About Wuk's strength [Ending spoilers]

Estinien was even having a hard time to equal fighting Gulool with one head, so yeah her power level is cracked for no reason other than the power of PEACE and UNDERSTANDING culture

Wuk was the real wol all along, we have just been feeding on powers since ARR

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I'm not really a fan of using Dynamis as a reason for why someone is suddenly unstoppable. I feel it will lead to very lazy writing.

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You feel it will lead? You feel???

It IS the very lazy writing!

She got temporary "shonen main character" powers. We've used it plenty of times, somebody else got a turn this time.

Don't worry, by 8.0 she'll have gone the same way as Aymeric, Hien, Lyse, Ryne, and every other character who was important for one expac and then only ever shows up when we have some reason to go back there for a few cut scenes. (Semi-related, it occurs to me that I don't remember Hien having a single voiced line since Stormblood. Huh.)

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

She got temporary "shonen main character" powers.

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And all it took was:
Getting scammed by the pelupelu for a saddle.
Aerating crops for some lazy green vanu.
Making some tacos.
Fighting a shade of papa.
Having her people genocided by her crackhead brother (that krile could tell was getting more and more evil but didn't say anything whenever she murmured).

Perhaps it's because Zodiark and Hydaelyn are dead now, and the End Of Days came and past. Remember, Zodiark and Hydaelyn (or just Zodiark), created and maintained a "shield" of Eather around The Source and all it's shards. The shield stopped, or at least severely stifled Dynamis's effect on people. Hence why the delay of The End Of Days back in the Acsians time. Now that the shield is gone, we may be seeing an effect of that. That effect being there are now more "special people" who are more attuned to Dynamis than others. Perhaps now, more than just the WoL and and few choice others are able to tap into Dynamis. We're not so "super special" anymore, others are on the rise now as well. Plsu, The End Of Days happened, perhaps there are people who were on the verge of turning into monsters. Dynamis swelled in their bodies, and they came close, but we stopped the End Of Days just in time. Now however, their bodies after getting so close to turning, are more "attuned to" and can channel Dynamis more easily.

I see Bakool Ja Ja and Zoraal Ja being cited, and perhaps they just weren't able to tap into Dynamis like Wuk Lemat is able to. She's special and can, they can not. Not to say they are weak, they are powerful in their own right, they just can't tap into Dynamis like she can. Dynamis makes perfect sense in my head from a Lore Wise perspective, and the reason why Wuk Lemat can channel it better after getting her resolve boosted by the events of Dawntrail. Now that's not to say we're being sidelined as a WoL. We're still far more powerful, because remember, we have more than one extra part of our Ancient's soul fragments within us. We are Ayzema, with more "shards" of our Ancient's soul. We also have his crystal.

We're still the most powerful "main character", we're just starting to meet other powerful people.

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Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

And all it took was:
Getting scammed by the pelupelu for a saddle.
Aerating crops for some lazy green vanu.
Making some tacos.
Fighting a shade of papa.
Having her people genocided by her crackhead brother (that krile could tell was getting more and more evil but didn't say anything whenever she murmured).

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We've done innumerable fetch/collect 20 bear asses/chain of deals quests, completed tons of menial labors, made food and drinks and other amenities (even leaving out culinarian quests), fought friends, and watched obvious villains beat on, betray, and murder our friends and allies, too. Sounds like she's following in our footsteps, she just got the speed run version because she likely won't matter after this expac.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

The more Wuk talks, the stronger she gets.

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Dear god. She's unstoppable.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

Snip

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I'm sorry, but no. It felt like it came straight from a Hildibrand Quest Manderville shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

We're still the most powerful "main character", we're just starting to meet other powerful people.

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Didn't seem like it really. Wuk Lamat seems to beat us in Dynamis if her damage is any indication.

At the end of the day no matter the explanation it doesn't make sense.
Why should she be so special to tap into this much Dynamis power and no other?
Why did she grow so immense powerful? There is actually nothing special about her in lore. She is just a normal girl that learned to fight a bit from her dad.
Even the other scions are not this strong and those are veterans.

I really wish Yoshida and co are sweating right now in their seats and writing an explanation for this mess for the next live letter. But they will probably ignore it as always.

