Crafted Gear releasing on the same patch as the first Savage tier

Can't wait for Savage Leatherworking!

I still hope that 7.05 patch will release savage/craft the same day but with a delay on the savage

Otherwise if it’s the same day then it sucks really hard, im HC progging with my static so we’ll have to hire 3-4 crafters to craft+pentameld our sets and pay with either X0 millions gils or ex mounts

I really hope this is just an oversight because the gear was only out before savage because they delayed only savage for 6.2 and 6.4. One of the main reasons why I like this delay is exactly because of the crafted gear being available early. I also haven't heard a single crafter complain about this delay. Not from friends, not from social media, not even from the live letter. I still remember Yoshida himself being surprised after 6.2 that crafters actually made more money than usual from crafting with this delay.

And as a side note: I like the capped tomes still being delayed because I really dislike the idea of having to buy the tome weapon week 1 if you also plan to finish the tier in the same week. It feels so wasted.

Adding my voice to say I hate this. I much prefer having time at the very least to gather materials without being rushed to craft everything (since nodes are time gated). Crafting plus gathering all on the same day if you want to hop into savage day 1 is just stressful and I don't appreciate it.

Look at all the baby raiders

The choice to give us time to prepare for raids was the best thing to be added to the game and takes away all the stress of raiding upon release. Why reverse this? Who at SE said that people didn't like quality of life?

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Originally Posted by PintyMcEars

Look at all the baby raiders

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No, the people complaining are those who have raided/crafted before EW, hated the old system, loved the QOL that 6.2 and 6.4 introduced, and really dislike that 7.0 is returning to the status quo.

Good thing they reverted that change. Day one on a new tier is the only time during an expansion where being a decent crafter is worth something nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Venarius

Good thing they reverted that change. Day one on a new tier is the only time during an expansion where being a decent crafter is worth something nowadays.

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You are going to be sorely disappointed. MB prices for gear were not lower due to the delay, but due to the advent of DC travel, which made the market more competitive.

The delay does allow the opportunity for someone to make a lot more by being commissioned by a Day 1 team, but I sure hope they are providing service that is worthy of the premium they are charging and not being like most of the others I have encountered who cannot even be bothered to make their own crafting rotations.

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Originally Posted by Oxidized

You are going to be sorely disappointed. MB prices for gear were not lower due to the delay, but due to the advent of DC travel, which made the market more competitive.

The delay does allow the opportunity for someone to make a lot more by being commissioned by a Day 1 team, but I sure hope they are providing service that is worthy of the premium they are charging and not being like most of the others I have encountered who cannot even be bothered to make their own crafting rotations.

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Exactly. I made well over 100M in 6.4 without being remotely dedicated to week 1 crafting. In fact, I remember how quickly everything tanked within the first few hours of 6.0 because server visiting, nevermind DC travel.

The only people benefiting from this change are the handful of crafters for World Prog teams, many of whom aren't getting paid with gil. Which, ironically, can hurt crafters that don't have a network cycle because everyone outside alarm clock proggers will simply wait for prices to crash. And they will crash because bot crafters don't care about profits. They care about volume.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

bot crafters

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I was reluctant to mention this because I did not want to give someone ideas, but yes, there is an influx of "TOS-breaking" crafting (and MB pricing) activity that also serves to drag prices down, and it has a much greater impact than any Savage content delay. Still wish SE did something about this.

Bumping for visibility and support

I'm in support for this change request!

Saw a post on the JP thread that raised an interesting point. This is the first expansion launch with DC travel available, and anyone paying attention knows what DC travel has done to the high-end PF. Everyone looking to raid via PF on day one is going to travel to Aether (for example) and that means most of the people looking to buy gear day one are going to do so on Aether as well. And because you only have retainers on your home world, only crafters native to Aether will be able to sell their gear to day one raiders, or they will at least have a disproportionately large market. A one week offset would be an easy fix.

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Originally Posted by ZiegeDame

Saw a post on the JP thread that raised an interesting point. This is the first expansion launch with DC travel available, and anyone paying attention knows what DC travel has done to the high-end PF. Everyone looking to raid via PF on day one is going to travel to Aether (for example) and that means most of the people looking to buy gear day one are going to do so on Aether as well. And because you only have retainers on your home world, only crafters native to Aether will be able to sell their gear to day one raiders, or they will at least have a disproportionately large market. A one week offset would be an easy fix.

