Unpopular Opnion: Dawntrail MSQ one of the best yet! [Spoilers]

im here to say i abolsutely agree wit you! i haven't reached endgame yet so i skipped those parts but bumping for appreciation. These Endwalker-loving, "I want to be the main attention" peeps need to grow up.

I honestly love story its lighter then Endwalkers. Pacing is not as bad and its living up too what people have been calliing it tThe vacation expansion. After Endwalkers story whats wrong with a lighter story and the wol riding shotgun until til the big show starts.

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

I really like this expansion, and so does plenty of others. Gtfo from this forum (and the game) if you can't have that other people don't jump on the hate-wagon, like you have.

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Calm down sweetie, I don't want you taking to twitter/x and writing a lenghty post because I've triggered you. This expansion was luke warm at best, I'm glad you found something to cling onto that you enjoy, there are good aspects about it, the dungeons are great, the trials are great, musics great, the maps are great.

But the pacing, the story writing, the wuk lamat are terrible.

Is that better? are you going to stop whinging like a tit because I complimented something? I'm sorry, maybe I'll cushion my complaints with a compliment so people like you stop assuming a complaint automatically means I think the expansion is beyond saving.

If anyone needs to get off the forum, it's you. It's the place for people to vent and praise the game, no good ever game from someone brown nosing game developers when they perform poorly.

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Originally Posted by Rxvenluvsducks

im here to say i abolsutely agree wit you! i haven't reached endgame yet so i skipped those parts but bumping for appreciation. These Endwalker-loving, "I want to be the main attention" peeps need to grow up.

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It's a nice change of pace to actually see a positive thread, it's a just a shame the basement dwelling forum dwellers have alrdy tried to push it away or tell others they are wrong for enjoying the game they pay for.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

It's a nice change of pace to actually see a positive thread, it's a just a shame the basement dwelling forum dwellers have alrdy tried to push it away or tell others they are wrong for enjoying the game they pay for.

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Right? Wish all the whining pissants would just put their money where their mouth is and bail.

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Originally Posted by EdwinChucklenuts

Right? Wish all the whining pissants would just put their money where their mouth is and bail.

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''So you've enjoyed the last 10 years of content but aren't 100% happy with the new offering? oh, well you should just leave and never come back''

That's you, that's what you sound like.

Copium Maximus unleashed!

I am 100% convinced some people have sockpuppet accounts to boost their negative comments about the expansion.

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Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

The only true statement in this entire post.

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The only statement of your post that isn't trying to find more excuses to shit on the expac.

It never ceases to amaze me how this community needs to defend the game against any form of valid criticism.

Okay, I can't understand liking this MSQ to begin with outside the last 20% or so, but I DEFINITELY can't imagine thinking it's even close to ShB or EW, wtf?

That's one hell of a copium mixture.

The expansion story is bad. It's practically Stormblood level bad in writing.

Wuk Lamat is excruciating, she is a carbon copy of Lyse just with a skin. Her 'peace and understanding' is to Lyse's 'fighting spirit and determination', one note that's played too often.
Bakool Ja Ja is written cartoonishly evil, I can't believe I'd see a character that uninteresting I barely remember him at the end of expansion when he shows up again. Like you know, that lv 68 dungeon end-boss.
I don't mind being a bystander if the story is entertaining, this is far from it. Heavensward story focus is Ishgard and its war with the dragons, I was there as a semi-important person just like WukTrail?
Lv 97+ story was interesting, so much so it felt like it was written by a different person. Then... by the twelve, that last trial ending was so bad.

On the brighter note we got dual-dyed system. Not worth the price and wait tbh, but well.
The classes pretty much remain the same with flashier skills, it doesn't get worse to make it not sound 'negative' as the apologists say.
Dungeons and trial are great this expansion, I'm not that good at the game but they're not so difficult that I have trouble with it.

A new start, a new beginning for an entirely new saga does not mean it has to start at so bottom level.
ARR was that bad due to myriad of constraints, WukTrail had the luxury of funding and time.

You can have taste so low that you can tolerate this story more power to you, though I have to ask you: at what quality you will find low enough you'd start call them out?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

I am 100% convinced some people have sockpuppet accounts to boost their negative comments about the expansion.