Furry power let's go I guess...

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Didn't seem like it really. Wuk Lamat seems to beat us in Dynamis if her damage is any indication.

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It isn't. By this logic, Estinien is also several times more powerful than us because in his solo duty he was striking for three or four times a player character's damage with basic attacks. Damage doesn't mean anything in a narrative sense.

To be fair, I think the damage is just supposed to look good rather than be indicative of ‘lore-strength’.
Somehow I doubt Wuk Lamat has the power to literally raise the (near) dead, call meteors from the sky that could level entire cities, or summon the physical manifestation of an imagined god (primals) to fight for her.
Wuk tends to be the one at the ‘front’ of the action in the expansion but I don’t think she comes anywhere to close to many of the other characters we’ve met. Like I’d say even G’raha and Y’shtola were more powerful, they simply don’t get utilised in any way to showcase this. Which ends up making Wuk look freakishly (and inexplicably) powerful

The instanced fight at level 94 where you have to fight as Wuk Lamat is utterly ridiculous. People who are defending it and think Dynamis is what caused her power boost are fundamentally wrong according to the lore:

"Dynamis is another form of energy distinct from aether that permeates and conforms most of the physical universe, and in pure quantity is the more abundant of the two, accounting for approximately 68.3% of all known energy. However, its effect on the material realm is much weaker than aether's and is almost completely drowned out in the presence of equivalent amounts of aether. As such, dynamis only shows tangible effects when in large quantities, most notably outer space, away from comparatively aether-rich planets."

Humanity was sundered by Hydaelyn so that we had a chance to defeat Meteion by being able to interact with Dynamis in her own realm at the edge of existence, this is not possible on Etheirys as it is rich in aether.

In 6.55 it's visibly shown to us that she can barely handle a large talking parrot and is physically shaking due to her lack of combat prowess. During the initial level 90 MSQ quests at the start of Dawntrail, whilst each claimant is walking out one at a time from the palace, it is widely stated and recognised that she is significantly weaker in combat than the rest and has no achievements to her name. Then at level 90 MSQ during the Hanuhanu quests, Wuk attacks Bakool Ja Ja when he's threatening to destroy the Hanuhanu float. She literally says "I attacked him with everything I had" after he has blocked her and knocked her back with ridiculous ease, she's probably the equivalent of an average Marauder from the Marauder's guild in Limsa, nothing more.

The fact that she then steamrolls him at level 94 MSQ in the solo instance is complete joke, I was expecting her to at least have the presence of mind to stand aside and let us have that solo instance to toy with Bakool Ja Ja as we put him down. The only reason she is capable of this fight herself is plot armour and terrible writing.

THEN in the second half of the story, where she has absolutely no place being, she can somehow match Zarool Ja in hand to hand combat and destroy his soul regulator. This is beyond obscene as Zarool Ja had defeated Bakool Ja Ja in a MSQ 92 cutscene with one attack whilst holding back on the advice of Sareel Ja. Furthermore, Zarool Ja also has an extra 30 years of combat training along with vastly advanced weaponry. He would be able to just one shot her without even trying, the power scaling in Dawntrail for their Mary Sue / Blackhole Sue is inexcusable, simply believing in yourself and "the Power of Peace" does not make you a vastly more proficient fighter I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

The instanced fight at level 94 where you have to fight as Wuk Lamat is utterly ridiculous. People who are defending it and think Dynamis is what caused her power boost are fundamentally wrong according to the lore:

"Dynamis is another form of energy distinct from aether that permeates and conforms most of the physical universe, and in pure quantity is the more abundant of the two, accounting for approximately 68.3% of all known energy. However, its effect on the material realm is much weaker than aether's and is almost completely drowned out in the presence of equivalent amounts of aether. As such, dynamis only shows tangible effects when in large quantities, most notably outer space, away from comparatively aether-rich planets."

Humanity was sundered by Hydaelyn so that we had a chance to defeat Meteion by being able to interact with Dynamis in her own realm at the edge of existence, this is not possible on Etheirys as it is rich in aether.

