Would be cool, plus a better way to inform players of nodes or something to do with the map so that it's easier/clearer to see that kind of information.Quote:
Originally Posted by PvpRaiden
Cut the ability to queue as a group in Frontline
Printable View
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02-15-2025, 10:35 PMSunhwapark
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02-18-2025, 12:50 PMWilford111
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG43f1KkAWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3oSIdIz0Ps
This is blatantly unacceptable. This is not about "skill issue" or whatever. This is about 4-8 people all in their own group ruining Frontline for everyone else. There is a clear difference between your party not being good enough on an individual level, and 8 people who do this all the time, all ganging up and stomping on everyone else.
Does this sort of thing not happen in Japan? It would explain the problem lasting for so long... -
02-18-2025, 01:17 PMAravellThat 1st video is 100% a skill issue. I didn't see any charm, guard break or fear, people just didn't guard and just tried to run out while being dragged around by DRKs. The 2nd video at least has a charm from the DNC to stop people from running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
Also, people have stopped really using this strat in JP FL because it has become a lot more ineffective as people learn how to play around it. It's mostly just SAM/SMN spam on JP nowadays. -
02-18-2025, 04:52 PMIceEyesYou are burying yourself by providing such "proofs".Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
First vid, u play greedy and didnt try preventy heal even yourself, so are you drowning in AoE spam. No guards. No fears. No any counterplay, like spreading to not be pulled. The death of all the players is solely the fault of the players themselves, who are licking the ice afk.
Second vid, same situation, but afk zerg was charmed by aggressive red team what playing with full bh.
This happens even without premades, when many players who are interested in winning, fun are thrown into one team. With premades this happens more often and more effectively. Moreover, most solo players (like me) happily follow premades and because of this, instead of four people with full BH you get half of the red team.
If one team consistently pushing two teams without any resistance, then yes, it is skill issue. Because no one wants to fight the winner.
This is not a problem with premades, but with the overall low quality player pool. And in general. The best way to fight premade is to make your own premade, this has already been mentioned more than once in all topics. -
02-18-2025, 05:21 PMMawlzyI think the primary difference on JP is that you don't have 1/3 of your team doing everything possible to avoid combat. In that sense it's a skill issue, but that isn't going to change on NA/EU while roulette XP is offered and all players are thrown in the same pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
Smaller teams, matchmaking, auto-kick and bans for lethargic players. The matches will only improve when everyone on the field wants to be there. -
02-18-2025, 10:32 PMJuicyHealsPeople In JP actually try in PvP so it's not really a problem there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
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02-19-2025, 12:14 AMDivinemightsI don't need a premade team to kill a tunnel visioned target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
I simply put 5-4-3-2-1-Circle Macro on you and you will be dead
The way you stand is a perfect dummy target for Blue team to use that macro on you (First Video)
Are you going to ask to ban marking next? -
02-19-2025, 01:05 AMMistress_IrikaJapan's games are way different than NA's. Everyone moves as a unit there making games seems more strategic like a chess game. Here? We just create deathballs at objectives whenever we can. Trust me when I say that you don't want some of the Japan players to invade the NA lobbies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
As for your videos, well...they seem too common for me. 1st clip, I think your alliance focused too much on ice and didn't focus on defending themselves. Very common. If this was Onsal I wouldn't be surprised if I catch at least one or 2 people trying to capture the oovoo in a ninja like manner in the middle of the fight. 2nd clip was clear as day. A team of no buffs against a team of BH4s. Seeing how these seems to be from the same game and how Flames have started it's no wonder they decided to let your team get farmed while they try and take ice from behind. -
02-19-2025, 02:54 AMAllenThylYeah, skill issue. Skill in Frontline is more than just the mere ability to press your buttons. Proper positioning is also a skill, Your team went to lick the ice, while the red team was incoming at full force. Half of your team was also skirmishing with blue on the other side. Second, you didn't even really position correctly, when you ran back, you ran into the wall, meaning you didn't even have a proper corridor to retreat despite being a ranged class. Further, knowing when to engage and when to run away is also a skill needed in Frontline. Your team just stood there, continued licking ice, instead of disengaging. The second clip is even worse when it comes to that, because the enemy team was fed with battle high (which increases damage and healing), while your team had basically none, and everyone played like they were the ones with the battle high and number advantage. A team with battle high disadvantage has to play more defensive and choose their battles even more carefully. And that is all on top of your personal mistakes, while your team was already being routed and you were at half health, you STILL spend 2 gcds to damage the ice, instead of healing (didn't even press the button for recuperate) up or using your Astro dash to escape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
