Content creator irresponsibility in covering #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Hakane_Mitsu

Even Mr Happy of all people said in his latest Q&A, no one cares for this movement, quicker you guys realise this, quicker we can all go back to having fun :)

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I will have fun as soon as Sage gets more attacks and isn't just spamming Dosis for almost the entire fight :)

This thread was honestly a mistake that only serves to fuel later videos and takes that will clown on the #healerstrike more.

By this point in time, people that might be aware of it have already made up their minds, with video creators/journo article writers/forum posters/whatever providing their input. People that have gotten a glance at the situation have already made up their minds and written things off with the upcoming hype for new expansion. The people that suggested to unsub to hurt their wallet to get squenix to maybe have been dogpiled there and back again, so that ends that discussion. And every other post or point on the main thread keeps circling back and forth, with some thoughts being outright ignored in favor of more provocative statements.

If you keep making threads as a defense on any videos that come out with their own takes, in the long run it's going to hurt the look of #healerstrike. It's going to make the people in support of #healerstrike look neurotic and paper-skinned if things that have been going on in the main thread hasn't had some accomplishment in that already. Fine if you want to be unhappy, just don't get so bent out of shape you start lashing out at everyone and everything; you'll just get more people to instinctively side against you and stop taking you seriously.

See you in 7.0 and good luck.

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

This thread was honestly a mistake that only serves to fuel later videos and takes that will clown on the #healerstrike more.

By this point in time, people that might be aware of it have already made up their minds, with video creators/journo article writers/forum posters/whatever providing their input. People that have gotten a glance at the situation have already made up their minds and written things off with the upcoming hype for new expansion. The people that suggested to unsub to hurt their wallet to get squenix to maybe have been dogpiled there and back again, so that ends that discussion. And every other post or point on the main thread keeps circling back and forth, with some thoughts being outright ignored in favor of more provocative statements.

If you keep making threads as a defense on any videos that come out with their own takes, in the long run it's going to hurt the look of #healerstrike. It's going to make the people in support of #healerstrike look neurotic and paper-skinned if things that have been going on in the main thread hasn't had some accomplishment in that already. Fine if you want to be unhappy, just don't get so bent out of shape you start lashing out at everyone and everything; you'll just get more people to instinctively side against you and stop taking you seriously.

See you in 7.0 and good luck.

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If you ask me the whole movement was doomed from the start by calling it a "strike". Now that whole topic's become such a bloated mess of a debacle that I'm surprised content creators even wanna touch it.

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

This thread was honestly a mistake that only serves to fuel later videos and takes that will clown on the #healerstrike more.

By this point in time, people that might be aware of it have already made up their minds, with video creators/journo article writers/forum posters/whatever providing their input. People that have gotten a glance at the situation have already made up their minds and written things off with the upcoming hype for new expansion. The people that suggested to unsub to hurt their wallet to get squenix to maybe have been dogpiled there and back again, so that ends that discussion. And every other post or point on the main thread keeps circling back and forth, with some thoughts being outright ignored in favor of more provocative statements.

If you keep making threads as a defense on any videos that come out with their own takes, in the long run it's going to hurt the look of #healerstrike. It's going to make the people in support of #healerstrike look neurotic and paper-skinned if things that have been going on in the main thread hasn't had some accomplishment in that already. Fine if you want to be unhappy, just don't get so bent out of shape you start lashing out at everyone and everything; you'll just get more people to instinctively side against you and stop taking you seriously.

See you in 7.0 and good luck.

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Do as I say, not as I do. I'm pretty sure square enix will side with its customers as opposed to "content creator."

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

people that suggested to unsub to hurt their wallet to get squenix to maybe have been dogpiled there and back again

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Look like you already made up your mind. But that is not what happened.

