Yoshi P admits they're reducing the amount of content even more

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Chaotic better stay in its hole. It's a really bad experience they tried and failed to execute considering it's super niche.

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It wasn't though. JP clear rates were nearing 50% if I recall. Even NA had reasonable results. The only issue Chaotic had was having a strict body check mechanic in a 48 man raid. Reduce the amount required for towers and Chaotic would have been widely successful. Reward structure still needs work though as the content has all but completely died post 7.1.

Considering they are so vocal about wanting a lot of feedback on the Pilgrim's Traverse, makes me think that the way that SE is doing difficult content is shifting hard into this direction.
Maybe instead of normal and savage, we are just getting a variable 8 man raid where you can lower the difficulty to make it feel more like normal mode or increase it, to make it more like a savage fight.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

you want to make thing easier over all? just upgrade all field exploration to the cap level. same goes for variant but variant you could have option to increase the level.


honestly like you upgrade Bozja and zadnor to LV 100 and the content will burst back to life same with eureka.

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I’m not sure what you mean. Just scale it to level 100 for max level characters? Eureka is popular because of it’s unique playstyle, the fact that it’s the only way to get dyeable versions of level 70 AF gear (and I much prefer the current role quest unlock for that!), and the relics. Bozja is popular due to its better rework of the actions, slightly spicier than average dungeons like CLL/Dalriada/DRN, relics, duels and the ability to level your jobs there. I don’t know that upgrading them to 100 would do much for the repeatability of the content because different people like them both for different reasons.

But more to the point, Eureka and Bozja already had internal, “manual” difficulty scaling: things in those zones got easier to handle as you progressed through elemental levels/mettle increases, collected the zone gear and the zone actions. Occult Crescent fails spectacularly at this, because it’s one dungeon requires specific jobs (the replacement for actions) to be present at minimum as opposed to certain jobs/actions providing an advantage, and the best gear you can get in the zone plus mastery of all the jobs doesn’t do anything to mitigate the 3-rez limit or the 20-some places where one mistake can wipe the raid. For comparison, Eureka’s BA only had one wipe mechanic like that, and I still know a lot of people, myself included, who haven’t completed it yet due to having to schedule it.

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Originally Posted by Grimr

If less content better everything else that's fine but we don't need a variant dungeon, deep dungeon, exploration mission and crafting location every expansion. The exploratory mission the way it is set up if a forked tower run is going on it screws over the rest of the island because of those nasty ce's you put in with higher difficulty. I don't want to see the second iteration if it is just more of the same. I have no idea about how the variant and deep dungeons will turn out, but if its anything like the rest of the expansion i will not bother. I honestly wish you would stop deving dawntrail and start devng 8.0.

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^^This they could've just expanded and continued the original diadem, added new zones and added a new system every now and again. That way you've constantly got old and new players in the area. Which would've been less work for them...Same with relics why isn't the previous weapon the base for the next expansion

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

It wasn't though. JP clear rates were nearing 50% if I recall. Even NA had reasonable results. The only issue Chaotic had was having a strict body check mechanic in a 48 man raid. Reduce the amount required for towers and Chaotic would have been widely successful. Reward structure still needs work though as the content has all but completely died post 7.1.

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I think the rewards are actually fine, but yes the body checks could be reduced so that they be or two people being out of place didn’t make you have to start all over. Body checks with that many people is just insanity.

I actually thought Chaotic was really fun mechanically, other than that. But that one issue had the effect of making that the most toxic duty I’ve ever experienced in PF, and turned it into something I endured until I got all the rewards and then never touched again. And I bought a couple of the tradeable items just to end my suffering faster! lol

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

I think the rewards are actually fine, but yes the body checks could be reduced so that they be or two people being out of place didn’t make you have to start all over. Body checks with that many people is just insanity.

I actually thought Chaotic was really fun mechanically, other than that. But that one issue had the effect of making that the most toxic duty I’ve ever experienced in PF, and turned it into something I endured until I got all the rewards and then never touched again. And I bought a couple of the tradeable items just to end my suffering faster! lol

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IMO it's a waste of resources to develop High End raids for that amount of people... It's bound to a logistical failure.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

^^This they could've just expanded and continued the original diadem, added new zones and added a new system every now and again. That way you've constantly got old and new players in the area. Which would've been less work for them...Same with relics why isn't the previous weapon the base for the next expansion

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I’m torn on that, because I would’ve loved a Diadem-esque gathering grind for Cosmic instead of the levequests they did instead. On the other hand, are people really going to want to go back to the same place over and over again? How do you make it new and interesting just by adding new zones to what is essentially the same area? At least the way they do it now, we get different themes and areas to explore. And that’s probably a selling point when they’re considering expansion features. I do wish that Cosmic Exploration had a little more exploration to it though! lol

I saw another person somewhere suggest that they could’ve combined Occult Crescent battle content with crafter/gatherer content by having both in the same zone with story tie-ins (ie: the crafters/gatherers are helping to support the expedition) and that sounded intriguing, using the same zone for both groups. Sounds almost like old, old Diadem, although I only got to see that once before they reworked it. But I think combos like that could work out if they make the zone story strong enough.

