7.0 Graphic Update - Lalafell Feedback (please give me back my smudge!!)

Sorry for doing a second post that's essentially the same as the previous one.
After a night's worth of sleep and drying most of my tears, I decided it may be sensible to be as specific as possible with what I'd like to see changed.

I think it's a fair compromise between the existing version and what they were going for with the updated look in the benchmark, and hope this or another post in the same spirit gets through to the developers before changes are finalized.

https://i.imgur.com/lziiqb6.png

Another thing I take slight issue with is the apparent thin-ness of the new ears. They look a lot less sturdy than the previous design, which to me feels out of place for Lalafell. But this is a low-priority complaint, and I'm sure a lot of people will prefer the newer, more detailed version.

Thank you for reading.

After the disappointment that was my bunboy, I'm really happy with my lala!
She looks pretty much the same. The eyes is the only part that looks off to me, they seem more rounded which, combined with the straight mouth, gives her a weird shell-shocked look? She also seems more dead inside but I think that's just the bad character customization lighting because she doesn't look as weird during the benchmark.

(Before is on the left, after is on the right)
https://i.imgur.com/HYfJcns.png
https://i.imgur.com/R7Vysnk.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyu-Kyu

After the disappointment that was my bunboy, I'm really happy with my lala!
She looks pretty much the same. The eyes is the only part that looks off to me, they seem more rounded which, combined with the straight mouth, gives her a weird shell-shocked look? She also seems more dead inside but I think that's just the bad character customization lighting because she doesn't look as weird during the benchmark.

(Before is on the left, after is on the right)
https://i.imgur.com/HYfJcns.png
https://i.imgur.com/R7Vysnk.png

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I wonder if it would look better if they haven’t removed the catchlight? The upper part of the eye is a bit darker, but I think the dot being missing is what really makes it seem like a glazed over look.

I’m mostly sad about the lips, because after fiddling with lip colors, it just doesn’t seem like they’re as full and wide as they used to be. And on a tiny race, that’s really noticeable!

I think my only issue with my lala is how much his eyelashes were nerfed - they were quite bushy before and now they are straightened / almost gone.

https://i.imgur.com/U4h2Lwc_d.webp?m...fidelity=grand

Nevermind the smudge being not visible - it IS visible. It's just. Red.
I loved the darker nose smudge, and I fantasia back and forth between highlander/lalafel like, like, an unreasonable amount.

The fact it looks darker on lighter skin tones just seems like they forgot to test it on darker skin tones in the first place. > -> I desperately hope they fix it.

I also don't like how the lack of gloss on the lips now makes it look like she just doesn't have a top lip anymore. She ate it. It's gone. But the gloss issue I have on my highlander too.

https://i.imgur.com/UkoHBlE.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

For my Lala, I really dislike how dark they made the eye outline. Our nose also seems to melt into our face (this is hopefully just lighting dependent), and we seem to have lost our upper lips. :(

Before:
https://i.imgur.com/8WXX0yG.jpg
After:
https://i.imgur.com/XsF0iqa.jpg




Also, this horror:
Before:
https://i.imgur.com/Tak78Z5.jpg
After:
https://i.imgur.com/I1B9fil.jpg

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O boy.... I hope there is an option to use old model...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

O boy.... I hope there is an option to use old model...

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My Lala is the only character of mine that I'm 100% unhappy with. I can only hope that once I get her in-game the changes aren't as stark.

Those teeth though....don't think any amount of lighting is going to fix that. lol :(

I like some changes, but the mouth looks weird and the eye shadow shape is different. I like the pupils though, they looks nice.
Her skin is so pale in the new lighting, I might have to change the update.
Left = 6.0 | Right = Dawntrail benchmark.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...279f6cdecce99& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7c83255a6afb2&

I like some of the changes but some just look really bad

https://i.imgur.com/qXu6TKO.png

I've never posted on the forums before, but I hope if I reply to this maybe they will give me my nose smudge back.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1f3cc9345cd03& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...87d86c7f2171c&

Her eyebrows feel less thick too, and she doesn't look as grumpy. I'm sad...even if it's a small difference, it's important to me. She looks ok in cutscenes but...It's still not the same without her eyebrows and her nose smudge. If it's not fixed, I guess I'll fanta :<

I wasn't sure if I should bring this same complaint up because I wasn't sure if it bothered many others as well, so seeing a thread already up about it is nice.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the graphical update, but the nose nerf is a bit sad to me as unless I'm comparing them in the CC I probably wont immediately notice if someone has one in-game or not due to how much lighter the coloring is. Im a bit sad about the change in shape of the smudge to make the color change more gradual than just a triangular shape too, but thats something I can get used to more easily than the change in color.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...c5909f02fa896&

While I think the nose marking facial feature needs to be darker on light skin to make it more noticeable, it not scaling with skin tone is also a huge oversight. Where it used to be distinct on both dark and light skin, now its very light on light skin and just looks red on dark skin so now your lala looks like hes caught a cold.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...81616aee3742b&

It also completely disappears on warmer tones. Somehow now the nose is slightly darker Without the nose darkening feature than With it.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d55c0bf50b36d&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0dc5a80b48673&

This is also a much bigger issue for male faces 3 and 4 and for all the faces on female models. Male faces 1 and 2 coloring is much more obvious because of the shape of it, but is still much lighter and still has the same red problem on dark skin. Meanwhile the difference on the female model is shocking in how drastic it is.

