The future of F2P

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Originally Posted by Akujin

On a somewhat related topic.. more or less. How would the community feel about there being an 'enhanced' subscription? The meaning behind that, if/when they release a XIV test server, such as what XI has currently (I dont know how the actual usage works there, havent paid enough attention) would you all be willing to pay an additional, oh lets say.. 5$ to your normal subscription to have access to the test server, to try out new areas, instances and skills, etc before they make it released to the general public who remain on the normal subscription plans? Just curious.

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Pay... to test someone else's software, so they can sell it with less bugs and make more money? I just heard a bunch of game testers cry.

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Originally Posted by Obavijest

I swear to god if FFXIV goes free to play I'm unsubscribing.

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As would I

The best option in my eyes is to keep this game P2P and just add some optional paid extra's, such as Server Transfers, Character recustomization, Name changes?

I honestly think the real movement in gaming will be B2P with a mostly Cosmetic/convienance store. then B2P Expansions etc. Cash up front! Trickle in till next expansion = More cash up front then more trickle in.

The usual issue with F2P is the general low quality of game in part due to having to wait till the cash shop pays out. Which means moving a large amount of "needed" items. Coupled with the "free" expansions (patches) that don't pay out either.

Buy and sub seems to be fading in part because F2P can be a low cost "cash grab" (somewhat opinion there ^^ ) But also because with a monthly sub after buying the box expectations per dollar are high. And it can lock some people into a single MMO, or make people feel like they HAVE to get their moneys worth because they are paying.

The other is Strait Sub with no Box price. which i would say worked fairly well with Eve-online. They offered expansions free, but the game's skill system worked on a time based skill up, which helped keep people paying for a longer term.

Part of the reason i think B2P with consmetic shop is likely to be in the end, the most favored option is because you bypass many of the total issues with the other billing methods while still generating income. Box sales will = upfront money, which means if you have a % playerloss, you still have their cash.

And a cosmetic cash shop because alot of people like to customize their characters, and some will spend extra (some will spend alot extra) on little things. But this also bypasses some of the $ = advantages issues.

if it's F2P then pay more for:

1. Bigger bags or more retainers.
2. More character slots.
3. Free company services:
a. Airship
b. Recruitment banners around the city

I hope they don't touch anything else though.

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Originally Posted by Ganbachi

if it's F2P then pay more for:

1. Bigger bags or more retainers.
2. More character slots.
3. Free company services:
a. Airship
b. Recruitment banners around the city

I hope they don't touch anything else though.

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F2P would never stop there. You get income from Shop sales and possibly ads. I honestly don't belive for a second that list would bring in the cash they would want.

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Originally Posted by Obavijest

I swear to god if FFXIV goes free to play I'm unsubscribing.

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yep, this.

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Originally Posted by Viritess

F2P would never stop there. You get income from Shop sales and possibly ads. I honestly don't belive for a second that list would bring in the cash they would want.

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I just realized that lol. Another idea I think would be:

The game could be F2P till level 50 and with the main story line only but monthly subscription for the endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Ganbachi

I just realized that lol. Another idea I think would be:

The game could be F2P till level 50 and with the main story line only but monthly subscription for the endgame content.

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so we have to pay for all the good thing? those sparky bad ass gear?
yea.. nope

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Originally Posted by Akujin

would you all be willing to pay an additional, oh lets say.. 5$ to your normal subscription

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Personally, I wouldn't.
Not that I'm against the idea, but there's just a limit to how much money I can spend on a video game.


Now to all the people who say F2P would be great to draw new players in:
There are many other ways of doing that. SE could for example provide a 14 days-F2P-trial like any other P2P MMO does and like they do themselves with FFXI.
It's a great way to figure out if you like the game or not, even if you are limited to 2 characters, 100k Gil, etc.
Most people aren't against F2P trials, they just don't want permanent F2P :)

The people threatening to quit over it going free to play think that the game will be any different if it is? lol

It will be the same game regardless, so whether I pay $10 a month to play or $10 a month on things that make me look cool it will make little difference to me. To be honest, it doesn't matter which way they go. If people are going to buy the game, they'll have a free month to begin with. If they like the game, then they'll subscribe. If the game is free to play, they'll decide to spend money on vanity items. The option is also there if people decide to not buy those optional items.

