Just Nerf Picto

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Going off of the interview, it didn't sound like PCT was ever supposed to be dominating the DPS charts:

"If you want to have a cleaner experience when going through a rotation, you can use the Pictomancer," he says, since if you're needing to resurrect people all the time or playing a high skill job, "you probably won't be able to clear the content so quickly."

What's much more likely is that the job design team is struggling to figure out how their motif design has contributed to PCT's complete dominance. Hanlon's razor applies here.

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They also kind of over-value dps raise in a lot of content. Both Anabasios and M4 had many points where a death was a wipe, much less a death that a SMN or RDM should get. (Generally you want your Healers to raise if they can so that your damage classes don't need to interrupt doing their primary job)

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Originally Posted by Jamini

Those types of fights were tried in Mid-Endwalker (P8S) and early Dawntrail (M2S and M2N). Criterion is also loaded with fights like those you describe as well as difficult add fights.

All of them have had extremely low engagement and are in general despised by the community at large.

Unfortunately, the devs are trying to make things their players enjoy rather than doubling down on past failures.

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dog vs snake is not remotely an example of fights with dynamic elements.

Where is the prey markers? Where is the untelegraphed tankbusters? Where is the mechanics that are intended to be solved by physical ranged superior movement? Where is the reactive healing? Where is the mechanics that have to be solved in literally any other way than “go stand here and take 90% of your health as damage”? Where outside of ultimate is mechanics that are carried across phases? Where are the adds? (Actual add phases like T11)

P8 is the same garbage slop we have gotten for years but just has the non distinction of one path having superior buff alignment which is conveniently the only thing that matters because of these fight designs

And as far as I was aware alarm pheromones was regarded as a good mechanic, it was just frustrating in PF (like say light rampart)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

dog vs snake is not remotely an example of fights with dynamic elements.

Where is the prey markers? Where is the untelegraphed tankbusters? Where is the mechanics that are intended to be solved by physical ranged superior movement? Where is the reactive healing? Where is the mechanics that have to be solved in literally any other way than “go stand here and take 90% of your health as damage”? Where outside of ultimate is mechanics that are carried across phases? Where are the adds? (Actual add phases like T11)

P8 is the same garbage slop we have gotten for years but just has the non distinction of one path having superior buff alignment which is conveniently the only thing that matters because of these fight designs

And as far as I was aware alarm pheromones was regarded as a good mechanic, it was just frustrating in PF (like say light rampart)

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Untelegraphed busters were and are largely despised. I had no end of complaints on them running a MINE static through Shiva.

Prey markers as well were, as far as I understand, not well received? UwU has them.

Physical ranged superior movement is a bad joke as people get better at the mechanical part of the game. Even on the least mobile healer (Scholar) it's not difficult to have near full mobility with proper slide casting. Hell, Unirionically BRD and MCH struggle to fake melee in certain fights (M3S from the current tier) because they simply lack a gapcloser.

Reactive healing would be wonderful in my own opinion, but a lot of players can't even handle topping people up a ranged player standing out for mechanics were the three mile wide healing bubbles can't reach. (This happened just last night. Died in an EE2 stack despite the party position being correct, but I wasn't topped off. It was a definite "WTF healer?" moment.) I can see reluctance if only because more reactive healing may make current healers quit healing.

And no. Alarm Pheromones 1 is considered literally the worst mechanic in the tier. M2S is also handily the most skipped fight (even over M1S) because of Alarm 1. The amount of people that specifically say "Eff the Bee" is extremely high.

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Originally Posted by Jamini

Untelegraphed busters were and are largely despised. I had no end of complaints on them running a MINE static through Shiva.

Prey markers as well were, as far as I understand, not well received? UwU has them.

Physical ranged superior movement is a bad joke as people get better at the mechanical part of the game. Even on the least mobile healer (Scholar) it's not difficult to have near full mobility with proper slide casting. Hell, Unirionically BRD and MCH struggle to fake melee in certain fights (M3S from the current tier) because they simply lack a gapcloser.