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I saw this argument on JP as well, they typically all go to Mana to raid and supposedly it is the same exact scenario that NA faces regarding Aether. Crafters on Crystal and Primal will be at a huge disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Oxidized

I saw this argument on JP as well, they typically all go to Mana to raid and supposedly it is the same exact scenario that NA faces regarding Aether. Crafters on Crystal and Primal will be at a huge disadvantage.

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Since I just craft for myself and my static generally I didn't even think about this option. This makes it even worse :(

So I guess that prices will plummet to the ground on «*non raiding*» DC like Chaos for EU ?

Since there will be as many crafters as in Light, but far less people that want to buy, since R1s-R4s pf’s will be on Light

Can we at least stock up on timed nodes in the four weeks leading up to 7.05?
Of course we won't know exactly what we'll need for any given piece, but can we at least start hoovering up as much rare materials as we can in hopes we can use some of it to make some gear?
This will be my first expansion launch, and I'm still trying to figure out how everything usually goes.

How many roundtrips to same timed node you usually need for a set of gear?

I wonder what is realistic minimum of time to craft a set after servers go live.

Wholeheartedly supporting the request!

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Originally Posted by Oxidized

I saw this argument on JP as well, they typically all go to Mana to raid and supposedly it is the same exact scenario that NA faces regarding Aether. Crafters on Crystal and Primal will be at a huge disadvantage.

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This is technically true, but it depends on the person selling. There's nothing really stopping anyone from making alts on Aether and selling your gear through them. By this point the lock on world travel would be lifted so statics can have all of their members. All you'd need to is to progress far enough on your main to buy an apartment, get a mannequin, lock your items as a set for purchase and have the alt buy them for 1g or whatever. You're ultimately trading to yourself so it's not "violating" anything.

I've brought this person up before but I had a friend on Dynamis who played on multiple servers and sold furniture. They cleared 1B in profit when Empyreum opened just by crafting on their main and selling the items on multiple servers.

Anyone who is also concerned can keep an eye on the PF for those hiring crafters for savage. You'll just fill orders for whoever hired you and get paid at the end. I did this once and made about 80m gil in 6 hours.

Just a reminder, everyone flooding to Aether is a community made problem. Square didn't force anyone to go there for raiding. We, as a community, assigned Aether as the server to do content on and this is the consequence for it. I don't expect them to do anything to fix it but if they do then awesome. Otherwise, it's probably a good idea to start figuring out how to make things work with what we have. The community wanted convenience over building up their own DC and this is a side effect of it.

Reposting from a comment I left on another thread, but I thoroughly agree that Square Enix should release crafted gear in 7.01 instead of at the same time as savage in 7.05. A major point of the delay introduced in the 6.2 and 6.4 updates was to allow for players to have time to complete normal mode raids without the pressure of choosing between enjoying the story at a leisurely pace or raiding in savage on release. Crafting releasing early also let players leisurely prepare, sell, and purchase their gear, instead of having to burn themselves out in a mad dash to acquire the crafted gear. Now, players are pressured to make a hard choice once again, for no reason at all- they can either spend their time crafting their gear to either sell or use, or they can raid in savage, but you cannot do both at the same time. It seems like a really out of touch decision to go backwards on one of the best quality of life changes the dev team has made recently.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

This is technically true, but it depends on the person selling. There's nothing really stopping anyone from making alts on Aether and selling your gear through them. By this point the lock on world travel would be lifted so statics can have all of their members. All you'd need to is to progress far enough on your main to buy an apartment, get a mannequin, lock your items as a set for purchase and have the alt buy them for 1g or whatever. You're ultimately trading to yourself so it's not "violating" anything.

I've brought this person up before but I had a friend on Dynamis who played on multiple servers and sold furniture. They cleared 1B in profit when Empyreum opened just by crafting on their main and selling the items on multiple servers.

Anyone who is also concerned can keep an eye on the PF for those hiring crafters for savage. You'll just fill orders for whoever hired you and get paid at the end. I did this once and made about 80m gil in 6 hours.

