Please balance casters in 7.0 or split role up

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

If you are basically unable to see them, there must be a reason. Maybe you should think about cleaning the mechanics that are causing you to die, maybe.

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Spoken like someone who has never done hardcore prog. Or even midcore for that matter.

Being able to see ahead is invaluable. It allows you to know what mitigation will be needed, whether healer oGCDs can be freely spent or to simply get ahead of the curve practicing additional mechanics all at once. DPS is very seldom needed because checks are usually forgiving, Abyssos notwithstanding. You also have to factor in BLM needing to know the whole fight before it can be truly successful, thus it's damage output for early progression won't be nearly as strong. There's a reason nearly every hardcore group runs RDM/SMN over BLM for week 1 progression.

I didn't think I was talking to a wfk.
Clearly if you are a person who CREATES strats because they compete for the first clear, being able to see more things to record and being able to create strategies is invaluable. If you are the classic player who follows the guide, your argument makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

I didn't think I was talking to a wfk.
Clearly if you are a person who CREATES strats because they compete for the first clear, being able to see more things to record and being able to create strategies is invaluable. If you are the classic player who follows the guide, your argument makes no sense.

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Not using a guide and approaching content without looking up all the answers isn't exclusive to world-first racers or week 1 players.

if you're not in a hurry, I don't see why it's so meta to have the third resser... It's not that important.
If a blm is not preferred over smn and rdm, it is certainly not for the ress in the vast majority. (also because if we look at the data at the beginning of each tier, the smn still reaches the highest share of use and its ress is still much, much lower than that of the rdm)

There's not much to argue. We all know that what you are doing is moving the problem of the disparity of the 3 caster classes. We all know that the problem is not the ress. We all know the problem with casters is the fact that there is one class that should be the norm in mmo and 2 classes that are made for Cymbal-banging monkeys.


This disparity was heavily accentuated with the smn rework.

How does one make a judgement about caster job difficulty with only SMN levelled? I would expect the starting point for such a determination would be playing all the jobs under comparison in raid content, at bare minimum.

I wonder how frequently the perceptions around BLM come down to anecdote and word of mouth. Longer cast times require a degree of anticipation and spreadsheet work, but sitting around waiting for your 'now loading' bar to fill also drastically drops your APM, which in turn drops the mechanical difficulty to turn-based RPG levels. I also think that BLM comes with a better set of movement tools overall than RDM.

It's not like there could possibly be an element of developer bias driving BLM to be given special treatment amongst casters, oh no. It must be because it's a super high skill job which is denied the super special privilege (read: not forcibly delegated) to assist the healers with raise duty.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

How does one make a judgement about caster job difficulty with only SMN levelled?.

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

I'm going to be rude, I don't even care, I doubt I'll be touching this game for much longer given how pathetic this game is becoming also this acc is an alt.

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lol, luckily I wrote it.
Please do not cherry pick, At least read the posts that led to these comments.
And you'll say to me "then show up" and I'll say "No, I don't think I will".

Can you take me for a troll? I'm fine with it, but is what I'm writing wrong?
I do not think. I'm clearly telling the truth, which may be annoying, but that's how it is.

Do you give ress to the blm? Even if it doesn't make sense? You want to homogenize it like it's been done for everything because you're here crying: WhY nOt Me???
Okay, now tell me honestly: do you think anything will change?
Be intellectually honest please.

Unfortunately, if the BLM are mistreated it is for the simple fact that they make a bad impression when prog. Unfortunately, the fact that the BLM has to do its homework and not like new SMN and RDM who look at the plan and they already know everything. Often the average player doesn't do them, pretending to do it directly in the field, but with a class like the BLM, it falls pretty badly.

I challenge you in any other mmorpg to try not to do your homework in high level content. You probably get banned from the guild and shit-stormed in your local community. (This is an appeal: if you want to start doing high level content, also in pf, for the everyone sake, commit yourself and demand commitment from others, the important thing is not to make fun of anyone, in any case you play with 7 other people who are also dedicating time to you)

Furthermore, I played in various statics and coincidentally they always complained that they would never take a blm again for the prog and first clear, because often hinted them runs.

People are simple: if there is a shortcut available legally, they take it (sometimes even illegally lol).
Statics, but also PFs, prefer to have someone who is consistent right away and... do 1+1, the most obvious choice is the smn and the rdm, but not for ress.

If rdm and smn had the same complexity in having to do their homework like blm, this revulsion against the blm would not exist at all, because they would all be first ladies.

