Revelations from Patch 7.2: Seekers of Eternity

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Originally Posted by Fenral

For what it's worth (M8 Boss)

He's like 90% Custom Robo, with a tiny sprinkling of LBX Fenrir because Yoshi-P and Akihiro Hino are besties. No Gundams were harmed in the making of this mech.

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To me he just reminded me of a G Gundam fighter if the Gundam helmet showed the face of the fighter that was piloting it.

Speculating what Calyx knows

I've been speculating non-Ascian involved ways for Calyx to know about the reflections, and it might just simply be from studying the Milala as their souls would have been denser compared to everyone else. So he could have run experiments to see it it could be possible to 'thin' a soul, and then extrapolate how much more dense an Alexandrian soul could potentially be. However it doesn't explain how he know his reflection is The Ninth. I just think it would be much more interesting , and it would sell him as a genius if he figured this all out for himself instead of just 'an Ascian told him.'

Regarding Naming Conventions

Though the usage of minerals in Eldite and Hyune names is a dominant trend, I think it is inaccurate to call it the only trend. Names such as Calyx (from κάλυξ, meaning "case of a bud, husk"), Hector, Nostalgia (from νόστος+ἄλγος, meaning "returning home" + "pain"), and Otis (from ὠτίς, meaning "Bustard," a type of bird) suggest that there might be another, perhaps older, trend of Alexandrian names with Greek influences. That Sphene recognizes Calyx by name tells us it is not a new moniker taken by him after interactions he may or may not have had with Ascians. Additionally, Alexandria itself derives from Alexander, a Greek name (and one of historical note at that).

Zelenia might also be a variation upon Selene, the Greek goddess of the moon.

Some of my thoughts on the stories

Arcadion

I think the story so far is alright, but one thing that still bothers me is how low stakes it seems to be compared to other ones. Other raids typically have some world ending threat - Bahamut, Alexander, Omega, etc.

We don't know who the President is, and this is the only thing that I'm looking forward to finding out. Whoever he is, however, he doesn't seem to be a huge threat to anyone other than the competitors themselves. A friend of mine had a nice theory that he might be Manderville's shard from the ninth

Other than that the only issue I have is the deal with Eutrope. So she wanted to kill us not to save herself but... Her boyfriend? Ex-boyfriend? If it was a family member like her little sister or mother I could understand but I'm not buying this story. Unless I miss something this just seems very weak and I don't quite see the point of it.

MSQ

I like what they're doing with Sphene and Calyx seems like a good villain, here's hoping he doesn't just die in 7.3 and never comes back (that would be absolutely awful.)

The "post credit" scene didn't give us much, but I was really looking forward to finding people theorizing about what this "question" is that Calyx is referring to, but it seems no one's talking about that :(

I am very very bothered by the fact that at the very end of last patch Y'shtola said "I'll get into studying the key immediately" and then proceeds to not do that at all and instead say the same thing at the end of this patch. Like... At this point it feels like this key is going to be a lead up to 8.0? Because there's no way the key is a plot point only for 7.3 and then goodbye, right?

Also, very interesting that they decided to completely forget everything about the first half of dawntrail. Honestly Kozamauka, Urqopatcha and that Mamook zone feel like they were in a different expansion. I can't say I dislike this, because to me the futuristic stuff is a million times more interesting, but I do fear that by doing this it's going to make Dawntrail age even worse by completely further undermining everything we did in part 1.

As a final note, it becomes more clear than ever in this patch that the writers are taking feedback into account. Wuk Lamat was pushed out of so many scenes: She went away to "explain" how to move out of Solution Nine to Milos' mom (this one in particular was so obvious) to give more space to Alisaie and Milos; She stayed back to aid someone who was hurt during the attack; She stayed talking to some random NPC while we were giving Sphene a tour of the city, multiple times in fact. If this was 7.0 MSQ you know for a fact that she would be right next to us every step of the way. Perhaps the "focusing on second half of Dawntrail and forgetting everything else" is also part of taking feedback into account, but the former was very evident to me.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

For what it's worth (M8 Boss)

He's like 90% Custom Robo, with a tiny sprinkling of LBX Fenrir because Yoshi-P and Akihiro Hino are besties. No Gundams were harmed in the making of this mech.

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omg, I'm glad somebody else thought so too about him looking like something out of that obscure N64/Gamecube game.

And Dancing "Greeninja" and M6's obvious Splatoon expy.

