What if we just removed Tank invulns

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Originally Posted by Espon

I wouldn't be opposed to their removal, or at the very least making it they don't work on any attack that does more damage than your max HP.

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Which is just every tank buster ever created for higher difficulties. Probably better to just remove them at that point so at least they're not on your hotbar, taunting you, lol.

I think that it's nice that the invulns are all designed with the intention of making them unique, but having such massive differences in recast is a serious balance issue. There's a three minute difference between the shortest and the longest recast. That's unacceptable.

The solution to the issue raised by this thread is to simply increase the mitigation requirements for tanks such that you're forced to ration out your defensive kit. That means more frequent tankbusters (and cleaves). I think the reason why we tend not to see this is because tankbusters are usually a break for everyone else where nothing else happens, but they certainly could incorporate a tankbuster directly into every major mechanic if they wanted to.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

With respect, this is the kind of thing a movie villain would say.

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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The solution to the issue raised by this thread is to simply increase the mitigation requirements for tanks such that you're forced to ration out your defensive kit. That means more frequent tankbusters (and cleaves). I think the reason why we tend not to see this is because tankbusters are usually a break for everyone else where nothing else happens, but they certainly could incorporate a tankbuster directly into every major mechanic if they wanted to.

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Delta Attack in Deltascape v4.0 has a tankbuster at the same time as other mechanics which was fun.


I will never deny the emotional thrill of using a clutch invuln to help save or clear a fight. I've had a fair few myself.
Whilst Holmgang is indeed laughably overpowered, invulns are still readily abundant in most content imo.

What if the ability to invuln was a *shared* resource between the two tanks? So then if one tank dies, the remaining tank can still get through a tankbuster using the shared invuln resource if they are unlucky enough to be subject to one immediately, and it prevents groups from cheesing mechanics with invulns?
This also still keeps the invuln for regular content (dungeons, in the field, etc.).

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

I will never deny the emotional thrill of using a clutch invuln to help save or clear a fight. I've had a fair few myself.

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Yes, invuls are exactly for these situations, when one tank is dead for example and a shared tankbuster is comming, they provide you with enough time to rezz and recover the tank. But there are a few tankbusters here and there where your Invul doesn't work (P8 Savage gives you a dot that ticks for 200k if you invul it)

I think they can leave invulns alone... make some of these raids 1 tank only. And let the party figure out how to handle it. Back in the ARR days, there were plenty of raid instances where you could run 1 tank, 5 DPS back when the content was current and not trivialized with echo. Tanks had to plan out mitigation more. Healers would have to drop a heavy shield on you if you couldn't stack the proper mitigation yourself. It required communication.

While raids are difficult in the current iteration, they are also formulaic.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I think that it's nice that the invulns are all designed with the intention of making them unique, but having such massive differences in recast is a serious balance issue. There's a three minute difference between the shortest and the longest recast. That's unacceptable.

The solution to the issue raised by this thread is to simply increase the mitigation requirements for tanks such that you're forced to ration out your defensive kit. That means more frequent tankbusters (and cleaves). I think the reason why we tend not to see this is because tankbusters are usually a break for everyone else where nothing else happens, but they certainly could incorporate a tankbuster directly into every major mechanic if they wanted to.

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The cooldown is the only thing that matters on invulns.
I think they should just remove them all except maybe 1 for flavor and then give that one a 10+ minute cooldown.

Another thing I feel like they could do is nerf tank invulns, by increasing their cooldowns, but then buff 2 min mits by giving them bonus mit, and effects in the first few seconds like what they did with their spammable mits.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Another thing I feel like they could do is nerf tank invulns, by increasing their cooldowns, but then buff 2 min mits by giving them bonus mit, and effects in the first few seconds like what they did with their spammable mits.

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DRK does not have it on their spammable mit.

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

You can absolutely self-impose it, and I did self-impose it in Deltascape V4.0.

However, it still made me think it might be too much of a crutch. I want players to have to struggle more for their achievements. No more Lazy Lasers on P12S P1. Swap roles into positions for the beams like God intended.

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Your avatar looks awesome! :)

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Originally Posted by rawker

But you can self-impose it to not use invulns when you tank.. Why must everyone else be dragged along?

In fact, you can simply remove it on your hotbar.

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The moment a tank takes your advice, you will be running to the forums! "I was healing last night, and the tank absolutely REFUSED to use mitigation! L2P!"

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Originally Posted by NYCLouisGamer

The moment a tank takes your advice, you will be running to the forums! "I was healing last night, and the tank absolutely REFUSED to use mitigation! L2P!"

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It was a response to OP who wants invulns removed. Quite frankly, I don't want invulns removed. If they want a challenge, then they can just remove said invulns from their hotbar. No point dragging the rest of the player base just because of it

That's basically what I did in P7S. I refused to invuln Condensed Aero IIs in early prog because I couldn't trust the pug co-tanks to not just let me die on the next one.
So I just did the fight without Holmgang...well, until the Harvest cheese came up.

I personally like invuln as they allow your group to decide which mechanic to make simplier. What I don't like is that boss do so little TB that you can invuln almost ALL TB.

For instance, in TOP, you can decide wether you take the risk of invulning the TB at the end of P1 (timing is a bit strict, can easily lead to a wipe), but you get a smooth positioning for everyone.
Or you pop CD regularly but then need to invuln the TB right after in P2 because it just hits so hard, that you can't have CD for both the P1 and P2.

The issue is that in regular instance and even most savages, boss don't do enough TB as they too often TB only one tank (altough this has clearly been changed in the past 2 tiers of savage so that's great)