Frontline is first and foremost a strategic map mode, not a skirmish simulator. The most important skill is the ability to stay alive, because dead people don't deal dps, don't heal, can't apply pressure on the enemy team, can't cap or defend nodes. You can't be making one strategic mistake after another on top of making gameplay mistakes in battle and then expect to come out of it winning. -
02-19-2025, 03:15 AMCamuiKushiI PVP on Japan and it's far far more savage than this. Those examples are very basic engagements by JP standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
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02-19-2025, 03:27 AMExmoIt doesn't really look like the enemy team in each video was necessarily a premade. In the first video they're pretty scattered, but it looks like they just finished off their crystal so probably had LBs and cooldowns available, so looks like a standard rush. The second video can be attributed to their BH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
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02-19-2025, 05:26 AMAtreusI'm glad everyone else tore those videos apart. Like I watched your whole group do nothing in response to what was happening to them in that first video. One reaper took zero action. No purify, guard, and died with full MP. The other took minor, lethargic action. What the hell is your bard even doing up that close, of course he died. As for you, yeah you were casting Malefic while getting dunked on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
This is pretty normal for Frontline players, but please let's ALL keep talking like premades are ruining the high tier competition. -
02-19-2025, 05:53 AMTofuLoveQuote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
What is blatantly unacceptable to me is coming to forums to complain about gameplay "problems" and not looking at your own gameplay to see faults. Others have said this, it is 100% a skill issue. It absolutely is. Are these people a "premade" or are they just...better because they are pvping? Somebody has to be better in a pvp game.
Truthfully, how much time do you need to react to drk intiating?
You can see them moving towards you with the group behind them from the beginning of that vid, and I swear I would be able to see them from a mile away. Why is your map not open?
You should always be looking at how enemy might potentially engage you.
As a healer rather than spamming malefic, i expected to see macrocosmos or lady thrown out or even a benefic.
Stop being so focussed on the ice... it's painful to watch. -
02-19-2025, 06:24 AMDivinemights
I think it is fair for any individual that complains about premade need to post their own gameplay video first
This is such a waste of time -
02-19-2025, 03:18 PMJokoCGN
still FL is getting worse and worse. it's not about pvp maps/modes over all, it's about players interaction / skill issue. u'd be happy if ur team have about 10/24 peeps doing PvP at all and not just being afk for exp or running 'round like headless chickens not able to use their like 5 buttons.
but let's be real, never gonna change. -
02-19-2025, 06:39 PMAravell
There's no way anything is changing until every player who queues for Frontlines can be made to care about winning. Until then, people will continue to just put in minimal effort because "I hate PvP, I just want the rewards!" or "It's just a game, tryhard!".
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02-19-2025, 08:28 PMMawlzyThis really is the bottom line. And if SE/GMs won't do it through auto-kick mechanisms and bans, players who care need to up the pressure by vote-kicking and reporting lollygaggers and other miscreants. Which is frankly a PITA, but if we don't do it the situation is not going to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravell
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02-19-2025, 08:41 PMMawlzyCredit to your team member in the 2nd video for marking the enemy DRKs. Unfortunately it appeared nobody was taking advantage of that information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
If you're on a team of randos and face two DRK-led premades, you're going to lose. Particularly on Shatter. I've always felt that indicates a flaw in the mode. The fundamental problem is that the entry-level PvP mode in this game matches n00bs with highly-skilled and experienced players, with the nature of LB burst magnifying the skill difference.
If matchmaking is not introduced, the best path forward is to cull those who are not interested in trying. Unfortunately, on Shatter in particular, I suspect this will be a palliative rather than a panacea. Maybe the promised role actions will provide a means to blunt the efficacy of coordinated bursts. Lol. Yeah, right. -
02-21-2025, 01:56 AMRein_eon_OsborneThose were quite painful to watch. Your alliance were tunnel visioning for an ice. Your alliance simply.... stood there obediently. Waiting for something at all hitting them. And by the time that happens, it's usually already too late. Those players who died with 7000+ MP? Yeah... they have no self preservation. Not even guards seen in first vid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
You also died within 8 seconds since after you receive the first damage (from megaflare) and did absolutely nothing to persevere yourself. No guard. No recuperate. No Asp Benefic. No macro.