I hope Yoshi's besties with Nintendo too given the recent copyright warpath they've been on over Palworld. (I kid, ...mostly).

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Originally Posted by Levinphos

Regarding Naming Conventions

Though the usage of minerals in Eldite and Hyune names is a dominant trend, I think it is inaccurate to call it the only trend. Names such as Calyx (from κάλυξ, meaning "case of a bud, husk"), Hector, Nostalgia (from νόστος+ἄλγος, meaning "returning home" + "pain"), and Otis (from ὠτίς, meaning "Bustard," a type of bird) suggest that there might be another, perhaps older, trend of Alexandrian names with Greek influences. That Sphene recognizes Calyx by name tells us it is not a new moniker taken by him after interactions he may or may not have had with Ascians. Additionally, Alexandria itself derives from Alexander, a Greek name (and one of historical note at that).

Zelenia might also be a variation upon Selene, the Greek goddess of the moon.

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There's no "dominant trend" of minerals in Hyune names – I had previously wrote that Sphene is the sole example, although I have since remembered Geode. Perhaps there are one or two others I'm forgetting, but for the most part it is only Eldites that use mineral names.

I don't have my compiled list of character names on hand, but the Greek-origin names are very much the standard for Hume, not an alternative.

Specifically regarding Otis, I've seen a few different etymologies suggested but the most likely is Outis (Οὔτις) meaning "nobody" or "no one".

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Originally Posted by Levinphos

Regarding Naming Conventions

Though the usage of minerals in Eldite and Hyune names is a dominant trend, I think it is inaccurate to call it the only trend. Names such as Calyx (from κάλυξ, meaning "case of a bud, husk"), Hector, Nostalgia (from νόστος+ἄλγος, meaning "returning home" + "pain"), and Otis (from ὠτίς, meaning "Bustard," a type of bird) suggest that there might be another, perhaps older, trend of Alexandrian names with Greek influences. That Sphene recognizes Calyx by name tells us it is not a new moniker taken by him after interactions he may or may not have had with Ascians. Additionally, Alexandria itself derives from Alexander, a Greek name (and one of historical note at that).

Zelenia might also be a variation upon Selene, the Greek goddess of the moon.

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Regarding the trial boss, her name can be a variation on selenite, a form of mineral whose sandy-colored variations are called "Desert Rose" due to it growing in clusters resembling newly blooming roses, going hand-in-hand with her rose motif.

Inspired me to make my own catalog for Eldite and Hyune NPCs. Likely missed a few, but it shows the big picture.

Hyune Names:

Greek
* Amaryllis (Solution Nine NPC; from ἀμαρύσσω, "sparkle, shine")
* Cadmus (Solution Nine NPC; from κάδμος, mythological figure)
* Calyx (MSQ NPC; from κάλυξ, "case of a bud, husk")
* Corinna (Solution Nine NPC; from κόρη, "maiden")
* Delia (Solution Nine NPC; derived from an epithet of Artemis)
* Dorian (Heritage Found NPC; from Δωριεῖς, a Greek people)
* Eirene (Solution Nine NPC; from εἰρήνη, "peace")
* Eleni (Solution Nine NPC; from Ελένη, Helen)
* Eliana (Living Memory NPC; from Ηλιάνα)
* Elias (Heritage Found NPC; from Ἠλίας)
* Erastus (Living Memory NPC; from ἐραστός, "lovable")
* Filomena (Solution Nine NPC; from φίλος+ménos, "friend of strength")
* Hector (Arcadion NPC; from Ἕκτωρ, mythological figure)
* Isadora (Solution Nine NPC; from Ἶσις+δῶρον, "gift of Isis")
* Larissa (Solution Nine NPC; from Λάρισα, mythological figure)
* Leander (Solution Nine NPC; from Λέανδρος, mythological figure)
* Melody (Solution Nine NPC; from μελῳδία)
* Milos (Solution Nine NPC; from Μῆλος, a Greek island)
* Myron (Living Memory NPC; from Μύρων, an ancient Greek sculptor)
* Nostalgia (MSQ NPC; from νόστος+ἄλγος, "returning home" + "pain")
* Otis (MSQ NPC; possibly from Οὔτις, "no one")
* Petra (Living Memory NPC; from πέτρα, "rock")
* Philomon (Solution Nine NPC; variation of Philemon, from Φιλήμων, "kindly")
* Rhoa (Living Memory NPC; possibly from ῥόα, "pomegranate")
* Rhodina (Living Memory NPC; from ῥόδον, "rose")
* Tassos (Solution Nine NPC; variant of Αναστάσιος, "resurrection")
* Theone (Solution Nine NPC; possible variant of Θεία, "goddess")
* Theron (Solution Nine NPC; from Θήρων, "knot")