Just a reminder, everyone flooding to Aether is a community made problem. Square didn't force anyone to go there for raiding. We, as a community, assigned Aether as the server to do content on and this is the consequence for it. I don't expect them to do anything to fix it but if they do then awesome. Otherwise, it's probably a good idea to start figuring out how to make things work with what we have. The community wanted convenience over building up their own DC and this is a side effect of it.

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The game developers not thinking through how the feature would be used isn't the playerbase's fault. If the developers made a new class that can one-shot every enemy including bosses, that would be a flaw in the game. It's not the playerbase's fault for using it. It's the developers' fault for adding it.
Similarly, when you give players the option to choose between one server with 10 PFs up, and another with 5 PFs up, the server with 5 is going to be empty because anyone who doesn't go to Aether isn't getting anything done. I've tried raiding on Crystal, and it's not happening any time soon.

I liked the 6.2, 6.4 crafted release schedule. Crafting is something I like to do but if it has to contend with going into Savage as soon as it's available the reality will be that I will not have any time to engage with the crafting. Getting the crafted gear asap won't be an issue for me since me and my static have access to crafters and more gil than we know what to do with, but I think the game would be more fun if this was just pushed to the normal mode release or a week before savage. As it stands, this just adds a level of stress for people that don't have access to crafters that's quite frankly unneeded and makes it so people who raid as soon as the content is available won't have an opportunity to interact with the crafting part of the game when it's the most fun, aka when the new recipes are released and you get to craft stuff for yourself as well. I wish they would just take the feedback that all we want to do when the savage releases is put our noses to the grindstone and work on that until it's done and that moving the crafted gear a week back was one of the best parts of the 6.2, 6.4 release cadence.

Did they provide a reason for this change?

ELI5: what is the problem, exactly?

Day-one crafted gear will be more expensive than it might otherwise have been (which is to say, more profitable for crafters than it might otherwise have been), and... what?

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

ELI5: what is the problem, exactly?

Day-one crafted gear will be more expensive than it might otherwise have been (which is to say, more profitable for crafters than it might otherwise have been), and... what?

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They don't exactly come cheap. Gearing an entire static can take hundreds of millions of Gil.

For world prog statics they would need to hire a crafter team. As much as crafting has been dumbed down most casual crafters won't be able to pump out full sets within hour 1 or 2.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Did they provide a reason for this change?

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Not that I saw.

I don't believe it was a change. They have always done it this way for the first tier.

The change before was specifically for the second and third tiers. They probably didn't see a need to change their formula for the first tier.

I think they genuinely just didn't think about it at all.

That's the price you pay to be in the world first race. (Pun intended.)

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

They don't exactly come cheap. Gearing an entire static can take hundreds of millions of Gil.

For world prog statics they would need to hire a crafter team. As much as crafting has been dumbed down most casual crafters won't be able to pump out full sets within hour 1 or 2.

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This is "the problem?" It seems... limited in scope.

I'm not even saying that it shouldn't be changed, but this seems like a lot of to-do about very little unless I'm missing something (which I might be!)

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

They don't exactly come cheap. Gearing an entire static can take hundreds of millions of Gil.

For world prog statics they would need to hire a crafter team. As much as crafting has been dumbed down most casual crafters won't be able to pump out full sets within hour 1 or 2.

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Endwalker was my first expansion live. I did all gathering/crafting professions before, which was kind of fun, etc... During the expansion, I crafted 2-3 sets for my other jobs and that's it. Overall getting the gathering/crafting gear, materia, then gathering then crafting was a big waste of time. I just should have bought the sets from marketboard and gotten the money back from roulettes and occasional market board sales of random old stuff.

Some crafting components are locked behind combat scrip and I didn't see any player getting that part on their own and looking for a crafter that will craft them the gear using that and at a discount. And like gathered components drop in value near instantly as well...

Not sure if I'll do Dawntrail, but definitely I'm not overmelding, farming "grip gel 2.0" and I'm just going to get the starter set and then the expansion end set - either from scrip or buy the crafted set. This is balanced around 24/7 crafters and I don't want to have anything to do with it.

