted this was "white nationalism is bad."

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

Except it was outside of work, you're talking about social media posts.
Or do you just not like people with views you don't like being involved in your game?

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You you really want me to have said something I haven't. I've already answered your question. I don't care. So lets try plane speak for those that can't abstract.
Kate is really welcome to say whatever she wants on bluesky as far as I'm concerned.
That's not to say if other people are upset that doesn't matter more, I actually think it might do, which is the OPs point really.
She is welcome to say she works for SE in the same sentence as far as I'm concerned. Justas long as she doesn't do it on a official FF channel I might be subscribed to for FF news.

Well before I knew a Kate was a thing, I thought the localisation had lost a lot of its charm. Now that may have nothing to do with Kate's translation, she may have no power over what talent, or lack of, is hired in to support her.

There, you don't need to re-read my post.

Or maybe you were talking to OP. In which case, try to ignore me.
In fact ignore me anyway. The less this subject matters the better.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I think you may be misunderstanding me. I don’t have an issue with people existing or being different — that’s not what I’m saying. My concern is about how very public political activism from staff can create division in the community and make players question the neutrality of the game. That’s a very different issue.

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The only division I see is from chronically online people getting upset about an employee having a personal social media account and saying something they interpreted as a personal attack, when it was a call to vote out fascists.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I believe it is very important that the development team behind FFXIV remains politically neutral. While everyone is entitled to their personal opinions outside of work, I feel that employees who are outspoken political activists can cause unnecessary tension within the community and raise doubts about whether personal agendas might influence the game’s story or presentation.

FFXIV has always been a place where people from all kinds of backgrounds can come together and enjoy the game without real-world politics being pushed onto them. I hope Square Enix continues to prioritize hiring and promoting staff who can separate personal activism from professional responsibilities, so the game can remain a welcoming environment for all players.

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I believe freedom of speech.. and if that speech bothers SE, they are within their rights to let go of that employee.
If Kate retweeting someone raising awareness about fascism and christian nationalism bothers you, that's self-report.

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Originally Posted by velkettin

still aggressively refusing to say what he means with his full chest lol
reminder, the opinion that prompted this was "white nationalism is bad."

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This is not correct. Im actually talking about the post that wants to purge other political views. I do not defend "white nationalism". So you can stop trying to put me in that box.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

I believe freedom of speech.. and if that speech bothers SE, they are within their rights to let go of that employee.
If Kate retweeting someone raising awareness about fascism and christian nationalism bothers you, that's self-report.

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Thats post you are talking about is in my mind saying that conservative people are all bad people. I do not agree with this. Im not Christian. Im gay. I dont agree with fascism and white nationalism.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

This is not correct. Im actually talking about the post that wants to purge other political views. I do not defend "white nationalism". So you can stop trying to put me in that box.

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The post was not about purging "other political views" from public office. It explicitly said confederates. Who historically, and if I remember one thing about American history it's this, preferred white people a lot more than PoC.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

This is not correct. Im actually talking about the post that wants to purge other political views. I do not defend "white nationalism". So you can stop trying to put me in that box.

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what's wrong with purging fascism?

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

Thats post you are talking about is in my mind saying that conservative people are all bad people. I do not agree with this. Im not Christian. Im gay. I dont agree with fascism and white nationalism.

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so you shouldn't feel offended then, given the retweet was specifically regarding fascism and christian nationalism. And even if you did identify with either, it's not illegal to offend someone... Sure SE could fire someone because they don't "reflect" their values or whatever (corpo virtue signaling is meaningless), but they aren't obligated to throw employees under the bus because x people who play the game don't like the idea of someone being employed by SE that isn't a fan of fascism & christian nationalism.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

what's wrong with purging fascism?