Second vid feels too short since it doesn't show what happens before they jumped at your alliance but from the looks of it, DRK has been marked. Meaning there's at least 1 person in your alliance who's aware of their threat and made it easier for your alliance to spot them.... to no avail, because amongst those who have died, this piece of information just does not register to them... or rather, glossed over. It's quite likely they pulled off the same 'strat' at your alliance and... what a surprise, it worked.
Just another day in Frontline... apparently, lol. That's how terrible the player quality is.
Kill enemy & don't die = Get BH = Kills/survive easier = Lick ice faster = More Ice for you = Less Ice for them. It's not rocket science. This is skill issue. -
02-21-2025, 09:50 AMFatCatEnjoyer
i like my hard fights but its also incredibly fun to dunk on players like these lmao
edit: seen the video, SKILL ISSUE -
02-21-2025, 10:57 AMAravell
I see, so standing in the danger zone and not doing any of the multiple things that can help you survive a dive and then complaining about premades being OP is considered skillful gameplay, huh? You learn something new everyday, I guess.
The definition of skill seems to change a lot these days. -
02-21-2025, 11:18 AMChrysOCEGaslighting?? You and your team weren't paying attention to your surroundings. It wasn't like the DRK was coming from a blind spot. They literally were running towards that clump of players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
Same with the second video, judging by where the rest of the red players were located. -
02-21-2025, 11:31 AMRein_eon_Osborne
My guy. You're standing for full 8 seconds (can cast 3 malefics back to back yo?) since taking your first damage then instead of doing anything to preserve yourself, you just kept hammering that Fall Malefic---on an ice, while there are enemies roaming around you until your HP drops to 0. If people are truly arguing in bad faith, you're not convincing people with your own video working against your own premise. If this isn't called a 'skill issue', it would be 'attention span issue'. Premade has nothing to do with that.
As for 2nd video, most players that hit the floor in that particular dive died at DRK's Salted Earth center point. The pull snapshot nowadays are pretty slow you can virtually scoot away with normal running speed, especially when one knows when to expect them. This would mean all those people literally did almost nothing to preserve themselves either (because otherwise their dead bodies would look more scattered around the Salted Earth, even with DNC LB on play). On top of having the DRK already marked, this only speaks volume to the alliance's general spatial awareness: not good. -
02-21-2025, 01:15 PMOliviaLugria
Having so much fun watching these videos. This really is an issue of your team valuing hitting ice over staying alive. 10 people in the first video basically on top of each other and then the 2nd got caught by dancer, but the Red team approach was literally straight through mid by the looks of it.
If you want it from the other side:
https://www.twitch.tv/olivialugria/c...f0GYv3HdyPynCj
https://www.twitch.tv/olivialugria/c...RDS4MWwUxfwYR_ -
02-21-2025, 03:43 PMMawlzyIt's actually difficult to see why everyone died in the 2nd video given the beginning of the engagement is missing. But with the DRKs clearly marked, that kind of wipe-out simply doesn't happen if people are looking at their monitor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
I've seen situations like this and actually wondered if the people hacking at the ice were bots. They don't move, guard, or deviate from the ice blapping. Which in a PvP mode isn't going to work out too well. -
02-21-2025, 03:56 PMMawlzyThe double-DRK with well-timed support from DNC et al does present a bit of a challenge, but I agree with you that in the 2nd video far too many people died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