In 6.55 it's visibly shown to us that she can barely handle a large talking parrot and is physically shaking due to her lack of combat prowess. During the initial level 90 MSQ quests at the start of Dawntrail, whilst each claimant is walking out one at a time from the palace, it is widely stated and recognised that she is significantly weaker in combat than the rest and has no achievements to her name. Then at level 90 MSQ during the Hanuhanu quests, Wuk attacks Bakool Ja Ja when he's threatening to destroy the Hanuhanu float. She literally says "I attacked him with everything I had" after he has blocked her and knocked her back with ridiculous ease, she's probably the equivalent of an average Marauder from the Marauder's guild in Limsa, nothing more.

The fact that she then steamrolls him at level 94 MSQ in the solo instance is complete joke, I was expecting her to at least have the presence of mind to stand aside and let us have that solo instance by toying with Bakool Ja Ja as we put him down. The only reason she is capable of this fight herself is plot armour and terrible writing.

THEN in the second half of the story, where she has absolutely no place being, she can somehow match Zarool Ja in hand to hand combat and destroy his soul regulator. This is beyond obscene as Zarool Ja had defeated Bakool Ja Ja in a MSQ 92 cutscene with one attack whilst holding back on the advice of Sareel Ja. Furthermore, Zarool Ja also has an extra 30 years of combat training along with vastly advanced weaponry. He would be able to just one shot her without even trying, the power scaling in Dawntrail for their Mary Sue / Blackhole Sue is inexcusable, simply believing in yourself and "the Power of Peace" does not make you a vastly more proficient fighter I'm afraid.

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Thank you for sharing, I did not know about Dynamis's muted effect on Eather rich planets. You and the others are correct, It makes no sense with the Dynamis Effect I thought being debunked.

We're not that special. We need 8 people to do the work and the one time we were against something completely ridiculous in power compared to us (Hades is an ascian and we beat several ascians fair and square before ShB, even Lahabrea) we used the power of Dynamis several time to turn the tables. Wuk shown since 5.55 to be able to keep up with the WoL, she doesn't do that much damage to Sphene, it's just her LB and we weakened her right before. People really need to get in their heads that the WoL isn't much more powerful than the other scions, as shown with duty support nowadays.

She was trained by the Dawnservant...So at best case scenario she is royalty who got top tier training which again best scenario would make her an elite but that is it. Worst case and this is what the actual in game says during the MSQ...She is weaker than her brothers and before Dawntrail she struggled against the mobs when we went on that adventure on the island.

When you consider dynamis...It would throw the whole power equation out the window for if she could do so much with it in an aether rich world...Why can't other characters?

And considering what we have faced over several expansions...In battle experience alone it is several levels above even the Scions. We have demi gods, gods, monsters, primordial beings, tyrants, heroes...

There is no good explanation for her strength. There just isn't...And even if you take strength out of the equation her skill is matching it back to back.

It's pure ??????????????????

Maybe it's a bit more reasonable to assume WoL has been on the brink of death having spent every bit of their aether (a prerequisite for using dynamis being very thin aether) that they've gotten experienced at using it? Reminder that the first time we LB3, we first had to be shielded by Hydaelyn herself from a magic nuke to survive long enough to even have a chance to utilize it. I doubt most fighters in the world have the supreme primal goddess or enough personal prowess to make it so far into such desperate situations where dynamis can kick in, let alone do it so many times they actually learn to use it on the regular.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Maybe it's a bit more reasonable to assume WoL has been on the brink of death having spent every bit of their aether (a prerequisite for using dynamis being very thin aether) that they've gotten experienced at using it? Reminder that the first time we LB3, we first had to be shielded by Hydaelyn herself from a magic nuke to survive long enough to even have a chance to utilize it. I doubt most fighters in the world have the supreme primal goddess or enough personal prowess to make it so far into such desperate situations where dynamis can kick in, let alone do it so many times they actually learn to use it on the regular.

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Oh, yes the in game WOL is a master at it. It's said throughout every expansion to the point they even sometimes stop saying "bring your friends with you" and we just go in ourselves. It's actually curious as to why we aren't allowed to use the Echo more like the Warriors of Darkness did in game.