I couldn't give a shit which way they go, I'm playing anyway, and I bet everyone here would too.

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Originally Posted by rina_inverse

so we have to pay for all the good thing? those sparky bad ass gear?
yea.. nope

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I'm also against the idea but we're already paying subscription for endgame, story, server storage and community tools together. SE could give up the main story only to increase the number of players to try the game like any FF game and maybe subscribing them if they like the endgame and challenge.

I would just have to put in my opinion. Free to play is a lot like playing WoW in that it is all about INSTANT GRATIFICATION. I played FFXI because it was a great game, not because i could be the "best NA legit." I played FFXIV because i saw the potential and now i play because it is a great game. there is no real instant gratification, i dont just get what i want because i bribed someone, i had to spend many hours getting where i am and i feel a sense of achievement for doing so. free to play and WoW (yes i know it isnt free to play) are all about giving you some candy, recreational drugs and flashing lights. anyone can be awesome in about a month and a half, and you dont even have to worry about getting a bad name for yourself, you can just pay to rename.

FFXIV is, for the most part, a game for the more mature player base, as was FFXI (prior to abyssea) and as such, subscriptions are not only tolerated, but often looked to as a way to keep out a small portion of the "less desireable" pseudo-gamers (ie. 8 year olds in phantasy star online screaming about their owl rappee) from screaming your ears off.

i would not want to see FFXIV go F2P, but i wouldnt mind seeing the addition of "if you play FFXI or FFXIV, keep the other's subscription valid for an additional $1-5 a month." since im not going to be playing both simultaneously.

While i am against XIV going to F2P model, mostly because i dont want to deal with kids (immature adults is different case), people that have been saying that F2P model means pay to win are also pretty ignorant, that might be the case 10 years ago, but most of F2P games these days only offers vanity items, cosmetics, pretty mounts etc. Nothing game breaking.

Stereotyping is terrible.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

While i am against XIV going to F2P model, mostly because i dont want to deal with kids (immature adults is different case), people that have been saying that F2P model means pay to win are also pretty ignorant, that might be the case 10 years ago, but most of F2P games these days only offers vanity items, cosmetics, pretty mounts etc. Nothing game breaking.

Stereotyping is terrible.

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You are doing your own version of being ignorant. Most F2P games include P2W features, whether that be varied potions or exp boosts. These games would not be making money if the only thing people could pay to do was change their hairstyles, buy mounts without special benefits, or aesthetic wings.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

The people threatening to quit over it going free to play think that the game will be any different if it is? lol

It will be the same game regardless, so whether I pay $10 a month to play or $10 a month on things that make me look cool it will make little difference to me. To be honest, it doesn't matter which way they go. If people are going to buy the game, they'll have a free month to begin with. If they like the game, then they'll subscribe. If the game is free to play, they'll decide to spend money on vanity items. The option is also there if people decide to not buy those optional items.

I couldn't give a shit which way they go, I'm playing anyway, and I bet everyone here would too.

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Except that its not only vanity slots. Game companies goals are to bring in more than the monthly sub of a P2P game. It will cost more and have P2W features. The community will suffer. Many current FF14 players WILL leave whether they are NA, Eur and JP, because of these factors. So you probably should "give a shit".

And its a sad day when people are willing to whiteknight F2P, in order to whiteknight SE and FF14.


However, if 2.0 is horrible. I do hope the game goes F2P, another blow to SE's pride, that might wake them up to the fact that they need to figure their shit out.

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Originally Posted by Tricksy

You are doing your own version of being ignorant. Most F2P games include P2W features, whether that be varied potions or exp boosts. These games would not be making money if the only thing people could pay to do was change their hairstyles, buy mounts without special benefits, or aesthetic wings.

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I dont see that as definition of P2W, how is someone levelling faster makes them an auto-winner? I can understand that it might be unfair if it was increased droprate potions/increase melding rates, but that kind of things never appears these days in a good F2Ps. (ex. Guild Wars 2)

The way i see exp scrolls is the same as rested exp, it's useful for casuals players that wants to catch up faster.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I dont see that as definition of P2W, how is someone levelling faster makes them an auto-winner? I can understand that it might be unfair if it was increased droprate potions/increase melding rates, but that kind of things never appears these days in a good F2Ps. (ex. Guild Wars 2)

The way i see exp scrolls is the same as rested exp, it's useful for casuals players that wants to catch up faster.

