87th PLL showcases a need for change in announcing content

Maybe you should be more mad about the lack of options to gear up alts, because the way you talk about it it sounds like you didn't even have fun putting in the effort for your split runs? Are you still playing for fun?

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Originally Posted by Valence

Maybe you should be more mad about the lack of options to gear up alts, because the way you talk about it it sounds like you didn't even have fun putting in the effort for your split runs? Are you still playing for fun?

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You mean do I enjoy having to run splits? absolutely not, I shouldn't have to game the gearing system with alt characters to acquire gear for alt jobs at a faster pace in 2025. Regardless, the argument isn't about whether splits is necessary or fun, it's literally that SE needs to give players better lead time for the major content cycles. There's no way that even a semi-competent dev team would not have known whether they could deliver a piece of content 4 months out from their projected release. SE needs to own up the fact that they suck at communicating and I am not alone in the sentiment that 2 months before is no longer acceptable for a "are we getting a specific piece of content or not" in 2025.

No, that's exactly what I am saying. Your problem isn't with heads up, your problem is with the gearing system and the existence of split runs to begin with. I don't disagree that their communication has much left to be desired though, but this alt issue sounds like a gearing system issue, and overall a lack of flexibility from the design.

Was DSR slated for 5.3 or 5.5 before the pandemic pushed it back? I remember a nebulous “later in the 5.x series”, but not a direct statement of “we wanted this out for 5.3, sorry for the delay”. They might have decided uwu was too close to ucob and this was the first time they were able to adjust since.

The game has way more problems than not getting an ultimate in 7.3

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Originally Posted by Valence

No, that's exactly what I am saying. Your problem isn't with heads up, your problem is with the gearing system and the existence of split runs to begin with. I don't disagree that their communication has much left to be desired though, but this alt issue sounds like a gearing system issue, and overall a lack of flexibility from the design.

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Originally Posted by churchren

No regard to the time and energy spent running splits because of the awful gearing system
No regard for the time spent to organizing gear & loot for people and alt jobs
No regard for the energy and effort required to put out recruitment postings, sifting through applications, interviews & trials
No regard for the dart-board game we play with trying to predict our paid-time off requests
No regard for the preparations I have to make IRL for the release

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I come back to the forums and some things never change. Lets read the OP before we start telling them exactly what they mean lmao.

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Originally Posted by churchren

If you agree with me, please upvote so this can hopefully be seen by people with actual authority

I am quite incensed at the casualness of Yoshi-p in announcing there was no 7.3 ultimate

Why?!

Because to me, I saw no regard for player-base and what it is needed to actually prepare for an ultimate release if you intend to raid at a hardcore level.

No regard to the time and energy spent running splits because of the awful gearing system
No regard for the time spent to organizing gear & loot for people and alt jobs
No regard for the energy and effort required to put out recruitment postings, sifting through applications, interviews & trials
No regard for the dart-board game we play with trying to predict our paid-time off requests
No regard for the preparations I have to make IRL for the release

Yoshi-P and the leaders at SE need to get with the times of 2025 and realize that waiting until 2 months before a supposed patch release date is not acceptable or respectful to us who put so much time and effort into preparing for these releases. Regardless of their cultural disdain for failing to deliver on promises, it should be apparent that raiding in any MMO at a hardcore level requires a decent amount of time, effort, and dedication. And to shy away from respecting their players so they can save face down the road is honestly just a slap in the face to us.

How long have they known there would be no 7.3 ultimate? How long have they been reading and monitoring the player-base talking about the 7.3 ultimate? Are they aware that we rely so heavily on them being consistent with content cycles and patch releases to plan our raiding is solely due to the fact that they refuse to announce anything concrete until a few weeks before a patch releases?

