Please remove MSQ dungeons from Mentor roulette

They should just do away with the mentor roulette. They don't need any help with how easy duties is now.

OP's issue was way more wholesome than I thought it'd be. I wish there were some kind of EX roulette for people like him. Maybe they could call it "The Hot Zone" or something, and it'd only pop for EX/Savage queues, lol. Similarly, I'd love an "in progress" roulette that's just for people like me who enjoy entering a total shitshow that others have given up on. When I see the roulette pop and it says "43m in progress" I get really really happy and excited, lol.

In my perfect world, they'd nuke the entire mentor system from orbit and then rebuild it without any incentives at all. I write a LOT here about how you sorta need incentives to push enough people to do things, and I do think that's true for like... group content in game where you need a lot of people to be on board or it just won't be viable content for anyone. But when it comes to mentoring people in a game, I think this is an area where the ideal people for this would just want to do it for its own sake. There're so many people who're just butthurt af when they get an actual trial and not a guildhest, because all they want is that ugly ass mount. Their mind's on the reward and not on the purpose for the roulette. Or they just want the crown but they don't want to actually act right when they get it. To hell with 'em. Remove the crown, remove the mount and just put it in the gold saucer or something stupid, rebuild the roulette and call it a Wild Card roulette where literally anything in the game can pop, and then just let it ride. Meanwhile, people who just want to join DF runs of EX content should get a roulette for spicy content, even if the queue is dead as hell.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

They should just do away with the mentor roulette. They don't need any help with how easy duties is now.

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It's not about the difficulty. It never was. It was always about filling duties and it was one of the best things they every put in the game. I most certainly do not want to go back to 30+ minute dps queues during prime time again like it was back in ARR/HW. Getting instances filled as fast as possible is the best thing for everyone.

Just remove the rewards and we are sorted. Once you put rewards in people think they are entitled to decided what they want the roulette to be. If people don't like getting the instance they got then they should just leave. It's really simple.

People whining over nothing.

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Originally Posted by Asako

It's not about the difficulty. It never was. It was always about filling duties and it was one of the best things they every put in the game. I most certainly do not want to go back to 30+ minute dps queues during prime time again like it was back in ARR/HW. Getting instances filled as fast as possible is the best thing for everyone.

Just remove the rewards and we are sorted. Once you put rewards in people think they are entitled to decided what they want the roulette to be. If people don't like getting the instance they got then they should just leave. It's really simple.

People whining over nothing.

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As much as people want mentors to do things out of the goodness of their hearts, do you really think people would do 2000 ques for nothing?

better idea,revamp the whole damn MSQ roulette not add or change dungeons...

and let us skip cutscenes,like ....i fully truly dont get the idea behind Non-skippable cutscenes in the first place

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Originally Posted by keichirou

better idea,revamp the whole damn MSQ roulette not add or change dungeons...

and let us skip cutscenes,like ....i fully truly dont get the idea behind Non-skippable cutscenes in the first place

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The cutscenes in Castrum/Praetorium used to be skippable.

It led to people bullying those who watched the cutscenes or clearing the whole dungeon before people could finish seeing half the cutscenes.

So SE made them unskippable. It’s that simple.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Veil

The cutscenes in Castrum/Praetorium used to be skippable.

It led to people bullying those who watched the cutscenes or clearing the whole dungeon before people could finish seeing half the cutscenes.

So SE made them unskippable. It’s that simple.

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I'd ask (never force), but I remember in 2.0, darklight gear (which was end game back then, people called it trash can / bag armor :3), we (3-4 of us) could lock up everyone else all the way to the very end. Not half, but wall to wall pulls- you never left a cutscene XD.

At the end it just said "Directed by Hideo Kojima".

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Originally Posted by keichirou

better idea,revamp the whole damn MSQ roulette not add or change dungeons...

and let us skip cutscenes,like ....i fully truly dont get the idea behind Non-skippable cutscenes in the first place

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As others have said, cutscenes are unskippable for a reason. People should learn to just relax. When I get Prae, I just pop something on my other monitor to read or watch or find another side activity (even worked on my taxes in the previous version of Prae).

