Thanks! I'm glad we have your permission to continue advocating for quality voice actors not hired off of Fiverr.
They haven't gone into a lot of detail yet but Wuk Lamat explained that since Tural is such a diverse area that making alliances is part of proving that you're a good leader. They're encouraged to go find outside help with the competition. So it doesn't sound like anyone is being installed anywhere. It sounds like we and probably fellow Scions are participating in an event important to that culture in expected roles outsiders are supposed to fill.
There's something different about this though. The vitriol over this has seemed on another level.
I can't understand it, either. People say it's amateur, but that's intentional. SE literally told us Wuk is young and naive but will become wiser. Why will she become wiser? Because she is trying to be the leader and leaders need to be wise.
It also just feels so much like a female version of Runar or Magnus. I didn't see any complaints about them doing virtually the same sort of accent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCie2IebTIU
https://youtu.be/WkYaEi_6ul4?t=195
https://youtu.be/rLY09dObyHA?t=98
Actually, this was directly addressed in the story. We made the point that we need more information and that this was all happening too fast.
So we go hunting together and what we find out is that if one of the competitors wins the contest, they will try to wage war with Eorzea and the rest of the eastern continents. That directly affects us. It's the domain that we have spent our life defending. To me, that is what justified us going.
But then we also discovered that Krile's forefather had received a letter at some point, requesting that they investigate the city of gold and what it really is, something they can no longer do because the Isle of Val was swept away and they ultimately didn't live to address the contents of the letter. That is also quite a good reason.
So we ended up with two good reasons and just needed to consult with everyone to make sure they are in agreement that we are going.
Idk, the VA seems to not have a consistent accent. I play with JP VA so its not a big deal to me.
The difference between you and me is I can actually speak to my issues with the writing and voice nstead of
"WAHhhhhhHHhhh"
which is what you offer.
The likelihood of a whole performance or all dialogue being poor are very very low. People like OP who claim this "it's just all bad I hate it" aren't giving any reasonable person anything to work with aside from uncanny claims, which are totally nonsense.
I feel like I already wrote my issues with each of these things in my original post, but I guess I wasn't clear. I'll go over each point and my problems with it again.
I didn't think going hunting together one (1) time was a good way to make me feel like this new character was worth helping or was even a trustworthy person. This is the sort of work that takes longer imo and it felt like they wanted us to like her, in a really short period of time, so they used hunting as a way to shoehorn the idea that Wuk is trustworthy instead of warming us up to her in a more organic way. Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, in the feast scene after the hunt, the competitor Wuk is at odds with is said to be eyeing Garlemald since it's weak and without a real leader at the moment, and Garlemald is a region that I honestly don't care about at all. I'd go rewatch the scene to confirm that they're trying to hit up Garlemald and not, like, New Gridania or something, but I'm at work and can't log in.
An interesting bit here, is when Wuk examines Krile's letter and she straight up says it looks forged as hell. The language is different, and the seal is the kind they wouldn't even use in her country. She only acknowledges that it might have been a dictated letter when she notices how put out Krile seems at the prospect of her letter being inauthentic. So to me, a letter that looks more like a fake (or even a trap) than an actual invitation, isn't a good reason either.
I completely disagree.
The initial threads and comments were all pretty openly transphobic, but got moderated pretty quickly for once. So most of the complaining now kinda reads like people who want to complain about one specific thing but don't want to get banned for it so they have to come up with other exaggerated negative opinions to compensate. Maybe there are some people with legitimate complaints, but it's pretty hard to take any of them in earnest now.
This thread and the feedback on X make me realize how many people have a hard time separating VA and character. Wuk Lamat is a genki tomboy who likes food - not very original but absolutely not annoying. At least that's what she is in the original Japanese. Now a lot of people just hear the frankly annoying and subpar voice performance in English and dismiss the entire character. Similarly, you read a lot of support for the performance with arguments like "the character is fun; I like her personality; I like how she does x", which all has little to do with the voice acting or works despite of the VA.
