7.3 cliff hanger (spoilers, obviously)

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

There was. I made sure to note that down.


I don't mind the "It was ascians" all over again.
The writing and pacing was rough. I felt like we spent 2 seconds mourning the death of a supposedly close comrade, and 20 minutes talking about how an orphaned kid, who won the lottery and became king overnight with zero talents, education or parenting, feels completely useless in an emergency situation. 10 years playing this game, and almost 30 playing rpgs, and I've never wanted to punch my screen so much as every single time Wuk Lamat or Gulool Ja appeared on screen. I just couldn't take either of them seriously. And the amount of close ups Gulool Ja got this patch is insane.

I hope they learned their lesson and never try to take the spotlight away from the MC, which obviously being an MMO should be the player. I mean, if this was the starting point of the entire plot then sure, it could work. But after so many expansions, and the WoL gaining hero status across Eorzea, how did they even approve this?

That being said, I really like 7.3. Was everything I expected, and finally felt like I was playing XIV and not some weird fan made project.

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Why are some mmo players so obsessed with “story has to focus and revolve 100% around the player character?

I see this in pretty much every mmo community. But I don’t get it. Story giving the spotlight to other characters from time to time makes things much more varied and interesting.

7.3 story was amazing !

I'm really hoping Calyx is just a jobber the Ascians are using and the first sign he is not needed anymore they just end him. He doesn't have a main villain vibe at all to me. Better for him to get used and spat out by the Ascians I say

Thats the main issue that ruined the writing. Bad pacing and characters that dont make sense. They are dragging baby king and Erenville and half the Scions with us as mascots not characters. None of them DO ANYTHING.
At least Wuk Lamat makes sense somewhat and is the cross we need to bear until she is FINALLY GONE. The people of Tural make no sense either.

We BARELY hung out with the resistance, how are they expecting me to care if one of them dies? Same happened with Ahewan or whoever the f it was that died in EW. Both expansions are just badly paced rush jobs with plot contrivances. I have no idea WHY THEY ARE RUSHING and not taking their time for characters and bonds to form. At least there wasnt dumb af Loporrits messing up the serious scenes.

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

Why are some mmo players so obsessed with “story has to focus and revolve 100% around the player character?

I see this in pretty much every mmo community. But I don’t get it. Story giving the spotlight to other characters from time to time makes things much more varied and interesting.

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"From time to time". That is the key here.
Unlike Wuk Lamat, where she took like 90% of the screentime (exagerating probably, I did not track it).
We're not talking introducing a new character, and following along in their story, or finding out about the backstory of an NPC.

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Originally Posted by DeathNoodles

We were told before 7.0 even came out to remember the convocation and what members were left. It was clear since fanfest that Ascians were going to be involved.

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correct i am not sure how people didn't connect the dots, the moment they started talking about souls and reviving the endless as well as the evil smirk from fake sphene it was apparent this was a plot created by ascians and most likely helped create the preservation organization. which would explain why Emet-selch(hades) brought up to us from the get go.

this and Yoshida hard confirmed Gaius did not kill any ascians that he just merely fought against them an they are very much still alive. not counting Lahabra,igeyorm, elidibus, emet-selch, fandaniel, or mitron who have been defeated an returned to the aether. and logrif has relinquished her title an joined with Ryne on the first.

that leaves us then with Altima, Pashtarot, Deudaliphon, Emerololith, and Halmarut still active and 3 of them were strongly devoted to the words of Lahabrea the speaker so its likely they still hold his philosophy and ideals of the rejoining in mind.

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Originally Posted by Velthice

When they said 7.3 was going to be a shift in the story to focus more on the wol, I can only assume they misspoke because this is probably the most I have ever felt like a background character in the msq.

People are mourning fallen comrades, making friendships, defending their kingdoms, etc... And I'm just standing in the background like "you want me to leave and give you guys a minute or something?" I literally don't have a connection to any of these people or places

But hey, thanks for letting the wol get the final hit on the terminal (for all it didn't matter in the end) and not having wuk lamat or sphene do it all themselves. I know that took a lot of restraint

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What ?

Everything is about the Key, that is possessed by the WoL and is linked to Azem - which is also about the WoL. All the time in the Preservation laboratory are things about the Key since the primary objective fails because of Calyx.
The WoL is the only being Calyx sees as a threat, not just in words like in 7.0 but in his actions. He doesn't care at all about Real Sphene that he knew back then or probably doesn't even know about Wuk Lamat's name.
The WoL finally has its time to shine since 7.0 :

• The WoL is the only one not perturbed by Necron's aura, which makes sense since we confronted and won against the Endsinger despair which is far more intense than a few thousand fears of death.
• The WoL act during cutscene, a near miracle.
• Like you say, the WoL takes the last shot, just like Wuk Lamat did against Queen Eternal, which is quite litteraly a "Okay, you didn't liked that Wuk Lamat stole the kill on Queen Eternal, here our excuses for that, even with the same ost.
• A little trauma for Calyx about the WoL like it did for Thordan.