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Originally Posted by hynaku

They should just do away with the mentor roulette. They don't need any help with how easy duties is now.

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You don't seem to understand the main objective of mentor roulette which is about filling any DF that needs filling.

When we queue for mentor roulette, we accept to be dispatched whereever a body is needed irrespective of the experience of the person who queued. Sometimes even more than one mentor is sent to the same duty. It’s there so players who queue for a duty don’t end up waiting forever. If people have time to do things such as an ex with new players, or something like Copied Factory or Thaleia MSQ, there is time for MSQ too. Is it exiting? No but many other things aren’t. I got 10 Guildhests in a row the other day (there was another mentor too) as 2 people were doing their weekly challenge log and we just happened to be the next two warm bodies. It felt like being trapped in the Groundhog Day movie. Normally, Mentor roulette gives me a wide array of duties and that’s why I like it. It’s be nice if it could reward the daily tomes for the normal roulettes if you do a corresponding duty (like if you get an AR, you get AR roulette tomes if you haven’t done it already but it’s not such a big deal). I get Prae not even 2% of the time with mentor roulette

The teaching part in mentor roulette is pretty much limited to extremes if they pop. Other than that it’s occasionally mentioning to do jobs quests when there is no job crystal at a certain level or explaining that the big orange marker is a stack marker and pretty much any other player can explain that too just as well. It’s not the place nor the time to talk about rotations. Guidance is mostly outside roulettes and it is mostly basic questions like where can I find or get something.

As for new players queuing for ARR extremes, the way the quests are introduced makes them feel seamless and natural progression. Once Titan hard which is part of MSQ has been completed, there is yet another duty with a blue marker to pick up at the Waking Sands and it happens to be Garuda ex. The same goes for other ARR extremes. It just feels normal to pick them up (I run alts and that’s the perception I get every time) and nothing warns of the major step up in difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

As much as people want mentors to do things out of the goodness of their hearts, do you really think people would do 2000 ques for nothing?

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The people who are actually doing DR:Mentor to help people will do it even without a reward. I got Astrope years ago and I'll still run it 20 times a day if I don't get thrown in a DR:MSQ duty. The moment you put me in a DR:MSQ duty I'm leaving to do something else.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Let's address your points.

1: Sprouts should be able to queue for whatever they want to queue for regardless if it's the norm or not.
2: Mentors must previously clear all content before the roulette is opened to them. You have cleared the fight and thus have a general understanding of whats going on. No one is expecting you to know everything.
3: Whilst it's true more people queue as DPS on mentor there are still plenty of us Tank healer Mentors out there to make up for it. Regardless, I'd rather have an experienced player on DPS than on Tank as most Tanking in this game is stand still and hit boss. I've never in all my time doing mentor roulettes had as issue with who was or was not a Tank / Healer. Some are better than others, but as long as they are willing to read chat then it's not issue.
4: Using Food or Potions is not required in any content outside of Ultimate and first few week Savage. Extreme is no where near that level, also due to the numbers crunch and ilvl scaling you massively outdps all Extremes up until at least Shinryu. For ARR and HW you absolutely nuke the trials to the point you can tell new players to focus more on mechanics than damage because it doesn't matter.
5: Whether people leave or not literally doesn't matter, once you are in you are in, the game will try and fill in progress parties faster so just getting in is a massive boon. As for the teaching part, just make some guides online if you want to be a teacher, when you apply to be a mentor it tells you there and then that you are there to back fill and do so in a positive manner. No where does it say you have to be always teaching players all the boss mechanics. That's just what you implied when you put on the crown.

If anything they should just remove all rewards to do with Mentor so we don't have to listen to people complain because they got something they didn't want as it takes too long all while they blame it on not being what they signed up for.