1. You have plenty of time to know red is coming (likely after their ice finished)
2. Failing that you can look at the map.
3. Failing that (if the dots hadn't populated) red is coming across a vast open expanse, and the two DRKs are marked.
4. Half the people who died are ranged! Assuming everything is on CD so no stuns etc can be dropped on the clearly-marked DRKs, just back up! -
02-21-2025, 04:08 PMMawlzyExcellent product placement, honey! And your clip titles are poetry in violent motion.Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaLugria
But to return to our debate of eld, it doesn't appear that the skill floor is rising any, despite your efforts. I still think matchmaking is the best hope to make games competitive/interesting, although from my perspective Shatter is unsalvageable. -
02-21-2025, 04:16 PMAravellI don't think they're bots, they just tunnel hard on ice, and when I say tunnel hard, they tunnel really hard. I've dropped a SGE LB on an ice before and walked away with a kill, so people don't even notice anything when hitting ice, pressing recuperate and guard is the last thing on their mind, there's a reason people call them ice lickers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mawlzy
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02-21-2025, 04:42 PMMawlzyYou may well be right. In which case I regard it as lethargic play and thus a ToS violation. "Protect yourself at all times" is a universal principle in PvP from boxing to video games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravell
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02-21-2025, 05:15 PMOliviaLugriaIt is... a very slow process. My main complaint from back then was that people were not improving at a fast enough rate. I do hope the new guide spreads out more. There's more and more being added to it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mawlzy
I'm fine if they added matchmaking if they also added incentives for improvement, but we can't rely on them to change that nor can we rely on them to "ban premades." -
02-21-2025, 05:22 PMMawlzyI'm wondering if there are enough players who are somewhat competent that matchmaking itself would produce quality matches? Like I can't really imagine what incentives for improvement would work, beyond making the mode more interesting and responsive.Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaLugria
Same with your guide. It will help those who want to improve, particularly if they prefer party queueing. But so long as the player pool is diluted by people who don't like PvP and/or make no effort in matches, I can't see the situation changing. -
02-21-2025, 06:01 PMOliviaLugriaI agree, the only people improving at PvP are the ones who “want” to do so. There needs to be a “need” to improve. There’s a few ways the developers could do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mawlzy
1. Increase the rewards for 1st, decrease the rewards for 2nd and 3rd. For your daily roulette, getting first is only like 10% more exp than getting 2nd or 3rd. If it was something like 30% or 40% better, then people would be invested in winning.
2. Additional bonuses based on performance is something I’ve advocated for in the past. If the chat log notified you of exp gain when you get a kill or assist or a capture people will chase that dopamine and improve.
3. I would like to add a shorter “premium” track for the PvP series that only tracked “winning experience. It could have past rewards or some rare dye loot boxes. Nice things, but also not mandatory. You could go that route and have the dyeable versions of gear on this track or alt colored mounts similar to how savage works, but people would probably complain to much l.
4. I still want roulettes for casual CC and RW. If a person only logs in and does roulettes, they end up with 15min of PvP over a 3 to 4 hour play session and that’s just not enough time to form an opinion. (It’s also the only one if you want to succeed at you can’t snooze through) -
02-21-2025, 06:05 PMOliviaLugria
But as I said… not anything we can do about that… only hope that the competitive spirit prevails and lethargic play becomes scorned
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02-21-2025, 06:09 PMMawlzyYeah I guess carrots are the traditional FF14 method of attempting to improve things, but my feeling is we need a stick at this point. Or a ban hammer. The only time I enjoy people playing a game badly is when I'm sitting across from them at a poker table.Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaLugria
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02-21-2025, 10:35 PMDivinemightsGaslighting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
Is that how you takes on all criticisms?
Please keep in mind, you brought this up openly for everyone to see, we didn't ask you to provide a video.
When you provide video trying to convince people about your argument you are open yourself for criticsms.
Process criticism positively and you will improving because "PvP skill" is also about you paying attention to your surroundings
Both videos are showing you and your team are not paying attention to 3rd team. -
02-21-2025, 10:50 PMMistress_IrikaI think this was a fair critique by everyone although there were a couple that were being harsh, but I'll mind my own business. Apparently, premades are going to continue to ruin the game in many eyes despite what your gameplay shows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilford111
You don't know how on point you are here. I think with how the complaining is right now, that is exactly where we are heading. All RNG everywhere except where objectives are going to spawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrysOCE
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02-22-2025, 01:14 AMTofuLoveI think these are all great points.Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaLugria
I already made a thread about reward change/personal performance, so that's a hard agree, and "Premium" track record for additional rewards is a good idea.
Additional roulettes for additional pvp exposure would be great!
Come on Square Enix....make it happen : pray : -
02-22-2025, 02:44 AMExmoThis is everything bad with shatter and premades and macros.Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaLugria
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02-22-2025, 04:11 AMCamuiKushiYou're right. The WHM on the enemy did their best to stun the DRK dive and yet their team still stood their and took it. Very shameful display on those people letting themselves be killed so easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exmo
I guarantee there was someone spamming alert macros to spread out/avoid the attack with sound effects that were unheeded. I've been on the other side of those DRK dives. I've spammed attack avoidance macros. People who don't care will stand there and die without doing a damn thing.
So yes, I agree. This video demonstrates the biggest problem with premades and macros: people doing nothing to stop themselves from dying. -
02-22-2025, 04:21 AMExmoHi, I don't engage with bad faith actors, goodbye!Quote:
Originally Posted by CamuiKushi