The 7.2 Frontline changes are EXCELLENT

PVP is still an unbalance trash that's heavily influence by heavy RNG; players who does the bare minimum/no effort, playing w/ netflix running in the background, cheaters, etc.

Right, and even with Rampart letting some people tank ungodly amounts of damage, it just means damage amps (from role actions or base kits) are getting more love and purpose. Which is great for Sage and kinda Bard, they're more important than ever.

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Originally Posted by USAFJerrySo

PVP is still an unbalance trash that's heavily influence by heavy RNG; players who does the bare minimum/no effort, playing w/ netflix running in the background, cheaters, etc.

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You're talking out of your arse. Or perhaps would you care to elaborate, because as it stands it reads like pure salt.

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Originally Posted by chip793

Hard agree, I only did some yesterday to try new Secure and it's giga fun. Changing it from boring "kill adds mid" to playing DDR WHILE fighting off two alliances was an inspired change and with how it works you're more incentivised to go in which solves the issue people had with being slapped off the cliff by MCH/MNK constantly. The jump pads and on-screen timer completely mitigate the excuse people had for ignoring mid in the old version and the new actions are super fun to use. They cooked with this update for PvP.

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The secure mid is a pvpve objective done well, very fun and diverse. The pads are great to also make the bases feel more interactive at all times.

There are also multiple pve objectives that you can bait to other teams. Haven't tried all combinations but my brother was on drk, pulled a bunch of times and a few pve aoes cleared groups quickly on the few games that we did.

Other times you can also have any combination of 2 people that do dmg sent to one of the circles where meteors fall. Don't even need a drk anymore, people just stack up naturally so there's that without having to coordinate much.

And there's still the good old golfing.

Another observation : shatter is even more garbage than before now, and it was some rotten garbage already. If you're stuck on the pve team you might as well afk, it's a pretty bad experience with the zerg nature of the mode and how everyone gets bh5 in the pvp teams. Feels like there kinda is no in-between on this map anymore now.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Another observation : shatter is even more garbage than before now, and it was some rotten garbage already. If you're stuck on the pve team you might as well afk, it's a pretty bad experience with the zerg nature of the mode and how everyone gets bh5 in the pvp teams. Feels like there kinda is no in-between on this map anymore now.

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I've only played a handful of matches on Shatter. I so dislike it I'm probably in a poor place to judge if it has become even worse. One thing I did notice in those matches is that a significant fraction of players just did not want to have anything to do with the big ice, unless it was mid and associated with actual PvP.

My guess is this is because people were still trying out the 7.2 actions and other changes. But it was sort of warming to see PvP players give the middle finger to the big ices, which are IMO a key reason the map sucks.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I've only played a handful of matches on Shatter. I so dislike it I'm probably in a poor place to judge if it has become even worse. One thing I did notice in those matches is that a significant fraction of players just did not want to have anything to do with the big ice, unless it was mid and associated with actual PvP.

My guess is this is because people were still trying out the 7.2 actions and other changes. But it was sort of warming to see PvP players give the middle finger to the big ices, which are IMO a key reason the map sucks.

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I'd wager there are more pvp players in fl overall, more so than before 7.2 at least, so it feels much better when you have games with them. But when you get the pve game, man does it suck.

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Originally Posted by St0rmy

How do Healers feel about the role actions? I tried stoneskin my first go but having a shield doesn't feel that impactful but it is probably really hard to gauge the impact it has. Diabrosis seems like it will always be useful. Not too sure about the Haelan one but I don't think I'll be using it.

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Diabrosis is honestly overkill on AST right now, even with it's Epicycle and damage nerf. They're probably going to have to adjust it since the other actions aren't as useful. Stoneskin is completely useless with that 10k shield, it disappears in seconds during skirmishes. I'm unsure about Haelan since the best mitigation is to simply kill the enemy team/prevent them from healing. Might be great if you have a tank with rampart that's able to draw focus, but we already have healing toolkits for that. SGE might benefit from it, but every second healing could be replaced with using your dmg/support skills while insta-casting Diabrosis that has a nice aoe dmg and heal reduction.

New changes are indeed excellent! I have been having a blast playing bravery MCH and smite RPR! The battle-high adjustments, which I was dubious about on paper, actually work very well in practice for generating more battlehigh across the teams, leading to better fights.

