#WukLamatMustDie

It's insane that some individuals think spending 30+ hours with Wuk Lamat in a full expansion that resolved the whole succession trial, put her on the throne and restored peace to Tural by defeating her brother and Sphene, is not enough to judge the character.

The game made me care more about Otis, as well as Yaana and her sisters, after only interacting with them for a few minutes.

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

You are soft.

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This is the best post on this forum. Square, please frame it for us and make it a furniture item. ;D
I have no comments on wuk lamat. She's clearly the centerpiece of this particular story and I don't mind.
(At least the first half, she becomes very secondary after that, Erenville, Sphene and Cachiua take over)
Think she'll fade a little bit into obscurity like Ryne moving forwards.
Story is like... 1% of my gameplay on this game, and the actual gameplay sure is a step up.
I didn't feel like any character was overbearing, and man, Erenville sure got a lot of character growth and I've become very fond of him.
So happy he played such a huge part. #PositiveThoughts :D

I feel like this wuk lamat criticism is a bandwagon and a major part of this is being influenced by others, cause she sounded like a lot of decent but not great JRPG protags.
Nowhere near as grossly offensive as people make her to be. Maybe am wrong.

I don’t think she should die, but she definitely needs to be stuck under paperwork or whatever the equivalent is for her Dawnservant and Guardianship/Child King Overseer duties. Just have her too busy juggling two kingdoms and if we have to see her it’s super brief and is not a cutscene.

I agree 100% on this because I can't stand her. I wish could put her on spaceship and leave her on a distant star.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

Statement:2. False Marketing
We were told that Dawntrail would be a low stakes adventure with rivalry with the Scions, but we ended up worshiping Wuk Lamat throughout the whole experience instead. The Scions are used for the Dawntrail Trailer, but they barely show up and barely have lines. Erenville and Krile were supposed to have a focused feature in this expansion but we only had very few scenes and lines from them, with Wuk Lamat attached to most of those scenes. We were told that we'd have a vacation, but we ended up watching Wuk Lamat deal with a world-ending threat, Sphene. We also embarked on an adventure that we've already seen, Stormblood and Shadowbringers. [4]
[5]

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+10.

I just arrived a Solution Nine and 100% of my experience was

-Talk to Wuk Lamat
-Move to X
-Watch Cutscene
-Talk to Y
-Watch Cutscene
-Watch another Cutscene
-Wait here comes ANOTHER cutscene.
-Move to B
-Talk to Wuk Lamat
-Watch Cutscene
-Talk to Wuk Lamat again.
-Another Cutscene.
-You play now as a Wuk Lamat
-Watch Cutscene.
-Talk with Wuk Lamat.
-Repeat.

I hate this MSQ more than anything else released by SE in the past decade. There is absolutely NOTHING to do or interact or even KILL, WOL could not even be present in the whole story, and nothing would change.

Wuk Lamat is a Primal that has tempered everyone including those with Echo like us somehow. This is evidenced by how everyone behaves weirdly around her and also automatically loves her

We must kill Wuk Lamat to end her evil plans to mind control the whole world. Please make the patch quests this way

#WukLamatMustDie

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Originally Posted by 1313

seems you guys still havent figured out that the story hasnt been told yet so any opinions you have about it dont really matter til it has been told
judging a book by its cover, or maybe its first chapter, is folly
smarten up buttercup :)

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Quick, someone get the copium away from this guy! He's huffed so much of it he's going into copium overload!

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

What make her bad her character or her voice actress

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https://64.media.tumblr.com/c655d111...270b8d6c63.gif

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Originally Posted by Barachim

https://i.imgur.com/AiFwMXR.gif

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POV: You're Wuk Lamat.

https://c.tenor.com/928QsDxmJ0YAAAAd/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

They're not going to kill her off, and doing so because 7.0 had some writing issues would be idiotic. Don't worry, once we leave Tural behind Wuk Lamat will likely be relegated to small intermittent cameos like other leaders and not a major focus. Come 8.0 you won't be seeing much of her. But they're not going to rewrite the expansion or suddenly kill off its main character in some desperate attempt to over correct.