Im still really pleased with the graphics update in general (I have other complaints about the teeth/jaw structure and upper lip/eyelash removals, but those seem to be issues with most races currently so hopefully something will be done about them) but I think this is one of those things that makes Lalafell who they are and by reducing it like this it takes away one of their more distinct optional racial traits. So I really hope the colors can be fixed in some way. In a perfect world it would be nice to get a Dark/Light/None option the way makeup does, but given the way facial features work that's probably unrealistic currently.

Thank you for the thread :)

Face 4 chiming in here asking where my cute raggedy anne nose is! :(
https://i.imgur.com/UbSxF8s.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/KkPKvwl.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Also, this horror:
After:
https://i.imgur.com/I1B9fil.jpg

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There are some downright creepy looking animations in the benchmark itself too. I think it's because they've copied the mouth rigging across to all character models regardless of race, so some of the mouth movement looks very unnatural and out of place on Lalafell. Looking forward to that in the 30-odd hours of cutscenes in Dawntrail...

i've seen a lot of valid complaints and helpful critique, which is nice. i'm not sure if this is just a lighting thing, but the lip colors feel SO off to me. my lips were very visible and blended nicely into the face, but they ended up looking like concealer lips in the benchmark under certain lighting conditions - especially in ul'dah. i'm hoping this is just due to the test lighting.

✧I genuinely was hoping that we would get an improvement on the lips, mainly focused on exaggerating and making them much more fuller than before! I'm glad that I am not the only one who was disappointed with the reduced lips.
It feels as if Lalafell's features got waaay too smoothed out when in reality the lalafell player base wished for more exaggerated features. The lips are look practically the same now with how they were smoothed down, facial textures as well-mainly on face 3 with the freckles. I believe the eyes could also do good with a bit more shapeliness and exaggeration.

As a whole everything is translating mostly well, though another expectation that the players had for this update were also more facial feature options as well. Though understand time crunch-hopefully it's something we can get in a later update after we see an improvement on the current new models.

✗Current issues that I am personally seeing with lalafell updated models.
-eyelashes aren't ass dense and the texture above is a bit ashy on dark skin tones
-lips needed more fullness and exaggeration
-eye SHAPES have translated well, BUT have been smoothed out a bit too much when we need more definition to them. Stronger slants/curves/droopiness/etc.
-nose darkening setting doesn't actually darken the nose but lightens it-would be wonderful as two separate options though
-face 3's gradient isn't smooth as it should be with the nose

:o So far things have been turning out really well! I have a lot of suggestions like others but I would like to focus my current opinion on the way lalafells are presented in the game!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJ4zcXW...g&name=900x900https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJ5Lk4X...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJ7rGEW...g&name=900x900https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJ7z92X...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJ6d-6W...png&name=small

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KhujaRela

Dissappointed falls short on how I feel about my lalafell changes...
She's been stripped of all life force, personality, and appearance

-Eyes dead, no shine, also why now you can see the pupil? She is supposed to be a Dunesfolk, all the eye should look yellow and bright.

-Lips have changed shape and shine, now they are like a stripe of paint, she also lost her smile?? why

-She has dark circles under her eyes now, why?? She looks like she hasn't sleep in 3 days

-Hair looks like plastic strings...

I honestly don't understand all these changes, and I don't like it, I'm sad and frustrated, specially on the eyes and lips, changed their face completely


https://i.ibb.co/0XSHtQf/nooooo.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/TMNg2DR/segundacomparacion.png

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwalafell

i've seen a lot of valid complaints and helpful critique, which is nice. i'm not sure if this is just a lighting thing, but the lip colors feel SO off to me. my lips were very visible and blended nicely into the face, but they ended up looking like concealer lips in the benchmark under certain lighting conditions - especially in ul'dah. i'm hoping this is just due to the test lighting.