This is such a miserable change for raiders who craft for their statics. I craft gear and pots for 4-5 people, and my static always goes in on day 1. With crafted gear releasing on the same day as savage, I guess I'm just supposed to... get up the instant the patch launches, gather/craft for 8 hours, and then be rewarded by getting to experience the new savage fights while I'm exhausted, stressed, and annoyed? The recent savage patches were so, so nice for me. I got to play the marketboards on day 1, and have enough time to craft everything for my static without feeling stressed about it. Now day 1 savage is just going to be miserable for everybody doing the same thing.

And sure, I could just tell my static to go buy the gear themselves, but like... I enjoy crafting for people. I like being able to contribute in that way, and know that I'm saving millions of gil for my friends (they try to pay me but I cancel the trade unless it's less than 200k lmao). I also enjoy getting to do new savage fights when I've slept for more than 2 hours, for obvious reasons.

I just really don't understand why they would revert to this, when having a delay between crafted gear and savage was so popular and well-received? It genuinely feels like omnicrafters who raid are being punished for engaging in both aspects of the game, lol. And I also feel bad for raiders who rely on waiting for the prices to drop before savage, or having friends craft for them (who may not want to, considering how shitty it's going to be if they want to do savage day 1 too).

I've gone from being super excited for savage to dreading it, lmao. Might just make everybody buy their gear or go in undergeared and make the healers suffer instead of me, I guess?

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

ELI5: what is the problem, exactly?

Day-one crafted gear will be more expensive than it might otherwise have been (which is to say, more profitable for crafters than it might otherwise have been), and... what?

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There's a good portion of the raiding community who enjoy as many different aspects of the game as they can get their hands on - crafting included. I don't care for making gil (got plenty of it already) but I thoroughly enjoy crafting and gathering as well as helping people, so I make not only my own gear, but sets for people in my statics, FC mates and friends. The savage tier releasing a week later than the crafted gear gives those of us who want to do both the chance to gather and craft at our leisure, then be well rested and ready for savage when it comes out.

Basically, if the releases aren't staggered, people who like to do both are basically forced to choose whether they would rather raid, or craft. It's... possible to do both, but it just ends up being stressful instead of enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by azaleai

Basically, if the releases aren't staggered, people who like to do both are basically forced to choose whether they would rather raid, or craft. It's... possible to do both, but it just ends up being stressful instead of enjoyable.

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To clarify, this really just applies to exactly one day - the first day - and only for people who want to no-life crafting and raiding on that one day, right? By the second or third day, it's basically a non-issue, right?

Again, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be changed back to the EW schedule. The scoping question is just interesting to me.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

To clarify, this really just applies to exactly one day - the first day - and only for people who want to no-life crafting and raiding on that one day, right? By the second or third day, it's basically a non-issue, right?

Again, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be changed back to the EW schedule. The scoping question is just interesting to me.

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sort of, but only for people who are crafting exclusively for raiding. If you want to actually make gil and raid, it's kind of doomed. marketboard savage is slightly more important than normal savage to me. with the previous release strategy (1 week of crafted gear before savage), I could focus on doing marketboard stuff for the first two days, then craft gear for my static, and finish early enough that I can sleep and eat on the day savage releases. Idk why people buy gear day 1 when savage isn't even out in the first place lmao, but on the patches they gave us a delay, prices would be pretty high on the first couple of days, and then drop off a cliff. I think having savage/gear release on the same day is really, really good for crafters who don't raid, because gear will sell faster at higher prices because raiders actually need it immediately, but it (once again) ends up in a spot where people who engage in multiple aspects of the game are actively punished for doing so.

But for people who weren't selling stuff either way, it's still a bit of an issue on the next couple of days. Assuming you still decide to craft gear for multiple people, including yourself, you likely won't be getting any sleep or any type of rest, and you'll be trapped in front of your computer for a very long period of time. By the time you're finished gathering/crafting (because timed nodes mean that you can only go so fast), you'll be going into savage. And then you're in raid for a long time and go to sleep super late. If you have responsibilities (work/school, since patches release on weekdays), you have to wake up and go to work, and then raid again once you get home. It's obviously doable (since we had to do it before they did the 1 week delay on gear), but it's honestly really, really miserable. Making my static waste millions of gil on stuff I could make for free sucks, not getting to experience the savage fights you've been waiting for as soon as you can sucks, and the only way to avoid the first two is to grind until you're physically and mentally exhausted.