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It sure would be funny in the moment though. The memes and cheering just miiiiiiiiight be worth the risk. ;o

Picture this: absent from the entire Dawntrail MSQ, the Eorzean powers suddenly turn their eyes to Tural's vast resources. A shrewd Garlean manages to quietly make the journey to Tural, wherein they sow discontent against the entire idea of the Dawnservant, and in particular against the idea of ordained monarchy. Quietly, this saboteur convinces the great powers of the benefit of a divided and headless Tural, with the Syndicate taking particular interest in how easy it would be to remotely domineer a country that had so-recently experienced such upheaval: offering steady security and a place in the wider world of nations, in exchange for commodities rights, would become alluring indeed...

And so the saboteur would engineer the assassination of the Dawnservants under the banner of liberation and freedom, and instill a clash among the various tribes (who were previously mollified by eating tacos, I guess) in order to draw in interlocutors of the great powers - most trying to play off their interest in Tural's mineral wealth, with Ala Mhigo uniquely intervening to assist the Turalis in resisting foreign, imperial ambitions. The Eorzean Alliance starts bristling at one another over this particular topic: and it is perfect indeed, our saboteur seeking to wrest Garlemald from occupation and to free it from the attention of the great powers.

...Of course, you're not getting this. I really hope you all enjoy the power of friendship and how it can stop ennui embodied in the form of a dubiously-legal female character with a dumb name again.

I really doubt things would go that smoothly for that plot.

For starters Garlemald is already being given more autonomy, that was a bit point in the 6.5 quests. The alliance is winding down its involvement in the area, so there's no need for a grand conspiracy to distract them.

Second, it seems very unlikely to me that the Syndicate would get wide support in Tural. Outside a VERY BRIEF period after Zoraal Ja's attack on Tuliloyol the continent has enjoyed the better part of a century of peace, and 7.0 ended with that peace reestablished. Galool Ja Ja and the current Dawnservants are generally liked by the people. The scene is not ripe for this kind of turn in public opinion.

Maybe something like this could have worked in the base expansion, with a larger political intrigue. But we're coming off 7.0. With just the post patches to tell a followup story about Tural before we go somewehre else in 8.0. And if they follow the non EW expansion forumula, probably only three patches of heavy on Tural before we start building to 8.0. There isn't time to pull off this intricate of a story even if they wanted to flip the script.

That would also be throwing away any and all development the starting city states have had in treating beast tribes like actual people and working with them in good faith to just decide 'hey let's go be colonizers now.'

This feels less like a feasible outcome based in the game lore and more 'I didn't like DT so I want to see this place burned to the ground.'

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

POV: You're Wuk Lamat.

https://c.tenor.com/928QsDxmJ0YAAAAd/tenor.gif

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She got tongue-tied introducing herself and accidentally said "melon".

Doubt they'll kill her, but I won't mind if she's getting the aymeric treatment. Forever trapped inside her palace, and whenever Tural makes appearance in the msq, it's Koana who's there as representative.

One can only wish

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Doubt they'll kill her, but I won't mind if she's getting the aymeric treatment. Forever trapped inside her palace, and whenever Tural makes appearance in the msq, it's Koana who's there as representative.

One can only wish

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I suspect she'll be like other city state leaders.

She'll most likely have a part to play in the patch series, but I have a feeling it may be more about Galool Ja and him coming into his own as a ruler than about Wuk Lamat directly, but she'll very likely still play a role in that story. At least up to 7.3, and then if they go back to the pre EW formula 7.4 and 7.5 will likely be more about setting up the next expansion than continuing the Tural story.

But by 8.0, she'll be like Lyse or Ryne. Show up briefly if the MSQ sends us back to Tural, but not really having an important role in anything. If we ever get another 'Garlean Invasion' like event where she'd probably show up for that sort of thing, but not have a huge personal role. More things like how Lyse played a part in the Garlean invasion but didn't have the spotlight. Or how we talk to Ryne when we go back to the First, but she isn't a huge focus and just briefly catching up with her.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4tvAjX5ACPo/h...4aYQFeEHK6LkCQ

Our WoLs have lots of experience slaying Primals. Just give us the quest to kill the orange cat Primal and be done with it.