The only statement of your post that isn't trying to find more excuses to shit on the expac.

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So you willingfully ignored my other posts complimenting the dungeons, music, maps and trials?

I suppose the only reason you find the story good is because much like my posts, you didn't read it.

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Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

So you willingfully ignored my other posts complimenting the dungeons, music, maps and trials?

I suppose the only reason you find the story good is because much like my posts, you didn't read it.

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Oh I'm sorry sweaty, I respectfully disagree with you.
Is that better?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Oh I'm sorry sweaty, I respectfully disagree with you.
Is that better?

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I don't need the obvious pointed out to me, unlike some. I was just correcting you because you willingfully ignored context for the sake of your own agenda, you're welcome.

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Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

I don't need the obvious pointed out to me, unlike some. I was just correcting you because you willingfully ignored context for the sake of your own agenda, you're welcome.

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And what a splendid job you did.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

And what a splendid job you did.

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You're welcome, sweetie.

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Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

You're welcome, sweetie.

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Of course, sweaty.
Now, can you let others enjoy the expansion?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Of course, sweaty.
Now, can you let others enjoy the expansion?

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If you can't enjoy the expansion because someone else is venting their frustrations with a poorly written expansion/character, that's something you need to work on yourself. Maybe you aren't enjoying it as much yourself if someone elses opinion is enough to barricade your own enjoyment.

Go and enjoy it? nothing stopping you.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Of course, sweaty.
Now, can you let others enjoy the expansion?

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Awww that meme comes to mind with those people huddled and the one person screaming at them to stop enjoying it because they dont, thats the whole vibe these forums and some of these posters give off seriously.

Also I ironically love it how you're calling that person sweaty, get's a chuckle from me everytime :D

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Awww that meme comes to mind with those people huddled and the one person screaming at them to stop enjoying it because they dont, thats the whole vibe these forums and some of these posters give off seriously.

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Where have I seen this before?

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I mean look at this forum it oozes negativity yet you all think you're right, give me a break you "people" are the problem, you go into the posts and upvote eachother and phase the good threads out of existence with your rubbish takes.

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Oh yeah!

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Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

''YOU'RE ALL WRONG!.png''

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I said this to you earlier.

I suppose immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Awww that meme comes to mind with those people huddled and the one person screaming at them to stop enjoying it because they dont, thats the whole vibe these forums and some of these posters give off seriously.

Also I ironically love it how you're calling that person sweaty, get's a chuckle from me everytime :D

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Yeah like, there are 3 or 4, maybe 5 threads in General Discussions that are positive, and they all get mocked and dogpiled on. The outcome was predicted on the very first page of this thread.

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Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

I'm Karen and Insane?

Okay, so why are you literally copying what I said then? I think I have a little fan over here.

PS: If you're going to ''meme'' at least do so in the correct context, because as of yet you haven't.

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If it makes you sleep at night...

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Originally Posted by TBerry

If it makes you sleep at night...

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Oh, you're still here? I thought you'd be off enjoying that expansion you keep praising. Funny that.

Seriously can someone ban those sockpuppets?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Seriously can someone ban those sockpuppets?

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''Someone is disagreeing with me, ban them!''

Grow up. Physically. Literally. Metaphorically. Spritually. Emotionally. Grow the fuck up.

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Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

''Someone is disagreeing with me, ban them!''

Grow up. Physically. Literally. Metaphorically. Spritually. Emotionally. Grow the fuck up.

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Wat.
I wasn't even talking about your post.
Or you.

My main issue with the story was the second point in the OP, "The right of succession was mostly pointless and dragged out".

None of the things written in that section of the OP really address it, imo. Like, I get the themes it's presenting, and they're fine, but also it was a story that was basically laid out at the start and then proceeded exactly as-expected. An event having in-world significance, and playing through it feeling pointless/boring/dragged out, are different things. The closest thing to a twist or interesting plot development I cared about was the backstory of Bakool Ja Ja, where the "Wuk and Koana" ending was on my bingo sheet for the straightest way to tie up that plot too (though I was secretly hoping it was Erenville as a twist). The only other thing that could have possibly been a shocking plot development would be Valigarmanda being freed, but even without the teasing of it being the first trial, we know we would've been fighting it regardless, so it being freed would be entirely unsurprising. Plus, it felt like Wuk's character honestly didn't have much character development at all from the journey, she gains an education about the people of Tural but being more educated and character development are pretty different things.