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I've been having the same issue with the concealer lips, even when I get the lips to look right in the character creation they always seem to disappear. I think its because of how they've been flattened almost. When I look at my lala from above/below their lips appear how I want, but in the benchmark cutscenes they disappear when viewed head on. Honestly looks like they either don't have lips or are sucking them in most of the time, it's very strange to look at

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emitans

You can see how light the nose gets in direct sunlight in the benchmark. I don't like it.
https://i.imgur.com/39ojro5.png

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you are so so pretty

I do see what you (and others) mean about the nose

Maybe I'm just boring but I can barely see the update on my character lol so I don't feel very strongly about it exactly either way so far lol maybe it'll be a bit more noticeable in game
https://i.imgur.com/bFPqcTz.jpeg

Female Lalafell Face #4 has a subtle line in the middle when you wear the nose smudge :(


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...81fe8b7229eb4&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...307b0e17b2d89&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5ca87c7ce4b36&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f684b92098a5d&

My lala just looks dead inside after. https://imgsli.com/MjU2MjAz



edit: Lighting seems to make a huge difference too....just look at the contrast between both eyes.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...fa751ece65ca7&

Heard some people say setting the gamma correction to 0 would help but my smudge still disappears whenever its in direct sunlight. Forgot to take a screenshot but its the boat scene at the beginning so its not the weird character creator lighting.

Give me back my eyelash please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Textures of eyelash caused the change of different shape of eyes:(
https://imgsli.com/MjU2MzQ3

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...06e04c51122a3&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6085a72bf2b7e&

Okay I actually did a side by side and my upper eye shape is different, my lips look bad, and my face looks like its inflating. Watching the actual benchmark, I didn't notice any of this so maybe I'll feel fine when its in game, but I really hope they fix the changes to more accurately reflect how our characters looked.
https://i.imgur.com/bjXWBN7.png

EDIT: the "inflating face" was just different FoV due to zoom levels, my bad

https://i.imgur.com/FSA59Kb.png

All things considered I think my Lala was the least scathed by the updates. She's a little bit more tan (which is BIZAAR CAUSE MY OTHER CHARACTERS GOT LIGHTER?) her smudge is intact (Unlike all my Hellsguards). Her eyebrows are darker now... and her already tiny lips are... GONE? They snatched her lips!!!

From what I've seen of the new Lalafell teeth too... I'm scared.

I hope they'll address the issues for the faces missing details for ya'll.

I'm honestly on the fence on if my main will be a Lalafell come DT- which hurts because I adore that little gremlin. I've made all of my glams and portraits, and house around the world as she sees it.

Her lip shape is gone, the new lalafell dolphin teeth are unsettling, eyelashes and eyeshapes seem to have been altered- there was a personality that was there but in the benchmark, is gone. It sounds stupid, but that's not the same lalafell in the benchmark. I look at my characters face all of the time so the changes to me are just changes and nerfs to uniqueness.
While I could just make her look different as a lala, it's noticeable the lack of differences between mouths and eye shapes.

Honestly, if at the least the dev team just updates the lip shapes to resemble an actual cleaned up version of the original, I'll take that as a win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pablomaldito

Popoto looks like popoto to me. I'm not seeing any problems with the nose smudge
https://i.imgur.com/t7YJgz1.png

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Too adorable :D

Before & after:

https://i.gyazo.com/504fdc216dd2b119...189a5b5523.jpg

Couple people have already pointed it out in this thread, but since this is important to me I'm going to repeat what others have said in hopes they will hear us.

The upper lip is practically gone in the after... Furthermore the lip color goes on very sharp and unnatural looking whereas it was more blended before.
The eyes also seem to have lost their mischievousness, they appear rounder and brighter now. I specifically chose this face though because the eyes were less cute and big.

I know lalas are so small that stuff like that is barely noticeable, but I'm just not even recognizing my girl anymore :'(

I feel super lucky I play a dunesfolk so the missing eye highlight issue isn't as obvious or uncanny on Ririzu as it is on the vast majority of characters. I would join everyone in posting before-and-afters but I the only reason I was even able to get a look in the first place is because my FC leader offered to plug her data into the benchmark (I play on PS4), so i only have the screenshots ae sent me

I posted this in the big graphics discussion thread, but I wanted to share it here as well, a direct red outline comparison of just how nerfed the lips are. This is for Mouth 3, aka the longest one.

https://i.imgur.com/A64FzEd.jpeg

I may fantasia to Mouth 2 just to give myself some semblance of an upper lip, but I'm not excited for how small that will make the rest of her mouth. :( I hope that this is a small enough change that it's fixable because I haven't seen a single person who actively prefers how thin they got.