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P2W= Using real life money to gain an unfair advantage over those who choose to not pay.

Exp scrolls, HP/MP potions, etc

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

While i am against XIV going to F2P model, mostly because i dont want to deal with kids (immature adults is different case), people that have been saying that F2P model means pay to win are also pretty ignorant, that might be the case 10 years ago, but most of F2P games these days only offers vanity items, cosmetics, pretty mounts etc. Nothing game breaking.

Stereotyping is terrible.

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How many MMOs of "these days" have you actually played? Not many I'd imagine because I can load up at least 4 new Korean MMOs that sells you anything from vanity items to tickets to access high level dungeons.

P2P games that go F2P is a sign of the game failing. Companies do it to flood their servers with all the F2P crowd giving the game high player base numbers which make the game more attractive to new players. Thus bringing in more potential for item mall sales or premium membership fee's without putting the game company in any position of having to provide more content. P2P models do have to constantly provide more content because that is what the customer is paying for if they dont they loose their player base. F2P models do not have to constantly update the game with more content because they dont owe the playerbase anything because the game is free.

I prefer the ever expanding always updating with quality content P2P model over the small low quaility far and few inbetween updates of a F2P model.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

How many MMOs of "these days" have you actually played? Not many I'd imagine because I can load up at least 4 new Korean MMOs that sells you anything from vanity items to tickets to access high level dungeons.

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I don't play unknown F2P games from Korea, so you might be right. Last F2P MMOs i played have comes from Aeriagames and somethingspark, which you know english speakers actually plays, and that was where my opinion was based from. They do offer very fair item malls selections and most of'em are sellables so it is accessible to everyone even if they do not want to spend real money.

There is a segment of people out there who are interested in the game as a FINAL FANTASY game, but are not willing to schill out the monthly fee.

reasons for not wanting to pay a monthly fee are

• Does not think the monthly fee is a good entertainment value
• is not comfortable with paying more than the box for a game.
• Cannot afford to do so

Most of these guys probably never payed a subscription fee in their lives, And I don't blame them when you look at what 'free' gets. It is pretty much on par with p2p service. If p2p really wants to compete they have to offer a service that is immediately more apparent. Obviously we know what the difference is between f2p and p2p. I think the best way is for the crew to spike the game with significant and meaningful content (story and battle) on a much higher rate than now and higher than any other MMO. When people play ARR, they should be getting the feeling that their money spent and time spent is twice as worth it as a netflix subscription.

On another note, its pretty funny to see those people who say they will leave the game if it goes f2p. Leave to where? Elder scrolls online? The myriad of classic pre-wow mmo's? Guild Wars 2? oh.. of course. The Secret World :3. when you look at things objectively, both models affect the design of the content. One is determined to make you play for as long as they can, and the other is designed to squeeze a couple of dimes out of you every once in a while before you take a break. the only way to get a pure experience is to not play an mmo.

I will leave if it goes f2p. The community is sour enough, adding the f2p players will just make it rotten.

gawd, these threads just keep popping up... I'm sorry but free to play isn't for Final Fantasy, it would do more damage then good to these types of games. However, if the free to play doesn't have any impact on your paying customers (seperate server with level cap or something along the lines) I'm 100% for that.

I'm still under the belief that Final Fantasy players aren't your average run of the mill WoW/SW:TOR/GW player.

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Originally Posted by Zhinse

On another note, its pretty funny to see those people who say they will leave the game if it goes f2p. Leave to where? Elder scrolls online? The myriad of classic pre-wow mmo's? Guild Wars 2? oh.. of course. The Secret World :3. when you look at things objectively, both models affect the design of the content. One is determined to make you play for as long as they can, and the other is designed to squeeze a couple of dimes out of you every once in a while before you take a break. the only way to get a pure experience is to not play an mmo.

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Id just stop playing MMO's until I heard of something that is post release and is considered decent. Since most MMOs are pretty vapid and shitty lately.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

I will leave if it goes f2p. The community is sour enough, adding the f2p players will just make it rotten.

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Sweet as a peach here!

