FFXIV needs to stop accommodating Solo Players

Ugh, people. Especially FFXIV people, AND ESPECIALLY those who write on the forums!! I don't want to play with any of you!

Anyway, it is pretty funny seeing people who constantly demean the FFXIV community for being too casual or having a toxic positivity mindset or whatever seems to still want to play with each other lol!

I like being a lalafell =,(

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Originally Posted by fantasiaaddict

Everyone else here knows what I mean

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I promise you the devs won't know what you mean unless you are explicit because the people who translate for them don't always pick the best words if you don't word what you say very carefully. Even then, they will still probably translate it poorly so you do need to be much clearer about what you mean. Cake isn't just trying to be pedantic.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I promise you the devs won't know what you mean unless you are explicit because the people who translate for them don't always pick the best words if you don't word what you say very carefully. Even then, they will still probably translate it poorly so you do need to be much clearer about what you mean. Cake isn't just trying to be pedantic.

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I mean the thread is already derailing due to the lack of being explicit. But they wanna be stubborn so.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

I mean the thread is already derailing due to the lack of being explicit. But they wanna be stubborn so.

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I mean people discussing treatment of lallafel players on a thread about accomodating solo players has nothing do with the OP not being explicit in their wording

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean people discussing treatment of lallafel players on a thread about accomodating solo players has nothing do with the OP not being explicit in their wording

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It does because the person who said that wouldn't have had the basis to say it at all because the topic would have been "FFXIV needs to stop accommodating Single player features in an MMO"

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

It does because the person who said that wouldn't have had the basis to say it at all because the topic would have been "FFXIV needs to stop accommodating Single player features in an MMO"

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The original lala player would have made exactly the same point

“I don’t want them to stop accomodating single player features in an MMO because then I have to interact more with the community which treats lala’s like garbage”

There is no way you can specify the original intent of OP’s point to exclude that comment while still making the same point

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Out of curiosity, what would you suggest as a way to fix the subpar play? We've already had parsers suggested which people did not seem to like so I'm curious what other alternatives you had in mind.

Like, what could SE do to make people want to/force people to play better?

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Realistically, nothing. There's no real way to force people to be better, especially if they don't want to.

You could maybe have things hit harder/faster in 80+ normal content, which could push players to be better. But you can still have 1, even 2, player(s) in a dungeon be carried. And there will undoubtedly be howls of protest at making the base MSQ harder.

They could update the Hall of the Novice and introduce Halls of the Experienced/Advanced maybe? Something that shows some relevant/current concepts around higher gameplay. If they agree themselves on what is relevant and "correct".

We need to address the elephant in the room. Not all Lala players are solo players. Many of us play just as much group content as any other player. Our choice in avatar is meaningless. Please, stop assuming all Lala players are introverts. We aren't. I do group content all the time. Also, Lalafell characters represent the adults of their species. Stop attributing human characteristics on to an alien race! They are not human and do not have human biology. The assumptions and complains about Lalafell players (and that's assuming that's the only race play) say more about the complainer than the player. I have characters of several races.

Really wish I could just delete this thread.

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Originally Posted by fantasiaaddict

Really wish I could just delete this thread.

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Oh don't pretend you weren't looking for drama. You got exactly what you wanted.

been playing this game sence the start of arr and played in both group and solo content you punks don't pay my sub so don't bother to tell me to leave the game because i will tell you what to do with your selfs my payment gives me the right to play this game not you if you have a beef with the company go to them not the player base.

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Originally Posted by george357

been playing this game sence the start of arr and played in both group and solo content you punks don't pay my sub so don't bother to tell me to leave the game because i will tell you what to do with your selfs my payment gives me the right to play this game not you if you have a beef with the company go to them not the player base.

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Which part of the title implied they were attacking you directly rather than saying “square enix should stop accomodating solo players”

I have no personal beef with you, I still think square should accomodate solo players less, if anything it sounds like you have a problem with anyone implying that square shouldn’t bend to solo players

I am inclined to think that due to language barrier that's why he worded it as such. Even saw his post over the beastmaster thread and saying something about crying. Shrugs.

No, thanks. I had enough of forced content with idiots back in the day when I played Rappelz.

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Originally Posted by fantasiaaddict

Really wish I could just delete this thread.

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I'm confused. You obviously took the time to post this so I assume it matters to you. As other have said, this post is extremely vague by the title and will most likely either get botched through translation or ignored outright since theres no information other than you saying "You know what I mean."

No, we clearly all don't know what you mean.

So, perhaps elaborate and get the thread back on track? Otherwise I can't blame anyone for derailing it further when it looks like a bait thread.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

I agree it's a mmo go play one of the 14 other ff games if you can't work with other people.

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MMO only means, that there are more people online playing the game, not that we need to interact with said players. So tired of that same childish reply...grow up.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

MMO only means, that there are more people online playing the game, not that we need to interact with said players. So tired of that same childish reply...grow up.