Reactive healing would be wonderful in my own opinion, but a lot of players can't even handle topping people up a ranged player standing out for mechanics were the three mile wide healing bubbles can't reach. (This happened just last night. Died in an EE2 stack despite the party position being correct, but I wasn't topped off. It was a definite "WTF healer?" moment.) I can see reluctance if only because more reactive healing may make current healers quit healing.

And no. Alarm Pheromones 1 is considered literally the worst mechanic in the tier. M2S is also handily the most skipped fight (even over M1S) because of Alarm 1. The amount of people that specifically say "Eff the Bee" is extremely high.

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I mean who says untelegraphed busters and prey markers are bad, they are the cornerstone of reactive healing when it actually existed in this game. Mit plans used to go down to the GCD to account for these types of busters and it actually challenged tank kits and challenges the healers to react on the fly. It was the only weakness SCH ever had. Do we need another 10 years of SCH being the most overpowered monster of a job because people care more about planning out offensive GCD’s down to the second

Physical ranged movement is not utilised in a useful way, remember o11, it specifically has a mechanic that was intended to have the phys ranged bait the missles using their superior movement to kite them around the arena. And we solved it by having the PLD stand in the corner and hallowed ground. Or the renalds in T7. We need more of that. We need reasons for different jobs to have different niches

The “I had a bad experience” should never preclude mechanical design. We’ve all had bad experiences with every role

As for alarm that seems to be a difference in personal experience as I’ve heard nothing but praise for alarm

I'm ready to unsubscribe the game if they won't do anything about Pictomancer... It is so unbalanced, that I'm no longer willing to play with this class in party and since it's almost in every party, I do not enjoy playing with people anymore, so actually... offline games feels more attractive than this unbalanced shit

Bad design of new jobs, we see them with every new expansion... and it is bad that they did not do good QA on it before releasing it.

New jobs should only be attractive in the way of doing things new ways, not just a massive DPS boost compared to anything else, It would be appropiate for SE to take note it and maybe put the job on hold for being able to enter higher playgrounds from eg. EX trials to Ultimate Raids, untill it is balanced out.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

As for alarm that seems to be a difference in personal experience as I’ve heard nothing but praise for alarm

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I've seen posts here at least get very mad over it. Needing to react to a mechanic as its happening instead of going to an assigned spot might interrupt the almighty uptime, and that's what really matters.

Just make other job having downtime tool so they can hit harder when the boss appears. As for the balance of this expansion. LMAO picto is breaking all the old jobs due how booty the design is for them. The balance team do not know how to upgrade jobs properly it's shows with FRU.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I've seen posts here at least get very mad over it. Needing to react to a mechanic as its happening instead of going to an assigned spot might interrupt the almighty uptime, and that's what really matters.

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As a melee DPS player, Alarm pheromones 1 initially was also infuriating to me, I was dying or eating Damage Down all the time during first weeks. This mechanic felt way too random and is just so out of the loop.

But after dying to it practicing it a handful of times, it actually became one of my favourites. Bob and weaving around the boss, checking for arrows and building a path in your brain, running in and out to steal another GCD and narrow escape an AoE felt rewarding. Endwalker really spoiled players with its 100% uptime, huh.

Alternatively, when tired, I just chuck spears at her from safe distance. Yeah, that ended up in a gray number on the forbidden site. That probably means, I am not a human being anymore. The horror...

Ultimate PFs are a polarizing experience atm because of picto
i know it isnt for everyone but for the people who actually want to do ultimates in PF, the idea that if you dont have a picto, you might actually have to not make mistakes and potentially even pot to meet enrages depending on your party composition is demoralizing when you want to play a job thats on the lower end of dps in the current standings, you feel like you're inconveniencing everyone, even when its especially not your fault because they made their own mistakes. "if we had a picto, we still could've hit the next phase even with that death".