Latin
* Flavian (Living Memory NPC)
* Ilia (Living Memory NPC)

Mineral
* Geode (MSQ NPC)
* Sphene (MSQ NPC)

Ambiguous/Other/Unknown
* Basil (Living Memory NPC)
* Constancy (Living Memory NPC)
* Genolt (Solution Nine NPC)
* Karisa (Solution Nine NPC)
* Neon (Solution Nine NPC)
* Petal (Heritage Found NPC)
* Zale (Solution Nine NPC)

Eldite Names:

Mineral
* Beryl (Solution Nine NPC)
* Covellite (Living Memory NPC)
* Cinnabar (Heritage Found NPC)
* Feldspar (Solution Nine NPC)
* Gabbro (Solution Nine NPC)
* Ganister (Solution Nine NPC)
* Gossan (MSQ NPC)
* Malachite (Heritage Found NPC)
* Sapphire (Living Memory NPC)
* Shale (MSQ NPC)
* Skarn (Living Memory NPC)
* Unakite (Solution Nine NPC)
* Zircon (Solution Nine NPC)

Other
* Strika (Heritage Found NPC)

Didn't find any Hyune named after minerals other than Geode and Sphene. Geode's name could be easily explained by 400 years of cultural contact resulting in borrowed naming conventions, but I would want at least one more contemporary example to be confident about that. Sphene's name likely has a more significant explanation.

Arcadion: Cruiserweight

Well, that was about usual for the middle of a raid tier. Little forward action. Fun fights - mostly (M3 was a bit of a pain), story wasn't much but a bunch of people being very stupid, and the lack of a minion is disappointing. (I did get the funky shades on my first go though so that's cool, especially after I didn't get the Nano Lord until the week before 7.2 dropped.)

Considering the President knows where this "Drop of Life" is it suggests they have access to it, which raises the question of why it's not being used for psychonekrosis already. Part of me can't help but feel like it's all part of this "season's" kayfabe; like they already knew about it and actually do cure the illness, and the talk about some nefariousness going on with the President is entirely due to Eutrope learning about it and going off-script, which has snowballed into this mess. Maybe. We'll see. In spite of the high stakes that psychonekrosis introduced this is still entertainment, and kayfabe often extends to "backstage" stuff after all.

Did not think Howling Blade bore a resemblance to any particular mecha series. I've put together dozens of Gundam models (I'm really liking the MGSDs, I love the MGEX Strike Freedom I put together during Hurricane Helene, and the Cal-Re.A is pretty sweet too) so I know a thing or two; other than the detachable drones (funnels) I didn't see much resemblance.

Character names for all the S9 races (not that we were talking about Milalla but I might as well throw them in):

Hyune

Female

Amaryllis
Corinna
Delia
Eirene
Eleni
Eliana
Eutrope (Hhetsarro but noted to have taken an Alexandrian name)
Filomena
Ilia
Isadora
Karisa
Larisa
Melancholy (Shetona but seems to be following Hyune names)
Melody
Nostalgia
Petal
Petra
Rhoa
Rhodina (Rowena shard)
Sphene
Theone
(?) Zelenia


Male

Ambrose
Atticus
Basil
Cadmus
Constancy
Dorian
Elias
Erastus
Flavian
Genolt (Gerolt shard)
Geode
Hector
Leander
Lithander
Milos
Myron
Neon
Otis
Philomon
Tassos
Theron
Zale
Zander

Eldite

Female

Beryl
Covellite
Sapphire
Shale
Strika - I'm not sure whether this is meant to be a name or actually a title/role ("Striker")
Unakite


Male

Cinnabar
Euclase (odd one out with a Hyune name; found in Living Memory and may only be catalogued as "fair-haired man")
Feldspar
Gabbro
Ganister
Gossan
Malachite
Skarn
Zircon

Milalla

Female

Alayla
Mozeo
Maya
Rinuri
Saralla
Ubuyu


Male

Ketek
Kunuk
Metem
Monom
Phiniph
Robor
Tokot
Tonot

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Arcadion: Cruiserweight

Did not think Howling Blade bore a resemblance to any particular mecha series. I've put together dozens of Gundam models (I'm really liking the MGSDs, I love the MGEX Strike Freedom I put together during Hurricane Helene, and the Cal-Re.A is pretty sweet too) so I know a thing or two; other than the detachable drones (funnels) I didn't see much resemblance.