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So you want a single player game with dynamic NPC’s then

Funny to call others childish when you have 14 other mainline FF’s and your response is basically “nuh uh I want this one”

MMO just means more than one person is playing. Before complaining about other players soloing maybe think of this. You go to do a quest then get put in a queue for it just to see it say average wait time 3 hours. How well do think that go over with players waiting who knows how long just to do one quest. This is what you're asking for by wanting no soloing in the game.

The point is that the MSQ is functionally irrelevant, it’s the content that’s actually designed to be done with other players that now seems to be more and more funneled into not needing other players

If you want to do the MSQ solo than AFK in limsa that’s fine, BUT the game shouldn’t also change the encounters to accomodate the trust AI, make the jobs fail proof so that nobody actually has to actually rely on anyone else in group content and then create almost all of the current expansions endgame content explicitly with the intention of it being soloable

EW has basically amounted to (on the casual side)
-trusts nuking old duties like sor khai
-IS
-EO
-variant

All of which benefit the solo player over the player who wants to play with others which is one of the unique draws of MMO’s

Are you kidding? I wish things were MORE soloable, given your skill and build. We have so much forced multiplayer content - things you literally cannot complete unless you have at least 1 other player. Some things you can't even enter without more than 1 player.

There would be so much more interesting challenge if we had real skill trees and could try our hand at soloing bosses and other content designed around parties\alliances.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

MMO just means more than one person on playing.

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"MMO" is more than that. The reason I care about other players being online at the same time as me is because I want to interact with them. If I want to hang out by myself and do my own thing, everyone else could be offline or replaced with NPCs.

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I could see how well that go over you go to do a MSQ then get put in a queue for others to join you for it. Pretty sure they lose a huge number of new players from it.

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Then I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule? :p

The more you want to force players together the more they will repel each other.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

So you want a single player game with dynamic NPC’s then

Funny to call others childish when you have 14 other mainline FF’s and your response is basically “nuh uh I want this one”

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Where in my comment did I say, that I didn't like to play with others ?
Pot calling kettle and all that.....

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

Where in my comment did I say, that I didn't like to play with others ?
Pot calling kettle and all that.....

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So you do like playing with other players but also interacting with said players (which you like doing) is also not a core tenant of MMO’s and shouldn’t be used as an argument why 14’s excessively solo focused experience is becoming a problem

I mean sure, weird stance to take but sure, I guess I assumed in the post because I kinda expect people’s stances to be logical

It's rather disingenuous that duty support and variant dungeon keep being brought up as examples of bad solo player content.

Both leave you the choice to play how you want. You can do MSQ dungeons with NPCs or with other players. You can do Variant dungeons solo or with a group. The choice is yours and now content should offer that choice instead of forcing one play style or the other the choice.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

So if mechanics like the second boss of sorm al or the last boss of sor khai can easily be done with trusts and nothing about the mechanic besides its marker is out of date why did they redo all the bosses rather than change the marker exactly when the dungeon was given trust support

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To streamline the dungeons and make things like visual triggers more recognizable and take out some mechs that may have been more obtuse or not telegraphed as well. As I've been running an alt through the modified dungeons, those are the things I've noticed the most that changed. And think about something like Zot. First boss of Zot is a lot more sophisicated than some things we saw in older dungeons that were changed, but while Zot's first boss has new visuals, the general pattern of the telegraphing is the same. Now new players have a much smoother segue mechanics-recognition-wise into the newer dungeons.

I disagree from that.

Signed: Solo Player.

Remove all solo choices, nuke them from orbit, YP already made the solo experience its called XVI.

Duty Support can stay. I use it if I want to apply what I learned from doing 30-60 mins dummy practice when learning a new job.

Can't wait to see how easier classes will be this coming expansion. I'm basically in my own little corner giggling reading all of this nonsense instead of skipping this thread.

This is the only popular MMO that I played. The other indie free P2W MMOs that I only spend half a year on before hopping to another....those have some form of solo content. I've never played WoW before. I'm willing to bet that despite certain things being locked behind multiplayer content that there's single player content there. I'm not sure what the problem is. Thread is confusing. What am I missing?

IDK what y'all are talking about, there is plenty of multiplayer stuff, but for someone who doesn't want a 90 minute Que they can do it alone and get it done. this game is pretty linear, you have do the entire story to get to next areas. if they are start forcing that one people they will just quit, just like every mmo for the 20 years. enjoy what you got or quit, because the majorty of players who plya like the current state.

If anything, FFXIV needs to do far more to accommodate solo players. Every required dungeon (including, for instance, the ones needed to unlock aether currents or beast tribes) and story trial should have solo support options. Relic weapons should never again be tied to massive field operations with dozens or hundreds of players.

I wouldn't have a problem playing with others if I didn't routinely encounter trashy idiots who ruin the experience for everyone else, but that's life. I do not want to get to the emotional crescendo of the story, invested in the characters and full of feels, and then load into the final trial between a blue frog named named after a character from a popular TV show and a shirtless male Roe in gold bunny tights and a neon rooster head. If that means that the normal version of a story trial has slightly less involved mechanics than it otherwise might have had, so be it.