It wasn't really about a helpful suggestion to unsubscribe. The response to that suggestion was that unsubscribing was not the intent of the strike, or the players that supported the strike, and pointing out the obvious problems with providing feedback for a game you aren't subscribed to. They kept going on and on about how healers couldn't be taken serious if they weren't willing to unsubscribe, and how it would really be in the healer's own interest to unsubscribe, while ignoring the counter arguments. That changed from possibly a misguided suggestion trying to be helpful, to a very obvious attempt to dismiss the complaints by showing the healers weren't even serious enough to unsubscribe.

And besides that, it's rather creepy for a stranger to try involve themselves in a personal choice like what subscriptions you have for what services. Even more so if they continue after being told it's unwanted advice.

The only way to reasonably see that as innocent people getting dogpiled, is if you only read the tail end of that.

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

with some thoughts being outright ignored in favor of more provocative statements

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No idea what point you exactly mean, but stuff like that can happen at times. The thread often moved to fast to respond to everything. And many things were already discussed multiple times, but brought up time and again as if completely new.

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

just don't get so bent out of shape you start lashing out at everyone and everything; you'll just get more people to instinctively side against you and stop taking you seriously

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I agree with that sentiment. But that should be applied fairly, so also to people being unreasonably harsh against the strike.

Content creators and Playerbase should work together on what they agree on that should change to make the game better. Pointing fingers and telling each other you don't matter if you don't have all Crafting Recipes or have cleared every Savage/Ultimate just makes the game and it's Community worse. Not better.

MMOs thrive off of Community. Not who got the quickest clear in Ultimate or who crafted everything first.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Content creators and Playerbase should work together on what they agree on that should change to make the game better. Pointing fingers and telling each other you don't matter if you don't have all Crafting Recipes or have cleared every Savage/Ultimate just makes the game and it's Community worse. Not better.

MMOs thrive off of Community. Not who got the quickest clear in Ultimate or who crafted everything first.

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Tell that to the 30+ content creators judging people over a video game lol.

It really is peak cringe.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Tell that to the 30+ content creators judging people over a video game lol.

It really is peak cringe.

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Eh I left a comment that covers what I said but most have the mentality of a worn out leather shoe.

So angry for so long they have grown too used to their anger it becomes a new comfortable state of mind and can't think any other way. So the cycle will continue.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Content creators and Playerbase should work together on what they agree on that should change to make the game better. Pointing fingers and telling each other you don't matter if you don't have all Crafting Recipes or have cleared every Savage/Ultimate just makes the game and it's Community worse. Not better.

MMOs thrive off of Community. Not who got the quickest clear in Ultimate or who crafted everything first.

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The player base itself doesn't agree and content creators are just players themselves.

Thinking there's going to be any sort of agreement is naive at best. Just look at the main thread. There are many different opinions being expressed in there by players who are healers mains, players who don't main but do play healer, players who don't play healer beyond getting it to level cap, and players who don't play healer at all.

You're going to have a hard time getting content creators to cover it in the manner you want if they personally don't believe the problem exists or feel that the strike is an overreaction to the problems.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Tell that to the 30+ content creators judging people over a video game lol.

It really is peak cringe.

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It goes both ways. Why are people judging other people (who happen to be content creators) over their opinions about a video game?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The player base itself doesn't agree and content creators are just players themselves.

Thinking there's going to be any sort of agreement is naive at best. Just look at the main thread. There are many different opinions being expressed in there by players who are healers mains, players who don't main but do play healer, players who don't play healer beyond getting it to level cap, and players who don't play healer at all.

You're going to have a hard time getting content creators to cover it in the manner you want if they personally don't believe the problem exists or feel that the strike is an overreaction to the problems.

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Eh better to have tried then to not try at all.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The player base itself doesn't agree and content creators are just players themselves.

Thinking there's going to be any sort of agreement is naive at best. Just look at the main thread. There are many different opinions being expressed in there by players who are healers mains, players who don't main but do play healer, players who don't play healer beyond getting it to level cap, and players who don't play healer at all.

You're going to have a hard time getting content creators to cover it in the manner you want if they personally don't believe the problem exists or feel that the strike is an overreaction to the problems.