Currently the blm is the only class that either makes sacrifices for the sake of the party, or the party has to stay at its "comfortable". The widely used strats, as the blm competes with embarassing classes, are never meant for him. Never. Because objectively it doesn't even make sense to waste too much time thinking about strats that the other 2 may very well not do.

Indeed, call me nostradamus, if the smn remains like this, if the rdm remains like this and the pictomancer will be a reskinned smn (I can already see it crystal clear), we will have that the pictomancer without ress will be the most used followed by the smn.

So yes, there really is a balancing problem in casters. And it is highly ridiculous. But not because of the ress, which is like looking at the finger instead of the moon, but because of an absurdly large imbalance in the complexity and things to take into account of the jobs. Moreover, with the advent of the smn, which is a phys ranged in disguise, the gap is even more ridiculous.

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Also do you mean to tell me that RDM is complex??? It was a joke back in Stormblood days and it's still a joke. Of course, if we compare it to the shit they released such as smn, then rdm is a complex class.
Then, hey, in this expansion it objectively had some difficulties in long movement, but like blm and old smn in the expansions before in other ways.
It is characteristic of caster class.

That sure is a lot of words being typed, but not a lot being said.

yeah, You're right. I wanted to put on the plate all that the blm is suffering because of poor balance.

tldr: Ress is not the casters problem. The problem is imbalance in complexity.

Solution: Bring smn and rdm closer to the complexity level of blm.

Considerations: we will have players who will have to commit in a similar way in the high-level content and there will be no preferences

additional considerations: adding the ress to the blm is just a stupid easy way to make it gain appeal. (can it be done? Yes, ofc. As we added the same single button buffs and the same mitigations to everyone) But until the actual cause of the imbalance is resolved, that the blm is the only caster class worthy of being called such, nothing will ever change.

If you're running with a reclear static on a second character for lockout purposes, they're unlikely to take issue with your job preferences as long as you are competent with your chosen job. If you're in progression, it is preferable for a caster to be skilled and raid ready on both BLM and a Raise-capable caster of their choice. If you hit a genuine dps wall, having access to a raise no longer matters because deaths become too costly. I think people are forgetting this because of how soft the last tier was.

While everyone likes having the extra raise in their party, I don't think that many people want to be the one to bring it. You're sacrificing dps to correct someone else's mistake. Then the game devs punish you further by capping your dps output for having access to that Raise in the first place. It's a double punishment. If I was going into Dawntrail as a caster, I would be strongly advocating for the responsibility to be dumped onto another role, like Physical Ranged (MCH Defibrillator and DNC Danse Macabre when). But I don't think they want it either, they're at enough of an unfair dps penalty as it is.

I think the arguments around Raise are a very poor justification for creating a dps imbalance within the caster subrole, and I think this mindset needs to change. Likewise, if 'complexity' is going to be cited by a lot of players as the primary reason for the imbalance, my suspicion is that this will sooner result in a BLM rework than a SMN/RDM one. Complex gameplay should be a reward in itself, and using it as leverage to try to gain a dps advantage over other jobs in your category will likely bring you more grief than joy.

You get rid of the raise or you share it.

That's the end solution.

Same as it's been for the past 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I think the arguments around Raise are a very poor justification for creating a dps imbalance within the caster subrole, and I think this mindset needs to change

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And I agree. But this is just speculation by people who ultimately ignore the data.

The smn in shb produced the same dps output as the blm, identical, the min/max was won by the blm, sure, but we are talking about very few points. (like mnk and drg now for example) Before the nerf, the smn was also much more powerful than the blm.
In stormblood, same.
If the rdm was not at the levels of smn and blm, it is for the simple fact that it was more of a phys ranged with less stuff to think (something veiledly said by the designers several times, but not too veiled either).

And I also agree that if the blm received a further damage boost, however on balance, its appeal, if not in speed-runs, remains unchanged.
Unlike the smn which practically presses a single button without even considering its position because it has practically guaranteed uptime like a phys ranged, and therefore he must exclusively think about doing mechanics, the blm has to earn these things. And a static prefer the smn which doesn't bother anyone, but also the PFs (since they can afford it), compared to a blm who has to refine everything and make mistakes during the fight, not just for the mechanics itself.

And the sooner this thing is digested by everyone, the better it will be for the game.

The fake do-goodism that exists is carcinogenic for the entire class.

Wanting to homogenize everything at all costs in the hope that something will change, having a sop, is never the solution.

If the melee are very similar to each other in dps, it is for the simple fact, that if they are different from each other while preserving their fantasy, that they are complex in the same way for better or worse.