Do they not understand the concept of just telling us what content will be confirmed for a patch, regardless of release date? Do they not understand that even just telling us a month in the year that a patch release is better than waiting until 2 weeks beforehand? It seems to me that this is a showcase of a dev team that does not understand the environment they've created and what impacts it has on us that choose to try and enjoy this game at a high level

Honestly, Yoshi-P and his leadership team need to break with their constant tradition and timidness by producing actual content roadmaps and giving us more notice for content release dates. The world of today does not operate on a 2-week lead-time for almost anything. Not even their own game allows people to prep for an ultimate 2 weeks before a patch release.

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Last time they did this they also held people on the line for as long as possible. There probably wont be another ultimate at all in DT anymore. SE says it's only going to be delayed to keep raiders like you subbed all throughout the savage tiers.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

I come back to the forums and some things never change. Lets read the OP before we start telling them exactly what they mean lmao.

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Maybe actually take the time to read more than just the OP before throwing rocks? Some things never change indeed.

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Originally Posted by churchren

you literally just stopped reading my post didn't you? I'm mad because they didn't give us a notice until the PLL that there would be no 7.31 ultimate, thereby causing me and my group to waste our time with split clears and ulti prep. I don't care about the lack of a 7.31 ultimate itself, i just wanted to know before we had spent all the time prepping for one that we had ample reason to believe they would deliver one otherwise

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Was DSR slated for 5.3 or 5.5 before the pandemic pushed it back? I remember a nebulous “later in the 5.x series”, but not a direct statement of “we wanted this out for 5.3, sorry for the delay”. They might have decided uwu was too close to ucob and this was the first time they were able to adjust since.

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That would be odd given that TOP released in 6.3.

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Originally Posted by Valence

No, that's exactly what I am saying. Your problem isn't with heads up, your problem is with the gearing system and the existence of split runs to begin with. I don't disagree that their communication has much left to be desired though, but this alt issue sounds like a gearing system issue, and overall a lack of flexibility from the design.

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yes if they fixed the gearing system, splits would not be necessary, but I personally don't see them being able to fix gearing easily. Whereas simply telling us things sooner is actually very simple. In addition, telling us sooner also allows people to properly plan PTO for HC raiding. Being able to plan 4 months at least in advance would be so much more welcome than waiting 2months to 2 weeks before a patch to have a solid release date or even a ballpark

Even if the next ultimate is ready by 7.5 (cause why wouldn't it be, that'd be over a year in development) i'm convinced they won't release it anyway.
They'll sit on it until 8.1 and use the excuse of "having to focus on 8.0 and job reworks" as why they can't release a 2nd DT ult.

Ok, so hear me out

At no point did he ever say there would be an ultimate, and if there was going to be one it was going to be early august. So, wasting energy recruiting for an ultimate the devs never even hinted at happening and requesting PTO earlier than today for a day we know is going to be mid-august or later for the ultimate is entirely a you problem, not on the devs. Once it is announced, there is always plenty of time to recruit and plenty of time to request PTO. Guessing days to take off for content you guessed would happen like 2 months from now is absolutely the stupidest thing I ever heard from a player.

I still think there are communication issues, yes I think gearing needs to change especially for alts, but your primary complaint here is 100% on you and this is pretty embarrassing. I predicted before DT ever came out we wouldn't have a 7.3 ulti, they never once hinted or mentioned it. Seriously. Why would you even think its coming? There isnt even an established pattern for ultis BESIDES the x.1 patch and even then I would never assume it.

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

Ok, so hear me out

At no point did he ever say there would be an ultimate, and if there was going to be one it was going to be early august. So, wasting energy recruiting for an ultimate the devs never even hinted at happening and requesting PTO earlier than today for a day we know is going to be mid-august or later for the ultimate is entirely a you problem, not on the devs. Once it is announced, there is always plenty of time to recruit and plenty of time to request PTO. Guessing days to take off for content you guessed would happen like 2 months from now is absolutely the stupidest thing I ever heard from a player.

I still think there are communication issues, yes I think gearing needs to change especially for alts, but your primary complaint here is 100% on you and this is pretty embarrassing. I predicted before DT ever came out we wouldn't have a 7.3 ulti, they never once hinted or mentioned it. Seriously. Why would you even think its coming? There isnt even an established pattern for ultis BESIDES the x.1 patch and even then I would never assume it.

