Modders did it to themselves

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Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

What does this have to do with the game, FF14? I thought discussing 3rd party tools resulted in permanent bans? :p


Reminder: The game is still bad, but it's not too late to unsub. Join me and the hundreds of thousands of others who are leaving during the Dawntrail expansion. It's not too late to do the right thing

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Neat dude, see ya next patch

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Originally Posted by Akira

theres already a mare clone out that i will not speak the name of.

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You may not speak the name of it, but the same people who led it Mare getting banned sure will!

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Originally Posted by SyferU

I feel like many people don't really understand this isn't about SE being in the right.
There will be a new mare sooner or later, so taking it down has no other effect than getting more people mad at SE and Dawntrail, it's just a bad decision, doesn't change anything if it's against the TOS or not.

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Why was it a bad decision? What prompted the Cease and Desist Order? What would've happened if SE had not acted upon whatever it was that prompted them to take this action?

I don't know the answers either - FACT is we, the players, don't really know what prompted this action; player response to what has occurred is being fuelled by emotion, not facts. But I would suggest there is a high probability that SE was attempting to avoid litigation that would result from doing nothing. And unhappy players complaining, leaving, and/or posting review-bombs was probably a softer hit to take than legal expenses.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Why was it a bad decision? What prompted the Cease and Desist Order? What would've happened if SE had not acted upon whatever it was that prompted them to take this action?

I don't know the answers either - FACT is we, the players, don't really know what prompted this action; player response to what has occurred is being fuelled by emotion, not facts. But I would suggest there is a high probability that SE was attempting to avoid litigation that would result from doing nothing. And unhappy players complaining, leaving, and/or posting review-bombs was probably a softer hit to take than legal expenses.

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Well its objectively a bad decision because lets face it, XIV is not in the best of places right now.

Dawntrail was not received well, the player base has been bleeding players, new players aren't coming in at the rates they used to, likely googling dawntrail reviews and staying away.
We just had a financial report from SE saying their MMO devision's gross sales is down 2.9 billion yen, and while its true every expac dips in the middle like this, its the worst its ever really been seeing numbers dropping to ~4.0 levels.

Pissing off the Modbeasts and getting them to quit the game now is a questionable move because the player base is already down. Losing even more, even if we were to guess it be about 10% (though I'd estimate it to be closer to 20-30%) isn't exactly a good idea right now, especially when Yoshida gave us the now infamous line about not being able to afford making normal versions of Forked Tower.

Less players = Less Subs = Less Money. Thats why it was a bad decision. Square Enix was 100% within their rights to do this, but the timing is pretty bad, and it has the potential the hurt the game in the long run. Especially if we start to see more C&Ds targeted at third party tools/plugins.

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Originally Posted by celi85

I have played FFXIV since 2.0 and I've watched the entire situation regarding restricted tools develop and evolve over time. It used to be understood amongst anyone who played that you are best off not directly naming or discussing third party tools in-game but that has been lost in the past 5 years or so.

Yoshi P has hinted a million times on live letters when the topic is discussed, although he must explicitly say that any third party tools are forbidden, he also doesn't want to have to crack down on people who use them, so he asks to please just be responsible.

In the past two expansions, I have seen tool usage become increasingly bold. They must think the devs are four years old, they know your search info isn't talking about the moon zone. They know that {Allagan Melon} in your TOP PF isn't talking about the minion. You can't even look at Twitter without being subjected to dolled up IMVU modbeasts under both official and gpose related tags, makeup that would put a Kpop star to shame and grotesque tumors growing out of their funny bits which are covered in tattoos. Everyone has seen them, and obviously the devs can see them too. I mean really, how are we praising them for integrating features from said tools into the base game but pretending like they're easy to fool at the same time?

I can only hope that SE pursues other third party tools because there are much worse things than cosmetic mods on 'You-Know-What' and the average raider cannot tell their ass from their elbow without said tools. You pushed the envelope and kept pushing until it went too far and now you're upset there's consequences, boo hoo.

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It went beyond discussing that's the issue. it went to streaming to even to the point of players in world firsts using third party tools while streaming and getting caught by SE. Both sides are equally responsible. SE for only taking a finger waggling to the teams using in world first clears, of course its gives the illusion of free reign without consequence. Its the players fault for continuously talking about it.

