Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vespar

Im not saying this fixes everything, but if you have an Nvidia GPU, do yourself a favor and download Nvidia Geforce Experience. Once that's installed, Use Alt+Z while in the benchmark and add some game filters. I notice a massive improvement, by making just a few tweaks to Brightness/Contrast, Color & Sharpen. (Sharpen seems to remove the weird faded/haziness in the game by itself)

https://i.imgur.com/VbUrIVH.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/2apbvbM.jpeg

Results:
https://i.imgur.com/bT9L7gy.png

---

Using this feature myself on many, many games :) Good of you to point it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salzkartoffel

Let's just call it for what it is: This graphic update is a hot steaming mess. Not just small texture issues but anatomical ones, too. We have clipping issues and seam- issues left right and center. Hair textures got worse here and there looking like Playstation 2 design. It somehow looks like we've lost polygons in the making which is absolutely atrocious. The images from the Thread creator are a good example. I found some on my own as well.

Some examples which don't look serviceable at all. Plastic textures, flat textures which are bent into all directions to give the illusion of modelled hair. I didn't check other hairstyles because I got sad.
https://i.imgur.com/vGI9Htx.png
https://i.imgur.com/HVxyR38.png
https://i.imgur.com/Pph3rBZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/ehvdEFV.png

---

complaining about hairstyles, which look bad already since 10 years lol
HD texture definetly didnt make this worse, it was bad from the beginning

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValG

I definitely agree that the lips look worse across the board now. I also made a couple of posts, one about the bioluminiscent elezen ears and about face 4 midlander (which shows a lot of the stuff mentioned here plus heavier makeup for no reason).
The posts, in case OP wants to add them to the list (both have screenshots):

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...dlander-face-4
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6437053

I don't think making the graphical update optional is realistic, but there are definitely areas that need more work, specially the lips, the skin and hair textures and the "aliveness" of the eyes.

---

I don't think the subsurface scattering on the Elezen ears is too strong at all. It's pretty in line with how I'd expect them to behave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eluvyel

I don't think the subsurface scattering on the Elezen ears is too strong at all. It's pretty in line with how I'd expect them to behave.

---

The effect showed in the inn picture definitely feels like it's too much, at least for me. Also, it's not only the strenght of the effect, but the color not matching the actual skin tone that's the problem too.

Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te fangs are WAY too short. The males got shortened, and some of the females might as well not have fangs anymore. It was our defining feature! Seekers got the cat eyes, Keepers got sharp fangs! They've really downplayed our biggest defining feature.

https://i.imgur.com/3KSc7xp.jpeg

(updated with same gamma on both)

"Black" skin got lighter again, even if slightly, and it's like all hair color have been washed out.

(already lost the black skin back in 1.0, now we can't even have black hair)

While I think some of the complaints are a bit dramatic, I do agree that the lip shape changes are unfortunate.

https://i.postimg.cc/nzQ6h0b7/flat-lip.jpg

They've become much flatter and lost their depth.

The :3 shape needs restoring to bring this in-line with the original designs. It's a subtle but meaningful change.

Otherwise, I'm happy with my character. I think Viera got the worst of this update - they seem rather odd looking across the board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

WoW doesn't let you use the old models, and haven't since I believe Legion.

It was a WoD only moment. The only way to play the old models is to play classic.

---

WoW also didn't upgrade/update its engine with WoD. It literally just made new character meshes, textures and rigs.

Dawntrail updates the entire way shaders are handled and objects and characters respond to lighting (which is also higher quality), and how shadows are cast in turn. Asking for an option to choose the old characters is like saying "just give us the option to flip a switch on a fundamental engine-level alteration."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

WoW also didn't upgrade/update its engine with WoD. It literally just made new character meshes, textures and rigs.

Dawntrail updates the entire way shaders are handled and objects and characters respond to lighting (which is also higher quality), and how shadows are cast in turn. Asking for an option to choose the old characters is like saying "just give us the option to flip a switch on a fundamental engine-level alteration."

---

That is correct, they have new lighting. But that is not what I wish to revert. I'm talking the old meshes and texture. This is not just a problem of lighting, but they fucking just added more polys and just made everything rounder without sculpting shit. New lighting is something I am fine with, but the way they altered the faces of especially m viera is just not it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValG

The effect showed in the inn picture definitely feels like it's too much, at least for me. Also, it's not only the strenght of the effect, but the color not matching the actual skin tone that's the problem too.