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Slightly off-topic:

I am a model kit newbie by comparison, but I have an LBX Hunter standing on my computer tower next to my acrylic G'raha standee (and LBX Fenrir in a box waiting for my next free afternoon). I think Danball Senki is the only "mecha" series to do digitigrade legs and entirely cosmetic (and floofy!) tails (just not in the kits T^T), but the other obvious aesthetic source besides Custom Robo (which is more based on action figures a la G.I. Joe than model kits) is probably Mega Man, which has definitely done a number of beastly hybrids and also tends towards human faces. Notably, Howling Blade's arms aren't even jointed like a robot's, they look metallic but bend naturally at the elbow, so I think that disqualifies him as a Gundam already. That's some new-model Reploid nonsense right there. Or someone got lazy with the rigging.

I never got into Seed, but the MGEX Strike Freedom does look really cool.

Does anyone know the song that plays when Calyx is first introduced? Is it from FFIX or is it new music?

Asked around elsewhere, and it turns out it might be new music after all. The plot thickens!

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Does anyone know the song that plays when Calyx is first introduced? Is it from FFIX or is it new music?

Asked around elsewhere, and it turns out it might be new music after all. The plot thickens!

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Yeah, that theme's new, and to my knowledge doesn't have a known name yet.

If Calyx is going to stick around I hope they tone down the chunibyou. While generally I think XIV does an amazing job at balancing aspects of western and eastern storytelling and tropes, Calyx took a pretty deep dive into the anime tropes and aesthetics that it was pretty jarring to me.

So, about Calyx...

How big do you think his role will be going forward? According to Yoshi P the 7.1-7.3 cycle will "conclude the story of Dawntrail", but that doesn't necessarily mean Calyx will be dead and dealt with, right?

Do you think he'll be a side villain in 8.0, kind of like Zenos? Do you think we'll learn that Calyx is just one piece of a bigger scheme being plotted by the real villains, kind of like the new Ascians for the future expansions?

Or do you think he'll simply die in 7.3, never to be mentioned again?

I think Calyx, and Preservation will be defeated in Dawntrail, but I think they are a part of a bigger plot. Whether they are aware they were part of a bigger plot is hard to say, Calyx seems to know a lot.

Spoilers Ahead

The arcadian

First up the accardian. It ws pretty normal ha dahell of a time for the first one dancing green. Really not liking this new direction of tells for mechs.Rest of the fights were ok.

MSQ

Quite frankly it is a little late to introduce preservation and Calrx. If Dawntrail is supposed to be wrapped up in 7.3 what is the point of introducing him right now? Among other things i am pretty sure lightning does not make the soil soft enough for buildings to get submerged.It would have been a charred wreck like heritage found was. By now i would think we could of gone to the ninth shard use electrope to make water aether directly countering the rampant lightning aether and then everyone goes home. But instead were fooling around on our own shard trying to stop this villain from attacking other shards. Not too mention this guys doesn't really have an amry to begin with. All the electrope is in on the ninth. You'll mine what you have on the source in no time.

As you can guess i am not fond of the msq. There really was not any point to come to turyola. All the conflict is on the heritage found, solution 9, ninth shard area. It reminds me of the stormblood expansion when they tried to do gyr albana and doma at the same time.

Thinking about what Calyx's 'new question' might be.

Is mankind fit to evolve? Calyx might answer "no."

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Originally Posted by Cassar

So, about Calyx...

How big do you think his role will be going forward? According to Yoshi P the 7.1-7.3 cycle will "conclude the story of Dawntrail", but that doesn't necessarily mean Calyx will be dead and dealt with, right?

Do you think he'll be a side villain in 8.0, kind of like Zenos? Do you think we'll learn that Calyx is just one piece of a bigger scheme being plotted by the real villains, kind of like the new Ascians for the future expansions?

Or do you think he'll simply die in 7.3, never to be mentioned again?

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I hope the answer is 'very', because Calyx is immediately among the most interesting villains that FFXIV has ever had to me. The game's always had villains who are big on feelings, and small on any sort of reasoned, calculative thought or planning; hell, even the unfeeling robot trying to find The Strongest Warrior was ultimately motivated by emotions and had no actual plan. it's genuinely compelling and uniquely chilling to be going up against a villain who has Done The Math.