That being said, I thought everything from the 97 dungeon (Vanguard) and beyond was fantastic, and for the most part I don't have *that* much of a problem with Wuk, I just think she was put front+center a *little* too much after the succession. 90-96 was just a bit disappointing.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the post because I am still early in the story, but I really love Dawntrail so far.

After so much focus on the WoL as the main character, it's refreshing to have other characters (mainly Wuk Lamat) as the main focus for the time being. Also, the writing seems to be favoring a lot of character development, which is something I really enjoy seeing and is a nice change of pace from the constant major events happening in other expansions. As well, seeing the Scions develop their character due to the timeskip in ShB was one of my favorite parts of the expansion, so I like having more of that in Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

My main issue with the story was the second point in the OP, "The right of succession was mostly pointless and dragged out".

None of the things written in that section of the OP really address it, imo. Like, I get the themes it's presenting, and they're fine, but also it was a story that was basically laid out at the start and then proceeded exactly as-expected. An event having in-world significance, and playing through it feeling pointless/boring/dragged out, are different things. The closest thing to a twist or interesting plot development I cared about was the backstory of Bakool Ja Ja, where the "Wuk and Koana" ending was on my bingo sheet for the straightest way to tie up that plot too (though I was secretly hoping it was Erenville as a twist). The only other thing that could have possibly been a shocking plot development would be Valigarmanda being freed, but even without the teasing of it being the first trial, we know we would've been fighting it regardless, so it being freed would be entirely unsurprising. Plus, it felt like Wuk's character honestly didn't have much character development at all from the journey, she gains an education about the people of Tural but being more educated and character development are pretty different things.

That being said, I thought everything from the 97 dungeon (Vanguard) and beyond was fantastic, and for the most part I don't have *that* much of a problem with Wuk, I just think she was put front+center a *little* too much after the succession. 90-96 was just a bit disappointing.

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I'm only up to the level 99 trial but my feelings are the opposite of yours.

I enjoyed 90-96 as a mostly relaxing story that did a substantial amount of world building. It felt like the vacation that YoshiP described it as being when they first started talking about 7.0.

Then the story turned and my reaction was "Was this the best they could come up with to round out the story? Did they really feel a need to jump the shark and raise the stakes like this right after they had talked about how the intent was to dial back on it for an expansion?" I was able to predict far too many things with reasonable accuracy between paying attention to details in the big cutscene at level 96 and then our first meeting with our new enemy.

Maybe what happens between the level 99 trial and the level 100 trial will redeem the second segment of the story but I'm really not hopeful at this point. I'm going into it with a feeling of "well let's just get this over with so I can move onto doing content I find more interesting". I can't remember feeling that way while playing this game since they revamped the ARR MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Xil-Ventus

Dawntrail stands out as the most emotionally resonant expansion in a long time, skillfully crafted for a mature audience.

Excessive exposition would have felt heavy-handed, insulting our intelligence. Conversely, too little exposition would have hindered our empathy for the characters.

Dawntrail rewards attentive players with emotional intelligence, offering a refreshing experience that respects its audience's maturity.

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Lol, lmao even.

This felt like a preachy Saturday morning special trying to teach children why it's good to respect other cultures.

Although I wasn't a fan of DT, I'm happy to read and see how other people saw things and why they enjoyed them so I can better understand what the expansion is aiming for. The thing I can't really accept though is the take on Bakool Ja Ja... He doesn't just flip motivations and question himself, the entirety of his core personality and his entire moral compass flip on a dime offscreen overnight after losing a single battle. Basically in the span of one cutscene, he fundamentally experiences an almost comically breakneck personality change that'd come across as brain damage in other stories (Not insultingly, other stories have used neurological trauma as a device before). In one cutscene, he went from totally happy to endanger thousands of innocent lives for the slimmest advantage to someone with an intense respect for life and the people around him. Maybe I'm missing something but this just does not make sense to me unless I'm trying extremely hard to view the story in a positive light without questioning anything.