smn and mch might as well form a duo with a picto because people will leave your party or just lock you out of their pf. even vpr is also seeing some discrimination because of its under-performance in the short uptime, resulting in people generously allowing smn/mch in at the cost of locking vpr out in the standard double melee comps.
its at least seen as a red flag by the community if someone is trying to pf an ultimate and is scared of having to actually perform instead of get carried by an over-performing job through a check they normally wouldn't meet because of not being optimized or making a couple mistakes, but the fact that this is common in any degree is just simply unhealthy for the game, and makes me question the reasoning behind not nerfing picto in the first place. Upsetting people who don't know how to maximize their jobs potential anyway? the people it would actually effect in content the least? the people who should be the least concerned with a damage nerf to any job let alone a blatantly overpowered one? People who would always pick what was best anyway? It just doesn't track.
Do they really think the casual players, the ones who are going to rp venues, doing roulettes every day, and spamming treasure maps, will really be so upset about a picto nerf they'll just quit the game because the job they liked the most got hit with a nerf, when over half of them don't even do research on how to do a proper opener in the first place, and they won't notice the difference in the content they do even if they did? Isn't that kind of insulting to the average player to think of them as that irrational or easy to upset, even if it were true?

It might have made sense if they were just afraid of nerfing it to the point that it would be excluded from content, but now in doing nothing its creating challenges for other jobs at the top end, and creates another slew of questions like if they're so worried about sub-optimal players being upset about how their job performs why are they so averse to creating actual rotation learning tools? If they're content with them being blissfully ignorant instead, then it must follow that they have to think a patch to adjust things would either go just as well ignored or that the most minor of adjustments to absolutely anything would set them off just as much anyway, so why ever change anything?

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Originally Posted by hynaku

How about they just leave the game alone and quit making it worse than already is.

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How is leaving it alone going to fix what's bad about it XD

They should just get rid of potency and make all the skills do the same damage. All the mages do the same damage, all the tanks have the same mitigation, all the melees do the same damage, all the ranged do the same damage, all the healers heal the same amount of health.

Then it just becomes a matter of pick your flavor.

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Originally Posted by Gaiinahat

They should just get rid of potency and make all the skills do the same damage. All the mages do the same damage, all the tanks have the same mitigation, all the melees do the same damage, all the ranged do the same damage, all the healers heal the same amount of health.

Then it just becomes a matter of pick your flavor.

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https://i.imgur.com/VVahm2M.png

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Originally Posted by Gaiinahat

They should just get rid of potency and make all the skills do the same damage. All the mages do the same damage, all the tanks have the same mitigation, all the melees do the same damage, all the ranged do the same damage, all the healers heal the same amount of health.

Then it just becomes a matter of pick your flavor.

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Already done with healers and tanks.

I know the majority of the concern is Savages and Ultimates, and that is a big concern.

But I don't do those. What pisses me off about PCT, is how irrelevant it's making every other content in the game too. No matter if it's dungeons, raids, trials, or alliance raids. The difference between having a PCT or not is huge in how many mechanics get skipped.

Older content is already getting trivialized, the last thing we need is everything becoming Thordan. Cape Westwind was made into a solo duty due to how pathetic it was, Picto is making a lot of it go the same direction.

PCT potencies are so wild, me and a friend did some maths to see 'how much potency can we trim off of the Muses/Mog/Madeen, while still keeping the 'full uptime' rotation the same, so that the job doesn't gain as much in downtimes'

We found that you could safely remove 200 potency, TWO HUNDRED, from each Muse/Mog/Madeen, and the rotation would still function as is (we were comparing the PPS of painting a Muse in uptime vs a Subtractive combo). All you'd need to do, is create a new OGCD that can be used after Star Prism, call it Prismatic Starburst or something, and give it 1200p, as the new source of that moved potency. In full uptime situations, this would actually INcrease PCT's damage, as the OGCD (which can be thought of as the 6 instances of 200 potency we trimmed) would be in raidbuffs every time, whereas some of the Muses and their 200p, would fall outside of raidbuffs currently

I don't know what SE were thinking when they made this Job, how can you remove 200p from a skill and it's still ahead of the next best damage option, absolutely mindboggling

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Originally Posted by Kanehon

Older content is already getting trivialized, the last thing we need is everything becoming Thordan. Cape Westwind was made into a solo duty due to how pathetic it was, Picto is making a lot of it go the same direction.