Dumb and cringe. At this point it's just a meme to hate on her.



If you don't like Wuk Lamat you either:

Are playing withe the EN voices (why??) (I'll be honest, I truly believe that if everyone were forced to play on JP voices they'd have a much higher opinion of her).



or


Don't like JRPGs in general.


Wuk is not a bad character. She is typical enough of most JP games in that she's a sprightly, upbeat, cheerful and positive cute tomboy. The only good point that was in the original post was that yes, sometimes our friends focus a bit too much on Wuk (the example with y'shtola calling Wuk instead of us was a good one). After a decade of entirety focus on us, it's not a bad thing for us to take a slightly more backseat to another character, where we acted closer to a mentor than a fully main character.

Wuk isn’t a bad character in the same sense that Spot from such thrilling works as See Spot Run isn’t a bad character: you can’t be a bad character if you have no character at all.
The problem is that Hiroi tries to insist through his writing that she is a character, with actual characterization beyond simply being a paper-thin mouthpiece for whatever moralization he wanted to put to pen that day. Despite him insisting these things, they fail to be true.
Also, seeing someone say Wuk took a backseat in the second arc of the expansion was truly one of the baitposts of all time. Quality stuff, that. You’re not getting a quote from me, but know that I recognize the effort.

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Originally Posted by Superasil

Dumb and cringe. At this point it's just a meme to hate on her.



If you don't like Wuk Lamat you either:

Are playing withe the EN voices (why??) (I'll be honest, I truly believe that if everyone were forced to play on JP voices they'd have a much higher opinion of her).



or


Don't like JRPGs in general.


Wuk is not a bad character. She is typical enough of most JP games in that she's a sprightly, upbeat, cheerful and positive cute tomboy. The only good point that was in the original post was that yes, sometimes our friends focus a bit too much on Wuk (the example with y'shtola calling Wuk instead of us was a good one). After a decade of entirety focus on us, it's not a bad thing for us to take a slightly more backseat to another character, where we acted closer to a mentor than a fully main character.

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1) She was forced on us more than any NPC in the history of FF. The English voices only added pee ontop of a poop cake.

2) Been playing JRPG's since the 80's. The vast majority of them don't have you insert her as the leader of a country, nor do they have everyone around her become morons while praising how great and wonderful and perfect she is while all of her solutions are stupid and shouldn't work even by JRPG standards except for the writers needing her to never be wrong.

Here's the real reason. The writing was crap, and her character was crap. /story

Lamaty Lamaty ... more like ... lame as tea !!!! "get out"

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

What make her bad her character or her voice actress

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The way she is written and how she was ways forced to be the center of attention even when she isn't physically present. (Hell StB's, which people dislike didn't have omnipresence and knows when to dip out)
I don't mind stepping back, chilling and mentoring this new OC but we didnt do any actual mentoring nor have any agency, we're like bystanders watching a runaway train.

The EN dub just makes it more unbearable with how subpar it is. The dub might as well be the icing on a shitty cake.

Honestly, the screaming in small caps and totally unstrained voice while lifiting a giant robot arm and the stealing the spotlight of our only agency is the epitome of both writing and dub problems.

Umms, Mao still likes Lady Fuzzy Cat. It was borings quests whats made Mao unhappys, nots Lady Fuzzy Cat.

Jesus, they're starting to do a reference sheet for their god damn theses, now.

I just don't understand spending that amount of energy to say you hate something as insignificant as a video game. I know that we live in a time of overstimulation that people actively seek out and do things they hate just so they feel something, but hells.

Imagine that instead of feeling all that wrath and anger, to the point that you actually write a god damn disotation, that you just... walk away?

Yes yes. I hear the excuses. But my friends! If they're really your friends, they wouldnt want you to be miserable. They'd still chat with you on Discord, and play other games with you. If they don't, well... I'd have to say they they weren't really friends, bud. Maybe co-workers

Or But my house! There are many games that allow to own a fake home, with far greater control over them Most even have a one time fee as opposed to a monthly fee. If it's truly what's keeping here, then you aren't nearly miserable enough to warrant writing *gestures at OP* this.

Crap like this why the official forums are a joke. A meme. The friggin shadowed lands in the Lion King to the community at large.