Well tough break on tirals cause I remember Yoshi P saying that the final trial needs to be done by 8 players when people were asking if they would do more stuff like what they did with hydaelan.

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Originally Posted by Kakure

If anything, FFXIV needs to do far more to accommodate solo players. Every required dungeon (including, for instance, the ones needed to unlock aether currents or beast tribes) and story trial should have solo support options. Relic weapons should never again be tied to massive field operations with dozens or hundreds of players.

I wouldn't have a problem playing with others if I didn't routinely encounter trashy idiots who ruin the experience for everyone else, but that's life. I do not want to get to the emotional crescendo of the story, invested in the characters and full of feels, and then load into the final trial between a blue frog named named after a character from a popular TV show and a shirtless male Roe in gold bunny tights and a neon rooster head. If that means that the normal version of a story trial has slightly less involved mechanics than it otherwise might have had, so be it.

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Relic weapons are not even in the same dictionary as “required.” That is an optional trophy made to be earned.

It doesn't IMO.

But it isn't something that should be overly extensive to where it intrudes deeply on the multiplayer aspect (or to where it comes at the expense of). E.g., giving people the option of whether they consume story-related content solo or with other players I think is fine, as are most of the systems they have introduced.

But I do strongly think that Island Sanctuary was a step too far with it. -- It only really had the solo element of it. Sure, I could invite people to my island, but that's about it... If I want to help friends with their island; I can't.

Multiplayer should be a core focus of the game -- But it shouldn't be the only focus. It's an MMO, sure -- But how people consume the MMO, and how the interact with an MMO will differ greatly.

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Originally Posted by Kakure

If anything, FFXIV needs to do far more to accommodate solo players. Every required dungeon (including, for instance, the ones needed to unlock aether currents or beast tribes) and story trial should have solo support options. Relic weapons should never again be tied to massive field operations with dozens or hundreds of players.

I wouldn't have a problem playing with others if I didn't routinely encounter trashy idiots who ruin the experience for everyone else, but that's life. I do not want to get to the emotional crescendo of the story, invested in the characters and full of feels, and then load into the final trial between a blue frog named named after a character from a popular TV show and a shirtless male Roe in gold bunny tights and a neon rooster head. If that means that the normal version of a story trial has slightly less involved mechanics than it otherwise might have had, so be it.

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So let's have shallow gameplay so you can avoid other people's glams? Wow. Relics should *always* be some sort of a grind, and should never again be an easy, boring, antisocial tome farm. If you don't like exploration zones, then you don't have to do them.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

There is a decent mix in my opinion. I do like that they have offered a way to do dungeon content with NPC's but hope they don't go overboard. As long as they keep the community interaction in check (Which they have) then I think it works out for more group content. I never tried to do group content in WoW cause I heard the horror stories of what I might encounter. This game pretty much cured that so I do that content here and there with zero issues.

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I on the other hand want more trials available in duty support. I don't want to have to use df for *any* msq content unless I want to do so.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Multiplayer should be a core focus of the game -- But it shouldn't be the only focus. It's an MMO, sure -- But how people consume the MMO, and how the interact with an MMO will differ greatly.

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I think the way I'd put it is: If some piece of content is going to allow multiple players to participate at the same time, then that should come through clearly in its design. It's like the difference between Castrum Lacus Litore or Dalriada, and Endwalker's alliance raids. The former contain spots where people split up, talk to each other, and coordinate; the latter can be done by 24 headless chickens each marching to their own beat.

If that same piece of content is going to have a single-player version, then either the replacements for the players need to be Good Enough™ to do it as-is, or there needs to be a second, solo-oriented design. (Note: This isn't completely out of the realm of possibility, because the one 8-player trial doable with Duty Support starts the player out with a buff that isn't present when queueing with 7 other players.)

As a player that does most things solo, where possible, I couldn't care less about the complaining here, nor do I believe the people here even agree on the difference, if any, between 'an RPG that takes place in an MMO' vs a "MMO that happens to be a RPG'. OP doesn't even specify what SE's 'accommodating Solo Players' is... you bitching about duty support? trust system? island? solo house ownership? additional retainer services? etc etc. There is a very long list of features that are squarely not something other players can engage with, and thus 'solo content'.

Alternatively, you can stop pretending vague designators like "stop accommodating solo players" has a clear meaning and use them words to specifically identify what constitutes 'accommodating solo players' that you find objectionable, at which point genuine dialogue might begin. YoshiP has states that they are moving towards more multiplayer in Dawntrail, and as a person that mostly solo's what I can, that sounds just fine with me.

For my part, I play FF14 how I want, when I want, and there is nothing anyone else can do about that, so deal with it. I'm the Warrior of Light, you're the side character in my game =D