Odd really, considering the amount of negativity I've been reading about it, how it almost feels 'wrong' to admit that I enjoyed Dawntrail.

However, I did enjoy it - due in part to the fact that it delivered on exactly what was 'promised' during the later stages of Endwalker: made us less 'Warrior of Light' (in fact I don't recall that title being used even once in DT) and more 'Adventurer'.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Odd really, considering the amount of negativity I've been reading about it, how it almost feels 'wrong' to admit that I enjoyed Dawntrail.

However, I did enjoy it - due in part to the fact that it delivered on exactly what was 'promised' during the later stages of Endwalker: made us less 'Warrior of Light' (in fact I don't recall that title being used even once in DT) and more 'Adventurer'.

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You should never feel bad for enjoying something other people didn't like. This is coming from someone who thinks DT is a narrative trainwreck.

That being said, I've noticed that those who enjoyed this expansion seemed to buy into the concept and insert their own narrative in between the lines, while those who dislike it tend to be more critical about the logic behind everything and general narrative structures. For example, you said you enjoyed the fact that we were more "adventurers" this expansion but honestly I have no idea where you're seeing this. We spent half the time intervening in the politics of another nation in a rite of succession in order to avoid all-out-war between nations, opting to seat a highly unfit ruler rather than a warmongerer, then spent the latter half of said expansion stopping a massive calamitous star-wide invasion from a highly technologically advanced shard that has the ability to fuse into our reality and even has a massive timewarping advantage. There wasn't even any adventure behind the "city of gold", gulool ja ja basically knew where it was the whole time.

I actually went into this expansion wanting a refreshing, low stakes adventure in the jungle with some of the scions. That is what we were promised, and instead we got two different stories smooshed together starring a brand new character that was set up to fail. Both of which were not very well written, full of plot holes and contrivances.

I'm not trying to shame you for enjoying DT and anyone who does is just rude. I just think it's important to have constructive criticism and understand why some people liked it and others didn't.

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Originally Posted by Soxxx

Although I wasn't a fan of DT, I'm happy to read and see how other people saw things and why they enjoyed them so I can better understand what the expansion is aiming for. The thing I can't really accept though is the take on Bakool Ja Ja... He doesn't just flip motivations and question himself, the entirety of his core personality and his entire moral compass flip on a dime offscreen overnight after losing a single battle. Basically in the span of one cutscene, he fundamentally experiences an almost comically breakneck personality change that'd come across as brain damage in other stories (Not insultingly, other stories have used neurological trauma as a device before). In one cutscene, he went from totally happy to endanger thousands of innocent lives for the slimmest advantage to someone with an intense respect for life and the people around him. Maybe I'm missing something but this just does not make sense to me unless I'm trying extremely hard to view the story in a positive light without questioning anything.

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That was my issue with the entire expac, in some places they seemed to want to have 5 cutscenes exploring the importance of some biennial aspect of a culture we likely will never come across again, and then with massive significant character arc they just glaze over it as fast a possible in 1 cutscene with a couple lines. I genuinely think that's why Wuk is so unpopular, because the writers didn't focus on any of her growth moments and allow her to develop as a full character, instead they just kept her as 2d preachy goof with no emotional depth.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Odd really, considering the amount of negativity I've been reading about it, how it almost feels 'wrong' to admit that I enjoyed Dawntrail.

However, I did enjoy it - due in part to the fact that it delivered on exactly what was 'promised' during the later stages of Endwalker: made us less 'Warrior of Light' (in fact I don't recall that title being used even once in DT) and more 'Adventurer'.

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You are not even an adventurer, you are babysitting. The adventurer here was Estinien, don't confuse things.

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Originally Posted by Icycrits

You should never feel bad for enjoying something other people didn't like. This is coming from someone who thinks DT is a narrative trainwreck.

