They are already planning to dumb viper down

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Originally Posted by OliverQ

Viper is the easiest dps in the game right now except Summoner. It's easier than Reaper.

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I disagree. I feel like it's harder than the other DPS and I find those OTHER DPS easier to play. But I can understand if you feel that way that its easy cause I believe peoples playstyles and comfort zones are different.

Edit: edited to make it clearer.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

I disagree. I feel like it's harder than the other DPS and I find those OTHER DPS easier to play. But I can understand if you feel that way that its easy cause I believe peoples playstyles and comfort zones are different.

Edit: edited to make it clearer.

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Viper is fairly simple with a little practice, this might help you

https://www.thebalanceffxiv.com/jobs...r/basic-guide/

On paper it might sound like a lot but you're naturally keeping all your buffs up if you hit the glowing button and occasionally hit Dread Fangs and using Dreadwinder on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

Viper is too hard and difficult as it is now. Please continue with the changes Square. This way more people will be able to enjoy Viper and not be a job for just the hardcore players.

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Oh the job you started playing a few days ago feels hard compared to the jobs you've played for years?

How about you give it some amount of time before jumping the "it's too hard" gun?

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

Viper is too hard and difficult as it is now. Please continue with the changes Square. This way more people will be able to enjoy Viper and not be a job for just the hardcore players.

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It's perfectly fine as it is. If the job is difficult for you, then practice until you're better with it, and if that doesn't work you could just go back to something you're more comfortable with.
Not every job needs to have a playstyle that appeals to everyone; not every job needs to be easy and accessible.

More job variance means different jobs can appeal to different people, which is in my opinion far better than jobs being dumbed down and homogenized just so anyone can pick up and play them without having to make an effort.

I love it. Really fun job, a little light on complexity, but that makes it very approachable and playable even on off-days. It doesn't need a single change except maybe a defensive.

I really hope the changes they plan to do will not be drastic, the job is the easiest among the melees and genuinly fine the way it is right now. I do not wish to see any changes made to it save the usual balance potency ones. Removing anything would be quite disappointing as the classes get simpler and simpler and lose more and more of their identity. So I hope SE will not make any large changes, whatever they plan on doing in the end.

if they change the job I will quit and main fishing instead

I actually don't like it. I have to watch my bar waiting for the skillsnto proc. Not fun at all. We finally got real duel blade job and it's meh... nothing exciting about it.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

I actually don't like it. I have to watch my bar waiting for the skillsnto proc. Not fun at all. We finally got real duel blade job and it's meh... nothing exciting about it.

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They don't have procs, but if you don't want to look down, this is what I did until I got the muscle memory

https://i.gyazo.com/4d510ac41163b7af...b885d1d3db.png

All the other buttons have a set pattern you're always pressing in the same order so you don't need to worry about them.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

Viper is too hard and difficult as it is now. Please continue with the changes Square. This way more people will be able to enjoy Viper and not be a job for just the hardcore players.

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pls

you dont need to press buttons in order to do rp/gpose

let the gameplay side to the actual players

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Originally Posted by Urthemiel

It's perfectly fine as it is. If the job is difficult for you, then practice until you're better with it, and if that doesn't work you could just go back to something you're more comfortable with.
Not every job needs to have a playstyle that appeals to everyone; not every job needs to be easy and accessible.

More job variance means different jobs can appeal to different people, which is in my opinion far better than jobs being dumbed down and homogenized just so anyone can pick up and play them without having to make an effort.

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Obviously it isn't or they wouldn't be making the changes they announced that was based on feedback from the players.

I disagree with jobs not appealing to everyone. I believe that they should appeal to the widest audience possible. This is a disagreement that I don't think you or I will change our stance on and thats okay. More accessibility means that more players overall can enjoy it and not just a select few. Its overall better to get a bigger audience.

Again we just fundamentally disagree. But I respect your opinion. :)

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Oh the job you started playing a few days ago feels hard compared to the jobs you've played for years?

How about you give it some amount of time before jumping the "it's too hard" gun?

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It's the same for alot of the people here with opposing view. It came out a few days ago and some people are saying "its just fine."

It's a silly argument. Everyone had time to play it. Whether its sufficient time or not to judge it depends on the player and clearly many found it to be in a bad state hence the announced changes.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

Obviously it isn't or they wouldn't be making the changes they announced that was based on feedback from the players.

I disagree with jobs not appealing to everyone. I believe that they should appeal to the widest audience possible. This is a disagreement that I don't think you or I will change our stance on and thats okay. More accessibility means that more players overall can enjoy it and not just a select few. Its overall better to get a bigger audience.

Again we just fundamentally disagree. But I respect your opinion. :)

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Can't wait for them to remove all the buttons and make all the jobs play themselves. That would make all the jobs playable by everyone and their dogs. Widest audience possible am I right?

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

It's the same for alot of the people here with opposing view. It came out a few days ago and some people are saying "its just fine."

It's a silly argument. Everyone had time to play it. Whether its sufficient time or not to judge it depends on the player and clearly many found it to be in a bad state hence the announced changes.

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It depends on the players alright. The people who actually know how to play would of course have no issue playing the job properly. Those who don't even read the tooltips would resort to crying and asking for things to be dumbed down instead of putting in a modicum amount of effort.

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Originally Posted by noelregnard

Can't wait for them to remove all the buttons and make all the jobs play themselves. That would make all the jobs playable by everyone and their dogs. Widest audience possible am I right?


It depends on the players alright. The people who actually know how to play would of course have no issue playing the job properly. Those who don't even read the tooltips would resort to crying and asking for things to be dumbed down instead of putting in a modicum amount of effort.