If we want to talk about what sort of role he can take, the immediate comparison in terms of patch presence is Asahi, who also turned up in a .2 expansion patch as an unusual, off-step villain. A pessimist would say that means he dies next patch, but I'd put forward that Asahi laid the groundwork for Fandaniel, so if this is the pattern being followed, we can't just immediately write him off even if someone shoots him several times next patch; he stays on the corkboard.

...But I'd say a much more likely character to compare against might be Elidibus, who also made his debut in patches and continued to be a long-term concern for years afterward, even if in his case we didn't actually want him around for most of that (seriously, the one-patch rejuvenation of Elidibus' whole character is maybe the most impressive stunt in the entire game). If we're setting for The Future of FFXIV, it makes much more sense that Calyx is our new Elidibus than anything else--especially because they gave him the honor of a whole new theme.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

The new antagonist doesn't seem to be so bad, as in, looks like he may make for a good villain. BUT. I cannot get over how absolutely awful his character model looks. Like they pasted a 12 year old boy's head onto an adult body and then gave him a stock anime scientist outfit. Like they were trying to make a Genshin character in FFXIV. He just looks so awful. They really need to decide on an art direction and theme then just stick with it.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

That is a bit of the point with him though. He looks generic because he was a person who was suck in bed for his whole life due to his condition so he never got to live a life that allowed him to make himself look unique. As a result he was always sick and physically he never properly developed as a result of it.

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I'd like to add that if I'm not mistaken. There's a line that mentions he was severely sick from birth and didn't have much time to live. As such, I believe physically he died during his teen years and is the reason why he look very young and childlike. He's probably the same age of Alphinaud/Alisaie prior to his death.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I hope the answer is 'very', because Calyx is immediately among the most interesting villains that FFXIV has ever had to me. The game's always had villains who are big on feelings, and small on any sort of reasoned, calculative thought or planning; hell, even the unfeeling robot trying to find The Strongest Warrior was ultimately motivated by emotions and had no actual plan. it's genuinely compelling and uniquely chilling to be going up against a villain who has Done The Math.

[snip]

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Which sounds really great, but Calyx hasn't really thought things through at all. He just asserts without evidence or reason that humanity has reached either an evolutionary apex or dead end (it's not clear which), and thus the Endless and other yet-unseen experiments are needed to continue pushing humanity forward. That's not how evolution works at all; besides which, the implication Calyx's negative opinion of biological existence comes from his own frailty in life means that his reasons are less logic and more anger about his own condition. (Different writers are a thing, but a recurring theme in the Hy/Zo saga was that no matter how people tried to "reason" it out, their motivations were ultimately humanistic, self-interested pursuits.)

While I can't say for sure whether Calyx will definitively be dealt with in 7.3, what let Elidibus stick around so long was the mystery and mystique behind the Ascians. For better or worse unveiling the cosmic truths of Shadowbringers and Endwalker basically did in the mystery, and "How does he know all this?" isn't as compelling a question as "What do they know? What do they mean?"

In my opinion anyway.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Which sounds really great, but Calyx hasn't really thought things through at all. He just asserts without evidence or reason that humanity has reached either an evolutionary apex or dead end (it's not clear which), and thus the Endless and other yet-unseen experiments are needed to continue pushing humanity forward. That's not how evolution works at all; besides which, the implication Calyx's negative opinion of biological existence comes from his own frailty in life means that his reasons are less logic and more anger about his own condition. (Different writers are a thing, but a recurring theme in the Hy/Zo saga was that no matter how people tried to "reason" it out, their motivations were ultimately humanistic, self-interested pursuits.)

While I can't say for sure whether Calyx will definitively be dealt with in 7.3, what let Elidibus stick around so long was the mystery and mystique behind the Ascians. For better or worse unveiling the cosmic truths of Shadowbringers and Endwalker basically did in the mystery, and "How does he know all this?" isn't as compelling a question as "What do they know? What do they mean?"

In my opinion anyway.

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Honestly, I think you're looking at Calyx a little simplistically here, on several fronts.

What we know is that this guy's gone transhumanist in response to the overall fragility of life; 'organic bodies suck, let's replace them'. Yes, by definition that is not evolution (although in FFXIV's world I can't say it's without precedent), but that's a pretty common sci-fi angle, that's not a new hole to poke. This is the Borg, this is the Cybermen, this is SHODAN. However, the fact that he's focused on and thinking on the factual and logical level, doesn't mean that the questions about him only exist on that same level.