It goes both ways. Why are people judging other people (who happen to be content creators) over their opinions about a video game?

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Just because some disagree doesn't mean it's not a valid point which square enix should consider.
I can't remember the last thread which had 300+ likes; closest I remember was the "Add male viera" thread.

That should tell you how relevant the movement is.

I tell it like it is, a lot of those streamers just outright think their opinion matters more than the community's. No amount of twisting and lawyering changes what's evident and in the open.

At this point I am just glad it is getting attention. Maybe this will encourage someone from SE to look at the healer section of the forums to see what the major gripes are. But that is pure copium.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The player base itself doesn't agree and content creators are just players themselves.

Thinking there's going to be any sort of agreement is naive at best. Just look at the main thread. There are many different opinions being expressed in there by players who are healers mains, players who don't main but do play healer, players who don't play healer beyond getting it to level cap, and players who don't play healer at all.

You're going to have a hard time getting content creators to cover it in the manner you want if they personally don't believe the problem exists or feel that the strike is an overreaction to the problems.


It goes both ways. Why are people judging other people (who happen to be content creators) over their opinions about a video game?

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It doesn't go both ways. I haven't said anything about any content creator that is personal. I've called out things like hypocrisy or factually incorrect statements. Telling someone they can't understand their job because they haven't played enough endgame is ignorance.

I mean can you find someone saying Zepla, MrHappy etc do not have a right to their opinion? Probably not. They can believe they are superior to Gemina or whoever all they want.

Frankly it's their loss imo because change is going to happen whether they want it or not. Unlike them I have conviction and hopefully so does anyone striking. Their bullying is what doesn't matter, not the thread.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Just because some disagree doesn't mean it's not a valid point which square enix should consider.
I can't remember the last thread which had 300+ likes; closest I remember was the "Add male viera" thread.

That should tell you how relevant the movement is.

I tell it like it is, a lot of those streamers just outright think their opinion matters more than the community's. No amount of twisting and lawyering changes what's evident and in the open.

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Except when you actually look at the thread, it's the same small group of people posting over and over, coupled with others disagreeing with them. A pure number of pages doesn't mean much when it's already the minuscule minority of players (forum posters) going in circles. That it's "really important" to a small group of people doesn't mean things should be changed for everyone else. (Also consider the infamous "EW story sux" thread that's about 3x as long and has effectively done nothing about provoking a change for DT.)

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I mean can you find someone saying Zepla, MrHappy etc do not have a right to their opinion? Probably not. They can believe they are superior to Gemina or whoever all they want.

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What did they say that makes you think they feel superior?

I saw them expressing their personal opinions. That's all. If they're focusing on healing in high end content, it's because that's what they do and it's where healing should get more difficult.

Instead of focusing on content creators that don't represent the striker point of view and basically saying "you're wrong because you don't agree with us", find the ones that do and focus on promoting them.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Except when you actually look at the thread, it's the same small group of people posting over and over, coupled with others disagreeing with them. A pure number of pages doesn't mean much when it's already the minuscule minority of players (forum posters) going in circles. That it's "really important" to a small group of people doesn't mean things should be changed for everyone else. (Also consider the infamous "EW story sux" thread that's about 3x as long and has effectively done nothing about provoking a change for DT.)

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The cool thing about the forums is that these kinds of statements are easily disproven. When you go to "General Discussion" and look at the number of replies to a thread, you can actually click the number and it opens a new window with all the participants and their post count in the thread. With a quick copy paste to notepad I can see there are 588 unique participants in the healer strike thread. In the "EW story sux" thread, as you call it, the 4 most active posters managed 2000+ posts (>20% of posts) by themselves, which is not the case here. The "Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional" thread has 269 unique participants, and the devs thought that was a big enough issue to warrant a response.

Edit: 605 participants now.