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I dont agree that the post was about purging fascism. My take is that it is about purging views that are not on the left side. We dont agree here and thats ok.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

so you shouldn't feel offended then, given the retweet was specifically regarding fascism and christian nationalism. And even if you did identify with either, it's not illegal to offend someone... Sure SE could fire someone because they don't "reflect" their values or whatever (corpo virtue signaling is meaningless), but they aren't obligated to throw employees under the bus because x people who play the game don't like the idea of someone being employed by SE that isn't a fan of fascism & christian nationalism.

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It was against conservative people in my mind. And that is not very inclusive. In my opinion official should not say this Public. Your opinion is ok. I dont agree. I can understand how you think. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I dont agree that the post was about purging fascism. My take is that it is about purging views that are not on the left side. We dont agree here and thats ok.

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It's not illegal to purge political views that enable systems you disagree with. South Africa purged apartheid. The U.S purged slavery (a system the confederacy wanted to keep for obvious reasons). It's actually not that deep. You either believe in human rights or you don't. I'm unaware of any fascists or christian nationalists that advocate for human rights, irrespective of their identity. There are conservatives who agree with me by the way. They're going to their local town halls to echo the same concerns. Conflating all conservatives with fascists might be saying the quite part out loud.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

This is not correct. Im actually talking about the post that wants to purge other political views. I do not defend "white nationalism". So you can stop trying to put me in that box.

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"other political views." the only political view referenced in that post was white nationalism, given the reference to the confederacy. i've seen confederate flags proudly displayed in my own decidedly non-southern locale, these people are not some hypothetical and if any other conservative feels targeted that says more about them than anything else.

if you really dislike white nationalism shouldn't you want to purge it from any political spheres, your own or otherwise, instead of complaining about people who see the threat it poses?

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

Thats post you are talking about is in my mind saying that conservative people are all bad people. I do not agree with this. Im not Christian. Im gay. I dont agree with fascism and white nationalism.

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the actions and dispositions of individual conservatives are irrelevant to the material harm the conservative movement as a political entity causes to either our community or anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

The post was not about purging "other political views" from public office. It explicitly said confederates. Who historically, and if I remember one thing about American history it's this, preferred white people a lot more than PoC.

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I think the way this post talks about 'Confederates' is more about smearing and exaggerating conservative opponents than accurately addressing historical context. It seems designed to make certain groups look extreme rather than fostering understanding or nuance.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I think the way this post talks about 'Confederates' is more about smearing and exaggerating conservative opponents than accurately addressing historical context. It seems designed to make certain groups look extreme rather than fostering understanding or nuance.

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fascism and christian nationalism is extreme.. and it's not illegal to raise awareness about either. whether you agree with that or not is besides the point. Democracies actually require civic engagement.. it's not a spectator sport where you just sit on the sidelines and virtue signal. Employees aren't obligated to self censor. SE could fire them if they choose to. I'm sure the employee in question is aware of that possibility. "She retweeted something that offends me.. so fire her" epitomizes the very "cancel culture" the right supposedly despises.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I think the way this post talks about 'Confederates' is more about smearing and exaggerating conservative opponents than accurately addressing historical context. It seems designed to make certain groups look extreme rather than fostering understanding or nuance.

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Your thinking is unsubstantiated.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I think the way this post talks about 'Confederates' is more about smearing and exaggerating conservative opponents than accurately addressing historical context. It seems designed to make certain groups look extreme rather than fostering understanding or nuance.

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it's not smearing, or exaggerating when it is true.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I actually do want the community to be welcoming to everyone. My point is that staff should stay neutral on real-world politics so that no one feels excluded. I’m not saying anyone should be left out—just that political activism can unintentionally make some people feel unwelcome.

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Wrong. Staff are allowed to have their own feelings on their own time. she was posting from her private account. (im assuming this is about Kate)
"so no one feels excluded" sounds a lot like "don't rock the boat, so white nationalists dont get their feefees hurt". i can happily say i don't care at all about the feeling of someone who hates me simply for existing.