I don't believe in a game where people benefit from bigger pocket books rather than effort and skill.

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Originally Posted by Zhinse

There is a segment of people out there who are interested in the game as a FINAL FANTASY game, but are not willing to schill out the monthly fee.

reasons for not wanting to pay a monthly fee are

• Does not think the monthly fee is a good entertainment value
• is not comfortable with paying more than the box for a game.
• Cannot afford to do so

Most of these guys probably never payed a subscription fee in their lives, And I don't blame them when you look at what 'free' gets. It is pretty much on par with p2p service. If p2p really wants to compete they have to offer a service that is immediately more apparent. Obviously we know what the difference is between f2p and p2p. I think the best way is for the crew to spike the game with significant and meaningful content (story and battle) on a much higher rate than now and higher than any other MMO. When people play ARR, they should be getting the feeling that their money spent and time spent is twice as worth it as a netflix subscription.

On another note, its pretty funny to see those people who say they will leave the game if it goes f2p. Leave to where? Elder scrolls online? The myriad of classic pre-wow mmo's? Guild Wars 2? oh.. of course. The Secret World :3. when you look at things objectively, both models affect the design of the content. One is determined to make you play for as long as they can, and the other is designed to squeeze a couple of dimes out of you every once in a while before you take a break. the only way to get a pure experience is to not play an mmo.

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this is the biggest load of crap I have ever read

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Originally Posted by Krausus

this is the biggest load of crap I have ever read

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I know hehe, read the whole thread if you have not already. Its full of such stuff.

Does not matter what you people think. F2P is a better business model for everyone. People who play more will likely pay more. People whom leave the game don't have to worry about deactivating their account. And people who return won't have to worry about reactivating their account and being charged just to check the game out again. Players also won't have to worry about not being able to login to their character simply because of an unexpected payment issue that prevents the account from being renewed.

It's just a fairer, better way of charging for an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Does not matter what you people think. F2P is a better business model for everyone. People who play more will likely pay more. People whom leave the game don't have to worry about deactivating their account. And people who return won't have to worry about reactivating their account and being charged just to check the game out again. Players also won't have to worry about not being able to login to their character simply because of an unexpected payment issue that prevents the account from being renewed.

It's just a fairer, better way of charging for an MMO.

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F2P MMOs also tend to be lower in quality and rarely get tangible content -- a lot of F2P MMOs also charge you to access the "good stuff" as people call it.

So it's better in terms of making money, sure -- but is it better for the game itself? P2P MMOs have to keep a standard, F2P has as much freedom as they want to "slack" on delivering good content since you're not paying, they don't really have to offer you much beyond cash shop updates.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Does not matter what you people think. F2P is a better business model for everyone. People who play more will likely pay more. People whom leave the game don't have to worry about deactivating their account. And people who return won't have to worry about reactivating their account and being charged just to check the game out again. Players also won't have to worry about not being able to login to their character simply because of an unexpected payment issue that prevents the account from being renewed.

It's just a fairer, better way of charging for an MMO.

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It's a smart buisness move, sure... but the community can & will suffer when there is no bar for entry. As far as people returning, MMOs should offer a return option (friend sends you a code, you reactivate for 2 weeks or something similar)

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Does not matter what you people think. F2P is a better business model for everyone. People who play more will likely pay more. People whom leave the game don't have to worry about deactivating their account. And people who return won't have to worry about reactivating their account and being charged just to check the game out again. Players also won't have to worry about not being able to login to their character simply because of an unexpected payment issue that prevents the account from being renewed.

It's just a fairer, better way of charging for an MMO.

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doesnt matter what you think, F2P model games are crap full of a crap community, full of low security, low support, low content updates, the only thing good about a F2P game is that its free. Guess what else is free.....AIDS.

I really hate F2P, and wish FFXIV stay P2P forever.

But if it just had to be F2P, I wouldnt choose niether of what OP listed.

I'd go with cash shop but not vanity one. Cash shop will have upgrade and melding increase... I like my vanity to be free XO
looks > stats

I hate when all the cool looking stuff are cash shop... Will probably quit lol

F2P is actually poor wording.
It should be referred to as P2W.

You can play for free but unless you plan to constantly go through those scams to get credits, or you have no life and grind for items to sell, there is very little that can be accomplished.