Everything in this patch revolves around 2 things: Neo-Alexandria, which makes sense that is where the antagonist is from and where the actions take place so to end the arc story, and the Key that is obviously the key to the future stories.

The only other characters that are barely as important as the WoL in this patch are Calyx, due to being the antagonist, Sphene being linked to the Neo-Alexandria plot.

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

Why are some mmo players so obsessed with “story has to focus and revolve 100% around the player character?

I see this in pretty much every mmo community. But I don’t get it. Story giving the spotlight to other characters from time to time makes things much more varied and interesting.

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The problem isn't that it "don't focus and revolve 100% around the player character", it happened before, with Estinien, Alphinaud, Lyse, Hien... etc... and more recently Zero. It's that it revolved 100% around Wuk Lamat, even when she wasn't here in Dawntrail.

Even more, the WoL in 7.0 is barely that of someone witnessing someone else story without any kind of agency or reason to be here for most of the part. Replacing the WoL by any experienced adventurer would have been enough until the fight with Queen Eternal.

To go a little further, FFXIV is part of a group of MMO where the player character matter in the story and the world they are in. There is few likes that, like SWTOR, GW2, TESO and somehow recent WoW. It's not like older MMO like DAOC, Everquest, old WoW, the New World where the player character is a nameless goon. So yes, in FFXIV, I like that the WoL matter and don't want it to change.

technically there are several parts of some ascians on different shards.

the soulfragment of nabriales we fought against wasnt from the source. so there could still be a part of him there.

the writers could just make something up to make him remember or whatever

Listen, on one hand we all knew ascians were still out there. That's 100% fine and they could server some really awesome potential story beats. On the other hand, they absolutely blitzed the stories for the void and the twelve to show that that the team wasn't messing around, and that they wanted a completely fresh start, leaving the past behind. That's bold and though I wasn't a fan of the rush job, I could recognize and get behind the pivot.

That said, if they give up on this endeavor half way through the patch cycle, what gives us any confidence that they are capable of ANYTHING else they claim they can do. What was all of that sacrifice for?

Aside from that, I also have empathy for them because after playing patch 7.3 it's clear as day that the skills of the writing team vary DRASTICALLY. There were some parts of the patch that were honest to god written REALLY well. Calyx robo body stepping through the ashes was a brilliant touch. Other parts were so incoherent, slow, insulted the intelligence of the viewer, and also seemed out of character at that point. I mean I really want to applaud them for recognizing their audiences wants and for honestly just wrapping up the story but my god, there were points where I thought about stopping. Whatever happens, 8.0 CANNOT have this same problem or I fear FFXIV will be in a really scary place that most of us don't want it to be in.

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

So it is the Ascians again? I thought we were completely done with them by the end of Endwalker.

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Nah the ascians were all about accepting death, these 'winterers" seem to be operating on a different, seemingly polar opposite MO

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Originally Posted by Garruss

I'm really hoping Calyx is just a jobber the Ascians are using and the first sign he is not needed anymore they just end him. He doesn't have a main villain vibe at all to me. Better for him to get used and spat out by the Ascians I say

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I think showing an ascian is a red herring at the very least, it seems much more likely that Calyx may essentially be an "anti-Emet" character given how his entire worldview is completely and irreconcilably at odds with the worldview of the Ancients. And the irl mythological connections add a ton of interesting context and implications that I don't think were just inserted willy-nilly.

Don't think the Ascian are the new "big bad". Just that some Ascians (all the rest of them ?) are part of those "Winterers", and it would be quite "logical" that the leader, if there is one, isn't an Ascian since all the Ascian were under the "surveillance" of the Unsundered and the Winterer are definitely hundreds of years old from probably multiple shards.

Calyx didn't seemed to be subservient at all, and he talk about "their" Winterer peer talking to the Ascian, not "my".

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

Nah the ascians were all about accepting death, these 'winterers" seem to be operating on a different, seemingly polar opposite MO

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It’s quite well established with Fandaniel that the goals of individual sundered ascians can differ greatly from the goals and philosophy of the og ancient trio.

It makes sense that others have their own agendas like Fandaniel had

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

Don't think the Ascian are the new "big bad". Just that some Ascians (all the rest of them ?) are part of those "Winterers", and it would be quite "logical" that the leader, if there is one, isn't an Ascian since all the Ascian were under the "surveillance" of the Unsundered and the Winterer are definitely hundreds of years old from probably multiple shards.

Calyx didn't seemed to be subservient at all, and he talk about "their" Winterer peer talking to the Ascian, not "my".