And she is also a warrior is she not? Considering the warrior questline and maybe I'm missing something there she doesn't seem very powerful either in that regard.

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Originally Posted by TheJamJam

snip (replying to original post).

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I think the answer to why she's so strong is simply because she's the main character and the writers wanted her to be. And there's nothing wrong with that as a starting point as a writer and knowing what you want to achieve with various characters in the story. But they don't give us an actual reason in the story! I'm not going to take the story too literally here--if we're going by Anime Protagonist rules, she gets physically stronger to reflect her own emotional growth and strength, that's a pretty common thing to see. The Warrior of Light can defeat gods many times their size and aether density after all. Unfortunately they don't do a very good job of demonstrating Wuk Lamat's strength to us, at least in the second half, imo. Yeah, are there some silly parts in the first half where she uses the Power of Friendship to overcome the odds? Sure. But for something with the stakes of a competition and a rivalry with her siblings and Bakool JaJa, I can roll with it. It's corny, but it's fine for what it is. I don't need it to make perfect logical sense or be high art if it's adhering the rules and expectations of the genre its going for. Heck, they even gave us the explanation for why we could defeat Valigarmanda when Gulool JaJa and his party could not--It was because it had been imprisoned for so long and was drained of most of it's aether, and that's why Wuk Lamat and co could defeat it (on top of the Power of Friendship).

But breaking into the final boss arena to try and Power of Friendship at an evil rogue AI? Nah. I couldn't buy it anymore. I just groaned and rolled my eyes. It's Eden 8 all over again, and groaned and rolled my eyes for that fight too, and the Eden raids were still a better story than whatever happened here.

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Originally Posted by Verathel

It's actually curious as to why we aren't allowed to use the Echo more like the Warriors of Darkness did in game.

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They had some help from Elidibus to learn how to do it.

Might've also had to do with them having given up their physical bodies first. They were already basically ghosts, so they could just absorb some more aether from their crystals and get back up without having to bother healing their injuries first. We still have our fleshy meats holding us back.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

They had some help from Elidibus to learn how to do it.

Might've also had to do with them having given up their physical bodies first. They were already basically ghosts, so they could just absorb some more aether from their crystals and get back up without having to bother healing their injuries first. We still have our fleshy meats holding us back.

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Yeah that was what they hinted at in game but still its a shame.

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Originally Posted by Ghuval

Dear god. She's unstoppable.

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What Gods? We killed all those, remember?

There are no Gods, only Man. And He shall Walk. :3

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

THEN in the second half of the story, where she has absolutely no place being, she can somehow match Zarool Ja in hand to hand combat and destroy his soul regulator. This is beyond obscene as Zarool Ja had defeated Bakool Ja Ja in a MSQ 92 cutscene with one attack whilst holding back on the advice of Sareel Ja. Furthermore, Zarool Ja also has an extra 30 years of combat training along with vastly advanced weaponry. He would be able to just one shot her without even trying, the power scaling in Dawntrail for their Mary Sue / Blackhole Sue is inexcusable, simply believing in yourself and "the Power of Peace" does not make you a vastly more proficient fighter I'm afraid. Snip

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I did not delve deeply into the Zoraal Ja segment, but I believe I could not have articulated the critique more effectively. The execution of this part appears to lack thoughtful consideration.

What particularly irks me is the apparent absence of lessons learned from the failures of past Sherlock Holmes adaptations. Many of these unsuccessful adaptations were plagued by writers who lacked the intellectual acuity possessed by the characters themselves, a shortcoming that was evident in the incoherent and inconsistent nature of the narratives.

In such instances, the only element of consistency in these stories was the use of contrived plot devices—something that DT’s narrative also employs with a noticeable regularity.

The WoL and 7 homies couldn't nuke it, then Wuk comes in with the power of voice breaks and lays the smackdown, boss's health drops like Wuks balls

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Originally Posted by MarianneviBrittania

What Gods? We killed all those, remember?

There are no Gods, only Man. And He shall Walk. :3

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https://i.imgflip.com/3m1as2.jpg

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Originally Posted by TheJamJam

I did not delve deeply into the Zoraal Ja segment, but I believe I could not have articulated the critique more effectively. The execution of this part appears to lack thoughtful consideration.