And obviously, taking a week off of work so you can play video games and not neglect your health for multiple days isn't possible for most people. And ofc this is just a video game, and it's not a big deal. It just still feels really bad now that we've gotten to experience how much nicer having a delay was.

as a very casual raider i do think the crafted gear is massively overrated for anyone who doesnt raid 24/7 in the first week. but even i dont see any reason why it shouldnt come out before the raids....

what are the disadvantages of getting crafter gear a week sooner?
and didnt they even say shortly after how well received that change everywhere has been?

for a game that listens to its players, respects their players time and is (to an ridiculous amount) against player stress, this is an ununderstandable and terrible desicion. recently i really started to question how great their vision for this game actually can be. not even sure if i wanna call it a game anymore

I'm really not sure what their logic in reverting things back to how they were before is when they acknowledged the change was liked.

This benefits literally nobody except for the hardcore crafters/gatherers who can price gouge people harder due to the increased urgency in wanting to get gear to start savage with.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm really not sure what their logic in reverting things back to how they were before is when they acknowledged the change was liked.

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I feel rather confident that the change was for the second and third tiers specifically, because it was part of the change that delayed savage for those tiers.

The first tier has always had a savage delay already, so they most likely didn't think of changing the first tier. SE is very formulaic, right down to the mini patches where you can trace a .X8 patch from one expansion delivering the same minor adjustment in the same patch in previous expansions. I've even flat out glimpsed evidence of copy+paste in the patch notes before where some of the paste wasn't modified. :D

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I feel rather confident that the change was for the second and third tiers specifically, because it was part of the change that delayed savage for those tiers.

The first tier has always had a savage delay already, so they most likely didn't think of changing the first tier. SE is very formulaic, right down to the mini patches where you can trace a .X8 patch from one expansion delivering the same minor adjustment in the same patch in previous expansions. I've even flat out glimpsed evidence of copy+paste in the patch notes before where some of the paste wasn't modified. :D

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Yeah if they go ahead with things as they are, we'll have to see how the second and third tiers are. If they have the delay, then it's very possible SE was just keeping to the same pattern they used last expansion.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

To clarify, this really just applies to exactly one day - the first day - and only for people who want to no-life crafting and raiding on that one day, right? By the second or third day, it's basically a non-issue, right?

Again, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be changed back to the EW schedule. The scoping question is just interesting to me.

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Sorta! It would depend on the person in question. One full set of gear takes a few hours when you account for waiting on timed nodes and the actual crafting. This doesn't cover the time it takes to farm up the tome mats as well because honestly that's very reliant on if you have roulette bonuses waiting or not/if you have some stashed from before the patch.

It's not uncommon to have 1 or 2 people in a static doing all of the crafting for the group rather than everyone making their own sets, so 8-16+ hours of crafting to get a group as high of an ilevel as they can be before going in (not a necessity, but it makes things more survivable/makes bosses die faster) is a fairly reasonable estimate. I'm not sure many people would be too keen on hopping into brand new high end content after ~ten hours straight of staring at the screen...

Using myself as an example again, I craft almost-full sets for usually around 5-6 people out of the 8 in each of my statics (including myself on different roles/characters) and I'm usually doing savage with 2-3 groups every tier, so that compounds to something more like 40+ hours getting everyone geared up.

Granted, the earliest one of my groups goes in is Wednesday evenings so even if the gear and the tier drop the same week I have a day and a bit to get the first people going in at least some gear. I do tend to prioritise those who raid soonest and very specifically ask them to tell me which pieces they don't need (stuff they have covered by tome or normal raid gear) and make everyone a handful of left side pieces just for the extra vit if I don't have the time to make it all, so it's not like it's the end of the world.

So to answer your question, for the vast majority of players it is just a day one thing, but for the crazy types like me it's something more like 4-5 days.

But... yeah, having the extra week to get the crafting done without the time crunch pressure is certainly a change I appreciated! :D