---

I have to respectfully disagree. That is EXACTLY how cartilage behaves in that scenario. Here's some other examples of SSC from RDR2 and Uncharted. It looks identical IRL but I wanted to stick with video games. Just hold a flashlight to your finger, it's the same effect. If anything, it's kind of toned down.

https://i.imgur.com/2T2CjEe.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eluvyel

I have to respectfully disagree. That is EXACTLY how cartilage behaves in that scenario. Here's some other examples of SSC from RDR2 and Uncharted. It looks identical IRL but I wanted to stick with video games. Just hold a flashlight to your finger, it's the same effect. If anything, it's kind of toned down.

https://i.imgur.com/2T2CjEe.png

---

So I'm not allowed to feel like it's too much because of what other games have done? Also, I'm mostly talking about how it looks on my duskwight which happens to have grey skin so the pink effect sticks like a sore thumb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValG

So I'm not allowed to feel like it's too much because of what other games have done? Also, I'm mostly talking about how it looks on my duskwight which happens to have grey skin so the pink effect sticks like a sore thumb.

---

Of course you're allowed to not like it but you made it sound like it's just not looking right. As for your skin, it's irrelevant. It glows red because living tissue is translucent to red and near-infrared. All wave lengths of visible light get absorbed except red. The living beings actual skin color has little to no effect on this. But we should probably stop clogging up this thread now. Hope you all get a character you're happy with in the end!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eluvyel

Of course you're allowed to not like it but you made it sound like it's just not looking right. As for your skin, it's irrelevant. It glows red because living tissue is translucent to red and near-infrared. All wave lengths of visible light get absorbed except red. The living beings actual skin color has little to no effect on this. But we should probably stop clogging up this thread now. Hope you all get a character you're happy with in the end!

---

Oddly Lalafell do not have this issue on their ears if they wanted realism so I find it an odd mistake on Elezen given it isn't present on the other long ear race.

I use the male midlander face #4 because I love the prominent cheekbones. I feel it gives my hyur some chatacter as not a lot of faces in the game have that sunken cheek look to them. The graphical update took this feature away as it made the face overall rounder and softer. I was able to get some of the cheekbone definition back by making the skin several shades darker, but even then it's missing a lot of the definition.

I don't hate the new look but this looks nothing like the character I've been using for years.

edit: will they be giving free fantasias with this update? because the only way to make my character look decent is to change a lot of features and whatnot


. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6625be7826f3c&

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xeronia

Oddly Lalafell do not have this issue on their ears if they wanted realism so I find it an odd mistake on Elezen given it isn't present on the other long ear race.

---

It's really odd that lala ears don't have support for ssc yet. I can only assume it's not done for them.

edit:

I also want to add that ssc on Elezen ears was a talking point on their panel so it's not like it's unintended or anything. .

Sorry to close too release for changes now.

I'm not sure anyone asked for realism, honestly I thought the graphics 'upgrade' was going to be texture upscales but I see their idea of an upgrade is to make everything rounder/smoother and adding their idea of 'beautification' without much thought to how the original model felt. I feel the new lighting/skin makes the characters look really uncanny, the game's style was never realistic- it's actually something I struggled with coming from GW2.

I've never in my life in an MMO grown attached to my character or felt genuine love/care for it- to me a character was just something to dress up. I grew to love my character in this game due to the wonderful story, I cannot fault people feeling sad over how their characters don't look like what they have grown to see and love over the years.

I don't believe this graphical update is ready for release...

I'm mostly happy with how my character turned out, but they took my fangs! One of the defining traits of Moon cats and the whole reason to pick them over Sun cats. This is so not cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rueby

I'm not sure anyone asked for realism, honestly I thought the graphics 'upgrade' was going to be texture upscales but I see their idea of an upgrade is to make everything rounder/smoother and adding their idea of 'beautification' without much thought to how the original model felt. I feel the new lighting/skin makes the characters look really uncanny, the game's style was never realistic- it's actually something I struggled with coming from GW2.

I've never in my life in an MMO grown attached to my character or felt genuine love/care for it- to me a character was just something to dress up. I grew to love my character in this game due to the wonderful story, I cannot fault people feeling sad over how their characters don't look like what they have grown to see and love over the years.

I don't believe this graphical update is ready for release...

---

Couldn't have worded it better myself. Seeing someone so different on the benchmark after 8 years was incredibly jarring and upsetting. :(

Adding onto the issues with male Midlanders. I use face 1 for my own and he looks more doll-like in the benchmark. Brows are also paler in comparison, and eye and lip shapes have changed. Not the worst changes that can happen and I very much know the benchmark is not an accurate portrayal of the new graphics, but I am overall not very thrilled about what I'm seeing. Very uncanny valley and slightly unrecognizable.

Left is benchmark, right is current graphics.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...be958b95bc518&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7ed11b4c0c0e2&

Hey! Wanted to bring up another thread to add to the index of issues. Hellsguard Roegadyn also have some smudge issues on the nose. Can you add this to the Arbitrary/Unwanted Changes list?

Roegadyn Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PompoPompPump

they fucking just added more polys and just made everything rounder without sculpting shit

---

Breasts are still low polly :rolleyes:

As for textures, they were all upscaled with AI. So it will take a lot of time for humans to go trough everything that does not look right and manually fix.