What particularly irks me is the apparent absence of lessons learned from the failures of past Sherlock Holmes adaptations. Many of these unsuccessful adaptations were plagued by writers who lacked the intellectual acuity possessed by the characters themselves, a shortcoming that was evident in the incoherent and inconsistent nature of the narratives.

In such instances, the only element of consistency in these stories was the use of contrived plot devices—something that DT’s narrative also employs with a noticeable regularity.

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I'd say the biggest issue with the writing of DT is mainly the haphazard planning and lack of thought when it comes to actually planning out the story and weaving all the narrative elements together, as well as how every element that the story explores is only done in a shallow manner with no consideration to how it might relate to the bigger picture.

For instance, Bakool Ja Ja is just completely let off the hook for freeing Valigarmanda, once the creature is dead and Bakool Ja Ja is suddenly a good guy all of his past bad deeds are forgotten and nobody holds him accountable for his past actions. The narrative just moves on without any consideration of any consequences or how literally putting thousands of innocent people at risk and injuring (Dozens?) of people might cause him to be ostracized or kicked out of Tuliyollal.

Or how a bunch of people in the city literally watched other people die in front of them, some of them friends and family, during Zoraal Ja's attack, but suddenly everyone's okay with a single speech and not a single person holds any resentment for Wuk Lamat/Koana because of the loss of their loved ones, and nobody has to do a single thing to regain the confidence of the people in their newly chosen leaders, especially with the death of their old leader.

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Originally Posted by MarianneviBrittania

What Gods? We killed all those, remember?

There are no Gods, only Man. And He shall Walk. :3

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I think you mean "He Shall Speak With Wuk Lamat"...

Are we gonna get One Punch Wuk Lamat in the future? Since I feel like my character becomes worthless in this expansion

I'm loving that everyone's gripes with Wuk Lamat is because they feel like their OC's screentime is cucked by Wuk Lamat

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Originally Posted by EdwinChucklenuts

I'm loving that everyone's gripes with Wuk Lamat is because they feel like their OC's screentime is cucked by Wuk Lamat

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https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...LEDFB1s5Hk.jpg

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-6rs1...384448.jpg?c=1

Have you seen this promotional material? Can you spot Wuk Lamat anywhere? Why wasn't she featured instead?

If you saw this, would you believe that the Wol would be less than a side character? Of course not. Square Enix would not risk using such a marketing tactic and would instead try to convince you that it's the other way around. If they promoted Wuk as if she would dominate the entire storyline, people would have a very different perception of the expansion.

Now, after realizing that the actual product deviates from the promotion, are you still surprised that people have complaints? Or are you here to provoke reactions by intentionally pretending to be ignorant?

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Originally Posted by EdwinChucklenuts

I'm loving that everyone's gripes with Wuk Lamat is because they feel like their OC's screentime is cucked by Wuk Lamat

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Yea, it's totally that! It's not the awful writing, inconsistent characterization, subpar VAing (not just Wuk's, these two are issues with almost everyone) or, as per this thread's topic, inexplicable power ups, inconsistent world-building, retcons and ignoring established lore!
It'd be as if, in Heavensward, a random knight-templar charged at Nidhogg without Hraesvelgr's eye and somehow won. Would've made a ton of sense.
But yea lol, look at those idiots malding about their OCs :')

It's like people don't put 2 minutes of thought into what's being presented on screen.
And Llama Tea's inexplicable powerups are only half of the shark-jumping of this expansion, I'm dying to see how they explain why electrope can't be used in the Source to fix literally every problem ever.
Someone mentioned Dynamis was a plot-device contrivance that could lead to lazy writing- correctly so- but electrope, which can even create matter, is going to be even worse.

I don't think Elidibus using limit breaks has any bearing on the Dynamis debate. At the time, he was also a primal, and primals basically operate on pure emotion. I'm not sure the inability of ancients to utilize Dynamis would apply there.