Aaah the mandatory "small loud minority/ echo chamber/ " comment in every thread that dares to criticize/ disagree with any aspect of the game. Don't care if Dawntrailer releases in 14 days or tomorrow and they can't change anything, hope the healer situation get more coverage

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Originally Posted by Reinha

With a quick copy paste to notepad I can see there are 588 unique participants in the healer strike thread

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Reading the last three pages of posts in that particular thread at 9:30 AM CDT on 20 Junes 2024 shows it is still an interesting healer related debate ....... nah, it's devolved into bitching about join dates, alts, and simping. On topic for sure.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Just because some disagree doesn't mean it's not a valid point which square enix should consider.
I can't remember the last thread which had 300+ likes; closest I remember was the "Add male viera" thread.

That should tell you how relevant the movement is.

I tell it like it is, a lot of those streamers just outright think their opinion matters more than the community's. No amount of twisting and lawyering changes what's evident and in the open.

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In terms of likes the healerstrike thread has beaten out the 'endwalker story sucks' thread and the only recent thread I found that beat it is the spanish translation thread which might be the least controversial topic ever.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What did they say that makes you think they feel superior?

I saw them expressing their personal opinions. That's all. If they're focusing on healing in high end content, it's because that's what they do and it's where healing should get more difficult.

Instead of focusing on content creators that don't represent the striker point of view and basically saying "you're wrong because you don't agree with us", find the ones that do and focus on promoting them.

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MrHappy directly attacked the thread creator as I described. He implied that she can't understand what she is even talking about based on his assumptions about her experience. That's ridiculous. Someone doesn't have play high end content to make a thread compiling healer concerns in the first place. But also, the thread maker doesn't need to play Extreme to understand her job is boring in whatever content they do play. It's ignorance on multiple levels.

Aside from that, humans have a thing called tone and body language. The other streamers weren't quite as rude as such, but there is a general dismissiveness present across the board. Eye rolling, sighs, explaining issues in the strike to the strikers as though it's new information ("the game has been this way") etc. You can say they're "just giving an opinion" but players know when they're being spoken down to when it occurs.

And to edit in his exact comment, MrHappy said roughly:

"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You have no power. You won't affect anything. And I mean Gemina or whatever hasn't even cleared Extreme. You don't even play the game!! Yeah this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

That's the kind of response you expect from a seasoned veteran of the game? Lol. He should go back to streaming Hunts for 6 hours.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

MrHappy directly attacked the thread creator as I described. He implied that she can't understand what she is even talking about based on his assumptions about her experience. That's ridiculous. Someone doesn't have play high end content to make a thread compiling healer concerns in the first place. But also, the thread maker doesn't need to play Extreme to understand her job is boring in whatever content they do play. It's ignorance on multiple levels.

Aside from that, humans have a thing called tone and body language. The other streamers weren't quite as rude as such, but there is a general dismissiveness present across the board. Eye rolling, sighs, explaining issues in the strike to the strikers as though it's new information ("the game has been this way") etc. You can say they're "just giving an opinion" but players know when they're being spoken down to when it occurs.

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They dont, truth hurts

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

They dont, truth hurts

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The thread creator is irrelevant. It's a compilation of information from sources who do play hardcore content.

I see you're a MrHappy viewer. My apologies

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The cool thing about the forums is that these kinds of statements are easily disproven. When you go to "General Discussion" and look at the number of replies to a thread, you can actually click the number and it opens a new window with all the participants and their post count in the thread. With a quick copy paste to notepad I can see there are 588 unique participants in the healer strike thread. In the "EW story sux" thread, as you call it, the 4 most active posters managed 2000+ posts (>20% of posts) by themselves, which is not the case here. The "Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional" thread has 269 unique participants, and the devs thought that was a big enough issue to warrant a response.

Edit: 605 participants now.

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605 out of how many players?
that is a VERY small amount, even if you multiplied it by 100 or even 1000, it would be a small % of the over all player base.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

The thread creator is irrelevant. It's a compilation of information from sources who do play hardcore content.