I'm inclined to believe that it had less to do with the loud community (they were loud for years, why now) and more to do with how Mare was used to track players who grabbed the alternative syncing addon that had developed an epstien tier reputation at that point. Lists were made, with player names on them associated with the addon, and many people (including well known addon devs who probably worked with the Mare dude on some level) suspect it was nuked because of that. Square has had their nuts in a twist over privacy every since player scope embarrassed them for a straight year.

In the end it's all speculation, but some speculation has more basis in reality than others.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Well its objectively a bad decision because lets face it, XIV is not in the best of places right now.

Dawntrail was not received well, the player base has been bleeding players, new players aren't coming in at the rates they used to, likely googling dawntrail reviews and staying away.
We just had a financial report from SE saying their MMO devision's gross sales is down 2.9 billion yen, and while its true every expac dips in the middle like this, its the worst its ever really been seeing numbers dropping to ~4.0 levels.

Pissing off the Modbeasts and getting them to quit the game now is a questionable move because the player base is already down. Losing even more, even if we were to guess it be about 10% (though I'd estimate it to be closer to 20-30%) isn't exactly a good idea right now, especially when Yoshida gave us the now infamous line about not being able to afford making normal versions of Forked Tower.

Less players = Less Subs = Less Money. Thats why it was a bad decision. Square Enix was 100% within their rights to do this, but the timing is pretty bad, and it has the potential the hurt the game in the long run. Especially if we start to see more C&Ds targeted at third party tools/plugins.

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Again, we're not privy to the full facts. Which isn't to say your wrong... but, keeping in mind that some unknown factor prompted the CaD order, the timing of this is probably something that SE had no sway over.

And again, it could well be the case that the cost of losing a relatively small percentage of players isn't as impactful to the bottom line as the legal costs (from inaction) could have been.

You all mention about unsubbing But we all know you are going to be back on the next day getting your final fantasy 14 fix. Modders tanked this themselves, At the end of the day we can blame the game back and forward it's gone, you guys are now in the sunlight of ff14 After you all broke your "Don't talk about it rule" And look right here, Still talking about it. Again make the posts and it will be deleted S.E doesn't care. I'll see you all queuing dallies in ARR, you have a reason to finish the MSQ now. Happy to link a guide for Crystal tower raids in case you need it.


Here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrJW-1XWYDw

To all complaining.

We'll see you next patch.
Here's what you will need to know.

FFXIV ARR: Crystal Tower (Labyrinth of the Ancients) Strategy & Guide

Gee you two are so original. So funny. Ha ha ha

Good job being irresponsible.

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Originally Posted by SerephinaBlossom

You all mention about unsubbing But we all know you are going to be back on the next day getting your final fantasy 14 fix.

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You say that, but I'm already seeing several people who used to play FF14 casually be online on World of Warcraft now.

So even if it wasn't full shift, there was clearly some impact to push them elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

https://lore.capital/f/img/ffxiv/ENQ...2XVZct6DWQ.gif

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totally agree. with any luck, they'll leave of their own accord

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

You say that, but I'm already seeing several people who used to play FF14 casually be online on World of Warcraft now.

So even if it wasn't full shift, there was clearly some impact to push them elsewhere.

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I'm happy for them, I genuinely hope they find joy in it. No sarcasm here. It's not healthy to live in one virtual world permanently.

The more I think about it, though, the more I believe the reason Mare was targeted specifically was not only because of the player data storage in a third party system, but also because it granted full CRUD rights to the FFXIV data files, which is incredibly dangerous in the long run.

All it'd take is one clever asshole to put a virus inside a cool new Viera hairstyle, go around to all the night clubs, and get everyone to "sync" that hair to their system. But instead of just altering the .DAT file for the synced hair, it granted itself permissions to go a few folders up, and suddenly you've got a keylogger on your game's launcher.

That's a massive security risk, and SE has already struggled for decades with their MMO accounts getting keylogged from third party tools.

"but I have an OTP!" Doesn't stop em when they have an interceptor keylogger that grabs your OTP when you try to log in and then immediately crashes the launcher instead of sending it to SE.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

https://lore.capital/f/img/ffxiv/ENQ...2XVZct6DWQ.gif

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The irony considering the source material :o

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Originally Posted by Valence

The problem with that reasoning is that since everything is clearly laid out in the TOS yet nothing is done consistently in its application, from crackdowns on mods, cheats or even milder things like ingame harassment or toxicity, then we're left with people essentially left in the dark as to what are their true policies. Not that it excuses or justifies breaking the actual TOS, but what matters is the policies used in application which are what define the actual rules, not the written TOS, if both are worlds apart like they are.