I agree, so it is not because of her that I want to go. It is because of the potential threat to Eorzea, the place I've spent 4 expansions and ARR defending. If she is lying about something, I'm sure it will become clear soon enough.
My understanding is rather that they want to replace the Garlean Empire as a force that invades and rules places like Othard, Ala Mhigo, Castrum Meridianum, etc. They wouldn't have considered facing a mighty, technological empire like that, but without the Garleans around, the primitive Eorzeans probably seem like easy pickings.Quote:
the competitor Wuk is at odds with is said to be eyeing Garlemald
In a way, that gives us more reason to investigate. Someone wrote that letter and if it wasn't Gulool Ja Ja but has their approval, it suggests someone from Eorzea, who resides in the New World, thinks that it needs investigating as well. If it were just idle curiosity, they would probably be like Erenville and not involve anyone else, but this person or Gulool Ja Ja must think there is something sinister going on with the city of gold and want an expert to investigate it.Quote:
a letter that looks more like a fake (or even a trap) than an actual invitation, isn't a good reason either.
ill hold any real opinions about her untill i have more about her outside of one (1) series of quests before her showtime is even up
I agree with your take that the patch is rushed. In terms of narrative, it would have been better to leave the actual commitment to the cause in 7.0. I don't think anything would have been lost by leaving this patch with us ambivalent about the contest but still determined to go to Tural and consider it. This is a minor change but would go toward making the narrative feel more natural. But tbh it isn't just this element to me that feels unnatural, it's also many of the interactions and weird callbacks to 6.0 like they happened ages ago. The writing in general for this patch left me wanting.
That said I feel like your analysis of the letter is off. It seemed to me that the initials were real, but the rest was written by a translator. I think the writers are trying to make you wonder who the translator was vs implying the letter was fake.
See, the second point you made is a fair one, but one that would've felt naturally integrated into the story if (like I mentioned earlier) we'd had prior escalated dealings with this opposing group in the past. If it was apparent from prior dealings that yeah, these guys are escalating, so no, they aren't just going to occupy a territory and then stop, then yeah, I'd totally feel justified in interfering with another nation's conflicts since this could easily become a me-problem soon. But as it stands, I don't even know these other people and I just have Wuk's word to go off of, who I guess I trust because we hunted together and she seems nice, so now we're intervening in another nation's conflicts, tipping scales, and screwing over a contest for 3 other tribes. I'm just not sold on it. And honestly the fact that there's room for uncertainty is good and would make this an engaging introduction to DT, except the dialogue options barely allow you to express genuine dissent at all. At best, there's a line (iirc) where you ask if the area's existence is just a rumor and that's it.
As for the letter being a possible forgery and that being -more- of a reason to go and not less... to me, that's just a big fat NOPE. If someone writes me a letter like "hey avoidy, come on down to Texas I've got something to show you" and it's signed some dude I know, but it turns out there's a big fat chance that letter was forged, I'm not gonna be like "wow I guess I have an even bigger reason to head on down there" like hell no lol. It wouldn't warrant further investigation for me, or for anyone who's not looking to get ganked. None of this would. Your reasons are fine, but the stuff you said about it being from an Eorzean in the new world is one really optimistic possibility; it could just as easily be someone in the new world who simply wanted to lure Krile's relative out there to get robbed, tortured for info, and then blown out in the middle of nowhere.