It will be very awkward if modders will fix the issues faster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hiedra

I use the male midlander face #4 because I love the prominent cheekbones. I feel it gives my hyur some chatacter as not a lot of faces in the game have that sunken cheek look to them. The graphical update took this feature away as it made the face overall rounder and softer. I was able to get some of the cheekbone definition back by making the skin several shades darker, but even then it's missing a lot of the definition.

I don't hate the new look but this looks nothing like the character I've been using for years.

edit: will they be giving free fantasias with this update? because the only way to make my character look decent is to change a lot of features and whatnot


. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6625be7826f3c&

---

yes they said they will be giving a free fantasia to everyone.

I don't even know anymore. This looks nothing like my character to me.
https://i.imgur.com/xWu0iD4.png

Male viera here, and other then the fact I can't truly use the hair I want to in the benchmark (I mean I can, with the copy paste method, but its not updated). I quite like how my character looks, and how most looked when I played around with the creator.

What people have to keep in mind is that this is NOT THE FINAL PRODUCT.

If you notice clipping, or pieces of texture missing, POINT IT OUT. Remember when bun boys slouched like 50% more in the benchmark and they fixed it based on feedback? They still slouch of course but not nearly as bad as they did in the benchmark.

Right now they are going through their QA process, and this is frankly part of it. They aren't collecting your screenshots from the benchmark just because they want to reward people. They are collecting information to make sure their estimations on minimum and recommended requirements are accurate, or if they have to change them. The media tour will also be part of this, they will take feedback from the people that are a part of it. They obviously can't make MASSIVE changes at this point, but small things can be tweaked, if not in time for 7.0 itself, then for a hotfix or later patch.

But also... not everyone is going to be happy. Not everyone WAS happy with how it was before. I'm sure most of us will adjust soon enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justausername

But also... not everyone is going to be happy. Not everyone WAS happy with how it was before. I'm sure most of us will adjust soon enough.

---

It still makes more sense to keep the models the "same but better" over changing them to maybe succeed in appealing to people who didn't like the old version, at the cost of definitely upsetting the people who were happy with it.

Honestly idk if anyone pointed it our, but scales on au ra look so... butchered. It's as if the were saved in JPEG and then cut out using magic wand. There are some weird artifacts and pixels here and there too..
https://sun9-51.userapi.com/impg/yuO...199&type=album
https://sun9-55.userapi.com/impg/wGt...978&type=album

And some hairstyles have.. the effect of badly grown up roots lol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4b299385f6e34&

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It still makes more sense to keep the models the "same but better" over changing them to maybe succeed in appealing to people who didn't like the old version, at the cost of definitely upsetting the people who were happy with it.

---

Yeah, if they wanted to have different faces... make them new options? Don't alter what was already there? I'd rather everyone get an extra face that has whatever the devs are trying to chase here rather than the old faces having features get totally reworked for no clear reason. It's not like the lacking eye shine which is just a consequence of the new lighting, several faces have features that are outright different shapes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justausername

Male viera here, and other then the fact I can't truly use the hair I want to in the benchmark (I mean I can, with the copy paste method, but its not updated). I quite like how my character looks, and how most looked when I played around with the creator.

What people have to keep in mind is that this is NOT THE FINAL PRODUCT.

If you notice clipping, or pieces of texture missing, POINT IT OUT. Remember when bun boys slouched like 50% more in the benchmark and they fixed it based on feedback? They still slouch of course but not nearly as bad as they did in the benchmark.

Right now they are going through their QA process, and this is frankly part of it. They aren't collecting your screenshots from the benchmark just because they want to reward people. They are collecting information to make sure their estimations on minimum and recommended requirements are accurate, or if they have to change them. The media tour will also be part of this, they will take feedback from the people that are a part of it. They obviously can't make MASSIVE changes at this point, but small things can be tweaked, if not in time for 7.0 itself, then for a hotfix or later patch.

But also... not everyone is going to be happy. Not everyone WAS happy with how it was before. I'm sure most of us will adjust soon enough.

---

Very on point, changes wont happen now. They will happen later down the road..

I want to add the way some characters have a shine along their nose makes their skin look/seem oily/greasy/waxy which lends to that uncanny look..? I'm really puzzled, something doesn't look right to me if I compare people's pre/post benchmark pictures. Some lips feel like they got a lip job done; bulging outwards and plump???

Also giving characters defined Philtrum when there were none makes it look really strange. Adding matte where there was gloss...Adding gloss where there was none...

Okay, again, I know the benchmark is not 100 percent final and there are changes to be expected. But I did comparisons with my main (face 1 male Elezen) and the difference is drastic. DT graphics gives me a character that I don't recognize at all. The thinning of the eyebrows and lips makes this a whole new character. I do like that the nose they have is more angular, but that's about it.