Edit: also, just food for thought, the more you crack down on something illegal, the more underground you push it, and the more unsavory that something will become.

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It's absolutely consistent. The difference here is that this one was carelessly advertised all over the place by a large number of players. Their take has always been "Don't talk about it" nothing has changed. People were just stupid and talked about it non-stop on a scale they couldn't ignore. Cheats and harassment due to third party tools have consistently resulted in suspensions and bans.

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Originally Posted by Necrofang17

It's absolutely consistent. The difference here is that this one was carelessly advertised all over the place by a large number of players. Their take has always been "Don't talk about it" nothing has changed. People were just stupid and talked about it non-stop on a scale they couldn't ignore. Cheats and harassment due to third party tools have consistently resulted in suspensions and bans.

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Kind of... But what the ToS actually states, and how they enforce that ToS are different, which is a problem really, because it's only otherwise ever stated in the "Disappointed dad" conversation, and of course if we are assuming this was done because of ToS and not some larger security concern, then at what point them deem "Don't talk about it" is very arbitrary, seeing as people have been openly discussing it for years.

Not that I disagree with you, but when there is a disparity like the one presented here, then the rules do actually become very meaningless, since they are undermining their own rules, and doing it in such a way that actual enforcement is kind of arbitrary, again, allowing Mare to fester openly for years before electing to take an action.

I think some of you are under the illusion that by banning the degenerates SE is going to finally focus on delivering good traditional MMO content.

LOL

I don't know much about the RP Scene / Modder Scene, but even I know the golden rule has ALWAYS been "Don't talk about it." Yet...

People were constantly talking about Mare in shout chats.
People were literally putting Mare codes in their adventurer plates for all to see.
People were, allegedly, getting excluded from RP for not using Mare themselves.
People were, also allegedly, putting some things behind paywalls like Patreon.

I'm not gonna go and blame every single Mare user for this happening to em since it isn't really fair to do so given the amount that did know to keep things hush-hush, but if people are going to be mad about this then don't blame Square for taking action: Blame your fellow Mare users who willingly and blatantly flaunted this stuff around and practically screamed "Fuck the TOS!" with their actions while also constantly taunting the devs with "If you do anything to Mare then your subscriber numbers will plummet, so you cannot ever do anything to us!" was a fucking wonderful idea.

To me this entire Mare "Situation" literally just reads like a textbook "FAFO" moment to add to the record books.

They need to shut down the game and redo the game code from scratch to prevent all the cheaty tools! and that may take god knows how long!

I think it being perfect is impossible but, If modding were part of an official channel, it would be moderated. That means clear rules, limited access, and tools designed to prevent abuse and bring in revenue. Yes, there would still be underground mods, just like in every game, but they wouldn't be front and center. They'd be kept in the shadows, not shaping the public experience.

Plenty of other games have thriving modding communities with boundaries that are respected because the developers chose to engage instead of ignore. Saying it's "utopian" to expect structure and moderation is just dismissive. It's not about giving players total liberty, it's about giving them a safe, creative space with limits that actually work.

Square Enix could choose to support modding in a way that protects the game and its players. They just haven't. That’s the real issue.

While I really agree with the OP's post...

...all the other threads about the topic seem to have been deleted, so I dunno if opening another one and keeping this discussion going is such a good idea. :/

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Originally Posted by ratlicker54

I think it being perfect is impossible but, If modding were part of an official channel, it would be moderated. That means clear rules, limited access, and tools designed to prevent abuse and bring in revenue. Yes, there would still be underground mods, just like in every game, but they wouldn't be front and center. They'd be kept in the shadows, not shaping the public experience.

Plenty of other games have thriving modding communities with boundaries that are respected because the developers chose to engage instead of ignore. Saying it's "utopian" to expect structure and moderation is just dismissive. It's not about giving players total liberty, it's about giving them a safe, creative space with limits that actually work.

Square Enix could choose to support modding in a way that protects the game and its players. They just haven't. That’s the real issue.

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We don't know why Square Enix acted now, or even if it's them. We don't know the reason - if you have to ask me, I'm convinced that it has nothing to do with "going against mod beasts" or anything like that (more like security risk, about the personnal data shared or things like that).