Basically I would've been happier with the lead-in if we'd started seeing escalating conflict from Wuk's adversarial tribe much earlier in the post-EW storyline so that anything she's saying would feel like "yeah, that tracks with what we've been seeing too," OR failing that, at LEAST give me the dialogue options to be like "I don't even know these people, why should I trust what you have to say about them" or any kind of skepticism at all. Legit for all we know, Wuk's group is the one that's thirsty for war and she's just playing us. This possibility is vaguely raised once, like you mentioned earlier, but then ironically the way we're supposed to trust her comes from a violent bloodsport. So the reason we shouldn't suspect Wuk of actually being -from- the bloodthirsty warmongerers she claims to hate, is because, get ready now, she proposed a bloodthirsty hunt and then spent every minute of it salivating at the thought of killing shit and eating it. Like... I'm not saying the story is bad for making me doubt her, but I am saying we should've had a lot more room (dialogue options) TO be allowed to doubt, and if the writers didn't want people like me to think Wuk is hella suspicious and that none of this warranted our meddling, then they should've introduced her sooner, introduced her adversaries sooner, etc. etc.
NGL the more I toss this back and forth in my head, the happier I am that there's room to have this skepticism and debate. I actually hope this issue gets raised in DT because I could see it creating ideological differences among the main characters. Urianger in particular, seems too thoughtful and considerate to brazenly rush into an international conflict because the new girl on the block pointed their resident loaded gun (WoL) at some other people. I just dislike this sort of thing in RPGs in general I guess, when something's popping up kinda obvious red flags and you have to watch your character just roll with it to set up the conflict. It'd be like watching our character (who's been drugged with drinks multiple times) take a sip out of a glass that's been left out for hours and then smile while doing it. Dialogue options have let us be really vicious to Alisaie in the past; I don't see why there wasn't a really basic, polite, "You seem nice, but I don't care about your foreign tribal spats" option at any point.
I know I'm completely unable to take seriously anybody who's complaining. I felt Sena did a great job with the voice and after that first thread I can't help but think the people who are constantly complaining are just hateful people who know they aren't allowed to complain about what they WANT to complain about.
I don't know how someone can like or dislike a character that barely exists.
Funnily enough when the trailer shows the character in question for first time, very little actually spoke negatives about her even when her voice was heard.
It's only after her VA actress was revealed then everything went ape$h!t.
Totally not a coincidence. Yep... :rolleyes:
I would have preferred the build up to span more patches, but I just try to make the most of however SE tells a story and meet them half way if I can, because they aren't going to tell it 100% the way I want.
But, to me, I was able to meet them half way and they caught me half way by integrating the rushed nature of the build up into the story itself, by acknowledging it's all happening too fast and then giving me a good reason to go off of.
As for whether we would investigate a rumor, you know, if you've done every quest in the game, you've been asked to investigate rumors without much to go on a million times, sometimes to find literal animal droppings. No job is too big, or too small, too informed or uninformed (usually the latter), in WoL lore. :D
Applying the same question to other quests, why should we do almost any side quest? Why should a busy WoL go to the South Sea Isles because a talking animal said we should? Why should we help the Namazu avoid a calamity that they are imagining and isn't going to happen in reality? Why should we believe all these legendary fish can be caught (that I for sure can't bring myself to fight RNG for to complete the quest)?
The answer tends to be that we are willing to risk wasting our time in case they are telling the truth.
I wish the dialogue options were better as well, but I find any game with dialogue options doesn't always have the one I want, even ones that allow disagreement more regularly.Quote:
the dialogue options barely allow you to express genuine dissent at all.
What I have had to do with this game since the beginning is to come up with my own dialogue in my head if, say, I'm skeptical or want to make sure that, in my head, my character has mentioned things. Sometimes SE do give you room to do that by having a scene where your mouth moves lots without any dialogue as well.
The VA is pretty bad and the fake accent only make it worse, either pick an actual central/south american instead of a white american pretending to be one or don't do accents at all, when did this meme even start anyway? SHB? Ishgardians in HW didn't have a French accent, in SB Ala Mhigans didn't have a German accent, Domans and Hingashi didn't have a Japanese accent, well most didn't, only Yugiri and Gosetsu kinda did, Yoysuyu and Asahi certainly didn't.
Yes, it's like they are making a fake accent that doesn't exist.
A fake accent in a fictional world. Hmmm.