In what weird world did they think that people playing a fantasy game would be interested in space exploration.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

In what weird world did they think that people playing a fantasy game would be interested in space exploration.

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I am. I actually wanted 7.0 to have us travel to another world to start anew (with a huge amount of copium).

The idea that fantasy automatically means knights and dragons is so reductive to me...

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Originally Posted by Valence

I am. I actually wanted 7.0 to have us travel to another world to start anew (with a huge amount of copium).

The idea that fantasy automatically means knights and dragons is so reductive to me...

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Ever heard of PSO2?

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Originally Posted by Valence

I am. I actually wanted 7.0 to have us travel to another world to start anew (with a huge amount of copium).

The idea that fantasy automatically means knights and dragons is so reductive to me...

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Don't get me wrong, themefitting "go to another world" and discover it, but straight up rip offs from Star Trek, spaceships and mechs from gundam and more? No thanks.

Yeah, yeah. Yoshida also said that the cash shop would never impact the game back in HW, lol.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Don't get me wrong, themefitting "go to another world" and discover it, but straight up rip offs from Star Trek, spaceships and mechs from gundam and more? No thanks.

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Tell me you’ve never played FF4, FF6, FF8, FF9 among others without directly saying it.

By all objective measures, we're getting less content now than we did during the ARR and Heavensward eras. And yeah, that kinda effin sucks.

It wouldn't bother me so much if more of it were meaningful content and lasting content. But most 14 content has the life span of a kitchen match.

CBU3 really should worry less about the constituents that stay on a multi-year hiatus, only come back for expansions to play for a month, and bounce again for 2~3 years (all those people need is MSQ, that's it, that's all they're really here for anyway); and, start doing more and catering more to the long term playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Kaidence

Tell me you’ve never played FF4, FF6, FF8, FF9 among others without directly saying it.

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I think this forum had this debate before. There's a clear difference between "does scifi fit" and "is the scifi inserted believable with what we have worldbuilded before and does it come out of nowhere"

14 has very flimsy pathways to insert whatever the heck they want. "Oh we built this spaceship that can TRAVEL TO THE EDGE OF THE KNOWN UNIVERSE with Allagan tech, because we are the smart nation. This tech that nobody, even the garleans who specifically work on reverse-engineering never even got close, but we just offscreen built it teeheee." They just add things on a whim.

Please.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

In what weird world did they think that people playing a fantasy game would be interested in space exploration.

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I'd be interested in it if there was an actual goal or reason beyond loporrits being goofballs and it wasn't already established that Meteion sang the rest of the universe to death.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

"Oh we built this spaceship that can TRAVEL TO THE EDGE OF THE KNOWN UNIVERSE with Allagan tech, because we are the smart nation. This tech that nobody, even the garleans who specifically work on reverse-engineering never even got close, but we just offscreen built it teeheee." They just add things on a whim.

Please.

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Have you heard of the heart of sabik? Apparently it has power laid dormant for eons and even the vaunted scholars of Allag failed to scratch.

If you dislike gundams, you must surely dislike all the various Weapons.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I'd be interested in it if there was an actual goal or reason beyond loporrits being goofballs and it wasn't already established that Meteion sang the rest of the universe to death.

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Because "Venat is whimsical like that and the passengers on their doomsday ship would feel more at ease because they are goofballs" I believe is the explanation. And they are an insert from another FF, and if the writers run out of creative use there is someone in the world who can still use creation magic. THat being the loporrits. Instant solution.

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Originally Posted by Kaidence

Have you heard of the heart of sabik? Apparently it has power laid dormant for eons and even the vaunted scholars of Allag failed to scratch.

If you dislike gundams, you must surely dislike all the various Weapons.

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Makes more sense than the spaceship to be honest.
I don't hate everything tech, I hate tech that doesn't make sense in the worldbuilding that we have gotten so far, the weapons are a callout to former final fantasies. Not a Star Trek or Gundam rip off, much like the latest Arcadion boss. "Wolf" oversoul or whatever is called turns into the actual "wolf gundam" wolf king rex or whatever it was called. But honestly, I didn't care for it, let the devs have their fun, electrope is another of those "Just works" kind of deals that I don't much care for. Much like dynamis is their crutch for "Oh wuk lamat defeated foes she couldnt before and some extra on top, not because she trained, but because she believed more something something emotions".