But one thing is sure, is that CBU3 stance is that they want total control over the art of the game. Which is... understandable, not the only stance to have, yes, but understandable ? There is game where modding is allowed that don't have (or lost) any visual identity and became an absolute mess of chaos.
I mean not everyone is like that, but there are authors or directors that hate fanfiction or re-edits of their movie and its their right. The fact is that here, for an online game, there is TOS and legal way to prevent it to happen as much as possible.

I'm not one saying that "you should unsub" because I always found it stupid, but fact is, if you are looking for a game with developers open to the modding community, FFXIV isn't for you. They were quite lenient for years and will continue to be outside of Mare, but never will be open about it. Like you said, modding is allowed in the Japanese Law if the developers allowed it, but it's not for nothing if it became a law, it's not their culture, it's also why the Japanese side of the playerbase isn't nearly as revolted as the occidental one is.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

We don't know why Square Enix acted now, or even if it's them. We don't know the reason - if you have to ask me, I'm convinced that it has nothing to do with "going against mod beasts" or anything like that (more like security risk, about the personnal data shared or things like that).

But one thing is sure, is that CBU3 stance is that they want total control over the art of the game. Which is... understandable, not the only stance to have, yes, but understandable ? There is game where modding is allowed that don't have (or lost) any visual identity and became an absolute mess of chaos.
I mean not everyone is like that, but there are authors or directors that hate fanfiction or re-edits of their movie and its their right. The fact is that here, for an online game, there is TOS and legal way to prevent it to happen as much as possible.

I'm not one saying that "you should unsub" because I always found it stupid, but fact is, if you are looking for a game with developers open to the modding community, FFXIV isn't for you. They were quite lenient for years and will continue to be outside of Mare, but never will be open about it. Like you said, modding is allowed in the Japanese Law if the developers allowed it, but it's not for nothing if it became a law, it's not their culture, it's also why the Japanese side of the playerbase isn't nearly as revolted as the occidental one is.

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Now this isn't exactly hard proof to be fair, but....

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a8760a6313a94&

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Now this isn't exactly hard proof to be fair, but....

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a8760a6313a94&

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It's also entirely possible. He don't say it's Square Enix so it's protecting him from potential action from them against him and he could have made enough money to be okay until his old age and chose to escape before going to far and being targeted.

But it's like speculating on who made the C&D or why if it's Square Enix : just blow hot air.

A new one will be up at some point or other and then the players can get back to the nightclubs and DJ parties.
No one in FFXIV is happy, but the way Mare was being used (and what was being injected into Mare specifically) had me hoping it would be policed or taken to task at some point.
Taken down? Bold move. Waiting until 8.0, as the good ol' CEO said to the shareholders.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Kind of... But what the ToS actually states, and how they enforce that ToS are different, which is a problem really, because it's only otherwise ever stated in the "Disappointed dad" conversation, and of course if we are assuming this was done because of ToS and not some larger security concern, then at what point them deem "Don't talk about it" is very arbitrary, seeing as people have been openly discussing it for years.

Not that I disagree with you, but when there is a disparity like the one presented here, then the rules do actually become very meaningless, since they are undermining their own rules, and doing it in such a way that actual enforcement is kind of arbitrary, again, allowing Mare to fester openly for years before electing to take an action.

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There really isn't a disparity. Everything that gets talked about in-game has potential for repercussion if reported. Mare is the only thing that has gone this rampant, so you can't compare it to anything else. You could say parsing since it's been around so long and so many people have it, but you don't see thousands of adventurer plates linking their fflogs account, do you? There is no disparity. Don't talk about it in-game, it's that simple. In-game chat logs, streams, and the never ending modded twitter screenshots are the only way to verify someone breaking ToS about third party tools. The way they enforce it is also consistent.

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Originally Posted by Necrofang17

There really isn't a disparity. Everything that gets talked about in-game has potential for repercussion if reported. Mare is the only thing that has gone this rampant, so you can't compare it to anything else. You could say parsing since it's been around so long and so many people have it, but you don't see thousands of adventurer plates linking their fflogs account, do you? There is no disparity. Don't talk about it in-game, it's that simple. In-game chat logs, streams, and the never ending modded twitter screenshots are the only way to verify someone breaking ToS about third party tools. The way they enforce it is also consistent.