We know that he has done the grimmest possible math, and that his answer was 'five thousand Endless'. A big appeal there for me is that means his M.O. is entirely different; he can be a lot more calculated, his schemes can be more outwardly complex even if they're often gonna end up in similar explosions because of the nature of the game. But what we don't know is how he came to that conclusion, what variables went into it, or perhaps most importantly, how he came to that question in the first place. After all, there's a few significant steps between 'try to cure an epidemic disease' and 'bodies as a whole are obsolete', you don't just go from one to the other. Hell, they're not even the same academic field.

And then there's the question of... well, his other question. Something important to remember is that while we're locked onto his 'five thousand Endless' plan because it's both directly relevant and the thing we concretely know, we also know from the stinger that in his mind that's solved, and he's on to a nebulous Something Else. We don't know what he's up to, but we know he's got more irons in the fire than we're aware of.

...also, a bit of an aside: my math says he might be a Koana villain, which could be interesting. If Endless Sphene was Wuk Lamat's ideal of 'I'll fight so that my people will know peace' taken to its absolute extreme, Calyx is Koana's belief of 'my people must advance and innovate' taken to its absolute extreme. I don't think they're necessarily gonna get put in opposition, because Calyx seems to be set up to oppose Real Sphene more than anything, but even if not it does a decent show of demonstrating what Calys can bring that's different to villains before him.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

And then there's the question of... well, his other question. Something important to remember is that while we're locked onto his 'five thousand Endless' plan because it's both directly relevant and the thing we concretely know, we also know from the stinger that in his mind that's solved, and he's on to a nebulous Something Else. We don't know what he's up to, but we know he's got more irons in the fire than we're aware of.

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That's probably the main thing that lends credence to Calyx lasting beyond the Alexandria story; I feel like you're right that since he's already solved the problem of flesh, he's looking for another problem to solve. "Five Thousand Endless" is the solution he's proposing to fix the problem of flesh for everyone (LITERALLY everyone), but he clearly doesn't actually CARE about anyone else. If he has his own escape that allows him to stay flesh-free, I think he's not going to really care if the WoL PatroL stops the fusion plot.

I can't shake the sense that Calyx's similarity in appearance to Selh'teus is a very intentional hint at what his importance going forward will be.

Starting to think Calyx was given bad math from somewhere or someone to reach the '5000 Endless' conclusion. Like 'oh yeah, 5000 is totally enough, nothing bad will happen if you dust 5000 people, and turn them into Endless. Pinky promise!'

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Starting to think Calyx was given bad math from somewhere or someone to reach the '5000 Endless' conclusion. Like 'oh yeah, 5000 is totally enough, nothing bad will happen if you dust 5000 people, and turn them into Endless. Pinky promise!'

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Kind of what I'm getting at. The arbitrary 5,000 seems more geared towards fostering envy and resentment in the people than any "hard math" about what an ideal number of Endless would be. Add in the terror attack to further the citizenry's fears of death and "Simulant" Sphene disappearing from the scene (thus creating a lack of clear leadership) and it's fairly certain that Calyx's goal is not simply to create 5,000 Endless out of random Alexandrian citizens, then start doing more Interdimensional Fusions to sustain them. He's playing at something bigger, or half the stuff he's said and done doesn't make a lot of sense.

Or maybe I'm just overthinking things, as I am wont to do.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Kind of what I'm getting at. The arbitrary 5,000 seems more geared towards fostering envy and resentment in the people than any "hard math" about what an ideal number of Endless would be.

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That's my feeling too, plus – at the most pragmatic villain level – if you're reducing the entire human population down to 5000 people forever you probably should be making sure you've got important knowledge/skills covered rather than just taking whoever got in line and/or spooked into registering first.

The whole plan sounded off when Fake Sphene announced it and the impression hasn't improved now.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Starting to think Calyx was given bad math from somewhere or someone to reach the '5000 Endless' conclusion. Like 'oh yeah, 5000 is totally enough, nothing bad will happen if you dust 5000 people, and turn them into Endless. Pinky promise!'