She should just get the Lyse treatment. She’s had her time in the MSQ, now it’s time for the other characters to shine.

Agreed there was way to much Voke Lamat in the story, the line where she screams SPHEEEEEEENE!!! still haunts me to this day...

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Originally Posted by RaideDuku

Jesus, they're starting to do a reference sheet for their god damn theses, now.

I just don't understand spending that amount of energy to say you hate something as insignificant as a video game. I know that we live in a time of overstimulation that people actively seek out and do things they hate just so they feel something, but hells.

Imagine that instead of feeling all that wrath and anger, to the point that you actually write a god damn disotation, that you just... walk away?

Yes yes. I hear the excuses. But my friends! If they're really your friends, they wouldnt want you to be miserable. They'd still chat with you on Discord, and play other games with you. If they don't, well... I'd have to say they they weren't really friends, bud. Maybe co-workers

Or But my house! There are many games that allow to own a fake home, with far greater control over them Most even have a one time fee as opposed to a monthly fee. If it's truly what's keeping here, then you aren't nearly miserable enough to warrant writing *gestures at OP* this.

Crap like this why the official forums are a joke. A meme. The friggin shadowed lands in the Lion King to the community at large.

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People have invested real money on this game, not to mention hundreds if not thousands of hours into it. Of course they're going to be passionate about it. I don't know why it's so difficult for people like you to grasp that.

at this point i'd want her gone just to not see anymore thread about this from now on

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Originally Posted by Coratanni

People have invested real money on this game, not to mention hundreds if not thousands of hours into it. Of course they're going to be passionate about it. I don't know why it's so difficult for people like you to grasp that.

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There's passionate, and there's deranged. I've quit 3 MMOs I've sunk significant time and money in, and I didn't feel it necessary to write the frikkin Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences every time I did.

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Originally Posted by Superasil

Dumb and cringe. At this point it's just a meme to hate on her.



If you don't like Wuk Lamat you either:

Are playing withe the EN voices (why??) (I'll be honest, I truly believe that if everyone were forced to play on JP voices they'd have a much higher opinion of her).



or


Don't like JRPGs in general.


Wuk is not a bad character. She is typical enough of most JP games in that she's a sprightly, upbeat, cheerful and positive cute tomboy. The only good point that was in the original post was that yes, sometimes our friends focus a bit too much on Wuk (the example with y'shtola calling Wuk instead of us was a good one). After a decade of entirety focus on us, it's not a bad thing for us to take a slightly more backseat to another character, where we acted closer to a mentor than a fully main character.

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What a strange take.
I’m not a native English speaker and play with English voices.
The final trial was the only thing were I saw a drop in the voice acting so that’s not a reason. I don’t even get the finer nuances in the va.

I might play JRPG’s longer than some of the players here are playing video games at all.
Most of my video game library is of that genre.

I still don’t like Wuk Lamat.
Even for a JRPG character she was too one dimensional and too much in the spotlight.
Her problem is that she is a bad JRPG protagonist in a game were there is already a protagonist, namely the WoL and those two roles clashed completely.

She would have worked in a self standing game and story or in a short story and even then people would have had problems with her character because even in JRPG’s the MC normally has more depth than her.

Take Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia for example.
He is a 08/15 MC with simple reasons but he learns to be more understanding, has his worlds views challenged and has a believable growth in his fighting abilities.
And he is probably one of the weakest Tales of character’s personality wise.

Wuk Lamat does not have that.

We also weren’t a mentor. The role quests have us do more mentoring than the MSQ.
We are just there to cheer for WL.

Taking a backseat also needs a clear line drawn because this is still an MMORPG.
You can’t sideline the player character completely from having them be important before that the entire time.
That just miffes those who like their own character and it’s the one thing that was actually brought up as a strength of FF14 compared to WoW.

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Originally Posted by CG1

She should just get the Lyse treatment. She’s had her time in the MSQ, now it’s time for the other characters to shine.