Thank you for your hard work, but... Please... Just give us back the lalas upper lip. Please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UUUUUUUUUUU

Give me back my eyelash please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Textures of eyelash caused the change of different shape of eyes:(
https://imgsli.com/MjU2MzQ3

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...06e04c51122a3&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6085a72bf2b7e&

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by PipiaPia

I posted this in the big graphics discussion thread, but I wanted to share it here as well, a direct red outline comparison of just how nerfed the lips are. This is for Mouth 3, aka the longest one.

https://i.imgur.com/A64FzEd.jpeg

I may fantasia to Mouth 2 just to give myself some semblance of an upper lip, but I'm not excited for how small that will make the rest of her mouth. :( I hope that this is a small enough change that it's fixable because I haven't seen a single person who actively prefers how thin they got.

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These two points seem to be fairly common across most races, not just Lalas, which does give me hope that it will be looked at again. If these two points get fixed, my main issues with the new looks would be resolved, I think.

So I made a side by side too… and maybe what I notice is nitpicky, but I’ll add my thoughts. I was expecting textures and such to change, but not actual shapes.

Definitely missing an upper lip… I use mouth 2 and it used to have a pouty look to it that I like. The updated isn’t horrible, but it’s definitely different.

It also looks like the upper eyelids are either missing or pushed in… which has the effect of making the lashes not look as long even though I think those are mostly the same. The eyebrows were given a bit more of an arc. And the eye color appears a bit darker now, so I may go a shade lighter when Dawntrail starts. (Yes I looked at different lighting/angles.) I use eyes 4 and brows 1.

I actually like the updated nose (nose 5) and ears better. And I’m happy with the hair texture. Overall the update is fine, but I would like the lips back. Surely there was a way to update them without totally changing their shape? A lot of the other races had similar issues on certain faces.

https://i.imgur.com/ORnMmfi.jpeg

Saw this example posted on twitter...
Old vs New https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a753e40b734d8&
https://twitter.com/Mozu_Belias/stat...578052/photo/1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Forum_Username

Saw this example posted on twitter...
Old vs New https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a753e40b734d8&
https://twitter.com/Mozu_Belias/stat...578052/photo/1

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The teeth really are horrible. This is because they copy-pasted the new mouth designs across all races without considering the different head/skull shape of Lalafell.

The mouths really are uncanny now. The corners of the mouth themselves seem to be pointing up now, instead of down, which coupled with those teeth make it even worse...

I'm about to echo everyone else in this thread but I really do hope they'll give us back our upper lip and fix the teeth (at the very least). :\
I have also noticed the eyes look different now but I'm hoping that they'll retain their original brightness once Dawntrail releases and we get some proper lighting.

Am I the only one that likes the new teeth? Of course it looks weird from the unnatural angle everyone keeps using, but from regular angles I like that you can see the teeth curve now (pic from reddit).
https://i.imgur.com/KFYC3fn.jpeg
It feels like they have a normal mouth with hamster like cheeks now, instead of a giant gaping maw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moxximus

Am I the only one that likes the new teeth? Of course it looks weird from the unnatural angle everyone keeps using, but from regular angles I like that you can see the teeth curve now (pic from reddit).
https://i.imgur.com/KFYC3fn.jpeg
It feels like they have a normal mouth with hamster like cheeks now, instead of a giant gaping maw.

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It's more that the skull proportions are off now. For the most part we're used to the arc of the teeth extending somewhere underneath the eyes, now they stop between the eyes.

Comparison below (I used plastic anatomy training skulls as a comparison, but if you're squeamish to that kind of stuff, beware):

https://i.imgur.com/o31UU9A.png

Hmm, I can definitely see both sides with the anatomy being weird. However it doesn't really bother me since Lalas already break other anatomy principles, like their tiny closed lips not lining up with the eyes but then somehow stretching open to extremes during open mouth emotes. Are their necks even wide enough to realistically support their heads? They are very "chibi" and often chibi like anime characters break these kind of rules. I still think I prefer having the smaller teeth that are more visible, it feels overall cuter to me. But that's just my preference.

Literally my first thought with my dark skinned Lala after the bench , I just created this account to be able to reply to THIS thread, hopefully they will bring back the old nose settings I hate thinking my lala will have a constant runny nose :(
I loved how her hair being white makes the nose so subtle bUT IS THERE. I'm afraid they don't change it back because most people have light skinned lalafells and is not that noticeable on that one :( But I'm happy to see someone else posted about it.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...0n46YqwrXwaFWA

Going to provide some feedback incase they the devs are actually looking.

Dunesfolk face 4, eyes 3. The changes made the the eyes for my specific face, the changes made to the upper eye making it less black between the seam of the upper eyelid have changed how the overall face and expression look in general. Without the black on the upper eye, the eye looks way more rounded and cutesy. Unfortunately there are no other options I can pick from to prevent this. The image shows the eye in all available lighting types in in game character creator and benchmark.


https://i.imgur.com/Qkzv07Z.png


Not as big of a deal - I like the old eyelashes better.