I see you're a MrHappy viewer. My apologies

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oh no, I dont agree with you so I must be a Mr. Happy fan, grow up

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh no, I dont agree with you so I must be a Mr. Happy fan, grow up

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Your agreement isn't required and neither is his. It's just a fact.

Maybe you're not a viewer (didn't say fan) but you share the same fundamental misunderstanding. Enjoy that

They're not wrong though, it's all a farce anyway.

Welcome to people seeing things differently than you, if you have trouble with that oh boy you're in for a rough time.

The main people that everyone follows in terms of XIV ""content creators"" are frankly, lazy uninspired individuals who basically scrape the bottom of the barrel on a regular basis for lowly drama views like the makeup community adjacent tea channels that they actually are. They've never had anything of any true substance to say, and they never will. They'll just pick a (typically irrelevant to the actual point) comment or two to read to their chat, make some completely random totally misinformed comments about them filled with as many um's and ah's as possible, and then close out the topic with some nonsensical fence sitting statement that allows them enough leeway to worm their way out of any controversy should one side emerge as the chosen wrong side and the other new aligned safe zone.

Expecting any of them to take the time to actually read even 10 posts out of that 450 page 1 week made monster makes about as much sense as scooping a fish up out of the ocean and putting it down on the middle of the freshly pavemented ground expecting it to sprout feet and start walking. It's never going to happen. The average well known xiv content streamer will open a thread, slack their jaws immediately, and start drooling while their eyes glaze over in dissociation for about 45 minutes to an hour, until they come to and remember that their rent is due and they gotta put something out by the end of the week so their analytics don't start reporting a sharp dip.

Think the only way out of it is if someone with a great understanding on the topic at hand picked out the best most strongly worded and well explained posts out of all of these threads, and compiled them in a way that even a thrice time dropped from a tree panda could understand it.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

605 out of how many players?
that is a VERY small amount, even if you multiplied it by 100 or even 1000, it would be a small % of the over all player base.

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This is you not understanding statistics
https://i.imgur.com/lrCHIwM.gif

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

605 out of how many players?
that is a VERY small amount, even if you multiplied it by 100 or even 1000, it would be a small % of the over all player base.

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I wont interpret any numbers here because you are probably right that the majority just doesn't care for healer design but thats not how it works.
You cant take those 605 in relation to the player numbers but to the people on the forum. Only those can comment and like comments. There are examples of players who have only recently commented with approval (healer and blm), myself included and there are propably more who are dissatisfied but don't comment.

Like someone else said. The best telling is probably the likes on the initial comment compared to other threads. (how alts are affecting that I don't know though)

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What did they say that makes you think they feel superior?

I saw them expressing their personal opinions. That's all. If they're focusing on healing in high end content, it's because that's what they do and it's where healing should get more difficult.

Instead of focusing on content creators that don't represent the striker point of view and basically saying "you're wrong because you don't agree with us", find the ones that do and focus on promoting them.

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I agree with your last point here, that would be the best way.
The first point though I disaggree.
Its all a matter of tone especially if you are a bigger content creator because you are public figure. They are not live with those videos and have time, some tact should be expected no matter the topic but maybe thats just my old worldview.
This thread wouldn't exist if they formed those opinions in a normal way (and some of them did more then just read the hashtag.
It's fine to disaggree with the topic but someone should at least do the research on the background before commenting.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

Welcome to people seeing things differently than you, if you have trouble with that oh boy you're in for a rough time.

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https://i.imgur.com/cYMNskG.png

Looks like people seeing things differently than you is definitely something that you seem to have trouble with, considering your abuse of the Tag system for the purpose of puerile mockery.

Whether a person does or does not do high-end content is irrelevant. The only time it should be relevant is when they are speaking directly of that specific content. Classes will only be a matter of understanding them, and not all people who understand the jobs will do that high-end content. Equally, if a person with a poor understanding of healers is able to get by with absolutely no issues whatsoever in the content they are doing then this is a problem.