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I wonder what happens if you go into a 24man like Void Ark as a premade with as many PCT as you can (eg 15 at least, maybe more if the game lets you swap out Healer/Tank slots for more of them)? I wonder if it'd end up like those videos of '19 Arcane Mages vs Mythic whoever' in WOW, where the AMs all do their full burst window and the fight ends before they have to do the 'conserve' window

I am shocked that even 7.15 didn't bring any job changes either buffs to everyone except PCT, or a nerf to PCT.

Chaotic will be broken by tons of PCT at parties will probably skip using Limit Breaks. 5 X 3 PCTs in Chaotic i bet will happen and be the optimal setup xD

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Originally Posted by Altera

I am shocked that even 7.15 didn't bring any job changes either buffs to everyone except PCT, or a nerf to PCT.

Chaotic will be broken by tons of PCT at parties will probably skip using Limit Breaks. 5 X 3 PCTs in Chaotic i bet will happen and be the optimal setup xD

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Rarely do mid patch job changes unless its something they already planned and just couldnt get it out in time or something on a job that is entirely broken/not working as intended...

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Rarely do mid patch job changes unless its something they already planned and just couldnt get it out in time or something on a job that is entirely broken/not working as intended...

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Picto is entirely broken, I was hoping for at least a Note or something to adress the picto problem but if picto is indeed intended to be this broken then this just makes everything way worst. Guess you can't play any other caster now and what ppl said it's right, throw a picto in any content not just high end content and will nuke anything on its way

Given how quickly they changed VPR and the fact that they "buffed" the other dps "to meet" PCT, I think it's safe to say that PCT is absolutely intended to outshine all the other casters.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

Given how quickly they changed VPR and the fact that they "buffed" the other dps "to meet" PCT, I think it's safe to say that PCT is absolutely intended to outshine all the other casters.

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Sadly yeah. They've made sure they've buffed it beyond normal to make sure people choose it given they were probably afraid the noises and overall aesthetics wouldn't appeal to many players. To me I absolutely hate the noise effects on spells and the effects. But the overpoweredness has made me go from being ok with it, to hating the job.

I've always hated overpowered classes/specs/jobs in any mmorpgs I've played. But in those games, the Devs were not afraid to nerf if. I chose Unholy DK at work launch and saw it was OP, but the Devs nerfed it very quickly xD

The dev team is incredibly wary of direct nerfs in general, and this has been going on for years now. The only time they'll dare do it is between expansions when players are unable to easily pick up on it.

The other issue is that they equate popularity with a successful job design. Bottom line is that you can make any job popular, no matter how poorly designed, simply by making it a mandatory pick. What they don't realize is that they ultimately drive players out of the game who want to play alternatives to that job. It's simply the wrong metric to assess job success. PCT's current design is detrimental to the game.

Oh no. PCT is unbalanced for one niche fight! FRU! Lets gut the class instead of change the Ultimate or just accept BLM isn't top dog!!

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The dev team is incredibly wary of direct nerfs in general, and this has been going on for years now. The only time they'll dare do it is between expansions when players are unable to easily pick up on it.

The other issue is that they equate popularity with a successful job design. Bottom line is that you can make any job popular, no matter how poorly designed, simply by making it a mandatory pick. What they don't realize is that they ultimately drive players out of the game who want to play alternatives to that job. It's simply the wrong metric to assess job success. PCT's current design is detrimental to the game.

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I don't think it's necessarily PCT's current design, because you're conflating Job Design with Damage Metrics here, Lyth.

Just to play devil's advocate, PCT's Job Design is actually one of the best we've had in a while; do I agree it should have a little bit of everything? No. Should it be taxed for those things? 100% Yes.

As we've seen in the interview, they didn't want to make PCT look bad in raids. We already gave them a lot of feedback saying that PCT is broken in End-Game Content back before Arcadion even released in NORMAL MODE! The problem is not the Job Design, but the numbers that create this black hole. This shows more that PCT is heavily overtuned for all fights, rather than the job being overpowered in terms of job design on its own. This, again, points the finger at the Devs when they admitted that they undertuned Light-Heavyweight without considering how PCT may overperform.