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I guess I'm in the minority here when I think that the far more compelling and chilling option is that the math is right. The math is macabre, morally abhorrent, and emotionally dead, but the working out is solid; that yes, he can keep five thousand Endless indefinitely sustained, if everyone who isn't in that group is therefore treated as expendable. The problem is that he was pushed to do that math at all, not that he got the end number wrong; I kinda don't feel like Calyx, or anyone else, would be behaving differently if that end number was five thousand, five million, or five.

I could see the Maximum Overdrive shift being one of three things here:

• Simple callousness of 'everyone outside the five thousand doesn't matter so they're just a waste of resources',
• Scaring people into signing up, because they made five thousand neo-regulators but it seems not all of those got properly set up,
• Or maybe this is just what the plan looks like, either in creating the five thousand endless or in leading to Calyx's 'second question'.

It's actually a little difficult to figure out the possibilities here, though. I think the key piece of evidence to consider is the disintegrated body Malachite found, but I've got no idea what that means; maybe that is a successful Endless-ing, or maybe that's someone being melted down into base fuel?

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I think the key piece of evidence to consider is the disintegrated body Malachite found, but I've got no idea what that means; maybe that is a successful Endless-ing, or maybe that's someone being melted down into base fuel?

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Yes, that stands out to me – I'd wonder if it's a consequence of extracting "life force" (the power they use to animate the Endless) from the victim, but we had no talk of that happening to the victims of the raid on Tuliyollal.

Another possibility could be that they're not actual people getting killing in these demonstratory attacks, but fakes for some reason, created in a way that makes them crumble back into dust once killed. But what would be the value of that?

Is it dust or ash, or something more exotic like aether-drained matter in the Burn/Empty? Spontaneous disintegration, sped-up decay or deliberate transformation?

It's a puzzle piece but we don't have any of the connecting ones.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Is it dust or ash, or something more exotic like aether-drained matter in the Burn/Empty? Spontaneous disintegration, sped-up decay or deliberate transformation?

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It might be a graphical engine thing or a reused assets thing more than a deliberate choice, but it looked kinda gunky to me. It reads less as a dry pile of ash or dust, and more as, like, a wet sludge.

It doesn't give us more information if it is, but I do have more questions if it's a sludge more than it is an ash pile. That would be a very deliberate pick.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

It might be a graphical engine thing or a reused assets thing more than a deliberate choice, but it looked kinda gunky to me. It reads less as a dry pile of ash or dust, and more as, like, a wet sludge.

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Didn't it just blow away in the wind? That would indicate a dry, fine dust of some sort.

I think the person who got turned to dust was someone wearing a Neo Regulator, and I think that's their sinister purpose: kill the wearer, and send their aether, and memories somewhere to turn them into an Endless. Which is my point of I think there are unforeseen consequences, potentially of the Necron variety of killing 5000 people to turn them into Endless that I'm not sure Calyx has accounted for. I think it's gonna be more like 'oops I made Necron' instead of 'at last, I made Necron!'

I think Calyx's potential miscalculation is gonna come from his overly clinical view of death as just a process, not realizing, not caring that it means something to the people he will to kill to make them Endless.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

I think the person who got turned to dust was someone wearing a Neo Regulator, and I think that's their sinister purpose: kill the wearer, and send their aether, and memories somewhere to turn them into an Endless. Which is my point of I think there are unforeseen consequences, potentially of the Necron variety of killing 5000 people to turn them into Endless that I'm not sure Calyx has accounted for. I think it's gonna be more like 'oops I made Necron' instead of 'at last, I made Necron!'

I think Calyx's potential miscalculation is gonna come from his overly clinical view of death as just a process, not realizing, not caring that it means something to the people he will to kill to make them Endless.

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When I was watching the cutscene, the first thought that crossed my mind about the corpse turning to dust was due to the neo regulator already uploading the person's memories to the cloud. However, since he is still alive and to prevent his memories and existence from being deleted in others' minds then the person has to be reduced to dust before the regulators can finish. As such, what people will see with their eyes is a permanently dead person (Whom they haven't seen before) that they used to know. This new dread of seeing dead people, plus the attacks, will ultimately further people's despair into escaping death.

This is just my interpretation of what happened.

As far as we know this should be ten characters.

recombining souls requires a (mini) calamity, aspecting them in the direction appropriate to the shard. As seen with ardbert and light. Calyx did a big electrope strike with probably lightning element on the player and was a bit surprised it didn’t work.

Since we’ve already had a couple of heritage dungeons, meta knowledge states that the 7.3 dungeon will probably be in living memory, an (admittedly deactivated) electrope place through the electrope rift in the calamity-stricken ninth. I wonder what calyx could possibly try here. Apart from accidentally summoning necron as a primal or big soupy soul or whatever.