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1. That's a nice dream and all, but come HW they're forced to adapt to the norm.
2. You just said mentors undersize the Extremes. If so, they wouldn't have a basic understanding of the fights after all.
3. IDK what role mentors queue as the most, I just know tank/healer mentors didn't get sent to Extremes as often. As was pointed out, Ramuh is miserable for new tanks, and healers most of all need to not die in any of these fights.
4. Food is absolutely used in Extremes, even older synced ones (see BLU achievements), and throughout current Savage tiers and BLU Savage. It would be foolish to sacrifice such easy free HP and damage when there are still looming damage checks and plenty of ways to screw up. If we're not even concerned about how older Extremes are tuned, then it diminishes the need of doing them synced.
5. There's also the fact that the crown is automatically turned on, which is treated like a giant reticle. If they did remove the rewards, then MSQ/Extremes/Guildhests would have to go with them.

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Originally Posted by Bole

F2P players don’t have access to PF. We get an occasional sprout who wants to do the extreme synced, but no one in NN is willing to help. I always just advise them to queue and let the mentors complain.

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Occasionally after a time out one of the mentors would start a party and invite the trial players, since that's the only alternative. Can't say how prevalent that is though.

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Originally Posted by Asako

If you love helping people then help by filling stuff that needs done. That's your job as mentor. It always has been. I'm not sure where you got this mentality that you actively need to be helping people with mechanics. All you need to do is show up and do your job. If you feel your time is being wasted by helping people then you're not really as selfless as you think.

Help comes in many forms. If you plan on sticking with mentor roulette then get used to Main Scenario. There's plenty more to come. Be thankful it's no longer the 40 minute version.

If you really want to help people and not care about the reward, then just open duty finder and look for any instance with a number that isn't 0 and queue for it. You can even pick what instance you help people with.

That being said, looking at your attitude on these forums I don't think I'd even want you in my party as a mentor. Terrible attitude to have.

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So much wrong in all of this. There is no world where it is acceptable or good for Mentors to be in MSQ roulette "filling slots." Period. That's not open to debate, that's not open to discussion, that's basic common sense and facts. Those two instances are outliers above and beyond any and all other content in the game by an extremely large margin. Stop failing to understand that basic fact and lowering the quality of the overton window significantly.

My attitude is one of common sense, goodness and righteousness with an intolerance to evil, degeneracy and wrong. I love having mentors like me in my party because it means I do well, provide sound advice when invited for it, and do everything in my power to give you a good time in the game in however you like to play within reason. I don't just rage quit because it's a random Extreme trial or MSQ Dungeon because I have honor and integrity. But that doesn't mean MSQ Dungeons should be in Mentor roulette. I can't help someone watch cutscenes, and that prevents me from helping others who actually need my help. Again, have basic common sense. I shouldn't have to explain this to you in 2024. Anyone who disagrees or thinks otherwise is incapable of honest healthy discussion and is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

So much wrong in all of this. There is no world where it is acceptable or good for Mentors to be in MSQ roulette "filling slots." Period. That's not open to debate, that's not open to discussion, that's basic common sense and facts. Those two instances are outliers above and beyond any and all other content in the game by an extremely large margin. Stop failing to understand that basic fact and lowering the quality of the overton window significantly.

My attitude is one of common sense, goodness and righteousness with an intolerance to evil, degeneracy and wrong. I love having mentors like me in my party because it means I do well, provide sound advice when invited for it, and do everything in my power to give you a good time in the game in however you like to play within reason. I don't just rage quit because it's a random Extreme trial or MSQ Dungeon because I have honor and integrity. But that doesn't mean MSQ Dungeons should be in Mentor roulette. I can't help someone watch cutscenes, and that prevents me from helping others who actually need my help. Again, have basic common sense. I shouldn't have to explain this to you in 2024. Anyone who disagrees or thinks otherwise is incapable of honest healthy discussion and is invalid.

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See when you applied to be a mentor, there was a little chat that came up before hand explaining that filling slots is exactly what mentor roulette is. How is it wrong when the game spells it out for you before you even accept.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

So much wrong in all of this. There is no world where it is acceptable or good for Mentors to be in MSQ roulette "filling slots." Period. That's not open to debate, that's not open to discussion, that's basic common sense and facts. Those two instances are outliers above and beyond any and all other content in the game by an extremely large margin. Stop failing to understand that basic fact and lowering the quality of the overton window significantly.