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Seems like a pretty easy solution to me.
Lyse was equally as uninteresting during the Stormblood MSQ so we put her in a leadership position and forgot about her going forward, just need to do the same again.

i like lyse over wuk lamar. lyse never got in way of fighting and deal with issues she actauly had leadership abilities as well as a good head on her shoulders. she was interesting in my opinion Wuk Lamar isn't that interest head stronger, some argue she doesn't like other lands or cultures that almost as bad as her war hunger brother. she could in fact be lead to wage war on other nation out fear of nation and they people.

I hope she gets the Lyse treatment. She'll stay in her kingdom and we never hear from her again.

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

I just don't see the point in continuously winding oneself up over a character that kinda sucks but probably won't be seen again until maybe late autumn at the earliest. Just makes it seem like outrage is all you live for.

Also, killing off Wuk Lamat so abruptly would just make a good chunk of the Dawntrail MSQ thus far even more pointless in hindsight. I'd rather the writers at least try and salvage what they've written (if such a thing can be done) before bringing out the nuclear option.

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I think because she is unavoidable. Even the side-quest re-insert her into your gameplay experience; trials literally have her break through the 4th wall to steal the show lol.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Thats a bit much
i just want her stuck on her throne and never be allowed to leave again
and if she ever knocks on my door again the option to slam it on her face

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Honestly I am of the same mind - that was my major mood killer in the 2nd half of the MSQ when I was glad her driving arc was over; then the story goes "no we have a reason to hitch her to you at EVERY turn and rather then you engaging with the threat...your just watching her do it."

Kill wuk lamat and put a palu merchant on the throne, let the great bargaining begin!

I think I they could nerf her. The first half I feel was SE the second seem be feminist writer with they strong mary Sue character. First the WoL is here of the story I wonder if a Hollywood writer was involved in writing this story the lover of the Mary sue

I present a slightly different take.

1. I think she is hyper focused and it really takes me out of the gameplay experience that generally has been about my unique agency in the world of Eorzea; reducing the player to 2nd fiddle is not terrible in small doses - but for pretty much the entirety of the MSQ and removing even your characters token ability to criticize choices and actions and at times quest design forcing you to perform horrifically incompetent actions (hey lets wait outside of town for half a day...)

2. Because Wuk Lamat is so over-focused we are given WAY to much time to examine her writing and character because...she is the only thing we see for the majority of the storyline; so her poor writing overshadows everything else.

3. The writing of Wuk Lamat in the story seems to defy reason and rationale - we continously discard oppertunities for growth or screen time for any other character in order to cater to the narrative that Wuk Lamat is amazing. Whenever Wuk Lamat does lose; it is solely by her own power that she overcomes her issues with 1 noteworthy exception of her brother instead being the reason the problem gets fixed; we just follow him to let him solve the problem because he then goes on about how great his sister is - we are continously subjected to this hyper focus even when she is off-screen; a point so jarring even when we being to line up Erenvilles arc in Shaaloni. "But what about Wuk Lamat!".

In short I think there was TOO much focus on trying to write Shadow Bringers - but without the action based conflict and making Wuk Lamat the Mary/Gary stu of the story to the writings detriment. The focus on her high-lights how badly the story was written because it often gives up story exploration because it does not focus on her enough. The fact that important people to her that die get a moment of lip service; we see no real growth to rationalize her sudden ability to overcome challenges; she just does so because the story dictates she can now do so without any real journey of development. Its like sitting in a room while someone gushes about their OC and we are FORCED to listen. There is some really interesting story beats in Dawntrail; but anytime we start to sink into it; the story refocuses Wuk Lamat to prevent us from going down that rabbit hole. I have spent a couple weeks now reflecting on "whats next?" or "what threads is the story going to follow" and honestly; Wuk Lamat tied most of them off seemingly effortlessly and I feel her character never really had a indepth reaction to the many events.

This is one of the few instances where honestly? I am more interested in the raid content sub-plot then what actually occured in the MSQ.

Unless she become the villain, it maybe SE doing they make her hero then they flip scripts and she become the villain. For example we leave and off cameras she become evil or was evil all time. She force scions think and her people out fear of think she or she care more about love of her people a goes about becoming like Sphene

If all you care about is your people happiness their very little room for other nations happiness or they people happiness or they needs or want. Wuk Lamar is a cult leader in some way