They have ONE Major Patch to turn Dawntrail around before Casters become dead in the water in favor of OOPS! All PCT! groups that replace their Ranged for doubling up on a job. This was prevalent back during E4S when Ranged were underperforming by a whole 2-3% compared to the likes of BLM, which was a powerhouse in high-end when played at Max.

It also does not help that this community as a whole seeks the high-end trends that influencers and WF Raiders set without considering player skill.

Why Nerf Picto? Why not Buff everyone else?

I got no horse in this race and iffin yer really sweating the difference you can always just play Pictomancer yourself.

This is one of the first times one job was significantly better than all the others but it's very similar to and reminds me of the conversations people had about the strength of Warrior or for a time strength of Summoner.

Is it really that big of a deal? You can play all jobs on one character. Luckily Picto requires almost no real time investment to get up and running because of its starting level... you could be using it right now if all you care about is the path of least resistance.

It's almost an irresistibly least resistible Job not to use it for that purpose.

If one Job is better and you're sweaty enough to push for the top you should go with the best choice.
If you really like your Job you should just play your Job no matter what people tell you

For all we know Pictomancer could be what the benchmark for future 8.0 jobs will be like. So it might just be better for the time being. That's why it's having an easier time in comparison outside of raw numbers.

If I was a sweaty gamer or even a mildly greasy one, I'd pick picto just so I could be better than everyone.

I really like Picto as it is it's fun to play and it's cute. So for me I play Picto just because I like how it looks. It's not my main I only have it at like 97 cuz I only play whitemage but I enjoy playing it when I do and I'd play it even if it was the worst cuz it feels fun. It's the first caster dps job that felt good to me. So I don't wanna see how it plays get ruined cuz it makes people envious.

My only thing is from a Final Fantasy Lore perspective - I'd say Black Mage should always be top caster DPS. Same as Samurai should always be top Melee DPS.

But even then, folk still play Ninja because they love the job. So in conclusion.

Love wins overall! >:0

lmao one group trying to get job deleted and another trying to get it nerfed so many stupid people trying to destroy this new job.

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Originally Posted by george357

lmao one group trying to get job deleted and another trying to get it nerfed so many stupid people trying to destroy this new job.

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except that Picto really need it's potency to be nerfed.

All this does is show the way casters are treated vs melee. Caster has two distinct roles roles built in. As long as SMN/RDM has Rez and as long as Rez is used as a balancing tool, there’s always going to be an issue. Any caster that isn’t BLM should be dealing significantly less damage than any melee job. Right? FRU is a single fight, and honestly is more of the issue than the job. If you balance it around FRU, it’ll be weak in all other content. The only other option is to destroy its job identity, which would be tragic if they go that route. People hate PCT because it’s a perfectly designed job.

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Originally Posted by Nadda

Why Nerf Picto? Why not Buff everyone else?

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They've done that at least twice so far. It resulted in DPS checks becoming very easy even for the day 1 bleeding edge raiders because the encounters weren't tuned around those potency buffs, and PCT is still ahead in the content where it matters most.

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Originally Posted by Nadda

Why Nerf Picto? Why not Buff everyone else?

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They can do that, but only up to a point. It exacerbates a couple other problems. First, increasing the potencies of various abilities can greatly upset the balance in lower level content, and while that content mostly "doesn't matter," it does impact the experience of new players when story trials just get obliterated before any mechanics happen. And there are old Ultimates.

The other problem is that they seemingly can't decide how they want to balance some roles vs. the others. RDM, SMN, and the Ranged jobs all pay a hefty DPS tax for their support abilities and I know players who favor those jobs are already unhappy with that. That will only get worse as SE isn't going to buff those jobs as much as their precious BLM and melees. They're also unlikely to buff tank damage- what happens when the DPS do 5x or 10x more damage than tanks? Will "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity" need to be added to every button a tank has?

Inadvertently making one slightly OP job and then buffing others to match it just creates a never ending cycle. It doesn't seem sustainable to me.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

They can do that, but only up to a point. It exacerbates a couple other problems. First, increasing the potencies of various abilities can greatly upset the balance in lower level content, and while that content mostly "doesn't matter," it does impact the experience of new players when story trials just get obliterated before any mechanics happen. And there are old Ultimates.