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keep assuming things. Have you ever put together or been in a HC static for an ultimate? it takes weeks to months to find compatible players, not to mention the actual prep time we spend getting ready once the static is put together. On top of that, some people work jobs that require 3-4 months of advanced notice to take PTO. So yeah, it's definitely not a me problem. And while it's easy to say all this about our expectations/assumptions for a 7.31 ultimate, there was several things from previous comments and their own history that gave enough credit to a 7.31 ultimate.

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Originally Posted by churchren

On top of that, some people work jobs that require 3-4 months of advanced notice to take PTO.

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"Sir, this is a Wendy's."

If someone feels compelled to take PTO for a game -- and that game's arbitrary release and content cycle -- that's entirely on them.

To me, it's not about the information
These problems could be fix if they just fix their looting system.
If we could gear alts more easily, we can enter Ultimate whenever we want without time pressure.
8 weeks for 1 job? 16 weeks for 1 patch?
2 jobs per patch and we have 21 jobs .
No brainer...

FIX THE LOOT SYSTEM

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Originally Posted by churchren

keep assuming things. Have you ever put together or been in a HC static for an ultimate? it takes weeks to months to find compatible players, not to mention the actual prep time we spend getting ready once the static is put together. On top of that, some people work jobs that require 3-4 months of advanced notice to take PTO. So yeah, it's definitely not a me problem. And while it's easy to say all this about our expectations/assumptions for a 7.31 ultimate, there was several things from previous comments and their own history that gave enough credit to a 7.31 ultimate.

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Compatible players = unemployed and on PC so they can have Splatoon? You sound pretty mad over some garbage shit content that's cheated to death anyway by the few people who care about it...why not play an actually competitive game if you're so HC?

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

"Sir, this is a Wendy's."

If someone feels compelled to take PTO for a game -- and that game's arbitrary release and content cycle -- that's entirely on them.

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As a midcore raider without a static, I did take PTO for one raid tier in 2020. Wasn't worth it, but with a static it very well might be.

e/: I don't agree with OP about the whole telling us in advance thing. I think instead they should just unlock the weekly raid rewards earlier, i.e. one month before any given ultimate release.

Putting aside what changes they actually make in the actual game, every time I watch the LL I can't stop laughing at how poorly and badly designed it is. Showing papers and filming with the phone, talking about small features endlessly... I like being stuck in the 90-ies too, I guess.

It's just another confirmation of how stuck in the past they are

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Originally Posted by churchren

yes if they fixed the gearing system, splits would not be necessary, but I personally don't see them being able to fix gearing easily. Whereas simply telling us things sooner is actually very simple. In addition, telling us sooner also allows people to properly plan PTO for HC raiding. Being able to plan 4 months at least in advance would be so much more welcome than waiting 2months to 2 weeks before a patch to have a solid release date or even a ballpark

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Fair enough!

Honestly an ultimate in the .5 of a patch makes more sense anyway. Going to be a long drought anyway until next expansion, so why not in addition to an extreme and some savage floors, throw an ultimate into the mix as well to keep high-end raiders preoccupied?

There was never a reason to expect there would be an Ultimate in 7.31. They have always... ALWAYS given us teasers and/or talked about releasing an Ultimate more than 6 months ahead of time. It makes far more sense to put it in 7.51 anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Compatible players = unemployed and on PC so they can have Splatoon? You sound pretty mad over some garbage shit content that's cheated to death anyway by the few people who care about it...why not play an actually competitive game if you're so HC?

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Not to completely disagree, but splatoon isn't some automatic thing. I DONT USE IT DEVS, but I do know what someone needs to make the presets for them, which means once strats are known, splatoon can be developed, but if you are a "hardcore" prog group, you will not get to use it. It simply won't catch up to your prog point. I don't think people should use it, but this post comes from a place of ignorance and bitterness.