It's like homie doesn't bother reading the various detailed description of people's problem with Wuk. So yeah I'm going with intentionally ignorant

I really don't see the issue with her power up. It's certainly no more egregious to use getting stomped by Zenos and then beating him at the end of SB. Despite us just ocntinuing on withour adventuring we'd already done for a base game and full expansion beforehand and not doing anythign special to pursue that goal. Wuk loses. She has a character arc, grows more determined in her resolve, and is able to best Bakool. Same with us losing to Rhan'jit and then killing him later on.

Bakool is tough but he's also no legendary dragon either. For Sphene, the idea that s he's 'surpassing the wol' is laughable. She isn't even neccesary to defeat the boss. She does a hefty chunk of damage with her lb sure but it's not even presented as us being in danger. It's just the climax of her arc with Sphene built up through Heritage Found and people are blowing this out of proportion. NPCs do big limit break attacks all the time in solo instance fights, often to save us from bad situations, yet only Wuk Lamat is argued to have 'surpassed us' because of doing something like this.

Damage that, might I add, only comes into play after the WOL and friends push her into the victory lap desperation phase that allows Wuk to break free at all.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I really don't see the issue with her power up. It's certainly no more egregious to use getting stomped by Zenos and then beating him at the end of SB. Despite us just ocntinuing on withour adventuring we'd already done for a base game and full expansion beforehand and not doing anythign special to pursue that goal. Wuk loses. She has a character arc, grows more determined in her resolve, and is able to best Bakool. Same with us losing to Rhan'jit and then killing him later on.

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The key difference in all of this is that we, as players, do stuff that in a lore sense make ourselves stronger. Typically training via combat. While there are often villains that make little sense being stronger than us to begin with, the growth of our characters starting weaker than them and then getting stronger typically does make sense.

Wuk on the other hand did not do this. She had zero combat or physical training what-so-ever outside of dungeons, which the other characters also did. She largely just had a lot of diplomatic training (which isn't a bad thing story wise in its own right), and no matter how you cut it making tacos isn't going to make you more martially adept than two separate characters who we were both told and shown to be vastly stronger than her. The only thing I can even think of that would have been like training in this case was the first trial fight since Bakool Ja Ja and Zoraal Ja weren't there. But Koana was, so is he super strong now too?

I've seen a lot of people compare her to Naruto, but at least he had training arcs and effectively a nuke in his back pocket. She had nothing. No training, no special powers, no magical weapon. Nothing besides plot armor. Plot armor and tacos. No matter how you cut it, that's bad writing.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I really don't see the issue with her power up. It's certainly no more egregious to use getting stomped by Zenos and then beating him at the end of SB. Despite us just ocntinuing on withour adventuring we'd already done for a base game and full expansion beforehand and not doing anythign special to pursue that goal. Wuk loses. She has a character arc, grows more determined in her resolve, and is able to best Bakool. Same with us losing to Rhan'jit and then killing him later on.

Bakool is tough but he's also no legendary dragon either. For Sphene, the idea that s he's 'surpassing the wol' is laughable. She isn't even neccesary to defeat the boss. She does a hefty chunk of damage with her lb sure but it's not even presented as us being in danger. It's just the climax of her arc with Sphene built up through Heritage Found and people are blowing this out of proportion. NPCs do big limit break attacks all the time in solo instance fights, often to save us from bad situations, yet only Wuk Lamat is argued to have 'surpassed us' because of doing something like this.

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We were only stomped by Zenos in the first fight and even then his sword broke instantly and in the second encounter we managed to deal damage to his armor.
We were never really far behind him we just met our equal for the first time.
Then we had Susanoo, the Azem steppe battle and liberated Doma (war experience) and we spared with Lyse and Hien two, while not as strong, still formidable fighters.
Wuk Lamat goes from getting stomped by Bagool Jaja with one arm to defeating him and his lackeys together, fighting her brother on equal ground (who also had a battle armor on top) to single handedly holding the final boss back and doing a uberful limit break.
Ranjit was a battle hardened veteran who fought sin eaters for his whole life and taught the oracle of light how to fight time and time again.
He had finesse to our brawn and we learned that after the first shock against him.
It is equally stupid that we kept running away from him.

It's really not comparable at all.