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Sure, they can definitely add in an automation function. I believe some mmos have been starting to do features like that such as Black Desert.

And ur 2nd statement is just a baseless assumption. It adds no value to the conversation other than just being toxic. To me it makes you look like ur lashing out because you dont like people who opposes your opinion on this topic. Please try to be constructive. It would help your case more rather than make people angry at you.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

Sure, they can definitely add in an automation function. I believe some mmos have been starting to do features like that such as Black Desert.

And ur 2nd statement is just a baseless assumption. It adds no value to the conversation other than just being toxic. To me it makes you look like ur lashing out because you dont like people who opposes your opinion on this topic. Please try to be constructive. It would help your case more rather than make people angry at you.

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LMAO. Frankly, I don't care about you. You're just contrarian troll who just likes to be contrarian just to get a rise out of people. I respect neither you nor your "opinion".

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Originally Posted by noelregnard

LMAO. Frankly, I don't care about you. You're just contrarian troll who just likes to be contrarian just to get a rise out of people. I respect neither you nor your "opinion".

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The only person who seems to be trolling is you. Since you can't argue your point or be constructive we're done here. It seems you just want me to continue taking your bait but that ends here.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I was going to make this thread if no one else did.

VPR plays perfectly! I'm going to have to ask where did this feedback come from? It certainly wasn't from NA because I haven't seen anyone saying that they need to ease positional requirements.

Moreover, what does it mean "changes to the effects of several actions"? What could this possible refer to? The only thing I can think is Dreadwinder combo not breaking, but that's weird because RPR's combo still breaks with other actions.

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Eh what? No, it doesn't. Only time and pressing the wrong 123 button ends it. You can press literally every button reaper has and the combo won't ever break.

I'm happy to see so many others who are also happy that VPR is the way it is. We all subscribed for this, a fast pace job who feels rewarding to pull off correctly. It's nice that I have an alternative to MNK if I want a fast pace, fluid job. So don't change VPR, it's an awesome job

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

The only person who seems to be trolling is you. Since you can't argue your point or be constructive we're done here. It seems you just want me to continue taking your bait but that ends here.

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But what is it that makes Viper too hard to use? Some classes being more demanding than others is fair and normal so they appeal to various people, similar to how the races appeal to various tastes. And I do not mean this as a dig; I genuinly would just like to know what exactly it is that makes Viper so difficult it needs a change or is seemingly unplayable to people. I can see how weaving is more frequent but otherwise there is not much that sets it apart from classes that have to keep up a dot/debuff or combos which do not break upon executing other skills.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

I disagree with jobs not appealing to everyone. I believe that they should appeal to the widest audience possible. This is a disagreement that I don't think you or I will change our stance on and thats okay. More accessibility means that more players overall can enjoy it and not just a select few. Its overall better to get a bigger audience.

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Your opinion makes no sense though to be quite honest. You could appeal to more players by having a variety of jobs, with a variety of skill requirements and play styles. Making everything a middling sludge will turn people away who want something else. And if nothing in the game caters to them because every single job is the same difficulty, then they will stop playing and you have fewer players overall.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...951dacfe30a6c8

Perhaps they shouldn\\\\'t listen to players hot takes about how "hard" viper is when it hasn\\\\'t been out one week. People tend to underestimate how much muscle memory will make viper feel very easy very quickly as it is.

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100%! Couldn't agree more.

Is there no way to edit posts? Well I left this out

If one job is too hard for someone they'll switch jobs. If every job is too easy for someone they'll stop playing.

I don't understand such a rapid, knee-jerk reaction to change it. I don't even think during the media tour that anyone had any complaints, AFAIK they were saying they all learned it within about an hour and had no problems with it.

If directionals are there to cut out the chaff and separate players based on how much they're paying attention, then leave it - please. I'm seeing classes get streamlined and lose identity (I.E. Dark Knight's plunge being taken away instead of just removing the damage, which was supposedly the only issue) and this just seems a bit too far, this early into the expansion. The tooltips could use a rework, but that's a fundamental issue with the game, not specific to Viper (although it kind of puts a spotlight on it), but that's about all I'd say is wrong, personally.

Sharing my thoughts again on the matter. I don't feel any different about this since the last time I posted here. I do not want Viper to lose the busyness or the positionals, I still find that's what makes it fun. Please don't change this!

I feed on the hate! MORE! Streamline everything! - Former SMN main, who will never play the class again after it was turned braindead

More likely - is that they feel tremendous pressure to make Viper "more accessible" because it is the most popular job they have. They sold the entire expansion on this job's identity, which means this is THE FAD of the expansion to want to play.

If an overwhelming chunk of your players are playing this job, that's a lot of $$$$$ that pay monthly that you're at risk of disappointing if a good chunk of them are complaining hard.

if 1% of your player base plays a job, then it doesn't matter so much if it's a bit wonky

if almost 10% of your player base plays a job, that's a lot of money you don't want to fuck up on.

business decision, as always.. :(

Seems stupid to remove something that just came out. The community hasn't even given it a far time, especially since other jobs have positionals and haven't had the same reaction.
I think the people with adhd just finally took their pills and are lashing out at the newest job.

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Originally Posted by animeking

I think the people with adhd just finally took their pills and are lashing out at the newest job.

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you say things like these and complain that the devs don't listen to your feedback

We've been heard!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8a9223b0ad1e0&

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Originally Posted by ShaliaK

We've been heard!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8a9223b0ad1e0&

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Not in a good way the job got dumbed down even more then the loss of positionals would of been