The other problem is that they seemingly can't decide how they want to balance some roles vs. the others. RDM, SMN, and the Ranged jobs all pay a hefty DPS tax for their support abilities and I know players who favor those jobs are already unhappy with that. That will only get worse as SE isn't going to buff those jobs as much as their precious BLM and melees. They're also unlikely to buff tank damage- what happens when the DPS do 5x or 10x more damage than tanks? Will "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity" need to be added to every button a tank has?

Inadvertently making one slightly OP job and then buffing others to match it just creates a never ending cycle. It doesn't seem sustainable to me.

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Tank agro isn’t a concern here in any way, a tank generates 10* the agro of a non tank and 20* the agro of a heal. A “increased enmity” move generates 15* the ago of a non tank

Tanks who are unable to hold agro against any class with an inbuilt 10* bonus while only doing 70% damage is simply a bad tank

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Originally Posted by Nadda

If you really like your Job you should just play your Job no matter what people tell you.

Love wins overall! >:0

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As most statics doing prog on hardcore content we always check our damage to improve etc is not something I generally care about even in week 1 savage, but this is the first time I go into ultimate with a "raider" mindset rather than a casual funsies mindset that I usually go to. My damage as RDM would parse 95 -100 in our best pulls and die in enrage, while as PCT I parse a low gray number and barely know the rotation and very rarely see the enrage (most of the time when I die). Ive been doing some dailies and some other content as PCT (to improve and memorize my rotation) and that same overpower feeling still reflects in every content I jump into, unlike some ppl think that this is only a problem in FRU well in my experience they are completely wrong cuz PCT nukes dungeon bosses, trials etc in any low or current level content. I even tried the WAR-PCT duo in treasure maps as someone mentioned here and I was surprised how easy it was. I do agree that PCT is the best job design we ever had (and wish all the jobs had that treatment as well) but doesn't justify the overtune in their abilities that makes any other dps job meaningless (not only casters). Why nerf picto? cuz they said they would rather buff all the other dps jobs instead but I highly doubt they would retune all the other dungeons, alliances or trials as well either high end or casual.

All I can think of is when back in EW the alliance raid were such a joke and most of the content was a walking simulator to the point of skipping entire mechs without much effort.

Imagine being a new player going into Aglaia and never find out that Nald Thal has a "balance" mech and a cutscene after that just because boss died in a snap. I don't wanna go back to that boring experience of EW just because they think is better to buff all the jobs rather than nerf one job. Thats not a good casual experience for me.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Tank agro isn’t a concern here in any way, a tank generates 10* the agro of a non tank and 20* the agro of a heal. A “increased enmity” move generates 15* the ago of a non tank

Tanks who are unable to hold agro against any class with an inbuilt 10* bonus while only doing 70% damage is simply a bad tank

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15* seems like a lot until you realize your AoE is 100 potency and then you have the overeager picto dropping 3300 potency attacks in 3 seconds.

That said you're still a bad tank if that matters.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

15* seems like a lot until you realize your AoE is 100 potency and then you have the overeager picto dropping 3300 potency attacks in 3 seconds.

That said you're still a bad tank if that matters.

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I'm not saying it's a problem now, but it may become a problem if they fall down a never ending spiral of buffing every DPS to catch up to whatever the developer pet DPS was last patch

(also it clearly was a problem in the very recent past since they had to add +enmity to the tank AoE due to pictos in dungeons)

You know, one of the first thing Gacha Player ask when they want to try a Gacha Game released a while ago : How is the Powercreep?
Powercreep is considered a bad thing, and it is.

Asking for Powercreep to fixing an OP Class is just asking for killing the game on the long run.

Nerfing only the class it's far better than Powercreep.... You'll make all the people playing the job only for the big number (and not because they like it) cry because they won't be OP anymore but, it's far better than letting all the players playing the other class getting more and more angry....