The other thing to consider is, the the WoL is the Main Character in this game. Of course we get stronger, of course we overcome the odds. It's a jrpg after all. If you take that and say "oh well you know this NPC? Yeah he has more growth in strengh then you in the last few expansions" then what is the point?
That would be like having Lyse come in and hold Shinryu back single handedly or Raubahn blocking the ultima weapon.
The final boss, while not our toughest enemy was not a pushover. It has Azem's hourglass and technology far behind our own. It warped dimensions. There is a reason we used Azems crystal there and didn't just do a Thordan on it.

The whole thing has the taste of:
"Hey Wuk Lamat is now the main character you can go now. Thanks for the money till now and don't forget to close the door."

Ffs, all I wanted was AT LEAST the final battle for my character. Was that too much to ask?

Zenos defeated us easily in the first two encounters once he was done playing around. It was not a nearly even fight. He toys with us and then when he's done toying with us, defeats us quickly and easily. We might break a sword or damage his armor or whatever but we are very clearly outclassed and he instantly shuts us down when he gets tired of playing around.

And Bakool Jaja and even Zarool Ja (pre power up at least) are no Zenos. And we know that, without drawing on souls to power himself up, Zarool is weaker than his father even in his old age.

If questing and doing dungeons is enough for the WOL to bridge the gap with Zenos then I dont' see why it shouldn't be enough for Wuk Lamat to do the same. The trusts are canonically there for the dungeons afterall. The WoL 'leveled up' to fight Zenos, Wuk Lamat 'levels up' to defeat Bakool. And we don't even know how the duel between her and Zooral Ja would have gone if he hadn't backed off after she broke his regulator anyway.

In the final battle, Wuk Lamat does not save the day. She does not defeat Sphene single handedly. She does not shield us from Ultima or anything like that. WE are the ones who push Sphene into drawing on reserve power, and making her error out from pushing the system too hard trying and failing to kill us. WE weaken the system so that WUK LAMAT can escape from cyber prison. And in that final phase sure she does a big chunk of damage to the boss but at that point the fight is basically over anyway because WE pushed the Queen onto the back foot desperately trying and flailing about to win even though it's clearly over, just as with Thordan/Hades/Endsinger final phases. Wuk Lamat just shows up to put a climactic cap on the arc betwen her and Sphene, she doens't really turn the tide of the fight.

Whether she SHOULD be there narratively is another topic with no relevance to her physical strength.

Let's think about these final bosses for a moment:

ARR: We get bailed out by Hydaelyn's divine intervention four times in a row, sacrificing most of her remaining power for us.
HW: An ancient dragon who seemed to have lost all faith in humanity turns around and trusts us with his eye, bringing the theme of the expansion to its conclusion.
SB: The game keeps squaring us up against Zenos several times to show our growth and training, showing how we gradually tank his super attacks better and better each time.
ShB: Like four different things happen that have been built up the entire game? You have G'raha coming to our rescue. We finally harness the Warden's light we've been struggling with the entire game. We rejoin with our soul brother and learn the biggest lore bomb about WoL. All of the main Scions pull together for the first time.
EW: Our nemesis and the most overpowered villain established for 3 expansions shows up to aid us as a finale for his character arc. Scion's once again there all helping out with a callback to the very first cinematic of the journey. The dynamis Limit Break theory they established earlier comes to fruition.
DT: Wuk Lamat *crayon scribbles* power of friendship! (ignore Krile and G'raha right there in the corner, apparently no longer having enough feelies to help us in any way, only Wuk Lamat, for no rhyme or reason)

How can anyone seriously argue DT final trial conclusion is just as well constructed as any other expansion's?

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Originally Posted by Sacae

I don't think Elidibus using limit breaks has any bearing on the Dynamis debate. At the time, he was also a primal, and primals basically operate on pure emotion. I'm not sure the inability of ancients to utilize Dynamis would apply there.

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Primals feed on aether which is the main issue besides the tempering problem: They suck the ambient aether like big ass vacuums and can rend a sizeable area virtually barren if they remain summoned long enough.

The crystals are usually for the "cost" of summoning them, after that they will use their aether reservers then proceed to feed on ambient aether passively as a "maintenance cost"