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Eh, there really is.. I mean you can say the ToS effectively operates on a 'don't tell' rule, but when your approach is so hands off, then you only really permit for it to go in one direction and that isn't good.. Especially from a developer perspective, since you are allowing people to run rampant with the nonsense that they do, as long as they 'don't speak' about it, with no real moderation beyond that point. It's the entire reason why we had things go as far out of hand as to unironically have a plugin with the express purpose of stalking.

As for comparing it to Parsing, they may not be linked in an adventurer plate, but they are certainly doing it via Lodestone, and then people aren't exactly being subtle with 'Allagan Melon' either.

and to be honest, they've arguably gone at it with legal concerns of the plugin itself, versus actually enforcing the ToS itself (e.g., it have read/write access to data files, and inheriting some of the features from the also C&D'd stalker plugin). If enforcing the ToS were their concern then you would have seen a lot of people with an action on their account in addition to action taken on the plugin itself.

So, now that I think about it (After seeing a post on another thread), even in this case their concern was probably less about ensuring people adhere to Terms of Service, and more about a wider concern they have, so really, from a ToS perspective they've actually done very little versus take the big toy away. In time someone else will make new big toy, and then it's just back to business as usual.

The real problem is that SE did not care about FFXIV for 3 years, making it not a priority. They let too many thing pass for years, and now that they finally realise XIV was in a bad place, they began to do what they should have done 3 years ago. They never have let Mare become as big as it was, but like the player complaints, they just waited until thing got too big to ignore. Sure, Mare use obnoxiousness didn't help, but the blame also lie with SE that basically ignored their cash cow for years.

In my opinion what has fostered this 'To and from' between the mod and none mod communities is Yoshi and CBU itself.

I've consistently played on PlayStation - I can't mod without bricking my PlayStation. Did I care that other people used mods on PC? No.

The constant tongue in cheek by YoshiP in live letters resulting in "Don't ask don't tell" is wild.

In my eyes it was placed in thr ToS because other users apart from PC would be at a disadvantage when playing content E.G Can I RP without seeing "Mare?" No I can't therefore I am gate kept. Same for individuals who choose not to play with mods.

In my eyes, watching it over the years.. this should have been cracked down on sooner.. we are over a decade into the game and the ToS has not changed.

People can interperate Yoshis stance on mods all they want but unless CBU3, SE and Yoshi crack down and reinforce their ToS ppl will do what they like and this has been proven with this mod.

Shame this has caused such an upset in the community but I can see both sides and it ultimately comes down to Yoshi and his teams mismanagement of the ToS.

This has now come back to bite him in the arse.

Wish I could be empathetic but I really can't.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

And to be honest, it could even be the best move for SE to strike now that the mood of the FFXIV players is at its worst since... probably a very long time and counting on a 8.0 to try to recapture the love of the players.

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Recapture the love of what players though if too many of have left by then and have recommended against others to play it? Something like this isn't going to stop the hemorrhaging Dawntrail started, it's only going to make it worse, and it's certainly not going to give Square-Enix a mulligan if they botch 8.0.
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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Kind of... But what the ToS actually states, and how they enforce that ToS are different, which is a problem really, because it's only otherwise ever stated in the "Disappointed dad" conversation, and of course if we are assuming this was done because of ToS and not some larger security concern, then at what point them deem "Don't talk about it" is very arbitrary, seeing as people have been openly discussing it for years.

Not that I disagree with you, but when there is a disparity like the one presented here, then the rules do actually become very meaningless, since they are undermining their own rules, and doing it in such a way that actual enforcement is kind of arbitrary, again, allowing Mare to fester openly for years before electing to take an action.

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To say nothing of the OTHER openly well-known mods that Square-Enix somehow still isn't going after, once more raising the issue of inconsistency.

If I had to make a top 5 list of "open secret" mods, Mare would be THIRD.
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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

As for comparing it to Parsing, they may not be linked in an adventurer plate, but they are certainly doing it via Lodestone, and then people aren't exactly being subtle with 'Allagan Melon' either.

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I'd say the parsing thing was way worse because I don't recall having to copy & paste a phrase into my profile for Mare so my Lodestone WOULDN'T get its data scrapped like I had to do with "fflogs-hidden" and "tomestone-hidden".

That's arguably more intrusive/prompts harassment from others, yet there's some in this topic who think ACT is totes harmless while Mare was Satan-incarnate.
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Originally Posted by bic12

I think some of you are under the illusion that by banning the degenerates SE is going to finally focus on delivering good traditional MMO content.