There was little suprise that the game like the recent star wars went F2P. They had tons of hype and got tons of people to buy the box, then once people played it they realized once you get by all the wow factor there is not much left. So they let the game die or F2P to save it.

The nice things about F2P is you can put out lots of little updates which 90% of them are what gamble box or what else you can upgrade for cash. Have little support or service cost and rake it in.

P2P that stay P2P are typically higher quality, and cheaper if you play often. Of course not cheaper if you only play quarterly.

I cant see how F2P will damage FF14 more than it has damaged itself lol

F2P opens up the game to a massive playerbase that wouldnt or couldnt hop on board in a P2P environment. The appropriate comparison is to look at Free Realms or DCUO on PS3.

1million players buying something from a cash shop for 1.99 once a month is more money than 100k players paying a $15 subscription once a month. And if it went anything like LOTRO, people are going to browse the shop each week not once a month...

Then again, i'm scared of F2P lol I like my consistency in P2P, having everyone on an equal footing content wise. Not like early 11 days when some doofus didnt even have RoZ so they couldnt get to Altepa lol

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Originally Posted by cloverkitty

F2P is actually poor wording.
It should be referred to as P2W.

You can play for free but unless you plan to constantly go through those scams to get credits, or you have no life and grind for items to sell, there is very little that can be accomplished.

There was little suprise that the game like the recent star wars went F2P. They had tons of hype and got tons of people to buy the box, then once people played it they realized once you get by all the wow factor there is not much left. So they let the game die or F2P to save it.

The nice things about F2P is you can put out lots of little updates which 90% of them are what gamble box or what else you can upgrade for cash. Have little support or service cost and rake it in.

P2P that stay P2P are typically higher quality, and cheaper if you play often. Of course not cheaper if you only play quarterly.

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^ This is how I feel about it as well.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of this issue, games are going toward the free to play model and it's already been the standard in Asia for years. It's proven to boost subscriber base and profits, so from a business stand point it's good.
If 2.0 doesn't get solid subscriber base (which is tough in today's market with all the free games) then ff14 will go f2p or shutdown.

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Originally Posted by Awdogsgo2heaven

Regardless of what anyone thinks of this issue, games are going toward the free to play model and it's already been the standard in Asia for years. It's proven to boost subscriber base and profits, so from a business stand point it's good.

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Games aren't going F2P by choice -- many have to go F2P to sustain itself after heavy losses most of the time. It's a standard in Asia because of not only how the economy is, but because MMOs are pushed out on an almost yearly basis in asia -- you can't expect people to keep active subs for 100s of MMOs that come out every few years.

There is only 1 thing that FFXIV 2.0 can do wrong to lose my sub. And that is going F2P.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

I think FFXIV:ARR will fare just fine under a subscription model. I just wanted to say that first and foremost.

With the recent news of SWtor going F2P this fall, the release of GW2 at the end of the month and many of the previous gen MMO going F2P (Aion, L2, Lotr:0). Sub based games are going the way of the dodo.

If FFXIV were to adopt a F2P model in the future, how would you want it to be implemented?

Cash Shop offering vanity items

Episode type content offering side quests or new scenarios

DLC offering new dungeons

Freemium - Subs are given full access to all DLC, while non-subs must purchase a la carte.

I'm not saying I want FFXIV to go F2P. I like sub games where the population as a whole is on the same page. No one is left out because they didn't buy the DLC or uber geared from cash shop purchases.

Is it inevitable for F2P to work it's way in FFXIV at some point? If so how would you want it to be implemented?

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I don't think it matters what they go with... I'll keep paying money to experience all that is XIV and it's future.

I do like the P2P system better than others though. Despite the hundreds of dollars sunk into an account over a long time, I don't feel it's any different from having a gym membership and only going 3-4 times a week instead of every morning and afternoon (oh how I wish I had time).

Going F2P means the company is saying: Our game is not good enough for someone to pay 10$/month to play. Our game is so weak in content and services that we can not output the equivalent enjoyment every year one would get from buying two games.

I'm not sure I would want to invest time in a game that the company itself has deemed not worthy of 10$/month.

(Note: If someone can not afford 10$/month, then they have far more important things to worry about then what to play. And that someone would not be a lucrative source of income for SE would it go F2P anyways).