Some DRK changes seem annoyingly simple yet are ignored....

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I think the current issue with removing that functionality of TBN is you'd ultimately be removing the last real unique job mechanic of dark knight, in favor of making it a 25s Thrill of Battle with no flare to it. It would also be stripping DRK lot of flexibility in the use of mitigation as having Oblation and TBN on low cooldowns as separate buttons does has a lot of benefit to it, some people refuse to see it but it doesn't mean its not there.

Dark Knight needs more mechanics that reward it for taking damage, as I do view it was the revenge tank, so what you run into is that experienced dark knight players are already completely used to the TBN cost and its a borderline nonfactor, while to anyone who doesnt play the job hardcore view it was a major limiting factor. In actuality TBN does indeed give you a notable upside. It allows you to prevent overcapping MP without actually spending it, this is notable because you now have the ability to effectively enter a burst window with 13,000 MP playing into DRK's strength of stockpiling attacks for burst window that lead to its meta dominance of Endwalker.

I dont know about you but I'd rather have it as it is now than a 25s Thrill of Battle with 10% mit, and nothing else notable about it.

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Being able to line up an extra Edge isn't really a bonus point for Dark knight when they streamline all the tank dps throughput irrespective of superior utility or sustain.
Rather, at that point it becomes jank. It's not rewarding, it's an extra step required to do the same as all the others.

I personally don't enjoy the whole saving DA for the burst thing at all. We have busy enough burst as it is. All it does is constrain your use of TBN and relies on minute by minute memorization of tank busters. Using TBN for last second clutches is already finicky enough without having to remember to weave in the DA Edge you are already holding in the same second.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Being able to line up an extra Edge isn't really a bonus point for Dark knight when they streamline all the tank dps throughput irrespective of superior utility or sustain.
Rather, at that point it becomes jank. It's not rewarding, it's an extra step required to do the same as all the others.

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Then don't play the job? I swear I've seen you quit tanking in Dawntrail like 5 times now.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Then don't play the job? I swear I've seen you quit tanking in Dawntrail like 5 times now.

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I'm not really playing right now, and i am not planning on playing tank in Dawntrail.

You do see a lot of people who want stuff removed just because they don't like it when really they should just play a different job.

Keeping one of the only forms of tank skill expression still left in the game = good
Removing one of the only forms of tank skill expression still left in the game = bad

It really isn't that complicated.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

You do see a lot of people who want stuff removed just because they don't like it when really they should just play a different job.

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This is my general stance on it. If you dont like TBN cause of the resource cost, fine, we have 3 other tanks with free-use mitigation, and if you want a similar busy feel GNB is right there.
If its an aesthetics thing, WAR's got some nice animations and a big weapon too.

I understand the frustration with the state of DRK, but I do feel like a lot of complaints come from people who probably wouldn't have even liked how it played in Stormblood.
I'll agree there was more flavor, but there was always a level oGCD spam, and there were just as many kinks and flaws in its design back then, it never really had a deep GCD focus.
Yeah it had an alt combo, but emnity combos weren't real, you'd used them like once, and then emnity was basically not even handled by the tanks beyond that point.

The problem is that it's not really designed to be used for making the already busy burst even busier, or for making you restrain your most reactive mitigation. It very much works against the design of both TBN and the DRK's burst phase in an unintended way (not that unintended usage is always bad, but here where it's at odds with the actual main purpose of TBN it definitely is).

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

The problem is that it's not really designed to be used for making the already busy burst even busier, or for making you restrain your most reactive mitigation. It very much works against the design of both TBN and the DRK's burst phase in an unintended way (not that unintended usage is always bad, but here where it's at odds with the actual main purpose of TBN it definitely is).

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The answer to this is to keep 3k mp in your pocket unless you really need the damage or dont think you'll need it. I don't see why this is a bad thing.

I can however see this becomming an issue into DT with the nerfed MP rates from new bloodweapon, as its now only going to be giving you 2400 mp, just shy of a TBN usage, but I view this as an issue with MP rates more than than the skill having a cost at all.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

The answer to this is to keep 3k mp in your pocket unless you really need the damage or dont think you'll need it. I don't see why this is a bad thing.

I can however see this becomming an issue into DT with the nerfed MP rates from new bloodweapon, as its now only going to be giving you 2400 mp, just shy of a TBN usage, but I view this as an issue with MP rates more than than the skill having a cost at all.

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I'm talking about saving DA for the burst.

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Originally Posted by JoshiKousei

Keeping one of the only forms of tank skill expression still left in the game = good
Removing one of the only forms of tank skill expression still left in the game = bad

It really isn't that complicated.

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It needs to be rewarded though. But it's not rewarding.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

It needs to be rewarded though. But it's not rewarding.

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The reward is more damage under buffs. Tanks are so dead that this is the only thing we have left.

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Originally Posted by JoshiKousei

The reward is more damage under buffs. Tanks are so dead that this is the only thing we have left.

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But all the tanks literally do the same dps now.
So it doesn't really feel rewarding to optimise the job anymore.

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Originally Posted by JoshiKousei

The reward is more damage under buffs. Tanks are so dead that this is the only thing we have left.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

But all the tanks literally do the same dps now.
So it doesn't really feel rewarding to optimise the job anymore.

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Dont forget. The reward is not one more Flood/Edge. You would've gotten that Flood/Edge anyways if you hadn't spend the mp on TBN. The reward is just the extra potency that one ogcd gained from buffs. Just wanted to point that out.

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

Dont forget. The reward is not one more Flood/Edge. You would've gotten that Flood/Edge anyways if you hadn't spend the mp on TBN. The reward is just the extra potency that one ogcd gained from buffs. Just wanted to point that out.

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I am well aware, but again.. The tanks all do the same dps now.
So it doesn't feel rewarding anymore.