Regardless of the level, be it normal mode or extreme, savage or ultimate... If an entire role is, or can be rendered moot then it is a problem - Whether the role is a tank, or a healer. All encounters should require a healer, and have some form of mechanic that healers need to engage with.

If I can go into a dungeon right now, and have my entire existence rendered moot by a tank that is busy playing god then that is a problem. E.g., Bloodwhetting not being penalized in AoE situations is a problem. This near enough renders a healer irrelevant on the only threatening part of a dungeon. -- Dungeon bosses do very little damage, and said damage across the party is so sparse that in many cases passive HP regen everyone gets by default covers most of it anyway.

Anyone saying you need to do xyz content before your complaints are valid are just being both dismissive and just doing the most disgusting form of appeal to accomplishment humanly possible, and I certainly hope any people being dismissive over this aren't subsequently getting upset over Yoshida's dismissal of "If you want engaging content, then go play ultimate" - Because they both effectively border on the same limited mentality.

That being said, I don't think a healer strike will accomplish much in any scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

This is you not understanding statistics
https://s1.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-1-71cb746d6f.gif

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How, exactly, does a missing image help us in understanding statistics?

Content Creators in regards to Healers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1aeu5GIY4

Content Creators when Devs gut BLM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74EEXU-OEZo

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

605 out of how many players?
that is a VERY small amount, even if you multiplied it by 100 or even 1000, it would be a small % of the over all player base.

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I have performed statistical wizardry:

[FFXIV Content Creators Complaining about Healers Complaining] / [Total Registered FFXIV Accounts] = VERY SMALL NUMBER

Therefore, we can agree that FFXIV Content Creators's opinions about the game are basically irrelevant and do not represent the majority.

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Also, because I have gone through all the effort to develop this powerful statistical model, let's keep putting it to good use:

• Number of "Kailea_Nagisa" Registered on This Forum: 1
• FFXIV Total Active Users: A LOT

1 / [Total Registered FFXIV Accounts] = VERY SMALL NUMBER

Therefore, we can agree that your opinion is not important and that you should stop complaining.

Sweetie, your little forum strike isn't going to be a widespread game-changer like you think it is. We all are going to be enjoying the expansion, running trials, dungeons and roulette like normal. Why? Because know SE isn't going to cater to you. Folks want to play regardless. And there will always be healers ready to heal. This silly little endeavor is nothing more than the forum folks in their tiny little bubble that is not representative of the total healer player base. But please. Continue. When DT launches without a hitch and folks are running everything as normal, you all can continue to scream into the void while we all have a great time.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Sweetie, your little forum strike isn't going to be a widespread game-changer like you think it is.

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But it already managed to change the game.

It got media attention, both from game journalist websites and content creators. It managed that in a week, where Years of more or less polite feedback since 2018 did not achieve Anything.

I sit here watching this and for funsies queued dutyfinder with a smn since I was distracted by all these threads..... and in expert roulette had 3 party wipes due to mistakes by a healer that couldn't keep up and yet "we don't need healers anymore" and we had the god tier warrior tanking that supposedly can replace a healer

That's a whole lot of words to say "These people disagree with me and I don't like it."

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

But it already managed to change the game.

It got media attention, both from game journalist websites and content creators. It managed that in a week, where Years of more or less polite feedback since 2018 did not achieve Anything.

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To be fair, those things are outside of the game.
"Game-changer" is probably meant in this case as actual changes in the game.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

I sit here watching this and for funsies queued dutyfinder with a smn since I was distracted by all these threads..... and in expert roulette had 3 party wipes due to mistakes by a healer that couldn't keep up and yet "we don't need healers anymore" and we had the god tier warrior tanking that supposedly can replace a healer

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Same argument I used when some healers started to complain about duties being completed without them

Not everyone can play tank at the level it takes to do what Xeno and his friends did
Healers are needed for the a standard situation. Healers could use at least a 3 hit combo spell. That is pretty much it.
This 'strike" is really stupid, for the simple fact that the people joining it want some really stupid or crazy things done to "solve" the problem.