My attitude is one of common sense, goodness and righteousness with an intolerance to evil, degeneracy and wrong. I love having mentors like me in my party because it means I do well, provide sound advice when invited for it, and do everything in my power to give you a good time in the game in however you like to play within reason. I don't just rage quit because it's a random Extreme trial or MSQ Dungeon because I have honor and integrity. But that doesn't mean MSQ Dungeons should be in Mentor roulette. I can't help someone watch cutscenes, and that prevents me from helping others who actually need my help. Again, have basic common sense. I shouldn't have to explain this to you in 2024. Anyone who disagrees or thinks otherwise is incapable of honest healthy discussion and is invalid.

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Yet you still fail to understand what mentor roulette is: a basic global roulette filler. You think too highly of yourself for bearing the crown while you are just one more body to fill a group at least 95% of the time…and lol you don’t complain about Guildhests or other braindead duties. There is not a single iota of basic common sense in your post, only a lack of understanding of the goal of the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

Yet you still fail to understand what mentor roulette is: a basic global roulette filler. You think too highly of yourself for bearing the crown…and lol you don’t complain about Guildhests or other braindead duties.

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I also can't get over his ego. That's the best part. What a hero.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

Anyone who disagrees or thinks otherwise is incapable of honest healthy discussion and is invalid.

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You are only proving yourself as this. You are defending your arguments with logical fallacies and show a massive ego along with it.

I'm curious to what he wants in his Mentor Roulette as he wants to help people. Let's look at the content available:

Guildhests: Can all be done blind without assistance from others required.
Dungeons: Can all be done blind without assistance from others required.
Trials: Can all be done blind without assistance from others required.
24 Man Raids: [I believe this can only proc in progress, in my 4000 roulettes I've never got one as a fresh spawn] : Can be done blind, perhaps a few deaths but mechanically simple and requires no assistance.
8 Man Raids: Can be done blind, again expect a few deaths or wipes on later ones but again mechanically not hard.
Extreme Trials: Some can be done blind, expect a lot of wipes and perhaps a few time outs in group. Usually requires assistance.

Most mechanics in the above instances are all telegraphed in the main story and executed by NPC's in instances and trust. They went back and added markers [tells] to these attacks to make them consistant with endgame.

So pretty much if you feel your time is wasted helping people in easy content that must mean you don't want any content outside of Extreme Trials as it's the only content in the game not really feasable blind for most players. If you do want Guildhests / Dungeons / Normal Trials / Normal Raids then you're a hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by Asako

24 Man Raids: [I believe this can only proc in progress, in my 4000 roulettes I've never got one as a fresh spawn] : Can be done blind, perhaps a few deaths but mechanically simple and requires no assistance.

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They can pop. Got a few, mostly as dps I think (maybe heals too, not sure).

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Originally Posted by Rongway

The people who are actually doing DR:Mentor to help people will do it even without a reward. I got Astrope years ago and I'll still run it 20 times a day if I don't get thrown in a DR:MSQ duty. The moment you put me in a DR:MSQ duty I'm leaving to do something else.

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Good for you, you can't expect many other people to do that though. Which is the entire point. The mentor roulette functions as a successful backfill only because of the amount of people using it. It has very little to do with the quality of the mentor and more to do with "is someone available at all". This is an MMO and players within it are more often then not motivated by rewards. The biggest complaint about Varient/Criterion was the lack of good rewards. Despite the reputation mentors have for leaving when something hard shows up, there's still plenty more who are willing to do that content who will follow. I think it's foolish to expect a significant number of players to be willing to do that without some kind of reward for their efforts. Maybe a few mentors would do a handful of roulette each day, but it's just a big numbers game. The big reward requires 2000 successful completions. Even for a mentor that only wants the mount, by the time they finish their 2k, there will likely be another person signing up to replace them just due to the time it takes to reach that number.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

They can pop. Got a few, mostly as dps I think (maybe heals too, not sure).

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That's crazy that I've been doing it for so long and never got a single fresh spawn. It's usually a 0 minute elaspsed when people dip out of them for me.