LOL

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Well, you have to remember that some of these same people also legitimately believe that the game will return to a "golden age" and make more money if all the casuals get cast out too, so the delulu is strong.

When a developer turns a blind eye too something they don not approve of. That is a signal too the player, too go silent and vanish like a Ninja. Not beat their chest loudly and screaming look at this like the dev will do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Recapture the love of what players though if too many of have left by then and have recommended against others to play it? Something like this isn't going to stop the hemorrhaging Dawntrail started, it's only going to make it worse, and it's certainly not going to give Square-Enix a mulligan if they botch 8.0.

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I think you didn't understand what I meant (or I didn't express myself correctly, English isn't my first language).

I never said that it was going to stop the loss of players. I said that now the game is at its worst since before Shadowbringer, it's the perfect time to do the unpopular things. The loss of Mare isn't going to kill FFXIV but create drama for sure. If we take the hypothesis that it's Square Enix that chose to act against Mare, doing it now is a better idea that waiting the 8.0 and risking a bad buzz during a possibly "good" momentum for FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

To say nothing of the OTHER openly well-known mods that Square-Enix somehow still isn't going after, once more raising the issue of inconsistency.

If I had to make a top 5 list of "open secret" mods, Mare would be THIRD.

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We still don't know, at my knowledge, if it's Square Enix. And if it is we don't know the reasons. Maybe Mare specifically is problematic and all the other well-known "third party software" aren't so they didn't had to act.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that Mare used similar security access as that stalker tool, but also the detail that freely spreading 18+ content in a paid service when credit card companies are refusing to work with businesses that have adult focussed content might be why Mare was taken down.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that Mare used similar security access as that stalker tool, but also the detail that freely spreading 18+ content in a paid service when credit card companies are refusing to work with businesses that have adult focussed content might be why Mare was taken down.

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As this person says, not only are credit card companies tightening their restrictions on adult content, but restrictions on adult content targeted at minors are also being strengthened worldwide (for example, the UK's Online Safety Act).

FFXIV's CERO rating is "C."

Therefore, in order for Square Enix to comply with FFXIV's CERO rating, it is obligated to regulate Mare, which has a mod sharing function and poses the risk of adult mod users sharing adult mods with minors in the game, in order to prevent minors from coming into contact with adult content.

Not only that, adult mod users seem to have no qualms about posting images of obscenely modified FFXIV games on Twitter and Instagram with the tag "#FFXIV."

People who don't play FFXIV would likely assume that images tagged with "#FFXIV" are provided by the official website.

I think the problem with some of you guys. Your getting mad at other ppl play style. Like bruh some of you are not even remotely allowed to judge. Some of you may have been here crying about lvl 100 dungeons being too hard. PPL lost a mod. They did it to themselves thats for sure. Yoshi-p has once , twice , hell even warn ppl 3 times not to let his eyes catch them. But no ppl wanted to be ppl and playing the FAFO game. Look I don't judge I mod games like lolipop chainsaw, hogwarts legacy, Elder scroll. Yet ppl need to realize. READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE. MODDING IS AGAINST TOS. You showed it off, you promoted it, you did the most. Take some responsibility and admit you screwed up. Now ppl being all cheerful believe me you dont get to judge. We all have our play styles. I don't see ppl jumping to learn Ultimate and Savage and constantly complaining about this game. If you modded and got in trouble on game sucks to be you, if your judging ppl for using mods....bruh your pathetic and sad. If the devs tell you not to do something and u decide to get all eyes on you after you do the modding. Then yes I believe u deserve to get ban. Remember mods are like drugs. If you dont wanna get caught dont do it. If your gonna do it remember the consequences of your actions. Again ppl acting like they on moral high horse, get off touch some grass, you really dont have the right to judge another person way of playing after what I seen some of you post on this forum.....spoiler: Its not good at times. So be smart and if your gonna break TOS expect to be living with one eye open.

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Originally Posted by Leathium

They need to shut down the game and redo the game code from scratch to prevent all the cheaty tools! and that may take god knows how long!

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nah, no game is 100% cheat proof. SE got lazy in backing their own ToS by letting so much stuff slide.

A good move by SE.

https://c.tenor.com/-qwsFZRNZe0AAAAd/tenor.gif

How long until this thread gets deleted too? Lol.