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

I'm not saying it's a problem now, but it may become a problem if they fall down a never ending spiral of buffing every DPS to catch up to whatever the developer pet DPS was last patch

(also it clearly was a problem in the very recent past since they had to add +enmity to the tank AoE due to pictos in dungeons)

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It wasn’t a problem it was just lazy tanks who didn’t understand classes that could front load burst, it was exactly the same as SMN and DNC in 6.x if you used tech step or ark mohn.

It’s got little to nothing to do with PCT and everything to do with squares never ending goal of baby proofing the tank role

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Originally Posted by Lorika

You know, one of the first thing Gacha Player ask when they want to try a Gacha Game released a while ago : How is the Powercreep?
Powercreep is considered a bad thing, and it is.

Asking for Powercreep to fixing an OP Class is just asking for killing the game on the long run.

Nerfing only the class it's far better than Powercreep.... You'll make all the people playing the job only for the big number (and not because they like it) cry because they won't be OP anymore but, it's far better than letting all the players playing the other class getting more and more angry....

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So, should they also nerf DRG/MNK? As after all SAM is greedy DPS and is not beating those outright. Guess we need to drop quite a few jobs to be in line with the logic. Only Viper, Samurai, and Black Mage deserve the crown of the top DPS and everything else should just a substitute? Granted if your argument is purely based on "people who play it will cry about it not being OP" that is what we are seeing with BLM about PCT right now. How many complaints are about "how BLM is being overshadowed by PCT." this is same argument as mentioned.

As said, the median increase is at best 3K DPS . Yea, sure its about 1 million HP in an overall fight in FRU only. (Key point, as nowhere else this exists.). But given all encounters outside of FRU, or any multi-downtime fights which is not current content, PCT loses out to, DRG, VPR, MNK, BLM and that data can be substantiated. There is clear empirical evidence of it that is readily available. Would a job that is so vastly overpowered LOSE in uptime fights to other jobs? Granted that all depends on the player able to generate said results, has the gear, so on. Though, also in that same data exists proof PCT can do worse than tank or healer damage. Remember, the peak capability is not done by everyone. There is a massive gap in what can be done, to even what is done on the average that can be seen.

I just rest the point, as truly it is way overblown to a point beyond belief. It is working as intended, do not stress.

So now that NIN (and SCH) are as far ahead in CAR as PCT is in FRU for their unique advantage of their raid buff being a debuff on the boss is it time to call for NIN nerfs or is this different somehow

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Originally Posted by Nasigno

So, should they also nerf DRG/MNK? As after all SAM is greedy DPS and is not beating those outright. Guess we need to drop quite a few jobs to be in line with the logic. Only Viper, Samurai, and Black Mage deserve the crown of the top DPS and everything else should just a substitute? Granted if your argument is purely based on "people who play it will cry about it not being OP" that is what we are seeing with BLM about PCT right now. How many complaints are about "how BLM is being overshadowed by PCT." this is same argument as mentioned.

As said, the median increase is at best 3K DPS . Yea, sure its about 1 million HP in an overall fight in FRU only. (Key point, as nowhere else this exists.). But given all encounters outside of FRU, or any multi-downtime fights which is not current content, PCT loses out to, DRG, VPR, MNK, BLM and that data can be substantiated. There is clear empirical evidence of it that is readily available. Would a job that is so vastly overpowered LOSE in uptime fights to other jobs? Granted that all depends on the player able to generate said results, has the gear, so on. Though, also in that same data exists proof PCT can do worse than tank or healer damage. Remember, the peak capability is not done by everyone. There is a massive gap in what can be done, to even what is done on the average that can be seen.

I just rest the point, as truly it is way overblown to a point beyond belief. It is working as intended, do not stress.

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Unbalance and Powercreep are two different things.
Unbalance can be fixed little by little.... Powercreep cannot.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

So now that NIN (and SCH) are as far ahead in CAR as PCT is in FRU for their unique advantage of their raid buff being a debuff on the boss is it time to call for NIN nerfs or is this different somehow

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Are NIN + SCH presence making a DPS check / enrage in Chaotic inconsequential by magnitudes like PCT in FRU? I get where the question is coming from, but I don't think it can be compared like this. From what I heard you don't really skip anything by having them present + the penalties for getting hit in general aren't like Ultimates anyways.