That being said, I've noticed that those who enjoyed this expansion seemed to buy into the concept and insert their own narrative in between the lines, while those who dislike it tend to be more critical about the logic behind everything and general narrative structures. For example, you said you enjoyed the fact that we were more "adventurers" this expansion but honestly I have no idea where you're seeing this. We spent half the time intervening in the politics of another nation in a rite of succession in order to avoid all-out-war between nations, opting to seat a highly unfit ruler rather than a warmongerer, then spent the latter half of said expansion stopping a massive calamitous star-wide invasion from a highly technologically advanced shard that has the ability to fuse into our reality and even has a massive timewarping advantage. There wasn't even any adventure behind the "city of gold", gulool ja ja basically knew where it was the whole time.

I actually went into this expansion wanting a refreshing, low stakes adventure in the jungle with some of the scions. That is what we were promised, and instead we got two different stories smooshed together starring a brand new character that was set up to fail. Both of which were not very well written, full of plot holes and contrivances.

I'm not trying to shame you for enjoying DT and anyone who does is just rude. I just think it's important to have constructive criticism and understand why some people liked it and others didn't.

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Totally understand where you're coming from. And in fairness, I never said I thought it was perfect/amazing etc - only that I enjoyed it.

There were definitely a fair number of head-scratch and WTF moments in there though.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Totally understand where you're coming from. And in fairness, I never said I thought it was perfect/amazing etc - only that I enjoyed it.

There were definitely a fair number of head-scratch and WTF moments in there though.

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I actually enjoyed a lot of aspects of the story too, I really went in with an open-mind. Such an open mind that I ignored a lot of redflags on my playthrough. I'm just frustrated because there were so many balls dropped that would've elevated this story to higher levels. Heck, most of my problems with Dawntrail aren't even the narrative itself, but more so the lack of believable character writing. The zones were breathtaking, the dungeons were fun. The music was immaculate. You're not crazy for enjoying yourself, you're totally valid.

THe story was quite good. The things people don't like are
1.) the lack of main character syndrome.
- for some people everything has to be "all about me". This really limits the amount of good story-telling that can be done. These people need to get some perspective in the game and out.

2.) They don't like wul lamat.
- Just like they didn't like zero. You don't like brooding women. You don't like happy all-out there women. I'd ask what they want, but I just don't care because these people find someone to complain about in every expansion. In stormblood it was Lyse. in heavensward it was alphinaud. In shadowbringers... well idr any complaints about shadowbringers but thats more of a me issue I'm sure. Point is, some people will never be happy outside of a single expansion. We can't have any story be the same as the one expansion you liked. Sorry about your bad luck but learn to live with it. I mean the complaints are so moronic. "Wuk lamat talks too much" Oh sorry the MAIN CHARACTER of the story has more dialogue than others. STRANGE how that works isn't it? Have you ever read a book in your life? that is how it works.

3.) They didn't like the family-diechotomy / motivation for Zoraal ja.
- I get it, you can't relate to family issues and expectations. But with all the people who play this game and watch anime I was almost certain people would understand Zoraal Ja's motivations as they are a common anime trope. This story had 3 main conclusions though, so even if one fell flat for you personally, then it's nbd. Not everyone will connect with every story beat on a personal level.

4.) They think that world-building is boring.
- Some people just want to be right in the action all the time. Part 2 of the story makes very little sense if we didn't build up our new characters over part 1. It was an integral part of telling THIS story. I'm sorry that it was boring for some people, but we go through this nearly every expansion. It was just a little longer in this one because we had so many more people to learn about than ever before. Every expansion usually has a mystery to figure out to over the course of the expansion too, but this one did not get it's big mystery until after part 1 of the story. This is FINE for some stories. We don't need to fall into a story pattern of exposistion for 1 zone and then hell-breaks loose for the other 5 zones. It only makes sense to do that in stories were a threat has already long been established. Like with garlemald. Sometime y'all forget that this is a story game first and everything else second, and then somehow you're upset about that. I truely feel that the players of this game ruin the good things about it just like they're doing now.

Can't wait to compete against our fellow Scions! Oh boy! -_-

Have to agree.. It felt over all more interesting than many other expacs. It is not like a super epic storyline like EW was, and I can at least relate to some criticism but this hate is so exaggerated.