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Originally Posted by churchren

keep assuming things. Have you ever put together or been in a HC static for an ultimate? it takes weeks to months to find compatible players, not to mention the actual prep time we spend getting ready once the static is put together. On top of that, some people work jobs that require 3-4 months of advanced notice to take PTO. So yeah, it's definitely not a me problem. And while it's easy to say all this about our expectations/assumptions for a 7.31 ultimate, there was several things from previous comments and their own history that gave enough credit to a 7.31 ultimate.

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No, it still is. And what jobs require that? Healthcare? Aviation? Teachers? Surgeons? That's literally all I can think of and i guarantee you aren't finding those people for your HC groups. Also, do you even have experience with hardcore groups? Your best clear was FRU on week 3 which is far far worse than competitive.

Also, there was NOTHING ever said that gave credence to a 7.31 ultimate EVER. He briefly mentioned to Arthars before DT that their MAY be 2 or 3 ultimates according to Arthars and no other indication ever. In fact, before DT came out, I had a predictions sheet that has been nearly on point and my sheet said "There will not be an ultimate in 7.3". There was more evidence to suggest it not existing than existing. I get it, you are salty that you are wrong. You have some points, but your post is mostly just bitter for the sake of being bitter because you were wrong and you know it.

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

Not to completely disagree, but splatoon isn't some automatic thing. I DONT USE IT DEVS, but I do know what someone needs to make the presets for them, which means once strats are known, splatoon can be developed, but if you are a "hardcore" prog group, you will not get to use it. It simply won't catch up to your prog point. I don't think people should use it, but this post comes from a place of ignorance and bitterness.

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Pretty much. People who do raid when content first comes out and specifically take PTO for it have 0 tools that solve the mechanics for them.
Probably they are just vomiting something they saw mentioned by other people, also with a poor understanding of the tools mentioned, just because it's the hardcore vs the "casuals" debate.

Also, regarding HC raiding, there are 2 variations of it. One that is all about competing in the world first run and which does require a lot of prep, and one that doesn't necessarily aim to compete for it, but they want to clear it asap, and a lot of hours are being sunk in.

The more accepted definition in the raiding community of what casual/midcore/shc/hc means refers to time/ week, mostly, and does not necessarily refer to the type of content; EX/savage/ults.

PS: FRU had all strats out by week 3 xd! I have a slide from day 1 for phase 1 of the fight (which is still valid to this day). Also, a lot of SIMS for the first few phases in the first week. Some people are truly insane (in a good way).

The craziest thing to me was that if Yoshi-P hadn’t replied to that fan comment about the possibility of there being an Ultimate in 7.3, they would likely have not brought it up at all and we’d have been in the dark until Part 2 of the Live Letter, it’s like they didn’t think the lack of an Ultimate was an important detail which is wild if so…

Personally I’m a proponent of having an Ultimate in X.11 and X.51 to fill the content drought and justify having a TEA+ difficulty Ultimate and then a second one which is more challenging akin to DSR/TOP. However, there’s no guarantee we’ll actually get a second Ultimate in 7.51 and there could be a repeat of the DSR situation… I’m not saying we’re entitled to Ultimate content per se (I’ve done Savage tiers despite there being no Ult afterwards like Promise and Anabaseios just for the fun of it) but it would be nice to have some sort of capstone content to use that Savage BiS in aside from demolishing roulette/FATEs slightly faster…

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

Not to completely disagree, but splatoon isn't some automatic thing. I DONT USE IT DEVS, but I do know what someone needs to make the presets for them, which means once strats are known, splatoon can be developed, but if you are a "hardcore" prog group, you will not get to use it. It simply won't catch up to your prog point. I don't think people should use it, but this post comes from a place of ignorance and bitterness.

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Considering they asked the OP to play a competitive game, it's likely a rage-bait. It's still hard to tell, since so many posts here were made out of ignorance and failed to understand the OP complaints. Or some people really think it's okay for SE to announce there will be an Ultimate just one month before its patch, when some people spend 4 months in Savage and still can't get more than 2 weapons.