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Because "Venat is whimsical like that and the passengers on their doomsday ship would feel more at ease because they are goofballs" I believe is the explanation. And they are an insert from another FF, and if the writers run out of creative use there is someone in the world who can still use creation magic. THat being the loporrits. Instant solution.

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That is absolutely the reason the Lopporits are cute. And considering the society she came feol apart quite literally from not having the ability to handle stress and fear, her designing the creatures meant to carry people away and care for them in the meantime be tiny and adorable is actually a smart move.

And genuinely the sudden sci-fi turn for now doesn't shock me because plenty of FF titles are sci-fi. EW had a bunch based on FFIV, but it's not the only one.

FFVII's big bad is an invading alien.

FFVIII has a region you enter late on the game that feels centuries more advanced and also has working space travel.

FFXIII's plot revolves around a long running war between the people on their moon and the main planet.

Lopporits are one of the very best races in FFXIV. I absolutely love them! ❤️

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

That is absolutely the reason the Lopporits are cute. And considering the society she came feol apart quite literally from not having the ability to handle stress and fear, her designing the creatures meant to carry people away and care for them in the meantime be tiny and adorable is actually a smart move.

And genuinely the sudden sci-fi turn for now doesn't shock me because plenty of FF titles are sci-fi. EW had a bunch based on FFIV, but it's not the only one.

FFVII's big bad is an invading alien.

FFVIII has a region you enter late on the game that feels centuries more advanced and also has working space travel.

FFXIII's plot revolves around a long running war between the people on their moon and the main planet.

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FFVII already had a industrial vibe to it
FFVIII had a modern vibe to it with tech all over, cars etc
I have no idea about FFXIII because I never played it

Scifi is not the point, it's the implementation to the already existing world. A lot of FFXIV seems forced because of the themepark mentality and the writers just WANTING to insert stuff forcefully in to make the plot work around it.
We have barely even explored the whole map of Hydaelyn and we are going to space? Just no. Not even the other shards first?

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Don't get me wrong, themefitting "go to another world" and discover it, but straight up rip offs from Star Trek, spaceships and mechs from gundam and more? No thanks.

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I do agree that the creative direction has been extra lazy on that front, because all they can think of is themeparking everything.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Ever heard of PSO2?

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Yes?

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

I have no idea about FFXIII because I never played it

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XIII's level of sci-fi is closest to something like Transformers. It's hard to come up with a better point of comparison.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

FFVII already had a industrial vibe to it
FFVIII had a modern vibe to it with tech all over, cars etc
I have no idea about FFXIII because I never played it

Scifi is not the point, it's the implementation to the already existing world. A lot of FFXIV seems forced because of the themepark mentality and the writers just WANTING to insert stuff forcefully in to make the plot work around it.
We have barely even explored the whole map of Hydaelyn and we are going to space? Just no. Not even the other shards first?

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I disagree, not just because of the examples, but also because FFXIV established from the get-go that different regions and different eras of this world had WILDLY different levels of advancement.

Also I just think of the quirk of humanity knowing as much about space as we do our own oceans because of the space race had the best minds of the world scrambling to figure out how to safely get humans out of our atmosphere and onto the moon.

I guess I just don't feel as weirded out by how it happened because I enjoyed the EW ride, and we're dealing with the remnants of a group (Preservation) that figured out dimensional travel in a similar state of panicked action.

Won't be too bad if the content is more replayable.

Would you rather have 10 things you do for 10 hours each, or 5 things you do for 30 hours each?

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

I disagree, not just because of the examples, but also because FFXIV established from the get-go that different regions and different eras of this world had WILDLY different levels of advancement.

Also I just think of the quirk of humanity knowing as much about space as we do our own oceans because of the space race had the best minds of the world scrambling to figure out how to safely get humans out of our atmosphere and onto the moon.

I guess I just don't feel as weirded out by how it happened because I enjoyed the EW ride, and we're dealing with the remnants of a group (Preservation) that figured out dimensional travel in a similar state of panicked action.

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There's a huge gulf between an unmanned satellite(from a dead advanced civilization, which is a standard trope) and a fully functional spaceship, especially when EW Etheirys(so no electrope to solve everything) was able to redesign and improve on Allag's Ragnarok-class ships and not just get one spaceworthy with crude stopgaps.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Scifi is not the point, it's the implementation to the already existing world. A lot of FFXIV seems forced because of the themepark mentality and the writers just WANTING to insert stuff forcefully in to make the plot work around it.

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Consider the fact that there have been a number of civilizations with sci-fi undertones over the span of the last 10,000 years. and the sci-fi aspect of the game no longer appears "forced".

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Originally Posted by Daralii

There's a huge gulf between an unmanned satellite(from a dead advanced civilization, which is a standard trope) and a fully functional spaceship, especially when EW Etheirys(so no electrope to solve everything) was able to redesign and improve on Allag's Ragnarok-class ships and not just get one spaceworthy with crude stopgaps.