I sincerely hope there will be an option to use the old graphics. I'm not sure if I'll be happy with the new graphics if this will end up being the final outcome.

Top is current graphics; bottom is benchmark.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJZxBWX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJZz9JX...jpg&name=large

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Somnolence

Breasts are still low polly :rolleyes:

As for textures, they were all upscaled with AI. So it will take a lot of time for humans to go trough everything that does not look right and manually fix.

It will be very awkward if modders will fix the issues faster

---

Modders will do faster cause for most its hobby not a job. Their not being told what they can and cannot work on.

Besides racial traits (Keeper Fangs) and obvious visual bugs like Hair/Beard clipping, it's really hard for me to see the changes as anything other than a massive upgrade.

Sadly, it's not up to me to decide what people like or dislike for their own characters.
I don't think most people are complaining in bad faith, but I also don't know if people are just too attached to the PS3 look because how long it's been with us.

I guess I hope they can maybe tweak eye glow a bit to accentuate it, even if there's little light, and tweak dark skin tones a bit.

I said this before, and I need to stop posting because I'm just repeating myself, but I really just hope the best for everyone.

I know we all love our characters.
https://imgur.com/ECzm2RA.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vhsgod

Okay, again, I know the benchmark is not 100 percent final and there are changes to be expected. But I did comparisons with my main (face 1 male Elezen) and the difference is drastic. DT graphics gives me a character that I don't recognize at all. The thinning of the eyebrows and lips makes this a whole new character. I do like that the nose they have is more angular, but that's about it.

I sincerely hope there will be an option to use the old graphics. I'm not sure if I'll be happy with the new graphics if this will end up being the final outcome. The only thing I like more in the Benchmark is the skin appears to have more texture, but the lighting and shading is horrendous. His ear also appears to have been stung by a bee. In both versions they also really need to work on how hair parts over the ears, and can hopefully get neckwear to contour better. It's very polygonal.

Top is current graphics; bottom is benchmark.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJZxBWX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJZz9JX...jpg&name=large

---

This is one where I see little to no improvement

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Besides racial traits (Keeper Fangs) and obvious visual bugs like Hair/Beard clipping, it's really hard for me to see the changes as anything other than a massive upgrade.

Sadly, it's not up to me to decide what people like or dislike for their own characters.
I don't think most people are complaining in bad faith, but I also don't know if people are just too attached to the PS3 look because how long it's been with us.

I guess I hope they can maybe tweak eye glow a bit to accentuate it, even if there's little light, and tweak dark skin tones a bit.

I said this before, and I need to stop posting because I'm just repeating myself, but I really just hope the best for everyone.

I know we all love our characters.
https://imgur.com/ECzm2RA.png

---

I think it depends on what face you are using. For a lot of the female characters the changes are minimal.

But males have some faces with more distinct/harsher features and those features were lost to the update since the update made everything softer/smoother.

I would also agree that some changes completely change look of character and would either appreciate more customization to keep original look or have optional switch to new character models.

https://i.imgur.com/2FFP1K1.jpeg

Some female faces also got hit with the inexplicable major changes bat, tbh. Plus, I've yet to see a female Viera face that doesn't have inexplicable lip changes--you can see them even in DiaDeem's example, the entire mouth (not just the outer shape of the lips) is different now and not in a good way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hiedra

But males have some faces with more distinct/harsher features and those features were lost to the update since the update made everything softer/smoother.

---

I really can't argue with that. I don't have a male character so I can't really speak for experience.

If anything, I'll agree with the general sentiment that a more liberal/artistic eye glow may go a long way in winning people over. Obviously eyes wouldn't reflect light from every angle, but we're still dealing with stylized graphics. It's ok to break the rules.

Other than that (and darkening some skin tones a bit)... I really don't know what they can do realistically. I love what they did, but not everyone else does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It still makes more sense to keep the models the "same but better" over changing them to maybe succeed in appealing to people who didn't like the old version, at the cost of definitely upsetting the people who were happy with it.

---

Do you really think in the next two months they are just going to REVERSE everything they have spent the last couple years on? What people on here are demanding could easily delay Dawntrail by a year. They aren't going to do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Do you really think in the next two months they are just going to REVERSE everything they have spent the last couple years on? What people on here are demanding could easily delay Dawntrail by a year. They aren't going to do that.

---

there are still massive problems that can be fixed in shorter time, that are not the complete overhaul

Nobody asks them no change the entire model, but there are some layers of textures that just look weird and changing them will fix problems like waxy gloss.
There are problems with hair textures clipping on itse;f that also can be fixed in a matter of couple hours.
Or au ra jpeg scales textures, that are just ugly.

They didnt work for years on just character models, and nobody asks them to redo the whole locations or lighting, but some races/genders are just butchered.