It's a video game I'm rather not interested in hearing anything politics in a game I play to escape the cares of real life
that said I don't want to hear pro gov or anti gov sentiment from authorities that create the game because in the end this is a video game
it is not going make me have some epiphany that makes me accept or reject the political messaging it is not going to change my world views.

that said any employee of square that rocks the boat pro gov or anti gov needs to be out just like the idiot modders that advertised that they were breaking tos
have some self control do it away from where you make your money.

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Originally Posted by Zoreth

I think the way this post talks about 'Confederates' is more about smearing and exaggerating conservative opponents than accurately addressing historical context. It seems designed to make certain groups look extreme rather than fostering understanding or nuance.

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lmao no there are still Confederates in the US still and they don't bother hiding, they hang the Confederate flag in front of their houses and put stickers their trucks, they demand Confederate statues stay up in cities and cry if you threaten to remove them, and they scream "muh heritage!" if you call them out on it.

Confederates were traitors to America - they started a civil war! that is by definition treason! - and it's only reasonable to call for self declared modern Confederates to be purged from the US government.

(There are conservatives out there who are not Confederates! And they also explicitly denounce the ideology. I'm related to some of them. I support them in trying to wrest back their political party from the Confederates who have taken it over.)

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

It's a video game I'm rather not interested in hearing anything politics in a game I play to escape the cares of real life
that said I don't want to hear pro gov or anti gov sentiment from authorities that create the game because in the end this is a video game
it is not going make me have some epiphany that makes me accept or reject the political messaging it is not going to change my world views.

that said any employee of square that rocks the boat pro gov or anti gov needs to be out just like the idiot modders that advertised that they were breaking tos
have some self control do it away from where you make your money.

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so everything should be safe, sterile corporate slop because you personally can't be assed to think about the themes of something?

Maybe players should stop getting into parasocial relationships with company employees? They're allowed to have lives and thoughts and opinions when they're not on the clock.

A Realm Reborn: Unity of Nations. Unite for the benefit of all beyond regional conflict.
Heavensward: Unity of classes. No more of those privileged at the top taking advantage of those that were born in less fortunate conditions, liberating the nation from religious zealots who'd rather see the poor die for the sake of their holy scripture.
Stormblood: Liberation from colonialism and conquerors, uniting peoples of different backgrounds and religions under governments that promote kindness and providing for those in need.
Shadowbringers: Unity in the face of disaster. The world can be brought back from the brink through unity.
Endwalker: Conquer despair through the literal power of friendship and love.
Zero Story: Throwing away prejudice and learning to trust each other.

OP, do you not know what game you're playing???? What kind of values do you think these devs have ALWAYS had?

For Dawntrail, they went for super sanitized/unoffending story telling, and you want more of that??

Nothing like the FFXIV General Discussion forums when you need a reminder that media literacy is functionally dead these days.

I'll just go back to my totally apolitical game about imperialism, subjugation, use of religion to control a populace, class struggles, xenophobia impeding responses to global crises, monarchistic nepotism, etc. Yup, my totally apolitical game, with zero parallels to the real world...

i swear conservatives and both-siders are some of the most unserious people ever.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Yeah, they really tipped their hand with that post, lol.

"It's the people preaching inclusion and empathy who are the REAL bigots, not the people who worship the Confederacy and Nazi!"

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who preaches inclusion and empathy for fascists and christian nationalists?

also why wouldn't apologists for the confederacy and nazi's also not be the "REAL bigots" ?

Their ideology by definition, is bigoted

Being nice to immigrants and wanting to care for our planet is not political. It's basic human kindness that everyone should have

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Originally Posted by Yuella

Being nice to immigrants and wanting to care for our planet is not political. It's basic human kindness that everyone should have

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Look to the sky and ask it for me. I wanna know what the universe thinks about it.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

Being nice to immigrants and wanting to care for our planet is not political. It's basic human kindness that everyone should have

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In the same vein, FFXIV stories are not compelling because they signal who to vote for in modern American elections. They're compelling because they are ethical and ideological conflicts common to many cultures and time periods. They're compelling because they're human.