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You guys forget that the Lopporits actually helped with designing the Ragnarok ship we used to get to Ultima Thule, and the moon being a spaceship was retro fitting the space prison for Zodiark.


But it's a moot thing to argue about. You don't like that plot point, I do. Let's just shake on it and move on. EW's divisive.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

FFVII already had a industrial vibe to it
FFVIII had a modern vibe to it with tech all over, cars etc
I have no idea about FFXIII because I never played it

Scifi is not the point, it's the implementation to the already existing world. A lot of FFXIV seems forced because of the themepark mentality and the writers just WANTING to insert stuff forcefully in to make the plot work around it.
We have barely even explored the whole map of Hydaelyn and we are going to space? Just no. Not even the other shards first?

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Well, I wouldn't be surprised to find any level of high tech elements in FF14 when even the 1.0 opening cinematic contains aerial combat with highly advanced aircrafts. Going from there to something even more advanced like Loporrits' tech is a much shorter step than going from medieval fantasy to that Garlean technology.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

I think this forum had this debate before. There's a clear difference between "does scifi fit" and "is the scifi inserted believable with what we have worldbuilded before and does it come out of nowhere"

14 has very flimsy pathways to insert whatever the heck they want. "Oh we built this spaceship that can TRAVEL TO THE EDGE OF THE KNOWN UNIVERSE with Allagan tech, because we are the smart nation. This tech that nobody, even the garleans who specifically work on reverse-engineering never even got close, but we just offscreen built it teeheee." They just add things on a whim.

Please.

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The original Final Fantasy had a floating tower from a mysterious civilization and time travel that all kind of happened right near the end. There are any number of groups in the games that are like the Sharlayans and usually they have a Cid leading them. It doesn't sound like you've played very many of the games, especially the earlier sprite games. Science fiction has always been part of the fabric of the series. The sort of thing you're complaining about happens all the time in the Final Fantasy series. It's one of the normal trends.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I feel like OP didn't read the article that he posted :I.

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Well, yeah, its a vaguely generic highlander with a throwaway username. Literally just Skiros/Titanmen, as we're all used to him cherrypicking things and making doomer threads.
Its his bread and butter for when he isn't purchasing another account to have a new alt just so he can troll more.

Whole it's true that FFXIV has historically featured plenty of sci fi elements, the technological leap between cultures in DT is intended to feel dissonant and out of place. That's the entire point around it. To say you don't like the feeling of dissonance so therefore it's bad writing is to misunderstand the function of stories as a whole.

I don't mind harder content but I don't want it to be super hard where a normal player cannot be bothered to learn anything and then you never clear it. Chaotic was clearable with many fails. Still you could clear it. While something like forked tower is impossible without discord. I honestly don't want harder content to become "discord only" and stuff. It's boring. I want something where we can all learn by watching a guide, not that I need to sign up for random server 300# and expect my turn to clear or have loot council.

Also my guess is that difficulty slider will most probably affect rewards that you get from the boss right? Where if you don't push it to the max, you won't get the best thing.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Also my guess is that difficulty slider will most probably affect rewards that you get from the boss right? Where if you don't push it to the max, you won't get the best thing.

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My hope is that they apply it to the currency drops, for instance, something like the new Variant. Lowest level difficulty still gets their own mount, highest level difficulty still gets their own mount, but the other rewards are for currency, you just get more by doing the harder version, so it’s a little more of a grind on easy mode. Keep the glam, emotes and that kinda stuff reasonable as they are now, but add in some more stuff at a higher price point to entice people into trying higher levels of difficulty. For example, I’d like the ability to get some of those framer’s kits that only Criterion/Savage had, if I have to do a lot more runs on a lower level of difficulty I’m fine with that. And make all the rewards market tradeable.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Well, yeah, its a vaguely generic highlander with a throwaway username. Literally just Skiros/Titanmen, as we're all used to him cherrypicking things and making doomer threads.
Its his bread and butter for when he isn't purchasing another account to have a new alt just so he can troll more.

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Probably the intended effect? A lot of people come to post here about the statement being true when it isn't, and then just continue their train of thought as if it is because even if it isn't true "it feels tru"e.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Chaotic better stay in its hole. It's a really bad experience they tried and failed to execute considering it's super niche.

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Speaking for yourself I take it. A good majority of us had a great time with it. Wasn't hard to just join a community of people to learn/clear/farm it out. Definitely offered a unique challenge. I hope they do more.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Well, yeah, its a vaguely generic highlander with a throwaway username. Literally just Skiros/Titanmen, as we're all used to him cherrypicking things and making doomer threads.
Its his bread and butter for when he isn't purchasing another account to have a new alt just so he can troll more.

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Dang, who hurt you? :/