Yeah, when we had that queue sync on Wednesday for the new Secure, it really felt like you were getting a battle high level every fight. Maybe more if you got a kill.

Plus it means you don't feel as bad for stealing a kill at BH5 and wasting 10 battle high lol, more time for the rampage

Fast paced battle high promotes stomping, they need to either lower bonuses or completely remove this broken system. Frontline actions are meh, give people more CC options. Melees/tanks as usual immortal unless you focus them with a lot of people, it's stupid. Also either rework pld invuln or change it for frontline specifically. Wotlk priest can mass dispel, ff14 paladin on the other hand can just walk around and grief your team.


But yeah it's thread from premade abuser, ofc he will like more ways to have unfair game.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Fast paced battle high promotes stomping, they need to either lower bonuses or completely remove this broken system. Frontline actions are meh, give people more CC options. Melees/tanks as usual immortal unless you focus them with a lot of people, it's stupid. Also either rework pld invuln or change it for frontline specifically. Wotlk priest can mass dispel, ff14 paladin on the other hand can just walk around and grief your team.


But yeah it's thread from premade abuser, ofc he will like more ways to have unfair game.

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That's some bad take right here. Fast pace doesn't promote stomping since it swings more actually. FL actions are pretty fun. Melee/tanks are ABSOLUTELY not immortal, tf are you on: diabrosis and rampage are everywhere, ranged rack up bh like crazy. They foil quickly. Unless they go rampart in which case you should know better. Pld's lb is fine, git gud, or return to wow, this is nothing alike.

Your whole post reads like you have 0 clue about what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

But yeah it's thread from premade abuser, ofc he will like more ways to have unfair game.

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Sorry, can't hear you from the top of the leaderboard.

But no, earning battle high at a fast pace actually stops snowballing. If a bunch of low battle high group kills a max battle high one, the lower team comes out around BH 2-3, while the max one goes to BH 3. It's more even than ever.

Talking of leaderboards, the Frontline one would actually mean something if it separated light parties and solo players.

Edit: Like it would still be a participation trophy, reflecting SE places engagement over skill.

What would be really useful is if the leaderboard gave win% after a qualifier of ~50 matches, with different leaderboards for solo players and light parties.

But they will never do this because it'll reveal the obvious problem with the mode.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Admittedly, comebacks were a myth already, but yeah, the new BH change has been causing some record clear times I've noticed (at least on Aether) with only Secure being the outlier because of the massive score requirement and even then, it's not hard for the team in 1st to keep it, they just have to hold it longer, which is easy right now when most people don't know how to play the map, can't play it well, or tunnel-vision onto nodes/drones the same way they do ice.

But then maybe that was Square-Enix's intention, to turn Frontlines into quick sessions where you can call GG early and catch up on something else in another monitor, lol.

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It's not the case except for shatter. And shatter should just be erased plain and simple. Admittedly some people achieve way more bh than they should have, but the battles aren't any more one-sided than before. Having a bad team condemns you but it is the same as before pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Talking of leaderboards, the Frontline one would actually mean something if it separated light parties and solo players.

Edit: Like it would still be a participation trophy, reflecting SE places engagement over skill.

What would be really useful is if the leaderboard gave win% after a qualifier of ~50 matches, with different leaderboards for solo players and light parties.

But they will never do this because it'll reveal the obvious problem with the mode.

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Are you referring to FL standings?

I think changing it to % based would not help. Johnny Premader will still top the chart because he and his discord friends played shatter where they got a 80% win rate and didn't pay anything else because it would just drop their ratio. So long as you have groups like that, Standings are and will continue to be a useless metric of anything.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Are you referring to FL standings?

I think changing it to % based would not help. Johnny Premader will still top the chart because he and his discord friends played shatter where they got a 80% win rate and didn't pay anything else because it would just drop their ratio. So long as you have groups like that, Standings are and will continue to be a useless metric of anything.

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FL standings are worthless for multiple reasons, I agree. If the 7.2 meta evolves how I expect, however, and win% could be cited separately for results within and out of a light party, it might shame SQEX into addressing the imbalance.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

FL standings are worthless for multiple reasons, I agree. If the 7.2 meta evolves how I expect, however, and win% could be cited separately for results within and out of a light party, it might shame SQEX into addressing the imbalance.

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Fair point, I support it