Seeing all these smurf accounts inexplicably pop up, shill a particular VA, and adamantly claim the moderators will defend them is even weirder.
They're called first impressions.
You mean after it was identified what character said that line?
Is that why one of you tagged "lala of course" in the other thread? At least all the Titanmen alts weren't Au Ra.
The commentary on the consistency of the accent are interesting to me. Actual Puerto Rican women do not have a monolithic type of accent when speaking English, it varies quite widely just as with any culture. Secondly, it's not clear what type of embellishments may be occurring as a result of this being a "Tural" voice, in the same way that Varshan wasn't a 1:1 real world accent. Not only did he sound slightly adapted, but also consider these actors are saying the usual XIV shakespeak, which isn't something a regular person speaks all the time. Finally, we dont (or at least i don't) know what Sena's base voice is. I am not sure if they grew up in different locations (which can result in some weird, semi affected accents). Between all these factors, I'm not sure what people are expecting in terms of consistency. I think they were going for a Tural sounding character and that it was effective.
For the record, Sena has flags for PR and Germany on her Twitter, which is what I'm basing my thoughts on.
You mean they are making a fake accent for a fake world that's still recognizable enough? If it was a native kentuckian just pretending to sound Spanish it wouldn't work like that. Also, when people say they drop into an "American accent". It in no way resembles what someone from Kentucky would sound like.
I swear this is like people thinking all brits sound the same...
Listen I pushed back against another KY generalization else where, I'll do it here. We actually have a fairly diverse state that straddles several geocultural bounds, people from Kentucky don't sound any one particular way. Appalachia and Pennyroyal are about as different as they are physically distant, and people from all over make their homes here. The horse farms draw a lot of Hispanic and Latin American immigration in particular.
Like is this the worst case of the generalizing absolutely not, but I don't think there's anything helpful about speaking in these absolutes. There's no one way a Kentuckian sounds, just like there's no one way a woman can sound
Have we confirmed this? I initially thought this as well but it isn't clear if Sena is from America and as I said already. Yes, their skin tone is white but that doesn't tell us about her parents or where she grew up. She may live in the US right now but she's also apparently 37. Does anyone have any actual footage of Sena??? Otherwise not only are we invoking imaginary standards of consistency but also you don't even know Sena's real voice..
Bro, you guys are literally talking about how diverse a white guy born and raised in the middle of the USA who currently lives in California is and how that may imply he's "diverse" whatever and why it's not some -ist or -ism or some such for him to make inconsistent fake accents in a $40 video game with a subscription. What's wrong with y'all ? The acting sucks, his acting is the worst offender but the whole EN dub sucks overall, it always sucked. Start sending emails to SE to either have a proper discussion with the current cast and fix it or recast every role.
She's of Puerto Rican descent. Just because she's a Kentucky native doesn't mean her parents are. They use the "white woman from Kentucky as a way to demean her and say she's not fit for her role. Most of these people saying that aren't from the states, hence why I said they probably don't even know what that sounds like. I wasn't trying to take it any further than that lol.
Her profile lists Spanish as a language she speaks in a limited working fashion. Maybe she didn't use it often, who knows. It doesn't mean she's faking it.
And yeah, I'm terrible at transcribing my thoughts into words, it's been a longtime problem of mine.
We don't know she's supposed to sound like. All we know at this point is that the various tribes of Tural were unified under a Mamool Ja leader 80 years ago and that individual adopted Wuk among others (her brother is Miqo'te). Then you have the Tural language, which was evidently pieced together from the various languages that had been used by the tribes in the past. Seems likely that those who live in Tural would have some crazy variety and twists in their accents as a result.
If you want to assume everyone in Tural is supposed to sound alike then we need to question why she doesn't sound like Erenville. Or why she doesn't sound like the male Hrothgar that have had VAs so far since she's a Hrothgar.
First impressions may have an impact but that doesn't mean that we can't step back and wait for more before passing judgment.