This does look like could be potential set up for reattaching another shard, but so did zeromus and the memoriate crystal (more so with hindsight since zeromus punched through the dimension walls and that seems to be the running theme of azem’s magic). [Edit: also I have no idea who if anyone would have the wol soul, maybe outis do he can have yet another death scene]

Also still hoping that m11 is the underbomber and the wol is the only person not in on the joke. Two child geniuses in one patch seems a lot, but if calyx is a fabled figure, nor-black-cat-nor-wicked-thunder could be riffing on that for the alexandrians entertainment.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

recombining souls requires a (mini) calamity, aspecting them in the direction appropriate to the shard. As seen with ardbert and light.

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Where are you getting this from? The only thing we can say for certain about merging with Ardbert is that it was triggered by touching him. We did it once earlier by accident and pulled away, though I can't recall what point in the story that happened.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Where are you getting this from? The only thing we can say for certain about merging with Ardbert is that it was triggered by touching him. We did it once earlier by accident and pulled away, though I can't recall what point in the story that happened.

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I am reasonably confident that it was after we started eating the lightwardens. I want to say it was after holminster switch, but I can’t check at the moment. If soul recombination just requires the soul to be sloshing around in reasonable proximity to the other bit, that has pretty large implications with Alexandria.

As souls recombine automatically upon shard recombination/calamity, I don’t think we have evidence either way besides that - none of the scions have increased soul density as of their soul trip to the first, although there’s no guarantee that their counterparts exist/ed and were shared the first life stream with them for any duration. Similarly with voidsent, would the reaper pact not put the two entities into close enough contact to fuse? If the ee3 reaper avatar shard speculation is way off base then it would be pretty unlikely for a reaper to find their voidsent counterpart by happenstance.

Given what we’ve seen it requires less hoop jumping to conclude some degree of alignment is required. I don’t know if the zodiark restoration project information would apply here too or if that is unique to those circumstances.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

If soul recombination just requires the soul to be sloshing around in reasonable proximity to the other bit, that has pretty large implications with Alexandria.

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There's no "sloshing around in reasonable proximity" involved. We spent plenty of time standing within a few yalms of Ardbert with no effect, even at the height of being Light-aspected, and it did absolutely nothing until we made physical contact.

I don't see what particular implications this should have for Alexandria unless someone happens to come into contact with or possession of their other shard-soul by chance.

Plenty of alexandrians died (again), alexandria is still on the source. They will have ended up in the main lifestream along with quite a few unsundered that were in zodiark. The time bubble will probably stop anything coming of it though.

If it’s purely physical contact then why did nothing happen in 3.4? He was already without his real body and there was a whole instanced duty where the wol punched him until alisae charged up the interactable text.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Plenty of alexandrians died (again), alexandria is still on the source. They will have ended up in the main lifestream along with quite a few unsundered that were in zodiark. The time bubble will probably stop anything coming of it though.

If it’s purely physical contact then why did nothing happen in 3.4? He was already without his real body and there was a whole instanced duty where the wol punched him until alisae charged up the interactable text.

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Have you considered that maybe it happened in that final moment because it was voluntary? That Ardbert willingly gave his (after)life to give us strength in our time of greatest need, which is why our soul got amped up at that specific moment and not before?

Because that seems like the most likely in-universe-scientific reason for why that happened at that particular point... and by extension, would suggest that Alexandrian souls going to the Aetherial Sea probably wouldn't be doing the same very often.

If it’s voluntary then why does everyone on the source automatically get bumped up 1/14th during the 7th calamity then?
Are you discounting the player overflowing with light, the aspect of the scheduled 8th calamity during this process as nothing but coincidence?

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I'd like to add that if I'm not mistaken. There's a line that mentions he was severely sick from birth and didn't have much time to live. As such, I believe physically he died during his teen years and is the reason why he look very young and childlike. He's probably the same age of Alphinaud/Alisaie prior to his death.

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This takes me back to a comment I made in another (since derailed) thread in response to someone saying that Calyx likely has a tragic backstory that hasn't been fully explored yet.

I thought it noteworthy that the Endless from Living Memory based their visual appearance on the happiest moment of their lives; it seems to me that, judging by his appearance and the facts you've mentioned, Calyx doesn't have a 'happiest moment in his life' to base his appearance on.