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I mean it's not entirely out of the question that these "winterers" are ascians that weren't on board with the Unsundered, we already had one ascian exposed as such(Amon/Fandaniel). And now that the Unsundered are out of the picture, they aren't constrained in operating as they actually wish to.

I don't want any more ascians in this game. Apparently this entire world only had one group of people that really mattered and they can't come up with anything else from the looks of it. With these level of villains hit me up, I can give you better ones.

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

It’s quite well established with Fandaniel that the goals of individual sundered ascians can differ greatly from the goals and philosophy of the og ancient trio.

It makes sense that others have their own agendas like Fandaniel had

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True, but those agendas wouldn't typically go against everything the Unsundered stood for and worked to bring back. Fandaniel was an exception, or so we thought?

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

I mean it's not entirely out of the question that these "winterers" are ascians that weren't on board with the Unsundered, we already had one ascian exposed as such(Amon/Fandaniel). And now that the Unsundered are out of the picture, they aren't constrained in operating as they actually wish to.

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Well, Fandaniel was acting low and hiding from Elidibus, and only truly acted when he had the confirmation that Elidibus was dead.
The Unsundered, mostly Elidibus, were monitoring all the Ascians, so there is no way he would have let some of his "friends" join a different with objectives that are so against everything he was for.

And like I said, Calyx talk to an equal, not a superior here.

I'm convinced that the Ascians aren't the "true" threat, it's just to make us think that, only for the reveal that they are just "part" of a bigger group to be more "interesting", under a leader that will become the true villain for multiple expansion.
We can't be "threaten" by simple Ascian after Emet, Elidibus or Fandaniel, it wouldn't work.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I don't want any more ascians in this game.

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I 100% do not believe they will be full ascians. I would put money on the new guy and Cylex or whatever that stock anime scientist #2943's name is, turn out to be Zenos and Fandanial shards. Because that is the level of creative bankruptcy I expect out of this team.

I'll take anything at this point, at least a(n excuse to bring back) Zenos would bring some life back into this. If someone on the team was capable of writing either of them. Calyx so far is more entertaining than the rest of the new cast to me but makes it to Asahi shard at best.

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Originally Posted by PaleYonder

I'll take anything at this point, at least a(n excuse to bring back) Zenos would bring some life back into this. If someone on the team was capable of writing either of them. Calyx so far is more entertaining than the rest of the new cast to me but makes it to Asahi shard at best.

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In 7.5 Wuk Lamat will reveal that she was Zenos in a fursuit all along.

I dont understand why people would want ANOTHER empty character (Zenos) back. He couldve been interesting but they skipped the writing for him because Endwalker needed to be rushed out because of "success" their words, not mine.

The memer in me wants to see how far these writers are allowed to take this clownshow. The story lover in me that loved parts of ARR up until parts of Endwalker with everything in between being great, is dying inside.

Oh I may be a Zenos enjoyer, but I'm just memeing here; it's gallow's humour. I loved this story, and I can't stand what happened to it.

So while I'm still subbed and hanging about, since it apparently can't be good anymore, I'd at least like it to be some variety of fun or interesting in some way as opposed to a children's morality play in which even the last bit of conflict and bad thing gets ironed out to happy music. Don't worry everyone, that thing where they don't remember their dead that provided at least a minute of mild intrigue and spooky vibes first time it was introduced? Can't have that, we bring back everyone's memories for happiness and smiles. :)
Please end it; I'll take Zenos's nonsensical return over this anytime.

Obviously SE has zero interest to find out what people dislike about their product.

https://imgur.com/a/jj1a7sq

This generic list is what I got asked on my way out. Somehow the interesting options "tired of piss-poor writing" or "lost all confidence in the studio ever returning to the quality of past xpacs" were missing from the list.

Oh well. Someone please send me a tell when it turns out that the true TRUE cross-my-fingers-and-hope-to-die-TRUE evil behind anything that ever went wrong in the entire universe is bald nipple guy (as it was he who inflicted Hermes with depression, and so on). That plot twist might at least be worth a good laugh :D

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Originally Posted by Daralii

They spent chunks of 6.0, Pandaemonium, and Myths of the Realm trying to conclusively end Amaurot's influence over the modern age, it was previously stated(I think in 5.3 or earlier in ShB) that the remaining Ascians lacked the vision and organization to do anything without the Unsundered guiding them, and all of that was all undone the second the damn key reacted to the Azem soul crystal that Emet made. The entire team just seems so creatively bankrupt that it's almost impressive.

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'chunks of 6.0'

While not incorrect, you can go even further to 5.0 where it was already stated there: "Without the unsundered, the Ascians and their schemes will dissolve", or something along those very lines, said by none other than Emet-Selch himself